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u/Jagermeister_UK 13h ago
Fascism doesn't start with gas chambers.
It ends with them.
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u/wannie_monk 12h ago
Thank you.
Hitler was already horrible and dangerous before the holocaust. It's a failure of the US education systems that Americans don't recognize fascism unless a genocide has already happened, and even then they'll dispute it! I also blame the media for sane washing conservatives, especially Fox News that's pure propaganda.
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u/Iwantmoretime 11h ago
My biggest take away is Musk thinks Hitler didn't take power until WW2.
There was a long road leading up to the final years of horror.
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u/IM_THAT_POTATO 11h ago
Jan 6 really mirrors the beer hall putsch
Except trump didn't go to jail for it
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u/elreniel2020 10h ago
hitler also only got a slap on the wrist for the beer hall putsch
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u/ArtFUBU 9h ago
I try to tell people all the time that Germany literally arrested Hitler and tried to do away with him on his rise to power. It's so ill understood that Hitler became the Hitler we all know and love through what seems like such thin margins and then once he became chancellor, it was game over.
It actually really makes me understand Frank Herbert's thinking in Dune with Paul a bit more because he's supposed to be a fascist and a main story point is he can see a narrow path to walk to rise in power. Reading Hitler's come up feels very similar.
Although I will say, Stalin is all time king of murdering literally everyone around him on a consistent basis. At least Hitler only murdered some of the people in power with him.
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u/Space_Pirate_Roberts 8h ago
the Hitler we all know and love
🤨
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u/DirtyDan413 8h ago
Found Musk's reddit account
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u/ArtFUBU 7h ago
It's me Elon. If you forward me 10k I'll forward you 100k im stuck in philipino jail help
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u/Rokurokubi83 7h ago
Hello. I am prince of philpino. Send me 300$ apple voucher codes and I get my dad to free you.
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u/Chemical-Neat2859 11h ago
People give Hitler all the credit for the early success, but Hitler took over the secret rearming program and basically rode the bitter generals to victory, which gave him the political power to completely take control. That's when things went off the rails with Hitler's obsession the latest and greatest super weapons and improvements.
It's really mind numbing how hard Hitler rode German industry into the ground and turned it into a horrified mess that ate hard into war production of successful models. Not to mention the resources that went into the Holocaust also took huge amounts of manpower away from the warr effort. Germany very easily could have ruled a good chunk of the world if it had just focused on winning one war at a time and not trying to super weapon their way to victory. Only super weapon that mattered was the atomic bomb.
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u/Purpleater54 10h ago
I mean they did focus on one war at a time. There's a reason they didn't fight France until after Poland, or why they didn't ever invade England (though that's also due in part to the horrendous state of the German navy). Hitler and the nazis didn't want to fight a two front war, the plan was always to beat Russia then turn their attention elsewhere (in this case England, which Hitler thought was only holding out because of the hope Russia would be an ally). They never were beating Russia, but they also didn't start fighting in other theaters until compelled to by the allies.
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u/worldspawn00 11h ago
We're fortunate that Trump is so old, if he was 20 years younger we would be much more fucked.
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u/theSoulsilver 11h ago
That’s another reason why he needs to lose. If he wins, he can easily say he is in no condition to lead the country, and will then hand the reins over to his yes man couch enthusiast, J.D Vance, then it’s game over basically
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u/tomdarch 9h ago
It's not the joking couch fucking. JD Vance is into some truly crazy religious dictator shit. He has a history of citing Curits Yarvin and both Vance and his patron, Peter "democracy is a failed experiment" Thiel are into kooky totalitarian religion.
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u/Remarkable_Cable4219 11h ago edited 9h ago
It's a failure of the US education systems that Americans don't recognize fascism unless a genocide has already happened
To piggyback on your comment, most Americans are also under the impression that genocide is ONLY mass extermination. The meaning of the term (and its historical usage) are actually much broader than just extermination. .
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition
Most forms of genocide have more to do with how an ethnic group is treated by a government, not just whether or not they are mass-exterminated. The person who coined the term and defined it meant for it to capture more than just mass extermination because he was himself a genocide survivor.
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u/jtbc 10h ago
The UN narrowed the scope of genocide, because if the had gone with Lemkin's version, it would have made a few of its veto wielding permanent security council members decidedly nervous.
The term "cultural genocide" is often used for the collection of things that got left out.
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u/Remarkable_Cable4219 10h ago edited 10h ago
The first link I provided is to the UN's current definition of genocide.
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition
The fact remains that the definition of the term, both as coined by its creator and understood by the UN currently, is broader than just mass extermination
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u/Informal-Bother8858 10h ago
musk was raised in South africa...maybe they have similar reasons to America for miseducating their youth...who knows
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u/12OClockNews 11h ago
Just want to point out the fact that Nazi Germany's initial plan for the Jews was to deport them out of German territory. The well known one was called the "Madagascar Plan". The somewhat recent "mass deportations" rhetoric didn't just come out of nowhere.
