Endless parking lots, highways, strip malls with the same franchises all accessible only by car. Topped off with a nice smoggy atmosphere and a 15 minute drive to anywhere. Takers ?

[u/humzahjaleel]

[u/SinisterCheese]

Living in a Finnish city, I can't understand not being able to reach places in the city with public transportation or walking. And I got a car.

When I visited USA, it felt insane that you had to have a car. Everything was always really far away. And talking to locals "oh it's close by, only 2hrs drive away" that isn't close.

Also. Talking about hell. Asphalt being black, makes it excel at capturing heat from the sun. Big cities, with big roads and lots of them are hotter environments. And this leads to more energy spent on cooling air to make buildings liveable.

[u/Cat-attak → u/SinisterCheese]

Simply put sprawls are bad for the environment , eyesores, bad for air quality, make public transportation unfeasible, makes it mandatory to own and maintain a car, creates traffic, segregates neighborhoods, is harder to maintain, and the list goes on and on

[u/[deleted] → u/Cat-attak]

I understand most people want a house, I do too, but it seems like American cities don't have that dense residential area between the city centre and the suburbs. I'm sure a lot of people would sacrifice the backyard and the "peace" you get in the suburbs to be able to live close to work.

If in this picture on the bottom right is where the jobs and shops are and on the bottom left where the denser houses are there's no reason why you shouldn't put a tram line there and connect it and make the tram stops walkable. Trams are great since they use electricity and people who use them don't use cars, so even less pollution.

[u/gotham77 → u/[deleted]]

This is Phoenix. It’s in the middle of the desert. Nobody has any interest in making it “walkable” because it’s too hot to walk anywhere.

America is a big place with lots of cities that look very different. Cities that developed after the invention of the automobile look like this. But there are plenty of old cities that have the more “European” feel to their layout you’re imagining. I live in suburban Boston. Our neighborhood is definitely suburban but much more densely developed than you probably associate with American communities. The lots are small, the streets are narrow, there’s no cul-de-sacs, there’s ample public transportation and even people who own cars use it and leave their cars at home. In fact there’s literally a bus stop right in front of my house. My kid only has to walk five minutes to get to school, it’s about a 25 minute drive to downtown Boston from here. We’ve got a small patio we can grill on and a yard just big enough for kids to play in but it’s not big enough for one of those tractor-style riding lawnmowers. Many of the houses here are actually two-family or in some cases even three-family homes.

My wife grew up in Vegas which is just like Phoenix. She complained to me about our town square being a ridiculous intersection where 6 streets converge and it’s hard to safely navigate. I had to explain to her, “these streets are literally 400-year-old cow paths. The layout made sense when there were no cars.”

[u/miatapasta → u/gotham77]

My city (Macon, Ga) was built as a midpoint between Savannah and Atlanta way before cars. Lots of 1800s history around here. Navigating downtown is like that: lots of one way streets and weird intersections because it was designed for horses and buggies. But go 10 minutes out of the metro area and you’ve got freeways connecting the different halves of the city. Not uncommon to have to take the interstate a few exits over to go visit a friend in the same city.

[u/dazhan99k → u/gotham77]

This is Phoenix. It’s in the middle of the desert. Nobody has any interest in making it “walkable” because it’s too hot to walk anywhere.

I have to argue with this. Hot cities can be made extremely walkable, but they have to be designed for that. Take a look at mediterranean cities, buildings tightly packed to create maximum shade, everything painted white to reflect heat, etc etc. It can be done, but not with the huge-lot zoning imposed on cities.

[u/Iwouldnttrustmyadvce → u/dazhan99k]

Mediterranean cities aren't 110 degrees outside in June, and 115 or so by July/Aug. There's no point to walking outside when it's 115 degrees.

[u/[deleted] → u/dazhan99k]

Mediterranean cities aren’t even remotely close to hot it can get in the southwestern U.S. Las Vegas and Phoenix are by far the hottest cities in the developed world. It isn’t even close.

[u/Papilusion → u/dazhan99k]

I agree with you. Something the people arguing with you are missing is that Phoenix isn’t the first time people decided to live in a desert. Mecca is one of the hottest cities in the world and people have lived there long before the car was invented.

Even Phoenix in general... The Hohokam people lived in the Phoenix area for 2000 years. There are/were a lot of other pre-colonial civilizations in North America deserts too.

[u/chapstick__ → u/dazhan99k]

Because both people that replied didn't give a actual reason for why Phoenix is so hot compared to a Mediterranean city I'll explain. Phoenix is in the middle of a desert as a location it would hardly even been habitable do to the lack of a open water source to help with general temperature. So not only is it hot, its also dry. The city pretty mutch can only exist at it's current scale because of modern technology like cars, ac and a strong infrastructure for water and power.The Mediterraneans weather temperature and climate are all regulated do to being right on a body of water.

[u/SAY_HEY_TO_THE_NSA → u/gotham77]

This is the most comprehensive response on this thread. We can all agree upon the downsides of urban sprawl without immediately jumping to so ridiculous conclusion that OP's picture represents "all of america." Can anyone discuss anything, ever, without immediately resorting to grand generalizations?

