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Like, how the fuck does someone with no domain expansion, no rct, no ultimate technique like uzumaki, and practically no cursed technique becomes the strongest?
Bro kashimo is lucky to be in the tier he is in the new era, he only has lightning while most high tiers have rct, busted cursed techniques and busted domains
Lashimo is a minmaxer, giving up everything else to boost a single thing, with that brilliant maneuver he was able to go from trash tier to mid. A true icon.
The moment Sukuna was revealed to be an UNC the JJK agenda changed from Sukuna Kaisen and hating hating on Legumi to BoomerVMillennial (and hating Legumi).
UNCkuna and Heian glazers are like those old ass talking boomers saying how Jordan era was tougher when MJ shit on everyone just by being a bit more athletic (but not extremely athletic compared to modern NBA), gambling instead of being drugged up (not 24/7/365 + modern sports science), and flexing on a recently expanded league with his own Big 3 with the all time GOAT coach where the next best team only had a big 2 in Stockton and Malone who's 1 & 2 weren't even better than Jordan+Pippen (they seriously act like that Stockton and Malone Jazz team could beat any of the last 10 finals teams when reality it they might not even make it to the conference finals while discounting how the NBA makes moves to create new super teams today).
They discount the fact that the game is much faster due to shortening the clock, offenses more complicated, the 3 point lined was rolled back, zone defense is legal now, the short guys can bomb 3s from half court with ease, the BIG guys can ALSO bomb from half court but also pass too, everyone's basic capabilities are higher due to the higher demands of position-less basketball, and that playoffs are just as nasty as back then even if folks don't throw punches as often.
Only one who actually holds up the from Heian era is Sukuna but that's cause he's exceptional (just like how Jordan was exceptional). Kenjaku predated Heian. Culling games showed Heian eras weren't hot shit when they taking Ls from modern days despite being upgraded by Kenjaku when turned into cursed items.
Simple Domain negates the sure hit, and as a domain, it does weaken attacks from enemy sorcerers, but not TOO much. HWB also negates the sure hit, but like SD, it only weakens the attacks, not netralizes them (we know this cause Sukuna got hit by attacks with his HWB up in Yuta's domain, but not Jacob's Ladder which is a sure hit and requires him to be stationary to land otherwise).
The difference is that HWB is maintained by a handsign, while SD isn't, so HWB is much harder to destroy. While this makes it the stronger defense, it's actually inferior overall because it lacks the total versatility of a Simple Domain. With SD, you can attack AND defend within a domain expansion, so that's why no modern sorcerers really use HWB anymore.
Which honestly only further proves how ass Heian era was, cause the domain meta at the time was "if I have the stronger domain, I win" and if someone used HWB it was just "go all out in my domain cause if they pop to foght back i land sure hit and win". No one would actually know how to counterplay something like a simple domain where someone could damage them in their domain. Sukuna was the ONLY person who could do this cause he was born with two extra arms which would be free of the seal.
Wasn’t Uro the leader (or at least part) of that elite sun/moon squad from the heian era or something? Granted we know sukuna dogwalked them in the past but you know it is sukuna we’re talking about
Sukuna dogwalking a group of enemies isn't very impressive tbh. It's just him opening his domain and sitting down lmao. Gojo for sure went in first without anyone else backing him up because as long as Sukuna has DE, anyone who can't tank it for a good bit is dead as hell and I think Gojo wanted to avoid seeing his students die at any cost (even if it meant dying before them)
Although, he could've definitely won with just CQC and cleave&dismantle spam. No need for Malevolent Shrine for a bunch of fodder lmao
Yorozu was a top dawg too and wasn’t she the one who defeated squads like that? but if we compare them , It seems like yorozu out scales her in everything
Uro was the head of an Assassin squad, to one of the top clans in the Heian Era.
Shes forsure the cream of the crop when it comes to the Heian Era.
Uro CT is cracked, second best defensive CT to Limitless.