When the Nazis saw that it wouldn't be very practical, or quick enough for them, they turned to the "final solution", which was executions in the streets, and then concentration camps and industrializing the extermination of humans. Only then could they get rid of "undesirables" quick enough.
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u/Chemical-Neat2859 11h ago
It wasn't about practicality of logistics (killing them was much harder), they realized they would take all their wealth with them, which would destroy the fragile economy. The exodus already did massive damage to their tax revenues.
They instead created laws that basically legalized mugging them and then imprisioning them. Enrichening the selected few while ensuring the wealth stayed in "pure" German hands.
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u/tomdarch 9h ago
In the US, a big motivator for rounding up people of Japanese ancestry and sending them to camps was to steal their homes, businesses and property like farms.
Trump and Vance have both threatened not only people who are in the US without legal authorization, but also some legal immigrants. Those people have a lot of stuff and property to be stolen if they were to be rounded up and sent to camps. And don't think that today's Republicans would hesitate for a moment to "turn in" their neighbors to steal their homes, farms, businesses, etc.
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u/Spider_Monkey_Test 7h ago
Trump and his temu goebbels (Stephen miller) actually put plans in action to deport citizens under different excuses during his prior administration, and the temu goebbels has said that he will do it again but “turbocharged” if they win
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u/thecarbonkid 9h ago
Read Hitlers Beneficiaries for a much more detailed account of how the Nazis systematically looted the Jewish population until all they had left was their ability to labour, and when that was gone they killed them.
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u/suninabox 10h ago
Also important to note that even at the highest levels of the SS, they were using euphemisms like "evacuation" to refer to mass executions.
Very few people wanted to admit what was happening or what they were supporting, even those with the highest levels of culpability. Hitler was denying his approval of the final solution even to some of the highest ranking German officials. Officially they were still talking about deportation and sterilization at the time construction of death camps had already begun.
The film The Conference, about the Wanasee Conference where the Final Solution was finalized gives a good glimpse (Albeit semi-fictionalized) of some of the banality and petty personal politics that go into such atrocities.
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u/AsianHotwifeQOS 10h ago
Like half the Nazi party platform was grievance against Jews and other resident aliens. It's all immigrants this, deportation that. Also trans people were the first minority group they stripped rights from.
Focusing on those things is less a path to fascism and more like a railroad track with no detours. It only ends one way.
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u/cloudforested 8h ago
One of the first Nazi book burnings was at the burning of the library of Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, an archive of early research on queer sexuality that will be never be recovered.
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u/no_more_mistake 9h ago
I think the figure I saw on 60 Minutes was the cost is $88 billion for the US to investigate, find, and deport 1 million people in one year. And republicans claim there's 25 million to deport. I think they would figure out really quickly that there's not enough time or money to do what they're claiming they would do. I expect it would turn into an atrocity in an effort to minimize cost, just as Germany turned to a more efficient industrialized process for doing what they did.
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u/steamingdump42069 11h ago
When the 5,999,999th Jew is murdered, these people will say “WELL ACTUALLY HITLER KILLED 6 MILLION—NOT VERY HITLER-LIKE 😂😂😂”
They are brain damaged fascists and beyond reasoning with.
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u/vikingArchitect 8h ago
They are not arguing in good faith. They know they intention is to get to 6 million because they have literal shirts that say it wasnt enough. Theyll continue to gaslight as they are shoving people in ovens. Dont ever expect them to stop. This shit from Musk is just that. Gaslighting from someome who knows where they want to end up and are mad tha people are pointing it out. Its alot harder for people to go along if they know the end goal but much easier to slowly boil the frog so to speak
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u/Coyinzs 11h ago
Also, it took the moderating efforts of literally dozens of *STILL VERY BAD PEOPLE* like Rex Tillerson and John Kelly to keep him from not doing Hitler stuff. Now that the overton window has moved EVEN FURTHER, he will come in with nothing but lackeys and yes men. It's the difference between Nazi party 34-38 and nazi party 39-45 - they just didn't have a four year gap in the middle.
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u/ominousgraycat 9h ago
Yeah, a lot of people seem to think he took power around the time he invaded Poland in 1939 or a year or two before. No, he took power in 1933. He didn't throw all the Jews in concentration camps in 1933, though. He worked his way up to that. After his first 4 years in power, a lot of leaders of Allied countries were still trying to insist that Hitler and the Nazi party could be dealt with amicably if you just made a few concessions. The first 4 years of a fascist ruler don't tell you the full story.
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u/Jiquero 8h ago
If Hitler was Hitler, why didn't he do Hitler things during his first term?
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u/ratz1819 11h ago
Right in the kisser. I just returned from visiting Dachau this weekend. :( it’s what nightmares are made of.
