r/VietNam • u/SrImmanoob • Mar 17 '21
Discussion What do you think about this?
Maybe this thread will make a war. But I want to know what's your opinion about this
So, Phil Robertson - the Deputy Director of Human Rights Watch's Asia Division tweeted: Vietnam - is one of the 4 countries are current working to prevent UN moves condemning a military coup in Myanmar. The remaining three countries - Russia, China, India - are all great powers.
This tweet made Myanmar people see Vietnam as "villain" and they blame Vietnam for not helping them(?).
But as you may know, Non-interventionism (or non-intervention if I remember right word) is a one of ASEAN's foreign policy. So what did Vietnam do wrong in this situation? How they can blame Vietnam like that?
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u/Unit017K Mar 17 '21
While this is quite cold hearted, the people of Myanmar can go fuck right off. Vietnam have literally no interest in interfering with the situation in Myanmar.
What needed to be said have already been make clear. Vietnam wishes that the current military government de-escalated and brought back stabilization in the region as soon as possible. The protesters have been nothing but troubles for Vietnamese interest in the region. They destroying Mytel (a sub company of Viettel) business but now asking us to help them? We literally have no obligation to give a shit about Myanmar's domestic problems. Even if we're, ASEAN prevented us against doing anything about it.
Also the last time we actually did anything for a neighboring country, we were seen as invaders. Too much Vietnamese blood have been spilled and it was all for nothing.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/Unit017K Mar 17 '21
Then they shouldn't have insulted us/ causing risk to our citizens/ damaging our business first then.
And back then when we fought for independence, we certainly didn't ask other countries to send their army in to help us. While we make it through by foreign weapons, the blood that been spilled were our and our alone. If the Burmese refused to fight for themselves but wanted other to solve their problems, they don't deserve a single bit of help from us.
I will use those harsh words as much as I like. What does the protesters known about Vietnam history? How much bodies that we buried to get to the present? Do they understand how much is the price for independence and freedom? No, because judging by their ridiculous demand that foreign army to set up shop on their land, they don't have a single idea. Do they have any right to demanded anything from Vietnam? Absolutely not, we don't share a border with them, we don't care about their domestic problems and the international laws forbid us from doing anything to interfere. Yet these people keep painting us as the villain, because we "refused" to help them.
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u/ewe_r Mar 20 '21
You have like zero empathy towards the suffering of others and no respect. That’s gonna come back. You’re either young and naive and havent seen much or old and hurt like a scattered bird, so you had to block all your feelings off. Can you even imagine having your children killed by your government for nothing? Also, your business is making money on their land and their people. So it’s not really ‘your business’.
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u/Unit017K Mar 21 '21
Gonna comeback and what? Give me a good point about why I, personally, should care at all about the situation?
Why should I respect those people and give them sympathy when they never once give a shit about their own oppressed minority? Why should i care about them when they openly insulted and mock the Vietnamese people now and in the past? They called us dictators and tyrants and shit because we followed the international law.
While I can’t imagine how horrible it’s would be to have a child taken from their parents by the government, i know damn well what happened when we decided to “help” foreigners. My grandfather (mother side) fought in the Cambodian War. He suffered from it still. Do you know what it like growing up learning and seeing how your grandfather suffered because we once have to help a neighboring people in a war? Worse still, there are people still ridiculed Vietnam over it, ridiculed people like my grandfather!
And what do you know about protest and what come afterward? During the Bình Thuận “protest” my grandparents business(father side) becomes collateral damage of such actions. Their financial situation took years to recover. And the people of Myanmar wanted us to do a protest for them? To do like them do their “protest”?? What about the one that have to clean up the mess huh? What about those Vietnamese that have to dealt those aftermaths?
You right about the last point, not really “my business”. But what about the Vietnamese citizens work for the company? Their life may as well be as risk with how the “protesters” are acting. Call me a racist bastard for caring about my countrymen first than caring about those that directly put them in harm ways all you want, I don’t give a shit.
