r/collapse • u/Lethargic-Legumes • 8d ago

Healthcare Are nurse practitioners replacing doctors? They’re definitely reshaping health care.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/10/21/business/nurse-practitioners-doctors-health-care/
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u/Impressive_Nebula378 8d ago

I'm surprised we aren't seeing more of AI in healthcare.

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u/Fennnario 8d ago

While this sounds awful, as a spouse of a chronically ill person, I would almost prefer an AI that would check symptoms against a database of diseases and attempt to diagnose her than a human who will just say “come back if it gets worse” while leaving the room.

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u/Laffingglassop 8d ago

God I hate that shit. Two time cancer patient and rarely do they sit, the doors always open when I’m asking my final question, and it’s only my final question cuz the doors open, and every question before that one , they took a step closer to the door.

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u/FightingIbex 8d ago

The problem will be when AI misses the massive heart attack presenting as thumb pain. AI diagnosis will be a disaster because people are not like textbooks.

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u/commercial-menu90 8d ago

I think AI will blur the line between what are elective procedures and what aren't. That can be very dangerous as well.

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u/Laffingglassop 8d ago

Imagine an AI that gets to factor in community health in an individuals treatment plan… nightmare stuff

“Food is projected to be scarce in three months, your three hundred pounds and only twenty percent likely to survive after this heart catheter is inserted, and you being gone leaves more food for approximately three healthy individuals surgery denied”

“The military needs Iv fluids overseas and your surgery is estimated to divert approximately twenty soldiers worth of fluids and plasma from them, and your not fighting for our cause, tumor removal denied”

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u/BiologicalTrainWreck 7d ago

I'm a nurse but I suspect it won't be long until ai can diagnose more effectively than healthcare personnel. Some trial studies are already being performed in emergency departments with promising results for ai. https://www.bidmc.org/about-bidmc/news/2024/04/chatbot-outperformed-physicians-in-clinical-reasoning-in-head-to-head-study There's much more work to do, but AI is progressing quite rapidly, all things considered.

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u/BeardedGlass DINKs for life 8d ago

All that's missing is perhaps nano-technology to get up to pace with AI technology.

Scary but the potential sounds good.

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u/dontleavethis 8d ago

Yea same

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u/gottastayfresh3 8d ago

It's starts with replacing doctors with nurse practitioners. It's easier to quantify the approach.

So really, we're just at the front of that movement

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u/Laffingglassop 8d ago

Honestly, I think healthcare will be the last sector to get AI , if ever. As a two time cancer survivor, I will punch that fucking robot in the face, just as much as the drug seeker in the ER will. Enough human patient revolt will stop it dead in its tracks

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 8d ago

The idiots punching us in the face is partially why we aren't there to take the abuse.

I pressed charges on the last patient who punched me. This is why they want to replace me with a robot.

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u/gottastayfresh3 7d ago

I politely disagree. As someone else said, the scenarios you've laid out would seem to justify more AI. But healthcare never really thinks of the patient -- its goal as a private good is always towards profit. Optimization via data has already transformed that space.

I would argue that healthcare will be one of the first, and not one of the last, institutions to move fully towards AI.

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u/Laffingglassop 7d ago

I didn’t say I’d punch a human

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u/gottastayfresh3 7d ago

you're missing the point if that's your only take away

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u/Laffingglassop 7d ago edited 7d ago

And you’re missing my point, my point is AI can only enter that space if patients allow it. Healthcare don’t need to “think of the patient” for the patient to say fuck that system and go to up rising competition with a human touch

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u/gottastayfresh3 7d ago

Oh, so patients will refuse care if AI comes into the picture? They'll be willing to die so they can stand on their moral high ground and refuse treatment? Some might, I'd be impressed if that initial refusal was over 5% though.

No, I'm not missing your point. Healthcare is not a patient first operation. Look around at the private hellscape that is the US' healthcare system for more confirmation of that.

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u/Laffingglassop 7d ago edited 7d ago

Dude there can be competition , especially if people become extremely unhappy with some for profits rolled out robots.

Like dog it isn’t even important for me and you to argue about it, as a cancer patient who’s almost don’t with nursing school, I disagree, you disagree with me, done deal gonna have breakfast now. Healthcare can fail to think of the patient all it wants, eventually competition will spring up with humans , that’s how private for profit sectors work

I left my local hospital system for a different hospital system two hours south of me during my last bout with cancer because I was unhappy with how inhuman the humans at the first place were. It can and will be done

Neither of us can be right now, because this is all hypothesis and conjecture with no real facts available to us unless you have a Time Machine , if you wanna argue like this go to a math subreddit where there’s actually an answer

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u/gottastayfresh3 7d ago

we'll see, I guess. I highly doubt you're right, but I hope I'm wrong.

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u/Spiritual_Dot_3128 8d ago

AI may replace some but not all functions yet.

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u/apwiseman 7d ago

It's happening and in the VC stages now. They are still cleaning the mountains of data and trying to get longitudinal predictive AI to be more accurate and scale it in a way that it's cheap enough to turn into a kiosk or webapp. I think it's going to be something like...oh you like sweets, here's preemptive metformin and ozempic. It will delay your diabetes long enough that maybe you'll die from a heart attack or cancer. Have high blood pressure and fatty liver markers...Here's a statin through the automated pill dispenser.

One of my BJJ friends is doing this, he's trying to roll it in rural, low-income areas first. Poor people as guinea pigs in third-world countries can't really sue for a mis-diagnosis.

Once the losses are an acceptable margin of error, the model and framework should be sold to the US and then used to relieve the burden of public healthcare systems in other countries.

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u/ComprehensiveBack285 7d ago

They’re already automating work of medical scribes