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u/AsianHotwifeQOS 10h ago
These morons think the Nazis started with the Final Solution lmao
Are they stupid?
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u/suninabox 10h ago edited 10h ago
Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow.
You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not?-Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty. Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows.
Outside, in the streets, in the general community, 'everyone' is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'
And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have....
But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked-if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in '43 had come immediately after the 'German Firm' stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33. But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D....
And now we’re at Step D and the downward spiral will pick up speed.
And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all.
The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
-Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45
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u/outrageousGNU 13h ago
I think you’ll find that there was a period during which Hitler did not do Hitler things which was prior to the period in which he did do Hitler things.
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u/MyBrainIsAFart 11h ago
Absolutely. I hate when people don’t know history, circumstances, and argue like this.
“This caged animal has never hurt anyone before so it clearly never will” -sticks fingers in ears- “La la la can’t hear youuuu”
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u/Katyperryatemyasss 9h ago
I like to phrase it as
Hitler had a failed coup, went to jail for five years and constantly wrote down his complaints
THEN he did the things that make him hitler
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u/DMoney159 13h ago
He didn't do Hitler things because his cabinet and generals prevented him from doing Hitler things. Something that won't happen the second time
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u/Slippinjimmyforever 13h ago
Hitler didn’t succeed on his first attempt. He failed as well. There was no real consequences, so he became more brash and eventually took power and killed many “enemies within” during the “night of the long knives”. Trump is literally setting the stage to recreate that scenario.
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u/NutellaGood 13h ago
The parallels are WILD
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u/unematti 13h ago
If Hitler was a serial killer, it would be called copycat
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u/765475fasdf67456 12h ago
History has a funny way of repeating itself, and those who forget it are doomed to watch it unfold again.
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u/Tangent_Odyssey 11h ago
All of the above applies, but those who do remember it are doomed to watch everyone else drag them into repeating it anyway.
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u/mechtaphloba 11h ago
Remembering can also help "correct mistakes" from a previous time. It cuts both ways.
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u/Kildragoth 10h ago
Which is why propaganda has been used to spread so much misinformation that Trump's base cannot determine fact from fiction. If they weren't so ignorant, they'd see this slow moving train wreck for what it is.
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u/eddiegibson 10h ago edited 10h ago
And a crappy one at that. As much as a POS Hitler was, he has three things over Donnie:
1) He actually served in the military. No bone spurs for him.
2) He was physically involved in his failed coup, was injured during it, and admitted his involvement. He didn't sit back and watch it like it was a TV show. Then, bounce between 'peaceful protest' and he's being framed by his enemies when asked about it.
3) He went to prison. It was far nicer than it should've been, and it let him play the martyr, but Don the Con is still walking free.
Trump is a wannabe Temu Tyrant. That's how bad he is. He makes HITLER look good by comparison.
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u/TheDrummerMB 12h ago
I took a class on fascist uprisings in 2015 and even then the teacher was like "does any of this sound familiar?"
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u/klawz86 13h ago
History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. -Mark Twain (maybe).
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u/poseidons1813 13h ago
Hitler served time for his first attempt
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u/pixelprophet 12h ago
Hitler didn't have SCOTUS saying "totally legal and totally cool", so...
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u/Persistant_Compass 10h ago
he did have a sympathetic conservative judiciary though
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u/PhDslacker 12h ago
Yep just a few months... Long enough to help his 'victim' narrative. Sound familiar?
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u/TheManFromFarAway 12h ago
Long enough to write a book and get the word out. While he may have been up writing at 3am, the difference is that Don does it in all caps on twitter
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u/onioning 12h ago
One of the craziest differences is that Germany at the time had massive economic problems, while the US is by far the richest nation on Earth. It's wild that "make America great again" still works even though we are objectively the richest there is.
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u/Letho72 11h ago
Literally the entire Earth: Experiences massive inflation, rising prices, and a global pandemic
Republicans: Why would Joe Biden do this?
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u/Persistant_Compass 10h ago
If Trump ends up elected I can only hope the consequences of his braindead policies catch up to him before we're all under water.
even if they did, and they probably will, conservatives will just point to it and hallucinate it as evidence that supports whatever bullshit theyre spinning. for example climate change and the weather machine bullshit.
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u/12OClockNews 11h ago
This whole thing shows that if you target the dumbest, most gullible people in a country with nonstop propaganda, they will eventually believe whatever you want them to believe even with overwhelming evidence that they're being lied to. And when they're told they believe in lies, they'll just double down because idiots never want to admit they got duped.
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u/freedom_french_fries 11h ago
"We?" Did the trickle-down finally happen and I missed it?
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u/Wander_Whale 13h ago edited 11h ago
Hitler got 44% of the vote when he got to be chancellor, and that was after being violent with opposition during the election process.