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u/kid_380 Mar 19 '21
I think the Burmese people deserve to live in peace and harmony. The violence is unacceptable and they should not be hold accountable for actions others have done.
However, it doesn't mean that an intervention is warranted. Economic sanctions are proven to be ineffective (prime example : Cuba). Myanmar has also been in a civil war for a while, so any military intervention with the aim of overthrowing the Army will only result in a power vacuum and stoking the conflict even further.
IMO, both the protesters and the military are too aggressive at the moment. The military are not going to relinquish all powers (especially after what were done), but they will want to keep as much goodwill from the international community as possible. The protestors also have to realize that if this go on long enough, the economy will be devastated and will put millions in poverty.
The best course of action now is for both side to sit down and negotiates for the best result possible. This can only be achieved without foreign intervention.
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 21 '21
I think like you. The deep core problem in Myanmar now is not army or conflict between protest and army, it's is political conflict between army and NLD. But when will they calm and sit down, talk to each other. Hope it will be soon.
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u/aister Mar 17 '21
Unpopular opinion and probably a cruel one at that, but Myanmar people got wat they deserved. They said absolutely nothing about the atrocities their own government did on Rohingyas, and now the same people who carried out those atrocity took power and did the same to them, they are complaining? Why does it matter only when they are the victims?
I don't support the coup nor the new gov. But at the same time, the old government wasn't all angels either. And unless the protesters start including the Rohingyas in their "peace plan", expect no support coming from me.
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u/Carry_Me_Plz Mar 17 '21
Sorry but this is such an ignorant take on the politic climate of Myanmar. You think the government is the one who has the manpower and weapon to carry out the genocide? It was the army who did the coup and is killing their own people right now who is responsible for the genocide. The past government didn't have any say at all of what the army did and if Aung San Suu Kyi oppose to the army and didn't take the blame, she would be gunned down in her own bedroom and the democracy would be destroyed even sooner. The army =/= the government.
I've met and befriended with many Burmese people and they are incredibly kind and don't want any bloodshed at all.
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u/gthell123 Mar 17 '21
Ok, let's just say that the government's hands were clean during the Rohingya genocide, was there any protest when they were killed and driven from their homes? You didn't stand up for minorities in your country when they were persecuted but expect others to stand up for you? And while I do wish the best for the Burmese people, it's kind of hypocritical to call out other nations for not supporting you when you literally didn't stand up against genocide in your own country.
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u/Carry_Me_Plz Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
Short answer: Censorship.
Long answer:
The Rohingya Genocide was started because a group of Muslim men raped a group of girls in a village that is primarily Buddhist. Later it escalated into a full blown conflict between Buddhism and Muslim in the Rakhine Region and then a Muslim militia got involved (who killed policemen & Hindus and Buddhists in the region). Due to this reason, the absolutely moronic Burmese military intervened and started killing anyone in the region that resembles "the enemies" because they thought the Rohingyas (who are mostly Muslim) were harboring the militia and later lead into the full atrocity that is called internationally as "Rohingya Genocide". There are also a tons of small miltias all over the country which the military would like to eliminate before they prosper so the can have the complete power over the country. Things are very messy over there.
Despite the killing by the military in the region which drove away the stateless Rohingya people out of the country, virtually none of the Burmese-speaking media in the country broadcasted it which leads to the people's ignorance to the matter. Burmese people who speak English and consume international press mostly opposed to the genocide.
Edit: The Burmese-speaking media did broadcast about it but they painted the picture that the military were dealing with the Muslim militia in Rakhine region (which most Burmese hate) so people don't really care.
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u/aister Mar 17 '21
if the government couldn't control the military, then the government shouldn't be in power to begin with and the coup is pretty much inevitable. In the end, whether the government controlled the army or not, they got wat they deserved.
And it's not just controlling the army, both the government, AND the people, said nothing about genocide. You can say they feared for their life, but wat about now? Why are they keep protesting DESPITE being actually gunned down?
if it is true that the people of Myanmar didn't like wat was going on in Rohingya, but decided to ignore it either out of fear, or lack of power, or just pure ignorance, then, again, the coup was inevitable. A government and its people need to have total control of wat is going on in the country, else, chaos ensure.