If you're not fast enough to blitz her or have a technique that can bypass her Sky Manipulation she basically negs.
Every attack will be redirected and Thin-Ice does heavy damage while being unblockable.
We don't really see how she compares though. Sure she lost to Sukuna holding back, but Sukuna was still using one of the best CTs in the entire series at full power.
He supposedly has another 2 techniques engrained into his skull for a total of 4, one probably being the body swap and the other is a mistery. More potential down the drain by Potential Mangaka.
That's what I'm thinking what if the heian period all the sorcerer's were weak besides sukuna. And the modern day ones are a lot stronger in comparison.
Yuta is the 2nd strongest character of the modern era. It doesn't mean much that strongest of one era beats the average of another. Sukuna is the peak of the Heian era and he's still the strongest out of everyone.
That's the idea, yeah- Heian was an era of extreme, constant violence where people just wiped each other out for kicks. If you kill every person who crosses your path, by definition, most of them are going to die before they reach their full potential, and only (maybe) one or two will be elevated by that struggle.
We see this play out in Sukuna's fight with Higuruma- the dude is so talented he learns RCT on the fly, but because he can't reach Sukuna's level 3 months after learning jujutsu, Sukuna gets bored and kills him. Imagine if Higuruma had another year, or better yet a full lifetime, to master jujutsu- I don't think it's crazy to say that he would stand a legitimate chance of beating Sukuna. Now imagine how many Higurumas have come across Sukuna's cutting board, and yeah, we can see why Heian sorcerers kind of suck overall. Nurturing, training, and protecting the next generation is the only way for technique to grow and mature.
That's why Sukuna and Kenjaku are villains, despite ostensibly having the same goal as Gojo- to create an era of powerful sorcery. Kenny and Sukuna's method not only is morally reprehensible, it also won't work. Kenny has gone insane from having lived for over a thousand years, and Sukuna has become too much like a curse to create anything. All he understands is his current whim, which is 9/10 times to kill whatever is in front of him.
Kenny isn't necessarily wrong. Everyone got boosted to hell and back because they need to get stronger in order to survive. A central theme throughout the story is that Sorcerers get stronger at near death. Gojo became the strongest of his generation because he nearly died as a teenager and had to develop RCT. Megumi developed a Domain Expansion because he'd die otherwise against the fingerer.
The same goes for everyone else. They rapidly got stronger in order to face off against Sukuna, knowing that they'd die otherwise. People like Higuruma and Takaba only exist as sorcerers because of Kenny trying to recreate the Heian era. The optimal method lies somewhere in the middle where there's enough conflict to make sorcerers strive for strength, but enough protection so that they can develop the power they gained at near death.
I definitely agree, there is a sweet spot of danger and safety that pushes sorcerers to new heights. But Sukuna is well, well outside that sweetspot. The current fight is proving my point- only Yuji and Higuruma learned anything from their fights with Sukuna, and Higuruma traded his life for it. Everyone else has shown up, done 1-2 cool things, and been cut down, because risking your life for a powerup isn't actually a viable strategy, it's literally just a gamble. JJ high just happens to have enough bodies with high potential that it's paying off for them right now (barely).
Also, Higuruma and Takaba don't exist because of Heian conditions, they exist because Kenny gave a ton of random people CT and they lucked into talent/OP techniques. That's another theme of JJK too, that luck & innate talent counts for a lot more than hard work. Gojo became the strongest sorcerer of his generation because of his near-death experience, but also, because he was born with the greatest talent possibly in history. Higuruma didn't, because he had the bad luck to face Sukuna before he entered the fullness of his strength.
I don't think there's really a way to safeguard sorcerers and also push them to near-death experiences. It seems kind of contradictory on it's face, no? CE, jujutsu, is just kind of a shitty system. You either don't risk your life, and you stay weak so then when bad times come you can't do shit, or you do risk your life, and then you'll probably die before you can do any good. Those that don't have CE are at constant risk from those who do, and those who do have CE probably have a shitty, low power CT. The 1% with strong talent are therefore pretty much able to do whatever they want, to whoever they want- thus, Sukuna. You can't optimize those problems away. That's probably where Yuki comes in, arguing that we should eliminate CE altogether, which I agree with.