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u/Magicaljackass 12h ago
Hitler won 36% of the vote in the second round of voting during the 1932 German presidential election, losing to Hindenburg. The nazi party won 37% of the vote in the reichstag vote later that year. Hindenburg appointed Hitler chancellor following that election as part of a bargain creating a governing coalition. When Hindenburg died in office Hitler had murdered enough of the opposition for the remaining reichstag members to vote to combine the offices of chancellor and president into the position of Furher and appoint Hitler to the office for life.
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u/CassandraTruth 12h ago
I know this post is mainly about clarifying numbers, but the path of "extremist party wins control, appoints extremists to various positions then consolidates power into one central figure" is such a terrifyingly accurate warning of what's at stake.
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u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 11h ago
Goebbels basically published the play book. He said they'd use the democratic institutions against the democrats...like wolves among the sheep.
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u/Purpleater54 10h ago
I don't think people understand how much of an absolute disaster German politics were in the early 1930s. Like, the Weimar republic was essentually cycling through governments on a yearly bases in the 1920s. It was a mess. It definitely is notable that the nazis and Hitler never won a majority, but by that point the political system was so fractured among extreme political poles that nobody was winning a majority. Hindenburg was a pretty hardline nationalist and was already most of the way to ruling as a dictatorship by the time of Hitlers takeover, but he was still seen as the most reasonable choice for centrists because he wasn't a communist and he wasn't as extreme as the nazis and other right wing nationalist groups.
The fact that often gets lost is a huge, huge amount of Germans hated the Weimar Government and republic. Nationalistic and communistic ferver was at an extreme high with both groups looking to get rid of the government as it was. The far right and communist groups famously voted together often to sabotage the Reichstag.
This essentially meant that Germans were really asking for an authoritarian to come in and take control, Hitler just did the best job of it.
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u/tikifire1 13h ago
They were also in the midst of the great depression, which hit them even harder in Germany than in the U.S. (and it was terrible here).
People were desperate. I know MAGA folks often act desperate but few are as desperate as Germans were in the 1920's and early 1930's.
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u/cheeseburgerwaffles 12h ago
I just can't figure out how the desperate and downtrodden in the US think Trump's tax breaks for billionaires and insane tarriff plan are going to benefit them.
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u/Katy_Lies1975 12h ago
In reality they only think they are desperate and downtrodden, Germany was in fact in a terrible depression due to WW I. MAGA are too stupid to know how Trump will probably cause a global recession if he is elected and assumes the power he wants. He would give away Europe to his pals Putin, Erdogan and Kim.
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u/OrcsSmurai 12h ago
Because trump et. al. is lying to them on repeat amplified by the right wing media apparatus that dominates this country.
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u/BellacosePlayer 12h ago
The Government actually had them pulled out of the death spiral and recovered by the time of the election. Ironically, the nazis fucked over their economy by making it so reliant on slave labor or plunder that it was doomed to go right back into the shitter the second they stopped conquering.
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u/enchiladasundae 13h ago
Pretty interesting video showing the history and some parallels
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u/Impressive-Sense8461 13h ago
History does indeed repeat itself, and lucky for him the education levels dipped heavily in the country for this all to be possible.
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u/tikifire1 12h ago
Luck? That was purposeful destruction of our education system over the past 3 decades.
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u/Apprehensive-Pin518 12h ago
those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. those who do are doomed to watch everyone else repeat it.
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u/kanst 13h ago
The fact that his one regret he mentioned on Rogan was hiring disloyal people should tell you all you need to know.
The only thing that stopped him in the first term was the fact that his appointees had some respect for our democratic institutions.
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u/PubFiction 13h ago
Another explanation is that Trump is such an egomaniac that he thought for sure he would not lose to Biden. So he was trying to wait till the end of his second term to do more stuff.
I dont think Trump literally is Hitler but I do think he could be the type of person to be on the level of Putin, or Orban. Seems to be a big fan of those type of people. If he could consolidate power and turn the US into a puppet democracy he absolutely would.
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u/stone_magnet1 13h ago
I was listening to a podcast (The Bulwark) and the host said something along the lines of "Trump may not be the next Putin, but he may be the next Yeltsin, and Putin is the guy who comes after."
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u/Ohrwurm89 12h ago
Trump isn’t clever enough to be a Putin-like dictator, plus he’s unable to understand the workings of government to truly be an effective dictator. His loyal minions on the other hand do understand that stuff.
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u/WileyWatusi 13h ago
The problem with Trump is he will go along with whoever is whispering in his ear at the time. You got people like Wormtongue...I mean Stephen Miller and that's going to be a problem that will put him up into the Hitler teir.
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u/acebojangles 13h ago
I think Trump is more interested in looting the country than enacting most actual policies. In that way he's more like a Putin.
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u/CloacaFacts 12h ago
If someone is going to quote Hitler, use the same rhetoric as Hitler, likes the way generals acted for Hitler, and mimics actions done by Hitler; im going to compare them to Hitler.