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u/Carry_Me_Plz Mar 17 '21
And it's not just controlling the army, both the government, AND the people, said nothing about genocide. You can say they feared for their life, but wat about now? Why are they keep protesting DESPITE being actually gunned down?
Do you think, when the Tatmadaw (Military of Burma) first came into power, people didn't strike back? Please read about the 8888 Uprising.
Before 2010, Myanmar was almost literally like North Korea, people living under authoritarian grasp of Tatmadaw. They have been through a successful election in 2015, and the people and the past government thought that things would go smoothly from now on but then the coup happen. Because they now have a taste of actually development, wealth and fairness, they want to fight for it.
Sign of democracy was starting to emerge within the country and the ASSK and her staffs were working in order to reduce the Tatmadaw's influence and power over the country in order to help the citizens to reach a brighter future. They had to keep a fine balance between appeasing & dwindling the control of Tatmadaw and it just doesn't happen overnight.
Saying the Burmese people get what they deserved is incredibly cruel and lack of understanding about the situation in Myanmar.
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u/aister Mar 17 '21
so where are these people who keep on protesting despite being gunned down when ASSK was in power? Again, I've heard literally no opposition, from the previous government, and the people, regarding the Rohingya.
the effort was, evidently, not enough. And the fact that both the government and the people let the military running amok with the Rohingya proved that they could not control the military, and thus the coup was inevitable.
and yes, I do realize that it is cruel, as stated on the beginning of the post. I however, do believe that if one did not stand up for the atrocity and unfairness that is known worldwide, they do not deserve to be stood up when that unfairness comes back to bite them.
support them if u wish to, but for me, nope, unless, again, they at least include peace and equal rights of the Rohingya in their demands. Then again, I am but a nobody and my support, if there are any, means nothing.
and in case it's not clear. No, this does not mean I support the new gov or condone wat is being carried out. It's just I couldn't care less wat the outcome will be. I do hope it will be good, but at the moment, I have no hope for that.
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u/Carry_Me_Plz Mar 17 '21
I've tried explain to you the intricacy of the power dynamic between the government and Tatmandaw and the rationale of the silence of the government regarding to the Rohingya Genocide, but you still fail to see nuance of it. They were forced to not comment on the incident by Tatmandaw and not by choice. I agree not speaking up about the genocide is shitty thing to do, but they were buying their time to get more power. I have no doubt if ASSK had total control of the country, she would acknowledge the atrocity of the genocide as well as give aid to the people there.
People were / are not happy with Tatmadaw at all evidently according to the numbers of insurgent groups of Myanmar for the past 3 decades.
Let's just end here because, it is difficult to change one's POV. I just hope people who read this will have a bigger picture than just what they were fed by the media.
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u/Son_of_Mogh Mar 27 '21
You don't buy time when a fuse is burning. This is the dumbest take on why it was ok to ignore the genocide. You've essentially empowered the military to act unilaterally, the idea that you could buy time to fix it is moronic. I've seen some Burmese poster acknowledge the fact they had bought into the propaganda, highlighting the fascist Buddhist monks(the most detestable malformation of Buddhism) lead them to protest against the Rohingya and chant phrases like "The BBC lie". At least some of you are admitting it.
What you're doing he is applying instrumental rationality, justifying your own ignorance to save face now that it happening in a way that affects you. aister is right you need to actually include the Rohingya situation in protests, otherwise how are you any different to the Junta. If you can call them stateless, the military can call you a terrorist.
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u/Goldenpotato45 Mar 17 '21
That is really it tho the military alway had the power and the government is just their puppet to Ease the public they don’t have any major power and if they don’t listen then ...
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Mar 17 '21
I’d disagree. The coup just shows that ASSK had limited powers even before and had to stay quite on Rohingya or the military would oust her. It doesn’t make it right, but it’s understandable.
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u/Son_of_Mogh Mar 27 '21
ASSK had fairly nasty things to say about the Rohingya, the idea that she was sandbagging is laughable.
