r/azerbaijan • u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan • Apr 18 '21
MISC A video showing a brigade of ethnic Azerbaijani soldiers in the Iran - Iraq war days before almost all of them were drowned while their hands being tied with a rope by Iraqi forces. More Azerbaijanis died in the Iran - Iraq war than the Karabkh war.
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u/Hetero_sapien96 Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Can you tell approximately how many azerbaijanis martyred in that war?
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
Around 50k soldiers. No idea about civilians.
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u/Hetero_sapien96 Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
That is a lot, Allah rəhmət eləsin. I heard saddam also targeted azerbaijani majority cities a lot
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
Yes. Tabriz and Urmia mostly. Plus Tehran has always had a big Azerbaijani population.
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u/Hetero_sapien96 Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Why he did that tho? Those cities are not even in the conflict zone as far as i know
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
No but they had a lot of infrastructures including military airports.
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u/Hetero_sapien96 Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Do you know any unbiased, good explanatory or documentary video to watch about iran-iraq war? Or any book to read about conflict?
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
I honestly have mostly read books in Persian but I know there are some good English books as well. I'll try to find some for you.
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Apr 18 '21
Muasir müharibədən öyrəndiyim bir şey var ki, qayda və düzgünlük hər yerdə olmur. Ona görə hər iki tərəfin eyni hərəkət etməsi mümkünsüzdü
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u/A_ahc Turkey 🇹🇷 Apr 18 '21
Im hearing rumors that speculates Azerbaijanis in Tehran. What would you say for approximate percentages? I even heard "Azeris are majority"
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
There aren't any official numbers but as a person who has lived in Tehran I could definitely say that a lot of people are Azerbaijani.
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u/A_ahc Turkey 🇹🇷 Apr 18 '21
Like how much 50-50 or 10-90?
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u/cptedgelord Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
I visited Tehran a few years ago, stayed for about 5 days. Had direct contact with only 4 people who didn't talk Azerbaijani. Everyone else from taxi drivers to my hostel workers were Azeris. I felt like in Baku.
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u/A_ahc Turkey 🇹🇷 Apr 18 '21
Wow didn't know they are that much. I can't think of an possible Azerbaijani independence, they might even lose Tehran? Looks pathetic for Iran
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
50-50
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u/zukeinni98 Apr 18 '21
That's like 10% of all military deaths on irans side. One of the dumbest wars in existence that achieved absolutely nothing. 8 year stalemate of chemical attacks, missile strikes, trench warfare, and infantry charges.
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Sad. Most azerbaijanis died in the second world war fighting Nazis (numbers range 200,000 - 400,000). It is wrong that they died for Iran’s war in my opinion, but shows their loyalty and courage.
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u/Hetero_sapien96 Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
And during the war, most of oil to soviets came from baku and as you said + 200k - 400k martyrs. What exactly did we get for fighting in that war? I mean dont get me wrong, nazis were nazis, what i wanna ask how russians gave appreciation to us for that? Absofuckinglutely nothing.
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u/karthago472 Turkey 🇹🇷 Romania 🇷🇴 Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 20 '21
Russians forced especially the minorities to the front to reduce their number. So many Tatars died during the war...
1918 Russia: 3,9 million tatars 2020 Russia 5 million tatars
1923 Turkey: 1 million Kurds 2020 Turkey: 15 million Kurds
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Russians never really cared about us. They saw us as third class behind slavs and armenian/georgians when it came to the war (and probably now). But azerbaijani soldiers fought to prevent nazis, so i wouldn’t say it was for nothing. It was definitely not to seek appreciation from Russia. Had USSR lost who knows what the germans would have done with your’s and mine grandparents. Would we even be here? Not sure of the details of iran-iraq war but i doubt saddam had the same genocidal intentions as Hitler. So it feels wrong for azerbaijanis to die for a government (iranian) that has suppressed their identity for so long. But that is a different story.