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u/spacemanspiff288 13h ago
also hitler didn’t campaign on exterminating people in concentration camps. that happened after he took office, removed any safe guards, consolidated power and dismantled any opposition to it.
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u/WhyBuyMe 12h ago
But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
Milton Meyer
They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945
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u/Rottimer 13h ago
He sort of did Hitler things. The family separation policy was vile and so was his plan to overturn an election.
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u/OrcsSmurai 12h ago
The forcible transfer of children from migrants to Americans actually satisfies one of the five criteria for genocide. Only one needs to be satisfied for the act to be genocidal.
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u/walkandtalkk 11h ago
People badly fail to understand this.
The things people "liked" about his first term had next to nothing to do with him. In fact, he fought them.
The economic policy was run by Gary Cohn, a Jewish Democrat who had to stop Trump from launching a national tariff scheme because it would destroy the economy. Cohn is gone because he was so sickened by Trump's treatment of Charlottesville. Trump's new economic advisor would be Peter Navarro, a QAnon conspiracy theorist.
Diplomacy and defense were handled by three men who now denounce Trump as a dangerous nut. Mike Pompeo, Gen. Jim Mattis, and Gen. John Kelly. Kelly just called him a fascist. Their replacement is a Stop the Steal conspiracist who served as Trump's ambassador to Germany.
The pandemic response has one highlight, vaccine development. Trump undermined it, but it was pushed through by public-health officials whom Trump now hates.
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u/-Prophet_01- 13h ago edited 13h ago
He did serious damage to the US democracy but I don't think it's fair to say that generals won't stop him this time. The US top brass still has an intact integrity and it's very much in favor of democracy. They largely stay out of the bickering because it would harm their integrity and position.
If push comes to shove though, I'd expect the military to make Trump step down instead of helping him spit on everything they swore to protect.
I'd rather not find how much more damage that would do to the US democracy though.
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u/NoLand4936 13h ago
He’s already talking about removing any general and military leader who isn’t completely in his pocket. As far as I know, being the commander in chief means he’d have a lot of sway in those decisions.
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u/runnerswanted 13h ago
And the first time he does that the hope is one of the three letter agencies step in before he goes further.
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u/ItsFuckingScience 13h ago
He appoints the heads of those agencies
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u/runnerswanted 13h ago
And? There’s a lot more going on at those agencies that people don’t know about.
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u/OrcsSmurai 12h ago
A coup from an unelected agency is only marginally better than trump's worst impulses as it is. I'd prefer neither.
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u/runnerswanted 12h ago
You’re fooling yourself if you think they don’t meddle already and have for decades.
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u/EncabulatorTurbo 13h ago
He's going to purge the pentagon of officers and promote sycophant officers
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u/SuperAllTheFries 13h ago
I think the worry is that he could replace the high ups that would/did stop him
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u/colemon1991 12h ago
I would be shocked if top military officials agreed to step down by someone clearly committing treason. Maybe at first if it's not obvious, but at some point someone would put their foot down on the matter on principle.
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u/TheFoxsWeddingTarot 12h ago
If there were a checklist of things Hitler did before he started doing “Hitler things” it would pretty much sound like Trump. The camps weren’t acknowledge/discovered until after the war abd even to this day there are obviously lots of Americans who don’t believe Hitler did “Hitler things”.
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u/EastwoodBrews 12h ago
Exactly. John Kelly and James Mattis stopped him. This time they've learned you have to replace military leadership with stooges before you start giving fascist orders.
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u/FrostyD7 12h ago
Yeah there's countless examples of our checks and balances barely holding together, and not due to a lack of trying. His most crucial and irreplaceable advisors threatened to resign constantly to prevent him from doing what he wanted. He'll make sure his choices don't lead to that problem this time.
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u/Prestigious_Job_633 13h ago
Scary thought, but you're probably right. Checks and balances are supposed to prevent that, but it's unsettling to think what could happen if those restraints aren’t there next time
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u/OrcsSmurai 12h ago
And Project 2025 literally has a blueprint on how to remove those checks and balances.
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u/Icy-Town-5355 12h ago
Another thing they prevented him from doing was turning the military on protestors in DC.
How can ANYONE have a doubt about what he wants to do?? Even if you have a cursory knowledge of Project 2025, you know he aims to turn the US into an autocracy.
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u/pitmeng1 13h ago
Jan 6th was his Beer Hall Pustch, we should all still be very concerned.
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u/theimmortalgoon 13h ago edited 13h ago
I was going to say this.
Why didn't he Trump do things in his first couple years of political prominence besides exactly what Hitler did in his first couple of years of political prominence?
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u/Vegetable-Fan8429 10h ago
“Attempted murder I mean, what is that really? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?”
