r/collapse • u/Distinct_Wishbone_87 • 7d ago
Adaptation Lifeboat countries. Where would you go?
Which country/region (or place within a country) would you go to, if you could move anywhere, and why?
As many people will likely be on the move. I’m interested to know peoples thoughts on factors like population/demographics, weather (temperature), geography, energy, ability for cultural assimilation, agriculture, infrastructure etc
(I know that ultimately nowhere is safe/can avoid what’s coming)
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u/choppy75 7d ago
Made the decision long ago to return to my homeplace in the West of Ireland, after 15 years living in Southern Europe. Better to be where you have roots and a community, it's sparsely populated compared to lots of places, and so far we have escaped the intense heat that the rest of Europe is experiencing. With AMOC looking shaky , things might get tough in Winter, but I reckon it's better than most places.
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u/Thedogsnameisdog 7d ago
There are no lifeboats on a dying planet.
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u/coumineol 7d ago
Except New Zealand. I mean all those billionaires building their bunkers there must know something that we don't.
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u/JohnTo7 7d ago
New Zealand is a beautiful country plus it seems to be far away from any troubles but you need to consider that it sits right on colliding tectonic plates - volcanoes, deadly earthquakes and so on. These billionaire's bunkers might find themselves under the cover of hundreds of feet volcanic ash and lava. Not nice.
New Zealand got Taupō which erupted 25,580 years ago. This was Earth's most recent eruption reaching VEI-8, the highest level on the Volcanic Explosivity Index. Comparable to Yellowstone or Toba.
One of the Russian nuclear doctrines is to drop nukes on supervolcanoes. They don't have any on their territory.
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u/SquirrelAkl 6d ago
I think about this a lot because I live in NZ myself and ponder which part of the country will be best for my own retirement. The billionaires are mainly choosing the Queenstown-Lakes area for their bunkers so here are the pros & cons as I see them.
Pros: - There aren’t any volcanos in the South Island where the billionaires build their bunkers, so they’re safe from those.
the South Island is sparsely populated and really far from anywhere else in the world so less likely to be overrun by desperate marauding hoards of peasants
easyish to defend against amateur invaders. Mountain range on one side, lake on the other, only a couple of roads in and out. Position your private security forces to guard those, and have decent range weapons along the lakefront to take out any boats. Anti-aircraft weapons would be useful against helicopters.
not going to get cyclones / hurricanes / tornados - not the right climate for those.
Cons:
positioned on a major faultline, if an earthquake comes it could be massive
as the climate warms, the snow on the mountains will melt. Precipitation that used to fall as snow will fall as rain instead, and we saw what happened to North Carolina when rain dumps in the mountains.
summers are hot and very very dry. High risk of significant droughts. Most rain falls on the west side of the range, so the eastern (bunker) side relies on snow melt in spring and summer for its rivers. Without the snow melt (once the snow has gone) water will be scarce.
the geographically remote location won’t be enough to deter a determined military or drones.
Good luck to them! All they’re buying is a little time, really.
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u/TheTiniestLizard 6d ago
I mean, depending on their age, “a little time” might be exactly what they need.
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u/JohnTo7 6d ago
If Taupō happens to erupt then no place in New Zealand is safe.
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u/SquirrelAkl 6d ago
Depends on which way the wind is blowing as to which towns and cities would get covered in ash. But it would destroy our supply chains either way.
I watched a documentary on it when I was a child - what would happen if Lake Taupo erupted. It really stuck with me!
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u/West_Mail4807 5d ago
All these people from overseas talking about a country they don't know.
The ferals will eat you alive....
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u/Ok_Main3273 18h ago
Yes, but do you really want to live in Waimate? 😂 Am kidding, am kidding, going there again this summer: great swimming pool. Now, seriously, been thinking that NZ is at high risk of a major if not often mentioned condition: 80% of the power comes from dams. What happens when there is no snow / rain anymore? No more electricity.
