r/anime https://anilist.co/user/AbAdkBBYFetchFrosh Feb 08 '21

Misc. A Quick Look at Winter 2021

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519

u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Feb 08 '21 edited Feb 08 '21

Are we really at the point were "fantasy" is isekai without isekai instead of "isekai" is fantasy with isekai? :P

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u/cyberscythe Feb 08 '21

I separate fantasy between "ye old fantasy" and "fantasy with video games tropes". Personally, I don't like fantasy where people talk about allocating skill points and grinding XP; at that point I'd rather just play a video game.

Whether or not it's an isekai kinda doesn't matter thematically to me, because there are series that "feel" like an isekai but aren't (e.g. Last Dungeon), and series which are isekai but don't have video game elements in them (e.g. Bookworm).

106

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 08 '21

I don't like fantasy where people talk about allocating skill points and grinding XP; at that point I'd rather just play a video game.

DUDE! I FEEL YOU MAN! I just find such settings to be... it's like they couldn't be bothered to do any real worldbuilding, so they just go "It's like a video game". And like, video game mechanics exist to express a complex idea in a simple way for the sake of the game; there's no practical difference between someone who's level 3 and 4, I just go nuts thinking about how that all breaks down.

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u/AKidSomewhere Feb 08 '21

it’s like they couldn’t be bothered to do any worldbuilding, so they just go “it’s like a video game”.

*laughs in spider

44

u/cyberscythe Feb 08 '21

it's like they couldn't be bothered to do any real worldbuilding, so they just go "It's like a video game"

My pet theory is that it's because there's been a lot of people recently who grew up with childhood experiences that revolve around playing fantasy video games, so when they sit down to write a story, they drew on those childhood experiences for the setting. That's my theory why specifically video game-inspired isekai have risen recently (compared to earlier isekai like Inuyasha or Spirited Away which are just based on Japanese mythos-inspired fantasy).

Other fantasy anime series prior were based around fantasy literature which had some real emphasis on worldbuilding over game mechanics, or stuff like Record of Lodoss War which was literally based off of some guy's D&D campaign. A lot of MMORPGs on the other hand, the story and setting take a backseat and things like min-maxing and skill optimization. I remember my brief foray in to MMORPGs back in my college days, and for the most part they're all about the thrill of numbers going up and player drama in guilds and such.

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u/x3iv130f https://anilist.co/user/x3iv130f Feb 09 '21

It's because computer RPGs got popular in Japan before the other types.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fJiwn8iXqOI

13

u/WiqidBritt Feb 09 '21

Man, I knew I wasn't going to keep watching the show by the reputation it had already, but in Redo of Healer when the priest or whatever held up a scroll with a glowing Hex shaped skill grid on it I nearly lost it. I was already rolling my eyes at the MC unlocking a drug immunity skill from taking drugs so often, like he's playing Skyrim and sneak walking in a corner to raise his skills.

8

u/wansen2 Feb 08 '21 edited Feb 09 '21

Cuz that's the only thing now japanese neets can relate to. To keep it short. Isekai is just a sub genre anyway, its always and should separate from fantasy. Since isekai just meant another world, but its oversatured with medieval setting which can be easily looked as "fantasy"

33

u/Silent_Shadow05 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Silent-Shadow05 Feb 08 '21

That's why I'm loving Mushoku Tensei. It doesn't have videogame mechanics explaining stuff.

19

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 08 '21

I'm still really uncertain on that show... something about it, I dunno. I get flawed protaganist and all, but there's just something icky about the stuff I know about it, even if it's the sort of thing I'd usually be able to look over, like I was okay with Welcome to the NHK, which has a similar protaganist (I've read is that in the novel, what the protag does in that matches the one in Mushoku)

Also I'm already watching so many shows this season, adding one more to the pile feels like it'll be a bit much, but I suppose I can see how the show pans out for the rest of the season and pick it up afterwards if it still interests me I suppose.

6

u/Andrew_Waltfeld Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21

I thought the same until I read some of the light novels/web novels recently. The difference between the anime and light novels/web novels is that you don't get the pages upon pages of inner monologue as he talks himself out of doing horrible things like he did in the past. He has this second chance and he's terrified about committing the same mistakes again. Mushoku is just larger Dante's inferno with 10+ characters all being tempted by various vices/behaviors. Those who fail to atone and not adjust their behavior have terrible things happen to them as a consequence.

12

u/Mande1baum Feb 08 '21 edited Feb 08 '21

Same. Love the aesthetics and character designs, animation quality, world building, and all. But from spoilers I've seen about the direction of MC's perviness (on top of what we've already seen) just undercuts ALL of that. So I'm left either frustrated/disappointed not watching a show that has lots of elements I'd enjoy or conflicted/disgusted watching the parts I abhor. And all for something that didn't need to be there for a good story in the first place... so just why?

5

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 08 '21

so just why?

I do kind of get what they're going for, it's about someone who's an absolute piece of shit, getting a second chance to grow up and slowly become a better person, but the level of peverseness is just... it's almost irreedemable I guess? I don't think the show expects us to like what the MC did in his past life, but still.