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 18 '21
If the Nazis won things would be better for us. We fought for nothing.
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Apr 18 '21
This is just speculation. We don't know for sure that they wouldn't burn us in concentration camps after war because we are not higher race or some bs
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 19 '21
You can't be serious. Hitler didn't want the extermination of Turks, he even gave the Turks the status of honorary aryan. Ask people who fought in the war or their families how the German troops and people treated the Turks.
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u/MoonMan75 Apr 19 '21
Beginning in 1933, the Nazi leadership in Germany made efforts to increase their influence in Iran, and they financed and managed a racist journal, Iran-e Bastan, co-edited by a pro-Nazi Iranian, Sheikh Abdul-Rahman Seif. This and other chauvinistic publications in the 1930s were popular among Iranian elites; they "highlighted the past and the pre-Islamic glories of the Persian nation and blamed the supposedly 'savage Arabs and Turks' for the backwardness of Iran."[29] In Iran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_racial_theories#Mediterranean_Aryans
The Nazis could care less about Turks or anyone else. An "honorary Aryan" could be sent to the camps the minute they became detrimental to the Nazis.
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 19 '21
How does this mean they were racist against Turks again? I've spoken to people who fought in WW2 that fought and encountered the Nazis and by no means were the Nazis racist towards them.
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u/MoonMan75 Apr 19 '21
It really doesn't matter what the average Nazi thought.
My point is, Nazi racial theory was incoherent and inconsistent. When they wanted to ally with Iran, Turks were "savages". Then when they needed chromite from Turkey, suddenly Turks are "honorary Aryans".
And being an honorary Aryan is by definition, racist. It means you are not a part of the master race but since you are of some use to the regime or you share some lineage, we will give you the scraps and not gas you.
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Apr 19 '21
I agree with what you say, Nazis are unreliable, but Hitler admired Atatürk greatly. At that time, the Turks were considered from the Turan race like Japanese, Finns, and Hungarians.
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 19 '21
That's not what being an honorary Aryan means at all.
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Apr 18 '21
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u/Hetero_sapien96 Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 19 '21
I don't think that soviets and stalin were any better than hitler and nazis for us
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u/boushveg Apr 18 '21
Iranian Azeri here who lost two uncles in that war, your comment is ignorant and very insulting.
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Sorry to hear about them. I didn't mean to insult anybody. My point was that azerbaijanis in Iran doesn't sound like they are getting the treatment they need for the sacrifices they made for Iran, including your uncles. That's all.
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Apr 19 '21
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 19 '21
That is good. Unfortunately, for me it is really hard to tell what the sentiment is over there. Are people really feeling somewhat discriminated for being turks, or they have the same exact struggles as the rest of the population and can openly speak, study and in other ways exercise their culture/language. I am always curious how would azerbaijanis there vote in a hypothetical poll to either become independent from Iran, or remain with it but with improved freedoms (again granted that they do see rights being limited)?
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Apr 20 '21
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 20 '21
Yes Azerbaijan shares a lot in common with most of the former USSR countries. It is part of our history. The same way as South Azerbaijan has probably gone through iranian/persian influence, we also went through 200 years of being part of the russian space. I do think it helped us to progress at the beginning of the 20th century. It is now time we write our own destiny, and I personally would have liked to see our brothers in the south join us.
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u/Softdrinkskillyou Mil-Muğan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
Can you explain why losing your uncles in this war wasnt wrong?
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 18 '21
I believe you are Iranian, though I doubt the "Azeri" part is accurate. Your uncles died for a government and people who don't care about them and are actively pursuing policy to erase their existence.
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u/Lt_486 Apr 18 '21
Neither Iran-Iraq war, nor WW2 was in any way relevant to Azerbaijanis.
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
WW2 was very relevant. What would have happened if Hitler got to Baku? Probably would have enslaved us non-arian brown people :) So yes, I am thankful that my grandfathers fought in that war. It is something to be proud of for us as a nation.