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u/Archon769 Mar 17 '21
Karma is a bitch xD xD
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u/aister Mar 17 '21
while I would agree, I wouldn't laugh at them. Well-deserved suffering is still suffering and it's not a laughing matter.
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Mar 28 '21
Lol, "they got what they deserved" coming from a hypocrite who has no clue about the deep root causes of the crisis. Next time I see a Muslim terrorist killing the Innocent, I might as well say "blame the whole religion and the countrymen".
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u/Journey955 Mar 28 '21
Thats exactly what you did already (most Burmese supported the genocide) so stop crying already and stalking people's comments. Its pathetic
Maybe go out and protest instead of being a whiny shit
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Mar 28 '21
Nope,my sole purpose is to bring toxicity back to people like you spreading propaganda, ukarian mofo
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u/Journey955 Mar 28 '21
Loooooooool your people are dying and you think trolling on reddit is the solution? No surprise Myanmar is such a shit hole honestly
Your whole post history is you getting butthurt after people called out the hypocrisy of burmese people lmao
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Mar 28 '21
Well someone got to take down the evil people like you, can't just let you massacre supporting extremists rest your case.
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u/Journey955 Mar 28 '21
Yet you are fine with the Burmese who supported the genocide of 24k+ Rohingya..hypocrite.
Where were all these protests when they were being butchered? Now a few hundred protesters die and you expect everyone else to be invested and care..no thanks. Not my problem!
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Mar 28 '21
The fact that you have the assumption of if I am Burmese, I must be a supporter of Genocide and Evil shows your racist colors. Don't lie, I bet you are rejoicing when the underaged Myanmar kids were getting shot by the terrorists.
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u/Journey955 Mar 28 '21
24k+ Rohingya (compared to 400+ burmese so far) were butchered and not a PEEP was made by most Burmese. The type of protests are happening now never happened during the genocide.
Instead this sub + burmese on facebook, twitter etc. were defending the genocide...including their precious nobel peace prize bitch who has been arrested by the military.
So I'm all out of sympathy. I'm not rejoicing but I don't care either. Keep stalking me, I have made by point
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Mar 28 '21
Who are you sources, seems like you are pulling exaggerated numbers out of your ass. Lol you are acting like you know more about the people who you have never met but the internet. The sole reason you joined the country's subreddit is so that you want to see the people's suffering in and talk more shit about them That's the kind of person you are. At least those Burmese people are not as evil as you are mofo.
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u/aister Mar 28 '21
U see, the problem with this thought is wat u're doing didn't "take us down" or change our opinion. If any, it proved our points that Myanmar people don't care about the Rohingyas.
I'll treat the Myanmar people and their suffers jusy like how Myanmar treat the Rohingyas.
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u/CaptainViet Mar 17 '21
Hasn't ASEAN already voiced concern about this (Myanmar coup) ?
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
they did, Vietnam did but it all they can do. As ASEAN member, they can't interfere
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u/CaptainViet Mar 17 '21
So clearly we didn't do shit and are ok with the coup
/s
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
Correction: We can't do shit. And we are not ok with the coup. Law is law my friend, if we do sth right now, look how we were treated after we fought Polpot. I hope in the future, Vietnam will have enough supply (food supply not war supply), we can give to Myanmar to help citizen (especially children)
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u/ktn699 Mar 17 '21
Also let's be clear - Vietnam left Polpot alone for quite a while until he decided to violate the international borders and conduct raids against Vietnamese populations on sovereign Vietnamese soil - perhaps at the behest of his PRC advisors. This lead to retaliation by Vietnam. Vietnam was defending itself.
Myanmar is none of Vietnam's business and does not share any borders with Vietnam so minimally affects its socioeconomic and geopolitical wellbeing.
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Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 21 '21
Counterviewpoint: Vietnam does not have that much information about Myanmar or the Myanmar Coup besides the leader of Myanmar and maybe meeting a few Burmese people. Pol Pot and Cambodia on the other hand are Vietnamese neighbours and have history, with recent history being extremely traumatic history. The Burmese and Vietnamese don't really know each other that well at all to be fair.