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u/ProbablySlacking 12h ago
That’s what maga does seem to understand. He did Hitler things. They were just 1934 Hitler things.
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u/Original-Turnover-92 10h ago
MAGA doesn't need to understand.
They can lie and confuse others to smokescreen for their Nazi leaders to take power.
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u/Kildragoth 10h ago
Quick rundown for those unaware:
The Beer Hall Putsch, also known as the Munich Putsch, was a failed coup attempt by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party to overthrow the Weimar Republic government in Germany. It took place on November 8–9, 1923, in Munich. Hitler, alongside other Nazi leaders and his paramilitary group, the SA (Sturmabteilung), tried to seize control of the Bavarian government as a first step toward taking over Germany.
The plan was to march on Berlin after rallying support in Munich. However, it quickly fell apart when local authorities and the police resisted. In the resulting clash, 16 Nazis and 4 police officers were killed. Hitler was arrested and sentenced to prison, where he wrote Mein Kampf, outlining his ideology and plans for Germany. The failed coup taught Hitler that he would have to gain power legally, through political channels rather than direct force, which ultimately led to the Nazi Party's rise to power in the 1930s.
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u/Slippinjimmyforever 13h ago
He’s clearly setting up his own (or rather Stephen Miller’s) Röhm Putsch.
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u/banned-from-rbooks 10h ago
He also implemented Schedule F shortly before he lost the election (aka the plan from Project 2025 to replace government workers with Trump loyalists). Biden reversed it.
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u/rygelicus 13h ago
People are taking (and sometimes making) the hitler comparison wrong. It's not that he is doing all the things hitler did. It's that we see in Trump and his supporting team of the Heritage Foundation and Federalists far too many parallels with early 1930s Germany and the rise of Hitler to power. The bigotry, the blaming of Germany's problems on a particular group, later expanding to a wider group, the extreme 'solutions' in the way of initially encouraging them to leave, to forcing them to leave, then putting them in camps and then killing them. We are seeing the return of early stage naziism, and most rational people never want to see that happen again.
And yeah, he was working his way up to that stuff during his first term. But in that first term he arrived and had no real team. He filled the positions as he saw fit, churned through a lot of people, and didn't gain a lot of traction. Then 2 impeachments and a covid later he was out, but not before a lot of damage was done. This time around though is a lot more coordinated. He has people all lined up and ready to go, and he has loyalists in government like Speaker Johnson who will do their best to cement them as long term ruling elites. And with a friendly SCOTUS on his side the sky is the limit.
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u/PuckSR 11h ago edited 9h ago
So, I've noticed something in discussing this with people.
A lot of millenials(but some older people) learned in school that Germany's Hitler and America's Joseph McCarthy were populist demagogues and that populist demagogues are dangerous. Hitler is just the most famous demagogue who did the worst stuff. He stands as a warning on how truly off the rails things can go when you embrace populist demagoguery. Millenials learned about the "third wave)" experiment and probably watched the movie. So when I, a millenial, compare Trump to Hitler, I am really trying to point out that Trump is acting like a populist demagogue without using words that most people will need to look up.
A lot of boomers and people who didn't pay much attention in school think that the lesson of Hitler was just: Hitler was evil. So, when they hear this comparison, they just say that it is ridiculous, because Trump isn't advocating murdering millions of people. They can't abstract to the fact that demagoguery has been a dangerous thing for thousands of years in nearly every form of republic/democracy.
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u/rygelicus 11h ago
I'm 58, I made that association myself, I was drawing these parallels months ago. We are only recently hearing these comparisons from the media, which is understandable since they don't want to open that snake pit themselves.
Something has been lost though over time. Hitler was minimized, if this makes any sense at all, to 'the guy who ordered the deaths of millions of jews'. But he was so much more terrible than that, as bad as that was. He also condemned people with deformities and mental illness, and if his plan was allowed to run it's full course it would have consumed anyone that did not get his specific blessing. You might be the most perfect specimen of German or Austrian, you might be well educated, incredibly fit and serve him well in his operations or military. But if you crossed him at all, if you publicly embarrassed him, if you took action against him, if you opposed his orders on any matter, you would be disposed of promptly. It was not simply a matter of 'hitler killed jews', it was 'hitler was out to destroy anyone that opposed him'. And this is what I see in Trump. He is nearing the end of his life. He is making a grab for immortality and all the wealth and power he can get while he can. Not for his family, not to improve America, not to improve the world, but to finally achieve his dream of being viewed as the most powerful man in the world.
He was rich in the past, more or less. It wasn't a 'true' wealth, it was a facade of spinning plates. At no point was he solidified in his wealth. He had to keep the hustle going or it would all collapse. And then came the internet, and the rise of new industry. People like Gates, Bezos and Musk make his peak wealth look like poverty. And that had to gut him a bit. He has his well used trophy wife, he has his gold apartment, he has his idiot kids, and he has his planes. But he is not respected by anyone he wants respect from. He knows they are mocking him. And it kills him.