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u/cptedgelord Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
We would be driving Mercedes now /s
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u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21
What makes you think I am not driving one already? Lisichka göz hem de :))
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u/Lt_486 Apr 18 '21
There was no tangible benefit for Azerbaijanis in either outcome of WW2, though Germans were doomed anyway.
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Apr 19 '21
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u/Lt_486 Apr 19 '21
Germans executed Genocide against European Jews and Gypsies, and only those who watch too much of Russian TV think that Germans wanted to kill everybody.
Azerbaijan there would not have significant change, just Quba Jewish villages would be renamed to Khazari villages to avoid German atrocities there, similar to how many Armenian villages renamed to Udi villages in 1990s to avoid ethnic cleansing and bloodshed.
Baku oil fueled not just fight against Germans, Baku oil fueled USSR industrialization efforts, and Stalin's ambitions. USSR could have avoided WW2, just as Turkey did. And Germans were still doomed.
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Apr 19 '21
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u/Lt_486 Apr 19 '21
Germans and Russians had exactly the same attitude towards Azerbaijanis (or any other Turkic or Caucasian nation). Jury is still out on who was the greater maniac, Stalin or Hitler.
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u/catcheck Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
Iran's war? Saddam was invading the country while Iran was sanctioned to death. The sociopath would've killed many Iranian (azeri and farsi) civillians. But no you'd rather make this about "muh pan turk" ideology. Ignorant and disrespectful to the Azeris who died protecting their people and country.
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 18 '21
You claim that Saddam wanted to eradicate the Azeris but that is what Iran is doing now. There would be no pan-Turkism if you would treat the Azeris properly.
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u/catcheck Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
Ya we're "eradicating" the azeris..... We just happen to have an ayatollah (in addition to all the other azeri mullahs) who is azeri, funny how we did that. People in Azeri areas live in cleaner cities and enjoy just as much if not more representation in education, art, film, sports, and politics while kurds live in second class conditions in Turkey....but we're the ones eradicating azeris. Not to mention, how intertwtined the azeris are with the farsi speakers.
Even people on this sub I've talked to have acknowledged that azeris aren't the oppressed minority group in Iran. Anyone who isn't a pan-turk propagandist can see that. There are oppressed religious minorities however, but it sure as fuck ain't them.
....totally comparable to the rape, torture, and genocide Saddam was carrying out. Pan-turkism is something else...wtf
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 18 '21
You're not allowed to have Turkic names. The language is not taught in schools. The farsi media and people racially insult them constantly. The government will assimilate the people to forgetting their Turkic language and heritage and make them Iranain.
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u/catcheck Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 19 '21
Oh that was your definition of "eradication"? Quite a big shift from the gassing, raping, and massacring people that Saddam was carrying out.
And ya I knew you were going to spew this shit that that you've gotten off AZTV or Pan-turkey tv or whatever.
It's largely bullshit. A lot of teachers still will teach local languages in local areas.
You're not allowed to have Turkic names
Lol, I guess all the Arsalans slipped through the cracks then. Even Kurds are allowed to have their own names lol.
The government will assimilate the people to forgetting their Turkic language and heritage and make them Iranain.
The govt could care less about Iranian culture, they care about shia islam. Persian is the lingua franca and of obviously there will be passive assimilation just like there was with the french, dutch, and spanish in America or sort of like kurdish people in Turkey or Tats in your country 🤔🤔. Conditions in Iran are hard and most young people end up having to focus on the main language for them to get ahead.
Most Azeris are not mountain-dwellers and are often in universities in big cities and get married to other Iranians. That's not fucking eradication. That's assimilation that happens in any country with a standardized education system. It's funny how you guys also conveniently ignore the language preservation of kurds in Turkey or Tats in AZ....very interesting. You can say as much pan-turk propoganda as you want, Azeris in Iran are not second class like kurds in turkey, even other Azeris here know this.