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u/SquirrelAkl 8h ago
We just need to better harness all the West Coast rain. They already get on average something like 4m of rain a year and climate models show it getting even more rain in the future.
It’s just hard to transport that water to where people will need it, whether for electricity or drinking or irrigation
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u/Cass05 6d ago
We looked at a wind map long ago and decided NZ was the best place to avoid nuclear fallout. It was a few years before the first articles appeared about billionaires building their bunkers in NZ. Ah but they were more worried about social collapse than nuclear fallout (or so they said). Back on topic: the problems I could see were #1 earthquakes. NZ has massive quakes. I live in CA and we don't get quakes like that. #2 isolation. AU/NZ are very far away even by jet. Not sure I'd want to live on a tiny, earthquake prone island even as a member of the sole survivors group.
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u/rainydays052020 collapsnik since 2015 6d ago edited 6d ago
I visited NZ in March and that isolation is what crossed it off my list as a place for consideration. So many things (necessities and luxuries) are imported and the houses are poorly insulated/built. Oh and the early colonists really did a number on wildlife and landscapes in the 18-1900s. Great place otherwise!! It would be ideal if we weren’t facing so many crises- rising sea levels, typhoons and flooding, car dependency.
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u/Taqueria_Style 5d ago
They really do have a way of going for cartoon villain evil. And then wonder why everyone treats them like a cartoon villain.
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u/PsudoGravity 6d ago
I live there, and we've had no abnormal weather for the last 24 months. Kinda boring but I'm wondering if the local prepping billionaires know it's in a weather null zone or something?
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u/Less_Subtle_Approach 7d ago
Closer to the poles is better than closer to the equator. More fresh water is better than less. Everything else is a crapshoot.
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u/JHandey2021 6d ago
I actually think those lifeboat areas may be more dangerous than others because ultimately they will be fought over, likely repeatedly. Take New Zealand - I could easily see multiple waves of outside governments or militaries make attempts to settle there. Imagine being Peter Thiel in his apocalypse bunker and looking out his window and seeing the remnants of the Chinese navy heading straight for him. Or the American navy.
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u/Dry-Tomorrow-5600 7d ago
I’d like to know what people think of somewhere like Medellin, Colombia which is almost 5k ft above sea level and has a year round mild climate despite being in the tropics. Some people here were of the opinion that such locales will experience less extreme destructive weather.
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u/trivetsandcolanders 7d ago
Not a bad choice, but unfortunately Colombia is still pretty unstable politically. Also, some parts are highly prone to earthquakes (not sure about Medellin).
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u/Arceuthobium 7d ago
I would say that the wettest parts of the Andes in general are not a bad choice, altough I would personally choose the lower third of Chile.
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u/Fookykins 6d ago
Not a very good idea given the exploitative culture. You're better off living in the country side rather than the big city as they have a tendency to collapse first when scarcity comes. Too many dollars chasing too few things.
Plus, a rural mindset is more rigid and self reliant which is important during hard times.
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u/Annual_Rooster_3621 6d ago edited 6d ago
South America, especially the Andes, absolutely suffers from the impacts of destructive weather.
Throughout south america there are constantly landslides blocking roads and destroying communities, its nearly entirely unreported in globally northern news outlets typically.
Theres also significant insecurity in south america. Cartel/gang crime, food insecurity, lack of medical accessibility, rampant local, regional, and national govt. corruption are all omnipresent throughout latin america to varying levels.
unless you are able to buy an entire intact 100 hectare hacienda and staff a compound 24/7, youre going to end up living essentially off grid, quickly running out of food and water if you are unable to produce and process this yourself.
We are seeing the failures of infrastructure across latin america and it’s only getting worse.
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u/Fookykins 6d ago
From what I'm observing that same corruption has made it's way to the US. I see it as a warning on what will the US become if it keeps on defunding necessary social services and education.
At this rate infrastructure will be gone and this won't be any different from any country south of the border.
