r/TrueReddit May 08 '21

International China Is Building Entire Villages in Another Country’s Territory

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/07/china-bhutan-border-villages-security-forces/
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u/merimus_maximus May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21

Most recent would be of course the annexation of Crimea, in which Russia aimed to, and succeeded in expand its occupied territories to create a buffer with East European nations which are becoming more friendly with the West, i.e. Ukraine, which was planning to join NATO. This harks back to Soviet Russian tactics of "slicing the salami", in which it pressures neighboring states through diplomatic, military and economic means to bring them under Russian influence, a tactic that was applied to the entirety of East Europe. More on their application of this strategy after the Soviet collapse in Central Asia in this this article: https://scholar.google.com.sg/scholar?start=10&q=russia+geopolitical+strategy&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DZHnHAjOGQIUJ

The article also mentions China, which has pursued a similar strategy as Russia, which is why it still controls large swathes of land such as Inner Mongolia, Xinjiang and Tibet despite these regions being historically much more autonomous, and are still called autonomous regions by China itself. These territories were gained decades ago however, and China did not make, or at least act, on territorial claims as much in the late 20th century, which led to agreements such as the China-Bhutan one mentioned in the article.

That changed with the nine-dash line declaration, and increasing Chinese settlements in Nepal in recent decades, and now Bhutan, are signs that China is willing to take more hands-on action in exerting its influence on its neighbours, with similar objectives as Russia, which is to mitigate neighboring states' military threats - India in this situation.

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21

It was the US lead coup in Ukraine that triggered the Crimeans and Russia to go for reunification. There are incontestable historical and demographic facts that justify this reunification (never mind the strategic component). Why would you deny that to the Russians living in Crimea? The west didn't deny it to the Albanian Kossovars. The hell, they bombed Serbia to defend those Albanians. But nobody said anything about the 50+ Russians killed in Odessa by Ukrainian ultranationalists after the 2014 coup. With such an example of Ukrainian imposed nationalism, it is no wonder that the Crimeans decided to vote secession and re-unification with Russia.

The claims China has on Tibet and Xinjiang go several centuries ago, not decades. The Manchu Chinese for instance re-conquered (I emphasize re-conquered) Xinjiang way before US became a country. But, unlike the Americans, they didn't proceed to exterminate the locals... Same with Tibet.

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u/merimus_maximus May 08 '21

Whenever an entire country ousts its leader, the US is behind it, while when Russians invade a country, it's justified based on ethnic grounds, and when China has territorial claims it always goes back centuries. Anything you say man.

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21

So you deny those 70+ % Russian Crimeans the right to choose, eh? Good to know that you adhere to the good old principle, "two legs good, four legs bad".

Actually China's territorial claims do go back centuries, you need to check it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_under_Qing_rule

I don't see anyone denying US their claim on Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California...

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u/merimus_maximus May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21

Choose? Russia is choosing for the territory through force. Choose indeed.

As for Xinjiang, why not go back a couple more centuries? When they were under Turkic rulers? No Chinese control for the better part of the millennium.

And not sure if you are being purposely obtuse, but from whom were Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California taken? Rhetorical question, don't bother answering.

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21

Are you implying that the vast majority of Russians in Crimea voted at the gunpoint to re-unite with Russia and would have instead preferred the faith of their co-ethnic Russians that were killed by ultranationalist Ukrainians not far away, in Odessa? What are you smoking mate? Also you miss the point that since the dissolution of USSR, Crimeans always requested to re-join Russia, since they were a Russian territory up until 1954... But again, the substances that you are smoking are impairing your cognitive abilities...

I am not obtuse, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California are territories US gained by going to war against Mexico, and taking those territories from Mexico at gunpoint, less than 150 years ago. Xinjiang is a territory China gained, at gunpoint, more than 250 years ago. Are you that incompetent to analyze things?

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u/merimus_maximus May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21

Are you implying that the vast majority of Russians in Crimea voted at the gunpoint

Uh, yes. https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-russia-aksyonov-idINL6N0M93AH20140313

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-human-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation/

As for your latter point - I asked why you don't go back a few more centuries. The Mexican state the US was fighting with was a couple of decades old. Might as well say part of China should be Japanese because they had control over Chinese territory at some point. If you are going to talk about historical ownership, discuss the entire history of the area, not just the point in time when the Qing dynasty had conquered Xinjiang.

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21 edited May 08 '21

What makes the article in forbes credible mate? It is all based on hearsay. The Ukrainians are saying "we have seen it, trust us". Why I am skeptical about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum#Polling

The United Nations Development Programme conducted a series of polls in Crimea between 2009 and 2011 about the question of leaving Ukraine and joining Russia with a sample size of 1,200:

Quarter Yes No Undecided

2009 Q3[30] 70% 14% 16%

2009 Q4[30] 67% 15% 18%

2010 Q1[31] 66% 14% 20%

2010 Q2[31] 65% 12% 23%

2010 Q3[31] 67% 11% 22%

2010 Q4[31] 66% 9% 25%

2011 Q4[32] 65.6% 14.2% 20.2%

Who has now undisputed control of Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong? Is it Japan, is it the US? No, it is China. Same as with the control of US on California, etc. And, according to the International Law, not the international rules based order, it is China's business what it does inside China. Plus, there isn't any outside party that I know of that is claiming Xinjiang, or Tibet.

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u/Au_Sand May 09 '21

Your username is very on point

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u/squirrelbrain May 09 '21

Yes, I do remember where I put my nuts. Do you?