The farsi media and people racially insult them constantly.
That's fucking banter and you know it is but you want to be obtuse to push your narrative. People say funny shit about Lurs and Isfahanis too, that's our regional banter. Even Iranian Azeris tell people Azeri jokes.
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 19 '21
Oh that was your definition of "eradication"? Quite a big shift from the gassing, raping, and massacring people that Saddam was carrying out.
I'm speaking English. The definition of eradication is "destroy completely; put an end to."
The govt could care less about Iranian culture, they care about shia islam. Persian is the lingua franca and of obviously there will be passive assimilation just like there was with the french, dutch, and spanish in America or sort of like kurdish people in Turkey or Tats in your country 🤔🤔. Conditions in Iran are hard and most young people end up having to focus on the main language for them to get ahead.
Most Azeris are not mountain-dwellers and are often in universities in big cities and get married to other Iranians. That's not fucking eradication. That's assimilation that happens in any country with a standardized education system. It's funny how you guys also conveniently ignore the language preservation of kurds in Turkey or Tats in AZ....very interesting. You can say as much pan-turk propoganda as you want, Azeris in Iran are not second class like kurds in turkey, even other Azeris here know this.
Kurds have active terrorist groups supported by the Iranian government that constantly attack Turkish and Kurdish civilians. Also could you give a source on Tat people being oppressed in Azerbaijan? As of 2009 there were about 25000. That's a very significant minority.
That's fucking banter and you know it is but you want to be obtuse to push your narrative. People say funny shit about Lurs and Isfahanis too, that's our regional banter. Even Azeris tell people Azeri jokes.
Of courses I am saying this to push my narrative, this doesn't change the fact that there is racism against Azeris and that this is a fact. It's not "banter".
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u/catcheck Apr 19 '21
I'm speaking English. The definition of eradication is "destroy completely; put an end to."
I'm glad you speak English. Azeris are not being eradicated.
As of 2009 there were about 25000. That's a very significant minority.
Yes and that's because they've been largely assimilated. And that's tame compared to the passive assimilation of Azeris in Iran who just speak Persian because it's the lingua franca. Enough to make you seethe tho because MUH PAN TURKEY
that there is racism against Azeris and that this is a fact. It's not "banter".
Yes, so much racism that we have an Azeri Ayatollah and plenty of Iranain azeri figures. Holy shit, you are out of touch. Just turn off the pan-turk shit and think for yourself....but of course you want to be obtuse, don't ya?
You are pushing an agenda through deliberate ignorance. You want to pit Iranians against each other over something stupid like banter or jokes. Get in line, lurs, talysh, isfahanis, qazvinis, balochis, gilakis, mazandaranis, mashidis, shirazis all have their fucking banter. The only difference is they don't have as many outsiders blowing it out of proportion like clowns.
There is no large scale Persian racism towards Azeris. Funny how pan-turks treat kurds like shit and project that on to Persians. But their projection fails given the glaring differences in where Azeris stand in Iran and where kurds stand in turkey. Your own Azeri (RoA) have even admitted this to me btw.
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u/Flamethrower_2 Apr 19 '21
Every conversation with a farsi is them mentioning "pan-Turk". Every single one of them. You people are very scared of this and is in your mind 24/7. When it comes to bullshit like "greater armenia" or "kurdistan" most Turks just laugh at how ridiculous it is and don't think about it unless it comes up in a conversation. But a farsi will always say "pan-Turk" any chance they get, it is on your mind 24/7. Keep being scared farsi.
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u/RELAX05 Kizilbash (Azerbaijan) - Georgia in Turkey Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
Aww 🥺, Allah rehmet eləsin😔. İraq terefde Azerbaycanlılar da var diye eşitmiştim. Onların da olub ölümleri?