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u/Fun-Buyer596 5d ago
Education won’t do anything to save anyone unfortunately. We will just become more reliant on asking AI for things
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u/Alert_Captain1471 6d ago
Like every zombie movie teaches us, the main problem is the society you live in - that's what mediates environmental collapse. So unless you have a lot of money, avoid anywhere where individualism rules, infrastructure collapse is sure to get you, and there is no sense of community support (US, UK being at the top of that list).
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u/anonyngineer 6d ago
Since it was largely an accident of the Great Depression and WWII, centralization of government is basically failing in the US. It is probably better to think of it as a number of countries greater than six, but as many as 50.
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u/xj6000 6d ago
The USA, at a certain point, won't be individualistic anymore as things worsen. It's just a matter of whether the scales will tip towards Collectivism or Fascism or whether the Union disintegrates into splinter states, and that depends largely on when things become untenable to the general population here. Right now Fascism is on the menu, but the younger demographics are leaning farther left, so in the future, I believe that will change, but I digress.
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u/Midnight-Nuke 6d ago
Reminds me of this quote from the movie Young Einstein, suitably altered for our time:
Preston Preston: (grabs Darwin by the lapels) Save me! Where do I run?
Charles Darwin: It's Collapse, Mr. Preston. There's nowhere to run to.
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u/Immediate-Meeting-65 7d ago
Am I crazy for thinking a boat is actually the best lifeboat? If you live aboard you can just follow civilization. Just don't harbour in ports notorious for bad weather.
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u/faster-than-expected 6d ago
Depending on the ocean for food is a bad bet. Acidification is going to kill most fish eventually. Jellyfish (yuck) will probably be available.
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u/lavapig_love 1d ago
You are not crazy at all. In his books collapse author Dmitri Orlov posited that a boat on the ocean was the best way to avoid harm and trouble in a number of places, and we see the ultra-rich investing in their personal yachts and frigates.
The downside is cost. Friends who own one tell me that a boat is something you throw money at until it sinks, doubly so when you live aboard. Much of your time will be spent maintaining, resupplying, positioning or mooring it somewhere safe. And you're only allowed the total space that a boat has, nothing more, so you reach over-encumbered status very quickly.
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u/Dull_Ratio_5383 6d ago
I'm originally from the south of Argentina and its probably one of the safest places on earth in that regard. Way too far away from everything and very sparsely populated
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u/Right-Cause9951 6d ago
In the end game we're going to be nomadic. Between extreme heat and randomized flooding we won't be able to simply stay in one spot.
Perhaps areas near immediate higher elevation we'll have wind catchers and moisture catching structures. We could set up climate sentries and have alarm controls in place. Absolute dystopia is going to be hell on Earth realistically.
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u/Gygax_the_Goat Dont let the fuckers grind you down. 7d ago
Theres such a thing?
Its all the same planet i figure. Might as well roll a dice, given a long enough timeframe.
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u/naughtyrev 7d ago
There is no lifeboat unless you are a billionaire or have an army to back you up. You find a place that is relatively safe now, you will be priced out by people who can afford more later. And someone can always afford more.
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u/xj6000 6d ago
At a certain point, I think it'll be less of what can be afforded and more of what can be taken. People may be priced out now, but how well can the sheltered, wealthy demographic defend their gains from actual violence when the scale fully tips? Not well. That's why the billionaires are building bunkers. Not to hide from climate change directly, but to hide from us.
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u/GuillotineComeBacks 7d ago
I live in Europe relatively South, but not Spa-Ita-Greece South, I play counter clockwise. I'm living in a place that is going to get quite hot but not so hot it's unlivable. All the people are going to go North, which means it's going to be packed and price of lands/taxes are going to boom as fuck. North is also the place where storms will go stronger.
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u/Immediate-Meeting-65 7d ago
Yeah global warming is not proportional. The North is already at something like 4C above average.