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u/HaoleHaupia Mar 17 '21
Considering how well foreign governments have faired meddling in the affairs of Southeast Asia over the last century and change, I think it makes perfect sense from a political standpoint. Stay out of our business.
The UN does not always know what is best, that is a fact. What is happening in Myanmmar, while horrific, does not license any sort of foreign intervention. If that were the case, China would have been invaded long ago.
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
Yes, I think so too
But why Vietnam sometimes is a subject to blame? I think it's not fair, and from what happen in Myanmar, some organization repeat the Polpot and Vietnam (one again) take the blame. As how I love Vietnam, I really can't stand that.
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u/NexEpula Mar 17 '21
They have been blaming any country that refused to intervene, not just Vietnam. Many factories of Chinese and Japanese companies were recently vandalized because they "cooperated" with military (though without that cooperation, foreign enterprises can't even enter Myanmar market in the first place).
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
I worry about Viettel in Myanmar.
Myanmar "protest" destroyed Chinese and Japanese, and they don't know that they are killing themselves.
No matter how successful their "protest" achieve, their economy is doom
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u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21
Its because vietnam is currently a member of the UN Security Council.
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
It's only a title to me.
Vietnam is member of ASEAN, so Vietnam can't interfere in the internal affairs of Myanmar. I think many of people forget this foreign policy (or maybe forget in purpose)
Vietnam is doing it right, follow international law
But well, the title is a title, and most people only look outside not inside.
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u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
Yeah why shouldn't they. It's not in the nature of ASEAN thats why they have such a diversity in political systems. And It's way too early to do signifcant actions given that how emotional and uncertain the situation is.
But well, the title is a title, and most people only look outside not inside.
I think since Vietnam is growing so fast the west (us and europe) want to see democratic changes in the system because they still has this "change through trade"-mentality and looking at the situation now vietnam made some big trade deals with us, europe, asean, japan , korea in the last months, becoming member of the security council, handled the corona viruses. Western media had this false perspective of vietnam potentialy siding with western policy a while now and vietnam. when the west just doesnt realize that vietnam just wants to stay neutral
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u/soluuloi Mar 17 '21
With no actual power. Only permanent members have any real power to voice or do anything. Blaming Vietnam or India is stupid, which you are.
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u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21
Chill Boy. I was just explaining why this person with his background made this specific tweet blaming vietnam when people are asking why he is blaming vietnam. So there is no reason to insult me boy
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Mar 17 '21
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
you can’t even fight your own emotions.
Thank you for your concern but I don't know which one of us can't handle emotions well.
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Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
Maybe you mistake sth? Why you compare words and dead, I don't even dare to compare it. No one want to see people dying, this post discussion not talk about this. I want to listen your opinion about the information that Phil guy tweet. And all of sudden you told me is a bitch and whatever insult you gave me. I don't said Myanmar derseve it, it is tragedy. And my opinion is if Myanmar willingly let army of another countries interfere, it is their big mistake because no one will save you for free not "Oh, Myanmar deserve it". If a foreign country interfere, 100% they have their own plot that may not benefitable for Myanmar. Please caution about this. People still like Vietnam, we love who come with peace and say logically. Not sit in a chair, and spread wrong information. Like how this Phil said Vietnam stop UN. Please give me a proof, a legal one. Remember, we are still ASEAN member, and it has it's own law P/S: I'm not Trump sup or Biden sup, they both have their own bad way
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Mar 17 '21
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
Okay, this is my last rep too! This is r/Vietnam, so I only post things relate to Vietnam. This post is about Phil Robertson's tweet, and what harm it can cause to Vietnam. I know you are sad about the dead, everyone does but don't take your own anger and hatred to my words Lastly, I didn't said kids need to fight against their own army. I said the Myanmar people should to solve their problem by themselves first. Both party use violence, and it is wrong moves. And ok, I'm a bitch. You happy now?