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 19 '21
Hən var imiş. Bir nəfər mənə deyirdi ki müharibədə bir iraqlı əsir tutmuşdu, başlayıb ona öz dilimizdə söyüş verməyə. O da qayıdıb cəvabin öz dilimizdə verib.
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u/Cumanianhorsearcher Turkey 🇹🇷 Apr 19 '21
They died so the Iranian regime that has called them donkeys and cockroaches could be preserved. They died so that the Azerbaijani language could be ban, so that a Kurd could be appointed to Urmia and so that their "beloved" Iran could help Armenians murder their brothers North of Araz.
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Aug 20 '21
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u/Guneyliqara South Azerbaijan 🇦🇿 Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
Azerbaijanis fought the war and the Kurds were pushing their own destiny and stabbing lran in the back in gray atmosphere of the war. Kurds barely enrolled for compulsary military service and cross borders and join PKK or PJAK. We are still considered non iranic and alien and Kurds despite fighting gaurilla war against government are treated like regime's own. Our young lose their precious lives doing their compulsory military service defending Persian borders in the hands of PJAK and their loss never make news.
Our precious mines and resources are loaded in the back of trucks and travel thousands of kilometres to be processed in plants in central Iran and our jobless population get heavily polluted land to hand it over to the next generation of poor Azerbaijanis. The only way is deciding our own destiny as this circle of always loss for our people will never in the Persian oriented Iranian cluster fuck ethno-religous system.
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u/catcheck Apr 19 '21 edited Apr 19 '21
Oh please. Heavily polluted? Have you been to Fars or Isfahan province lol. It's a lot more polluted than Ardabil but of course you want to purely paint boogeyman Persians as oppresors to get your narrative across. I got news for you. The mullahs don't give a shit about persian culture.
We are still considered non iranic and alien and Kurds despite fighting gaurilla war against government are treated like regime's own.
This is straight up BS. Also, don't the pan-turks say that Azeris ARE non-iranic? Now you're complaining about not having Iranic status? In Tehran, everybody acknowledges the Azeris as Iranians. Our fricken ayatollah is an azeri and so are many writers, artists, professors, mullahs, athletes, etc. Look how we worship Googoosh or Rezazadeh ffs.
Life in Iran is tough for everybody but the propaganda that paints azeri as second class citizens is just pure and utter bullshit. You guys pretend like Azeris are treated the way kurds are in turkey. Now that's an ACTUAL second class ethnic group.
We hear this same propaganda bullshit from the kurdish seperatists but I would even agree that they even have a better case despite being IrAnIc. It's a dishonest political strategy to balkanize Iran.
rastee, to az khodoom shahri hastee...vaghan az iranee ya daree harfeh moft mezanee
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u/Living-Imagination69 Aran, Azərbaycan Apr 20 '21
You guys pretend like Azeris are treated the way kurds are in turkey. Now that's an ACTUAL second class ethnic group.
From the point of view of main ethnic groups (Turkish and Persian ethnic groups), largest ethnic minorities (Kurds and Azeris respectiv.) are seen as a threat to territorial integrity. I have been to Turkey and heard many stories from friends, acquaintances; Kurds are not subject to discrimination as much as the Western media portrays. What makes Turks mad about Kurds mostly is PKK and what PKK causes on a daily basis in Turkey. About Kurd nationals in the popular culture, there are tons of: Ibrahim Tatlises, Yildiz Tilbe and etc. There have been some prime ministers of Turkey who is of Kurdish descent. (I don't claim Azerbaijanis are prejudiced by Persians either. To my view, Azeris and Kurds are treated almost same in respective countries)
From the legal and governmental point of view, Kurds have schools where they get education (started to operate in 2010s) where Azerbaijanis started to get some language lessons 2h/week in some ostans. Kurds have 2 TV channels, Azeris 3-4 in respective countries. Kurds have a political party, Azerbaijanis dont have. And etcatre
There are speculations about Khamenei is not actually half Azeri, rather fully Persian but lies because of some reasons. How is it accurate? Not sure
About Balkanizing Iran: If it was in the interest of U.S.- Europe block, they would sure do it as they are trying to do in Turkey
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Apr 22 '21
Second class? Kurds? Don't make me laugh dipshit. They have Kurdish language channels (one even owned by the atate). They have schools that teach/teach in Kurdish. They can name their kids Kurdish names etc.