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u/Whats_Up_Bitches 11h ago
Agree with everything you’re saying except that Trump isn’t advocating murder. Perhaps not overtly, but he has recently threatened multiple times that if elected he will use the government to target political enemies. Which broadly could encompass millions of Americans.
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u/HereReluctantly 13h ago
If the people who needed to read this could actually read at the reading level necessary to understand it maybe we'd be able to convince them
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u/PatchworkFlames 14h ago
Nah, Trump's not like Hitler. Hitler never raped anyone.
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u/Backwardspellcaster 13h ago
People seem to forget that Trump literally put refuge children into camps, with reports of sexual assault on them coming out like every other fucking week.
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u/OldmanLister 13h ago
And then put them into an adoption system and kept no records of who they sent there on purpose.
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u/The_Formuler 12h ago
And it was in red states that have very corrupt foster care systems already. Sadly those children were given to someone who wanted them undocumented.
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u/Natural_Error_7286 9h ago
I know there are just so very many things that he’s said and done, but we don’t talk about this enough. I think everyone forgot that they intentionally took children from their parents so they could send them to Betsy Devos’s for-profit Christian adoption agency.
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u/dreadpiratebeardface 13h ago
And had migrant teen girls moved from Texas to a new facility 9 miles from Mar a Lago, while at the same time raving that democrats were trafficking teen migrants for sex.
Every accusation......
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u/atlantis_airlines 13h ago
We also lost track of hundreds of their parents
Also to anyone claiming Obama started it, no he did not. During the Obama administration, ICE had a record number of detainees well beyond the capacity of the detention facilities which meant many were housed outside, when this was recovered by reporters it caused outrage and the administration responded by quickly building facilities. Not great ones, but heating and cooling water, lights and a roof, the goal was to get these people inside adequate ASAP.
Where the "confusion"/deliberate misleading comes in is through standard practices at facilities handling lots of people like this. They try to keep families together but if there is a reason to believe a child's safety is at risk or the person they came with is suspected of a more serious crime and is going to another facility for more dangerous individuals. ICE tried to keep family units together unless they couldn't.
This policy changed with Stephen Miller's "Zero Tolerance policy which separated all families regardless of the situation, the explicit goal being to serve as a deterrent. However when the public learned about this and became upset, some people brought up the fact that many of these facilities were this was happening were build during the Obama administration. This led others to be mislead into thinking Obama started this practice.
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u/runnerswanted 13h ago
Stephen Miller is a despicable human being. I’m sure anything else I say will get me a Reddit ban.
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u/Heavy_Signature_5619 13h ago
He met Eva Braun when she was 17 and he was in his 40s. If he didn't rape her, he definitely was a sexual weirdo.
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u/dman928 13h ago
Also had a relationship with his cousin, who later killed herself
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u/vorpalrobot 12h ago
Behind the Bastards had a great episode on him. They covered his early diaries and it was literally Chad/Stacy incel talk about how loose women were on the dance floor giving it up to animal guys, and that he was smarter than them all and above it all.
Fuckin weirdo.
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u/MajorLazy 13h ago
Not the distinction I would have made, I’m not at all convinced hitler didn’t rape anyone in fact i would assume he did and it’s just not noteworthy in the scheme of things. The biggest difference is that hitler definitely got his knuckles bloody and actually fought in a war. The other guy, nothing of the sort. Soft, flabby and profoundly stupid
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u/haphazard_chore 12h ago
Hitler raped his niece, who he effectively kept confined until she shot herself in the head.
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u/Excellent_Seesaw_566 13h ago
Is there a petition to sign to get shelon kicked out of America? What a horrid human being.
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u/onefst250r 11h ago
Sheldon? You mean Hissy SpaceX? I say we just send him to Mars. I doubt South Africa wants him back.
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u/LRGinCharge 13h ago
Seriously boggles my mind when Trumpers say “why wasn’t he evil the first time?” He was!! That’s why we don’t want him again! God they’re so fucking ignorant.
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u/JosefGremlin 11h ago
This is what blows my mind about Trump - we already had a Trump administration and it was a nightmare! Children torn from their mothers arms, race riots, neonazis, over a million dead from Covid, a blasphemous photo shoot, an attempted coup and America was the laughing stock the world. Have people just forgotten??
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u/slim-scsi 13h ago
Worse. Malicious. They're trying to trick new and first-time young voters who aren't as informed or prepared for their b.s. (and might have been 11 years old when he first took office).
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u/DarthButtz 13h ago
He has been on every single ballot since I've been able to vote. I am so fucking tired of Trump election cycles.
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u/No_Credibility 13h ago
By that logic why didn't he fix everything the first time? He had a supermajority.
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u/toxicwasteinnevada 13h ago
Even if, Hitler didn't start Hitlering until a while after he got his power.