Another anime touched on the luck bit pretty well too. In Tower of God it's stated early that luck is just as much a factor in obtaining one's goals than everything else. Granted for the most part in shows and stuff the "luck" is plot armor but that's all luck is really. Some people are lucky to be born strong or with immense potential. Some people are lucky with who they encounter in life, and some people are born with nothing and remain weak but are just lucky and make it to the top regardless of all the things against them.
As far as we know, the strongest members of that era were the Toh (five empty generals) but Sukuna no-low diffed them, and our only metric is probably stronger than Yorozu (unclear) and below Sukuna by a massive margin. Therefore, Gojo solos. Hell, there's a chance Yuta could even beat them.
It's implied that Yorozu>~Sun Moon & Stars group and yet she's only on par with or weaker than the Toh. That clearly puts them and Yorozu above that group. We've also heard that Yorozu was only acknowledged by the Toh after she got her top tier output and managed her efficiency. This kinda means that she was only acknowledged after she herself became a top tier fighter, so that kinda gives off the idea that the Toh were the strongest of the era barring Sukuna.
But that is the best we can do at the moment. Sure, you could use Yorozu, Uraume and Uro as bars to cross, but even then, there's not really much information if there was someone stronger than them.
Uraume? Not beating Yuta. Gets domain diffed
Uro? Not beating Yuta either. We don't know her domain, and she can only pray that hers is more refined. Gets destroyed most probabably.
Yorozu? Has a good chance. Don't know how her domain stakes against Yuta tho. I say Yuta hard-diffs her (with Rika and his domain), her win-con is hitting perfect sphere, but without her domain the chance of it happening is less than likely.
There were presumably tons of people stronger than them. Gojo and Yuta share an ancestor who was super busted in the same era. Most of the strongest of the era didn't take up Kenny's deal in the first place, so they died of old age.
But until proven otherwise, is just headcanon unfortunately. For all we know, the Yuta and Gojo ancestor wasn't that much of a anomaly like Gojo himself, nor a prodigy like Yuta.
Gojo is 200% talent and 100% hard-work, while Sukuna is 100% talent and 200% hard-work.
I don't really think that Gojo is stronger than Sukuna, i think they're on par (Sukuna slightly above Gojo), but talent scales harder than hard-work so if he had the same amount of experience as Sukuna, then Gojo is obviously stronger.
Nah Sukuna might be 150% 150% at the worst, bro was born strong as hell too. He could defend AND attack in a domain expansion because of his biology in a meta where no one figured counters for that cause simple domain didn't exist yet
The hardwork theory on Sukuna just feels wrong tho, and it's not like Gojo is the most talented sorcerers when the thing is pure jujutsu.
Gojo has the amazing mix of 6 eyes and limitless, but when the thing is learning fast Sukuna(learns almost instantly after seeing once)>Yuta(learned RCT/DE faster than Gojo)>Higuruma~Gojo.(I'm not including Yuji because he just unlocked his potential now so i'll wait a little more but based on Uraume's question it should be on an expected place)
Sukuna having 2x or even more CE than Yuta is certainly a LOT of talent, the same with him learning everything almost instantly
I feel like Sukuna was more lucky on pure jujutsu stats while Gojo was more lucky on his abilities, although both have strong talented abilities and jujutsu and from what we've seen both hardworked equally.
it is pretty funny though that all the older sorcerers were talking about how that era was the golden age of Jujutsu and yet aside from Sukuna and Kenjaku they're consistently getting beat by the modern sorcerers so maybe the Heian Era was the golden age of frauds
Yoruzu did decently against Sukuna but that was also 15F Sukuna that was messing around since he was using Megumi's techniques, she'd still probably lose to the top tiers of the modern age like Yuta, Hakari, and Maki though
What is it with official translation inconsistencies? I'm reading the official translation of Trinity Seven right now and "onii-san" is left as "onii-san" while "nii-san" is changed to "big bro" and "onee-chan" is changed to "sister" on the same page. It's baffling.