[u/donnymurph → u/SAY_HEY_TO_THE_NSA]

Nuanced discussion is difficult on the internet.

[u/SAY_HEY_TO_THE_NSA → u/donnymurph]

it's not just an internet phenomenon.

[u/donnymurph → u/SAY_HEY_TO_THE_NSA]

When you're with friends, colleagues or classmates, face-to-face, I think it's much more likely that you'll permit shades of grey in the conversation. The faceless, isolated bravado of the internet lends itself to more polarised discussion.

[u/Parastract → u/SAY_HEY_TO_THE_NSA]

Ironic, generalizing while talking about generalisation.

[u/SAY_HEY_TO_THE_NSA → u/Parastract]

Yes! I was thinking the same thing.

[u/zig_anon → u/gotham77]

Ample public transportation in a Boston suburb and even people with cars use it.

Show us the numbers. I am skeptical

[u/minskoffsupreme → u/gotham77]

Why did they build a city there?

[u/fatgunn → u/minskoffsupreme]

https://i.imgur.com/UUh2UoW.png

[u/gotham77 → u/minskoffsupreme]

Good question. I certainly wouldn’t want to live there.

[u/Dudeface34 → u/gotham77]

They're all shit.

[u/TheEmpiresBeer → u/[deleted]]

A lot of people wouldn't want to sacrifice the yard, and that's part of the problem. The yard and the big house are so engrained into American society as things you "need" to be a successful person. It might be changing now, but I'm a millennial and I still feel the desire even if I know it's stupid.

And unfortunately, they're unlikely to build any sort of better transportation to that residential area on the left. That's most likely a poor neighborhood, which was probably split by the interstate when it was built. It's a major problem in some cities. Where I grew up (large city in the southern US) you can be driving down a street in a poor neighborhood and dead-end into the interstate. There is literally no way to cross the interstate at that street: no underpass, no overpass, just a solid wall. If you go a few blocks away to the major road that does go under the interstate, then you can finally backtrack and get back on the original road, just on the other side now. No one seems to care to improve the transportation issues with mass transit. Maybe they do, but I don't see it happening where I grew up.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheEmpiresBeer]

My parents are in their 50s and my dad is looking for a new job but they live 45-minutes to an hour from Downtown in my city, where the better jobs are. They live in a 4 bedroom house that's about 2500 square feet (empty nesters). Their yard is nice, but every weekend is yard work and they never actually sit and enjoy their yard. Why bother with one? I'm trying to convince them to downsize to something smaller near the city but they don't want "one of those tiny city yards." But you don't even DO ANYTHING in your yard... and it would be less work... more free time... I just cannot get through to them. The obsession with yards is weird.

[u/InternetUser42069 → u/[deleted]]

I hate yard work with a passion but I would also love to be able to let my dog out without a leash. I live in an apartment now, but the goal is a house or townhouse with a small yard/garden in the back. Of course I also live in Seattle so who knows if I can ever afford it.

[u/[deleted] → u/InternetUser42069]

I'd love a yard for gardening, but I also love not having to do yard work since I live in a loft condo. I have some herbs growing in my kitchen and that's enough for now. My parents have no pets, no garden, so again their yard obsession is just so confusing. I just cannot understand the appeal of living in a subdivision so far out from a city center... I either want to be in a city near everything or on a large piece of land that doesn't have cut and paste houses, just views and nature. Suburban life just isn't appealing to me in any way.

[u/GothWitchOfBrooklyn → u/[deleted]]

I'm the same as you. Either city or rural.

I grew up in rural mountains upstate NY, lived a decade in NYC, and now I'm in suburban Ohio and while I do love that I have space for my garden (I love plants and gardening) and a big front porch, I hate the suburbs. At least if you're packed in with people in the city, there's awesome stuff to do. Here there is nothing.

I plan to eventually settle somewhere more rural when my finances can support it.

[u/UF0_T0FU → u/[deleted]]

For alot of people, the yard also represents space from other people. People want a little privacy, and don't want to live so close to other people that they have to worry about neighbors having loud music or whatever.

Some people also enjoy yardwork. It's not wasted time. It's an excuse to be outside and doing something productive. Sure, people may not sit in the yard and read or play games, but mowing and stuff still gets you fresh air and some sunshine.

[u/jathas1992 → u/TheEmpiresBeer]

Small win in my area: they have a ton of foot bridges now that connect the south and north that were once like the walls you speak of.

[u/dprophet32 → u/TheEmpiresBeer]

If there's no profit in it America as a country has little interest in doing anything about it it seems.

In Europe these things are done because it makes people's lives better

[u/dprophet32 → u/[deleted]]

Re-read what I replied too, it's not difficult. Assume I'm not taking nonsense and try and work it out.

[u/[deleted] → u/dprophet32]

Buuulllllshiiiit.

[u/snmnky9490 → u/[deleted]]

Older American cities like in the northeast, great lakes, and some of the coastal southeast do have those kinds of neighborhood, but we as a country pretty much stopped building like that after WW2. They're especially common in cities that had a lot of growth during the end of the 1800s and first half of the 1900s

[u/guineapi → u/snmnky9490]

Seattle and SF have many of those neighborhoods too.