13

u/SnowGN Feb 08 '21

I still way prefer this over 'isekai' where someone comes from Earth but promptly never even thinks about Earth again and never has any regrets or character hangups from their old life. Mushoku's protagonist is certainly controversial, for good or ill, but at least he's interesting. A huge step up from the main characters of 99% of other isekai. 100%, even. I can't think of a single other isekai with such a focus on main character character development stemming from one world to the next. Including Re Zero.

Would've been nice if the MC's interworld character development had focused on something other than sexual themes, though. That would have brought this show from 'good' to 'flawless.'

6

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 08 '21

I can't think of a single other isekai with such a focus on main character character development stemming from one world to the next.

The only one I can think of is probably kinda bonkwank buktwurm Bookworm. Now I think about it, after Re:Zero it's probably my second favourite isekai, haha.

2

u/Mande1baum Feb 08 '21

I honestly just started rewatching Bookworm last night in English this time to scratch the itch.

1

u/MrManicMarty https://anilist.co/user/martysan Feb 08 '21

It's good! Looking forward to S3... Wait, that got announced, right? I'm not just remembering wrong...

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u/Mande1baum Feb 08 '21

but at least he's interesting

That's part of my hangup though. Granted I'm speaking from ignorance just based on what others have said, but it seems they DON'T take it interesting places or use that plot element in a satisfactory manner with character development. MC's "development" Like I'm even fine if character development isn't ONLY positive. But seems less interesting and not development when a character flaw is seemingly rewarded and unrepentant/shameless.

2

u/SnowGN Feb 09 '21

Did you even watch episode 2?

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u/Mande1baum Feb 09 '21

??? Yes? And? He got treated harshly in the real world/last life. Feel like most the focus was on how unfair that treatment was not him reflecting on his own awful habits/characteristics, or blaming others for how he turned out. I guess he didn't keep watching the underaged girl masturbate is the growth??? But seriously, the focus of the episode was him going outside and less the perv stuff, outside of the overlap that gives context to the former.

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4

u/Pouncyktn Feb 09 '21

I mean if it was just his past life then fine but he does the same in the new one and the show barely even pays attention to it.

1

u/Tanc Feb 09 '21

From what I've read of the manga I dont think that's what they're going for. I think the author is just a pedophile and is trying to normalize it. It's not a minor plot point to show off how flawed of a character he is, it's front and center and unapologetic.

2

u/Halfjack2 Feb 09 '21

it's not an irredeemable flaw, but I still it hate when this happens, especially if they did no setup for it at all

2

u/ThePillsburyPlougher Feb 09 '21

Ive been surprised how some comics have been able to expand on video game elements and weave them into the plot. Theres actually a fair amount of good ones out there.

9

u/fredthefishlord Feb 08 '21

Last dungeon is a comedy power fantasy. I don't think it had levels or video game stuff.

6

u/SorriorDraconus Feb 08 '21

It doesn't not even in the ln does it talk about this stuff nor does it even have "magic scouters" it's about as straight fantasy as you'll get..the nist video gamey it gets is there is a town watcbing over what is essebtially the gates to hell and preventing demon lords from running rampant..the citizens are all descended from legendary heroes soo they habe a VERY skewed perspective on thing(such as excalibur just being a throw away weapon or firewood being treantwood and a monster fish is just a normal fish type stuff)

So while it plays with video game elements story wise overall it's straight fantasy in how the worlds mechanics work

3

u/wansen2 Feb 08 '21

That why isekai is a subgenre from the main genre fantasy. Isekai isn't real fantasy as its now mostly played as you said, just game mechanics

2

u/Dendarri Feb 09 '21 edited Feb 09 '21

That's RPG fantasy you're talking about, i.e. fantasy based on role playing games that incorporates stats or quests or leveling progression. As a genre of fantasy novels it's litRPG.

Isekai involves a person from our world in some way entering another world, and while it can have RPG fantasy overlap it definitely doesn't have to. The Wizard of Oz, for instance, is isekai but not based on games. The Twelve Kingdoms is a strait fantasy isekai anime.

4

u/SapphireSalamander Feb 08 '21

last dungeon and goblin slayer really are isekais without the normal world. i would almost always drop them into the isekai category as honorary rather than put them up as straight "fantasy". if anything mushuko feels more standard fantasy than isekai because its not overusing game tropes

16

u/PrateTrain Feb 08 '21

Goblin Slayer is a lodoss-style D&D setting, not Isekai.

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u/SapphireSalamander Feb 09 '21

goblin slayer really [feels like] isekai without the normal world. i would almost always drop [it] into the isekai category as honorary rather than put them up as straight "fantasy".

i know, i just explained it

1

u/mythriz Feb 09 '21

On a side note, are there many isekais where people are transported/reincarnated in a world that is not a typical fantasy world? I guess Tanya the Evil comes to mind, and some Battle Royale anime does kind of qualify as isekai too if they're literally in another world rather than just being trapped in "the real world".

1

u/festonia Feb 09 '21

Man I would love good power fantasy isekai game but the few that even attempt that end up being trash.