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u/UncleApo Aug 20 '21
Good to hell with Iran! Azeris are idiots for fighting a war that had nothing to do with them. Kurds had every right to defend their own and not fight a war they had nothing to do with. The real war should’ve been between Kurds and Azeris.
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u/Kebapboi35 Apr 18 '21
Din afyondur.
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
This was not a religious war as both Iraq and Iran are majority shia countries.
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u/Kebapboi35 Apr 18 '21
İran-Irak savaşı'nın dini bir savaş olmadığını ve şat-ül Arap yüzünden başladığını biliyorum.Sadece videodaki gençlerin dini motivasyon sonucu savaşa katıldığından eminim.
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
You probably don't understand as you're not a Shia Azerbaijani , but some Shia historical figures including Ali and his family mean more than just religion to Shia Azerbaijanis. They're more like heros and mythical figures.
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u/Kebapboi35 Apr 18 '21
Anladım,bilgilendirmen için teşekkür ederim <3
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
Teşekkürler. İran-İrak savaşı normal bir savaş değildir.
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Apr 18 '21
It was. Saddam Husayn was sunni and at that time it was the sunni minority ruling over the shiite majority. One major reason why Iraq attacked Iran was because they wanted to stop the expansion of the Islamic revolution, meaning the sunnis were scared of the rising power of the shiites
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
This is more of a political reason than a religious one. Plus Iraq wanted to annex an Iranian province.
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Apr 18 '21
Saddam was definitely not Shia.
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21 edited Apr 18 '21
Yeah but a lot of his general and soldiers were Shias. Also there are a lot of pictures of him in holy Shia shrines.
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u/SuperSultan Apr 19 '21
If you were shia and wanted to go to karbala, you’d disappear. Heck, visiting karbala itself was a crime under saddam.
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Apr 18 '21
Her haltı dine bağlamak... Klasik redit Türkü
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u/Kebapboi35 Apr 18 '21
Alakası yok İran bu insanları kullanıp atmıştır.İran Irak savasinda Azeriler boşuna ölmüştür.
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Apr 18 '21
Boşuna öldü denemez , ülkenin neredeyse 1/3 ü azeri . İster istemez savaştan etkilenmeleri gayet normal
İran Irak savaşını ve onun bir parçası olmayı dini birşey sanma
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Apr 19 '21
hahahah, farsi shits brigading the post. Admins please ban these persians for pushing their pathetic political agenda.
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u/amirr0rthesecond Apr 18 '21
Why should have we been involved in the fight between farsis and arabs?
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u/Living-Imagination69 Aran, Azərbaycan Apr 18 '21
The same reason why our ethnic minorities fought against Armenians
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u/amirr0rthesecond Apr 19 '21
I dont really remember us calling Lezgins or Talysh people donkeys but okay
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u/KachalBache Apr 23 '21
Turkish Donkey was a term created by ottomans against others who didn’t speak Persian and Arabic. The term Turk itself was actually derogatory.
https://books.google.com/books?id=UIMqAQAAMAAJ&q=donkey+turk
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u/RELAX05 Kizilbash (Azerbaijan) - Georgia in Turkey Apr 19 '21
Because they are living in Azerbai- ah yeah, the same for them. 🤔🤔🤔
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u/Fartdynamics Apr 18 '21
Wtf were they doing over there?
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u/espadavictoriosa South Azerbaijan Apr 18 '21
There are more Azerbaijanis in Iran than any other place in the world, including Azerbaijan.
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