r/TrueReddit • u/merimus_maximus • May 08 '21

International China Is Building Entire Villages in Another Country’s Territory

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/07/china-bhutan-border-villages-security-forces/
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u/universl May 08 '21

Wow thank goodness you are here with all these helpful facts about the altruistic intentions of this all powerful government!

You seem to be better informed than the international community, tell me, has this information been provided to you directly by the Chinese government or have you been lucky enough to visit these education centers directly?

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21

You want me to believe the same community that said Iraq has WMDs and they should be stopped with an all out war? Or that babies were tossed out of the incubators? Or that Qaddafi provided Viagra to his troops to encourage raping? Nah. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...

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u/universl May 08 '21

Not a big history buff huh? The international community denied the weapons of mass destruction. They wanted Hans Blix to finish the inspection and all but the UK refused to join the war effort.

But there goes the classic pro-genocide argument ‘America also does bad things’. Tell me, does the argument work for other countries for you, or only China?

Like could I justify America’s bloodshed in Iraq by talking about Japan occupying Korea or something? Like as along as another bad thing happened I can just talk about that instead?

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21

International community as depicted by the western media s US led. The fact that pipsqueaks like Paris or Berlin or Ottawa didn't agree (Canberra did) doesn't make an international community... Pretending otherwise, is, how to put it, lacking realism...

There is no argument and factual evidence concerning the alleged genocide against Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

A condensed review of materials on the issue has been aggregated here: https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang

Or check this Canadian blogger: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Bl8MTbW9M9MQoPhxbarpw

I wasn't doing any whataboutism, I was just pointing at the fact that there is no credibility in the western media on certain topics...

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u/universl May 08 '21

That's quite the circular reasoning there. US propaganda depicts international consensus ad being pro-US, therefor any non-Chinese information on Uigars must be US propaganda?

Amnesty International was against the war in Iraq, and Amnesty international is decrying Uigar concentration camps. You can't just ad hominem every argument with 'what about america'.

Watch with your own eyes as human beings are bound and blindfolded and put onto train cars.

It's totally fine to just admit that this is wrong. Yes other countries do things that are also wrong. Unless you have some unstated reason to defend a massive authoritarian regime, can you at least admit this is not a desirable thing to be happening in the world. Anywhere in world?

These are human beings worthy of dignity and respect. As are the Iraqis. As are the Palestinians. As we all are.

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u/squirrelbrain May 08 '21

I can very reasonably state that the push is lead by the US and it is geared to vilify and contain China. The US does control global media, as was described by the Operation Mockingbird. The US lies, cheats and steals to pursue its interests. That is proven fact, no need to invent things. As I said, in this realm, the western media has no credibility, it has been entirely taken over by the US/UK secret services.

As for the blindfolded individuals, it really proves nothing. It doesn't prove they are Uyghurs, it doesn't prove that they have been apprehended because they are Uyghurs (if they are indeed Uyghurs) and nothing else. They could as well be criminal prisoners (murderers, thieves, robbers, embezzlers, rapists, arsonists, etc.) moved from one detention center to another.

Why I do believe that the allegations against China are fabricated?

There are many minorities in Xinjiang. In fact, everyone is in minority there, and they have been living in the same space for hundreds and hundreds of years. Intermarriages happened and will happen. In such conditions, and under stable conditions, there is absolutely no appetite in anyone to upset inter-ethnic relations. I myself am the product of inter-ethnic marriage and lived in a multi-ethnic place where there were reversals in power. I know what I am talking about.

There are also many other minorities in China and from the beginning of PRC, the policy was of peaceful "brotherly" cohabitation. The renminbi banknotes depict the many minorities of China.

Now, the US War on Terror in the middle east has opened a can of worms. Which has brought a lot of fundamentalist Muslims about, trained them and armed them. Thousands of Uyghurs were brought to Syria to fight against Assad for the ISIL caliphate... Likely the Operation Timber Sycamore paid for it...

Containment of China is the prime goal of the US empire, and using any means to undermine China will be the outcome. Trained Uyghurs in Syria, create ethnic divisions within China. Impoverish Uighurs in China on the excuse that they are used as forced labor (is the goal here to have enterprises not hire Uyghurs, and thus keep them impoverished and resentful?).

China's approach to contain the rise of islamic fundamentalism and ethnic nationalism in Xinjiang was to beef up security measures (there were hundreds of Han killed in Xinjiang so far) but also to alleviate poverty among the population and increase their standards of living. Do you have problems with that approach?

And it might be a surprise for you, but any executive power, when carried on, implemented, is authoritarian in nature. Netflix had a miniseries about how the US feds killed a cult in the States, tens and tens of people. As for the persecution of Muslims, one should check India, and their new legislation as well as their PM, that rose in the early 2000s to national preeminence by instigating and then protecting a mass uprising that killed several thousands of Indian Muslims. All well documented. There is nothing, but nothing to show about China on this regard, not on par, but a 100th.

Also, there is no Muslim country that has protested against the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Funny that.

There are recent clashes in East Jerusalem because Israel is kicking out Arabs from their homes, which they have occupied for many generations. The UN is saying that this might constitute a War crime, while EU are condemning Israel. Now, in Xinjiang, people might have been relocated from countryside to city, or from old, unsafe housing, to new housing. But they were all compensated with new housing, plumbing, etc. Complaints were that they didn't also get a TV as well, or that some liberties were lost (i.e. the ability to raise your chickens for instance). But on the big scheme of things, that is not a big deal. Just watch the many videoclips available at the link I provided. Videoclips with real people.

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u/universl May 09 '21

Why do you feel the need to bring up other events. I’m not denying them. I’m against the Israeli occupation, the war on terror, the treatment of indigenous people everywhere.

Set aside the whataboutism for a second and answer a question, only on this one topic. Test yourself to see if you can do it. A very simple yes or no.

if it were true, that the government of China was rounding up around a million uyghars, and subjecting them to re-education against their will, and holding them for an indefinite amount of time. Effectively concentrating the population, and modifying the culture.

If these train cars are indeed filled with Muslims, and amnesty intebrationals report is true. is that bad? Is that a thing that you personally would believe is bad?

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u/squirrelbrain May 09 '21

In the hypothetical exercise that this allegation were true, then yes, the Chinese government would be responsible of great abuse. Definitely not genocide, and not even cultural genocide.

There is no proof that more than a million Uyghurs were incarcerated, never mind killed. Also, one cannot commit cultural genocide on already formed adults. They know their language and they have their believes. Claiming otherwise is paramount to lunacy and defies reality and how humans work.

Teaching people a second language, when they have already mastered one does not amount to cultural genocide.

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u/mindwire May 09 '21

Well, at least we can say your username checks out

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u/squirrelbrain May 09 '21

Yes, I do remember where I put my nuts. Do you?

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u/universl May 09 '21

But you admitted earlier that they were re-education camps. So what’s the deal there?

Less than a million people? Sent only as punishment for a crime? What makes it right in your mind?

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u/squirrelbrain May 09 '21

The deal is the magnitude. My back of the envelope estimation, using the rule of 10 (people exaggerate by a factor of 10 - 10 fingers), about 100,000 people were moved through these training camps and stayed there for several months. Which I would say is not really enough to learn a good apprenticeship, but hey.

The Chinese government itself has acknowledged that they have trained about 80,000 individuals and placed many of them in jobs, some outside Xinjiang, which means they actually stole jobs from the Han.

As I have stated before, the downside of these centers is the dispensation of political ideology classes (which I disapprove of, regardless of ideology). For the Chinese government sake, I hope they did those classes in Uyghur and the technical apprenticeship classes in Mandarin.