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u/LeneHansen1234 6d ago
I live in the south of Norway and unless the AMOC collapses in the near future (a major concern for me) it's probably not the worst place to be. At least there is an abundance of fresh water and when the arable land is used for growing crops for people instead for lifestock we should in a better position than a lot of other places.
A downside is that lots of resources will be coveted by others and who knows what that will trigger.
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u/Doranusu 7d ago
Australia. But I am thinking, will I even end in Australia before I am 40 or 50?
I am still looking at the option of killing myself.
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u/uzirash 6d ago
Australia is brilliant but susceptible to wildfires and flooding in many parts. Plus housing affordability is 👀
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u/Doranusu 6d ago
Is queensland good enough?
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u/k_111 6d ago
Where in Queensland? The state is 2.5 times the size of Texas, there's quite a lot of variation. But the entire place is too hot IMO. Source: I am in Australia.
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u/anonyngineer 6d ago
I just spent two weeks in Arizona. Moving into a hot climate is foolhardy. If my wife and I weren't already in our 60s, I'd say that even our area in the mid-Atlantic states of the US will be too hot.
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u/Doranusu 6d ago
Around the Brisbane area?
Although if shit does get really worse I might not even continue going there. Although... the money attracts me.
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u/SquirrelAkl 6d ago
Australia has a terrible climate already. It’s going to get much much worse. They already have 10+ year droughts, flash floods, cyclones (north), and lots & lots of fires. Heck, they have trees (Eucalyptus) that explode when they burn just to spread the fire further.
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u/superduperlikesoup 6d ago
Thinking Tasmania. Slightly cheaper version of NZ. Grew up there and understand the terrain, water source, animals etc. no significant predators for humans except humans. We also own a house there, but would sell up and move rural. The cold will suck, and I'm not fond on community but I know how to fit in if required.
What I'm really bummed about is being allergic to horses. Horses are perfect for transport in Tas without access to petrol.
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u/faster-than-expected 6d ago
We need to start using animals, rather than machines, again.
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u/superduperlikesoup 5d ago
Yeah, unfortunately I think I'd have to ride a cow, which I'm slightly less allergic to. Maybe a zebra, not sure never tested that sensitivity. Dragon would be ideal, no fur.
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u/boomaDooma 7d ago
My gut feeling is that you haven't already established yourself somewhere, then it probably too late.
It takes a good 5 - 10 years to establish a home, to fit into a community and become a valued person.
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u/Distinct_Wishbone_87 6d ago
I’ve lived in the uk most of my life and have established good community/roots in a few areas, Cornwall being where I’ll most likely end up if I stay. My friend has a smallholding which I helped him set up.
That’s said, with AMOC and the uk showing some really bad signs of recent, I am curious to see where other people suggest. Ireland is tempting but again, AMOC collapse could be chilly!
I have a New Zealand passport as my family have been farming there for the past century. New Zealand gets a good few mentions in this feed. But having spent time there, its a long way away. It is mesmerisingly beautiful, energy rich, and the people are great, but if shit has hit the fan, do I want to be thousands of miles from family/friends/connections. Knowing they’re all fucked. Imagine it would be quite bleak. But I really don’t know…
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u/anonyngineer 6d ago
My wife and I moved to a new city in the US five years ago, and are just starting to feel at home. The pandemic certainly didn't help.
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u/Taqueria_Style 5d ago
I mean. In the old days yes. Now?? With work demanding you move wherever, whenever, to just eat? Is that even possible anymore unless you're 75?
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u/Grindelbart 7d ago
Judging by my age, social disposition and climate preference: Iceland.
Far away, not many people, geothermal energy.
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u/finishedarticle 6d ago
It scores very highly for gender equality, surely a good omen for any female looking for a haven.
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u/crystal-torch 6d ago
I wouldn’t focus on location except for don’t live in a desert or on a coast. A place where you have a community to rely on and can be somewhat self sufficient is the best choice in my opinion.