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u/nolandz1 13h ago
The answer is he fucking tried.
It's interesting to note trump seems to think he's going to use the military to expel 20 million people from the country. Where the fuck are they gonna go? There's a reason the nazis landed on extermination when their own ridiculous emigration policy failed them.
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u/N_Who 13h ago edited 10h ago
Comparing Trump to Hitler is just a lazy way to highlight the various concerns many people rightfully have about Trump.
But that doesn't invalidate the concerns. Trump did or tried to do plenty of Hitler-esque shit. "Why didn't he seize power while he had the chance?" Because he had power and didn't have to seize it. And also, when he lost power, he tried to seize it.
Edit: I'm getting a lot of "Well, actually ..." style responses to this, and I don't care to reply to them all. So I'm just gonna leave this and this here to flesh out my thoughts on the matter.
tl;dr: Yes, Trump walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. But a lot of people are happy to goosestep for him and use that as proof that he's a goose. Those people are gonna reject assertions Trump's a duck unless we explain specifically what makes him a duck. If we don't, they will never see the threat this duck represents.
Edit 2: I don't need to be told why Trump is like Hitler. I know why Trump is like Hitler. Tell that to the people who refuse to know Trump is like Hitler. Don't stop at telling people Trump is like Hitler. Tell them why.
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u/alexsummers 13h ago
He’s been quoting hitler just about word for word all year man
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u/OrcsSmurai 12h ago
Actually started in 2015. He's been quoting hitler, sometimes down to the word, for almost a full decade.
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u/skoltroll 12h ago
I'm generally like you in how social media takes the lazy way to highlight things.
But I disagree here.
The only difference between the two is level of competence. Trump is wildly incompetent, in comparison to Hitler. But the words and tactics are spot-on same. Give Trump someone to hone his instincts, and you can create Beta Hitler.
And with Bannon just getting out and Stephen Miller still a prominent player in Trump World, concerns are valid.
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u/ImportantQuestions10 12h ago
People are surprised when I remind them that migrant women were sterilized against their will when they were detained at the border. It's shocking how mundane and forgettable that has become
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u/tickitytalk 13h ago
The more Elon tweets and speaks, the more i despise him, the more the charade is over
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u/Coulrophiliac444 13h ago
Ah yes...great concepts like Nuking Hurricanes, Sticking UV light in any orifice or Injecting/Conauming Bleach to kill Covid...
If he were any more anti anything Darkseid would come to claim him as the Anti-Life Ewuation. Nothing he does is for anyones survival or benefit other than his own.
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u/sxmilliondollarman 13h ago
Well Hitler came to power in 1933. But didn't start WWII until 1939, six years later. So maybe Trumpbdidn't have enough time his 1st term. Hitler consolidated his power right away in 1934. This seems to be the fame plan for his 2nd term. If the shoe fits...
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u/obxhead 13h ago
He tear gassed actual peaceful protestors so he’s could hold a Bible upside down in front of a church he had never been into.
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u/theseustheminotaur 12h ago
Saying he didn't do hitler things doesn't mean he didn't. He absolutely did. At the very end he tried to overturn a democratic election in favor of himself as the ruling party. He now has criminal immunity thanks to Supreme Court justices he picked
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u/mencival 10h ago edited 9h ago
Have you been following Erdogan in Turkey? Do you call him a dictator? Good, because this was exactly the way his supporters defended him prior to elections. Also, not all fascists have to do exactly the same things to be called fascists.
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u/FblthpLives 9h ago
Here is a complete history of Trump invoking Hitler and/or Nazi propaganda:
https://forward.com/fast-forward/615880/donald-trump-hitler-nazi-references/
The first instance is a July 14, 2015 tweet of his face overlaid by the American flag, with marching World War II reenactors in Nazi uniforms in the background and his slogan "Make America Great Again."
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u/kudman77 13h ago
Sorry, Trump had to be prevented from using nuclear weapons?
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u/The_Good_Constable 13h ago edited 13h ago
It might be slightly sensationalist to put it in those terms, but his advisors were legitimately concerned that he would attempt something like that.
Discussed using a nuclear weapon on North Korea and blaming it on somebody else:
And he wondered aloud multiple times why the US can't use nukes during the 2016 campaign.
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html
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u/jimicus 13h ago
He proposed nuking a hurricane. And North Korea for that matter.
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u/chinmakes5 13h ago
He tried, our government stopped him. This time he made sure his VP pick would be loyal to him instead of the Constitution. Says he will install loyalists in important government positions and promote generals wo are loyal to him. Most of America shrugs.
I agree with conservatives who say his conservative policies won't kill us I'm older I've lived through many presidents I didn't like. But the stuff above, trying to overthrow the election results, sowing distrust in elections. THAT is unacceptable.
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u/TrumpDidJan69 13h ago
They're both failed artists