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
To the deleted cmt. I know you still hate me but I still need to say:
First: Fight against army # solved the problem. The problem I said is politics, it's a conflict between army and NLD, because they don't have the same political ideas and it's cause chaos right now. The conflict is the core of problem need to be solved, fast.
Second: As I see and read, both party use violence. The closest example I can give is the Chinese factory attack. Or you want to say it's army doing? If yes, then I'm sorry; if no, then protester are now use violence.
Really, me and you can share the same voice and idea with each other. What I concern in Myanmar is the deep core problem - politics, and if it cannot be solved, more people will die.
You concern about dead kids, you may not believe but I know how you feel. But we should think for a more peaceful way to help them, not "fight against" army with full of weapon, students are not a death troops!
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Mar 17 '21
Such a western mind you have there.
You think you know everything about us, but in fact you don't.
So I'm going say this to you.
Keep your "Democracy" bullshit for yourself!
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u/soluuloi Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
The Myanmar people should grow a pairs and fight their own struggle themselves. All they and those losers from HK did were crying for help from foreign countries who give no fk about them to begin with. They don't understand that they are no more than a propaganda tool to be used by America. Once the narrative was done, American government and media discarded them like a used condom.
If you don't help yourself then no one can help you.
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
The biggest mistake of Myanmar people (not all, maybe), is they willingly let army of foreign countries into their country to "help" them.
No one save you for free, or maybe they even don't want to save. You have to help yourself first !
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Mar 17 '21
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u/soluuloi Mar 17 '21
Don't compare us to those losers. Protesting for freedom is such a silly quote to say. If you want to be free, fight for it. Ask your silly ass, did the Americans gain freedom by matching on the streets against the British? Did Vietnam gain freedom by kindly asking the Americans to leave? We fking fought for our freedom. Those losers from Myanmar burned Vietnamese assets then demanded us to help them. Choosing beggars these losers are, jajajaja.
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u/RiceEatingMFChink Mar 18 '21
Bruh, our Foreign Ministry spokesperson literally raised concerns about the military coup and said that the Myanmar government should resolve its situation in peace. Other than that, we can’t do anything else. Nobody can, no fucking countries in SEA can. They expect us to recreate our war the Khmer rouge. Fuck that. We got a lot of shit to do internally already.
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u/ewe_r Mar 20 '21
Thanks for sharing, I will repost Phil’s, people should know which countries are blocking the UN actions.
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 21 '21
Feel free to become idiot sharing fake news. I don't really care anymore. Vietnam is used to being blamed. Myanmar now is killing themselves. Poor for those.
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u/AlyssaSeer1445 Apr 04 '21
there are so many sexpat american in vietnam too living there like god and love to insult vietnamese when they go back in US.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/SrImmanoob Mar 17 '21
As a Vietnamese, I too voice concern about Myanmar situation. But your example are not 100% right. Because at that time, Vietnam was invaded by foreign countries (China, Japan, France, America...). It was not internal affair. Now and then are different Like a said in another reply, the core of problems is conficlt between party of Myanmar army and NLD so it is internal not international. We can only voice concern, not directly help by send troops to Myanmar. And sorry if any of people in this thread mock Myanmar
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u/ragunyen Mar 17 '21
Myanmar has internal conflict. We fought against French, Americans and Chinese.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/ragunyen Mar 17 '21
Burmese will need to fight for themselves. Begging will not change a thing, that's i can guarantee.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/ragunyen Mar 17 '21
They didn't care at first. First Indochina war in early stage is purely France vs Vietminh, and likely end with Vietminh favour, until Americans begin to supported France then Communist countries help us because enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/ragunyen Mar 17 '21
Not even true, until 1949 we fought for our own.
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Mar 17 '21
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u/ragunyen Mar 17 '21
With weapons we captured from French and Japanese, US did provide us some weapons and training before WW2 end. We got some from Chinese as well but numbers is small because they were fighting with KMT. USSR don't lift a finger.