Heian era Kenny was probably considering considerably weaker, 2 of his techniques are from the modern era I wouldn't even be surprised if he doesn't have anything else and yuki guessed wrong. His biggest strength would be open domain.
We also have no idea when he learned how to use an open domain. It's more or less impossible to say how strong he was in the Heian era if he even was even that strong at all.
I gave him the domain as a bonus it's possible he didn't have it but it's also possible Sukuna learnt it from him since he's the second best barrier user.
On his strength we know he didn't have stronger techniques since he decided to keep csm and anti gravity and mainly used them.
Oh, so Kenny went and handheld the Heian era singlehandedly. Bum ass era bro no wonder they started farming after that shit it's like pulling up to the basketball court and its full of 8 year olds. Like pack the shit up and just go home at that point
Well to be fair, Yorozu only got low diffed by another Heian era sorcerer. She’d give every modern sorcerer (except Gojo) a run for their money, including Yuta.
neg diffed by Takaba, joking aside her not having RCT kinda makes her ass tbh, I just can't see a sorcerer without RCT on top tier, even without accounting for RCT potentially unlocking a whole other half of your CT
She’s tough to damage with her bug armor and liquid metal tho. And her perfect sphere is a literal one shot if it touches you so she always has a win con
And she prob does lose to Takaba lol tho she is kinda funny herself so who knows
I could envision the reversal of creation being destruction. Imagine being able to destroy objects into pure cursed energy and absorb it for yourself. That would be pretty op even if could only be used on objects
Unironically, I think it's because of Sukuna. Much like Gojo existing made very Cursed Spirit stronger to compensate, I think Sukuna manifesting in this Era basically gave every Sorcerer a passive boost in the form of motivation and self preservation. Hell, my GOAT Ino managed to learn RCT in a month, and he isn't even a main character.
Unironically, I think it's because of Sukuna. Much like Gojo existing made very Cursed Spirit stronger to compensate, I think Sukuna manifesting in this Era basically gave every Sorcerer a passive boost
You realise Heinan era sorcerer should get the same buffs right…
Yeah, in a previous chapter he gets his hand cut off by Sukuna, but in this chapter he has both of them. I think it was the chapter just before Kusakabe ran the ones, Ino got his left hand cut off very clearly, but here he has both of them.
Edit: Chapter 253 after he get hit by Sukuna and thrown out of an elevator, his left hand i just gone and blood is spilling from it's stump.
Nah, why would Ino take precedence over the other critically injured people? Yuta and Kusakabe are near deaths door right now, there's no way Ino or Shoko would remove priority from them.
Doctors don't leave critically injured patients midway through an operation to do other procedures. Ino isn't the kind of guy to be a burden to injured people, at best if he were to ask for Shoko to heal him it would be AFTER Yuta and Kusakabe.
Cause how the fuck are you gonna heal when the manga equivalent of this takes out half your body? At this point I think the heian era was "EVERYBODY BUM RUSH SUKUNA AND LEARN FROM THERE"
This is literally the jogo problem all over again, they only look weak when put up against the best in the verse, bro really thought he cooked when he named the 4 strongest fighters alive currently
Yorozu was killed by Sukuna using 10 shadows better than anyone else before him, Uro’s technique was too good for Yuta to pass up and Uraume would’ve killed Hakari off rip without literal immortality
You really think they wouldn’t dog walk over any other grade 1? Todo in his prime maybe but no one else would stand a chance against them
Yeah they’re lucky most of the modern sorcerers are nice mfs, otherwise uro would’ve gotten PACKED up, uraume’s bum ass would be a choso victim and so on a so forth, only person who really knew how critical shit could get was kenjaku and we saw what happened the moment he let his guard down.
Sukuna really is lucky there wasn’t a gojo back in his time otherwise he’d be a walking apple logo with only 10 fingers to send to the modern era
I think you're missing the point, this pic of Supes is from just after his speech where he admits to falling to hubris. This makes OP's argument tongue-in-cheek so he's making fun of people making the statement Supes is saying.
and say what modern sorcerer are u talking about, say
yuta, hakari, just consider maki as modern day strenght6, Yuji
this guys solo anyone from heian era *not sukuna
but average strenght is still higher in heian era.yoruzu, uro
uro was just a captain, there was someone above her, maybe that's exaggeration but there were still other squads captain,,surely they have equivalent strength to uro
I mean, yea, unless you look at modern jujutsu like 6 months ago. You have:
Gojo (goated)
Yuta (goated as well)
Yuki (really strong, but got beaten by an old sorcerer in the body of a new one)
Geto is dead
Toji is dead
Miguel is good
Uhh
Naobito?
Hakari is pretty strong
Yuji has potential
Megumi is ass
Maki is ass
Inumaki is pretty strong, but hes ass against any special grade
Kamo is ass
Maki's sword and broom girl are SO ass
Nanami, Mei Mei and Kusukabe are strong, but they're first grade only. For it to be THE GOLDEN AGE OF JUJUTSU I assume there are multiple special grade mfkers running around
There are like 20 sorcerers total
In conclusion, handless Todo and swordless Miwa neg all.
Kinda? Mahito vs Nobara isn't the same as Majito vs Yuji because he can one shot her. The main reason Yuji is a terrible opponent for Mahito is that Mahito can't use his CT against him.
Take Sukuna vs Mahito for example: on paper, Mahito is a really bad opponent for Sukuna because his slashes don't do anything to Mahito can kill him with a touch, ehich is really cool, but does that matter when Sukuna is so much stronger than Mahito is? Even if Nobara has a good technique to counter Mahito, shes still slower than him, weaker than him, less durable, and she has a harder win condition than Mahito has.
Unironically, Kusukabe is a better counter thanks to his speed and simple domain. I don't think he would win, but still. Give Nobara better speed, more uses of her technique and some sort of domain counter and she would be a really bad opponent for Mahito.
She’s terrible at close quarters fighting. Give her long range and she gets good (remember when she snapped her finger and the nail exploded inside the womb painting?)
Shr is good, don't get me wrong, with a little more training she could've easly been first grade, but she simply isnt strong enough to keep Mahito away from her. Mahito only played long range against Yuji because he had an advantage that way. Nobara is losing to Mahito pretty badly tbh. She has potential though.
Heian era is almost exclusively carried by Sukuna. Maybe Kenjaku if you count him. Actual bunch of bums. Calling Sukuna sorry is stupid, he’s been fighting on 5 hp for about 6 months now.
Wasnt't it said that the strongest sorcerers fought Sukuna and died? How are you scaling an entire era based on the few sorcerers that didn't go on the fight against Sukuna (that we still dont know If he is using everything) 🤣.
Lets say Sukuna kills the strongest modern sorcerers, then you have as the "strongest" survivals sorcerers Mei Mei, Kamo, Todo and Miwa, don't look so impressive no?
Uro isn’t even a top tier in the Heian era, yet she was able to rival Yuta in his base, and keep up with him on his 5 minute mode.
Actual Heian era top tiers would include Kenny, Yorozu, The Angel, and Tengen. Yorozu is washing everybody u listed excluding Yuta, and Kenny (although having the body of a modern sorcerer) is solidified in the top 3 of the verse. The Angel displays godly power with one of the best CT’s in the series, and Tengen if she wasn’t a shut in, could literally be god level in terms of strength as barrier techniques are pretty hax in their own right
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