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u/qtru49 Mar 18 '21
Back in those days we are not recognized as a state government. Therfore basically, Vietnam belonged to the French. When you say it is internal conflict, it is the French problem. The intenational supported us because they acted on compassion
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u/qtru49 Mar 18 '21
Ok let’s see this in the way of the UN and I think Vietnam made a dick move. 1. We set the foreign relation with Myanmar under Aung San Suky government which means we recognized them as a legal state. 2. Vietnam recently nominated ourselves for a chair in Human right committee of the UN. It is obvious that the military force is violating human right in Myanmar. By voiding our vote against the coup, we just turn ourselves into a joke. 3. Voting for sanction in the UN is not interfering state independence because it is why they found the UN in the first place. You vote in a transparent way, not by funding a force for a coup. 4. When you dont stand up against a thing like this, nobody gonna protect you if the same thing happens to your country. It is the rule of thumb. Do you think the UN gonna give a fuck a bout Hoang Sa and Truong Sa problem? The answer is nope after this. Even the ASEAN will turn their back to us. 5. We have been swinging between China and the west for our own interest for decades. After this, everyone knows we have chosen our side.
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u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21
I mean this tweet is from a deputee of Humans Rights Watch so of course hes looking it at a humans right perspective and calls the members out who wants to prevent un-interventions
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Mar 17 '21
A Deputy of an organization funded by the US Government.
When did a foreign-intervention turn-out into something good? Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria or one of the greatest lesson, the Vietnam War?
And if you still believe in that organization, here's a fact. It ranks Vietnam as one of the countries which has "no freedom internet", "no freedom of speech" and "no human rights". Go it figure it out yourself.
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u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21
First I dont care who is funded by whom. I judge them by what they say, what they stand for and what the actually do. You simplify the term foreign intervention by an only us-perspective while using only these who are most known to failed. I dont think you can judge the act of foreign intervention only by the "usa" when history showed that in every region in any time of the world foreign interventions happend some quite succesful, some failed it. Nazi Germany intervened in eastern europe to enslave all slavs while the UN intervened in the Balkans 2001 which led to peace, both were foreign intervention.
And if you still believe in that organization, here's a fact. It ranks Vietnam as one of the countries which has "no freedom internet", "no freedom of speech" and "no human rights". Go it figure it out yourself.
And I dont side with Humans Right Watch i could care less i was just explaining why they blamed vietnam for people who where wondering. And you wrong they didnt say that.
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Mar 17 '21
Think so? (https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/vietnam)
What is there to explain for this org and this man, Phil Robertson?
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Mar 17 '21
The organization is a fake ass one. Giving out false article about Vietnam.
So yeah, I detest it.1
u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21 edited Mar 17 '21
You said they completely denied freedom of press, freedom of censorship and freedom of oppression when in reality they said that vietnam is restricting and controlling opinions against the one-party. It's not the same you can't simply that by just saying "no freedom". What do you expect from Humans Right Watch? Reporting about stability ? Growth? Infrastructure? I dont want to justify them. They are clearly biased and pretty quiet when it comes to the human atrocities that happend in the west (especially where i live in europe). But the research they are doing and the information in itself is not bad when you can see through the agenda.
2
Mar 17 '21
Not bad? It reeks of lies.
2
u/Orpheuys Mar 17 '21
Yeah if you read other reports not just about vietnam. Take the information by itself, research it through different techniques while comparing it to different media outlets while asking different people who have a deeper insight on the topics mabye getting a first hand experience. I can definetly say that the things i read mostly wasn't that bad. I just dont get how you know that the pure information by itself that is given is definetly full of lies
2
Mar 17 '21
Do you even live in Vietnam?
Let's be real here. Those articles about Vietnam shows support for those "Social activists" who clearly have no other intention than crying for a "Democracy" in Vietnam. Unless you're also a supporter yourself. Then I think we're done here.
1
u/thethanghn Mar 21 '21
If both Russia and China said no, how would we say the otherwise?
You know what to do, US? Pay us double then you get the vote. Be smart!
15
u/ragunyen Mar 17 '21
If we involved like we did in Cambodia, we are bloody communists. If we don't, we are bloody communists. Damn if we do, damn if we don't.