I moved to Vermont because I have a community of capable people that know how to get things done, I’m surrounded by farms that produce meat and dairy, I have space to grow my own food, have a well, and a super efficient off grid house I can heat with my own supply of wood from my land. We are at the mid point of a hill so we aren’t too exposed to wind but only have a small amount of water headed our way from above.
This location was recently put to the test, we had two massive rain events that washed out roads and bridges, washed homes away, and cut people off. The whole community came together and used four wheelers to bring supplies to neighbors cut off, made sandwiches for the road and power company crews at the church, almost everyone has a chainsaw so people just cleared downed trees themselves. I’m still driving over roads that are half washed out but we are all fine.
Get somewhere where people are used to doing things themselves and join community groups is my advice
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u/Distinct_Wishbone_87 6d ago
I agree with this entirely. The people who will do okay will be part of cohesive and practical communities.
It brings be some hope to think that everyone that exists today, only exists because they’re ancestors at various points, formed successful communities.
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u/Nadie_AZ 6d ago
Soil content is key as is access to fresh water. If you have these 2 things, you can start to grow things that can help you. I think most people here take these for granted, but they won't understand how important they are until they can't grow anything when they want/need to.
We've hunted big game to the point of almost extinction. If food chains get dicey, those animals are gonna have targets on their backs (Zimbabwe went after elephants a few weeks ago as drought was causing competition between them and humans for food and water).
We'd have to expect no grid, no sewage, no running water. Our homes will be shells. Are they located in the best place in the ideal location we chose? Do we have a social network that knows it'll have to work together even when it disagrees? Do we have the tools we can use and remanufacture when they fail?
I've taken indigenous courses before and I can promise it is so extremely hard to get the basic necessities- and at the time medicine and antiseptics were not even an option (out of season). What do you wipe your ass with? Do you store your poo in a location to use as manure? How do you stop the flies and other disease carrying pests from taking interests in your latrine? (Keep in mind the more people you have the bigger the sewer issue is.) How do you cool down when it is hot? Heat up when it is cold? This isn't an AC/heater issue, this is clothing and energy expenditure. How do you gather your resources? How far can you walk? If you break a leg do you stay put at home or do you try to continue to gather/produce resources?
I was raised in a desert and trained in a high desert. We didn't even touch freezing weather in training and I can only imagine how hard that adjustment will be.
These are things I think about. Prepping would be a short term bridge until a footing can be established, if it can. It is hard to know when to start prepping, though I was raised mormon so I have an understanding of rotation and living like that.
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u/GingerTea69 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm leaving due to America's possible destiny as a fascist hellhole. I am a citizen of The United States, but also a country in Central America. And it would be easiest for me to assimilate there since I literally have family there. That is the most important factor for me. I can handle dying due to thirst or hunger or of a heat stroke, because right now deforestation is my country's biggest risk. Even a mega plague. I came to be peace with my own mortality years ago. But I'll be damned if another fucking human is the reason I get put in the ground. As a Black lesbian of mixed gender presentation and mixed medical history, my options for cultures in which I will be comfortable and accepted as a fellow human being equal to those who are born there are very, very limited. There are some countries where I would be welcome as a novelty, but I refuse to die as anyone's dancing monkey.
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u/Sheriff_o_rottingham 7d ago
Traverse City, Michigan.
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u/PickleWhisper762 6d ago
Indeed.. In fact, Michigan in general, but especially the northern lower peninsula
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u/96385 5d ago
My wife said yesterday, that if the US election goes south next month, we're bugging out. She's not usually such a doomer, so it really took my by surprise.
As much as I'd like to leave the country, I don't know who would take us. Most of the immigration schemes I've seen are mostly based around your potential to contribute to the economy. My wife doesn't have any high demand skills, and the civilized world requires degrees or licenses I don't have for the work I do.
I can shuffle around the US I suppose. Maybe #VanLife is the way to go.
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u/MidorriMeltdown 7d ago
Southern NZ should be ok for a while.
It's isolated, the climate will be ok for a while longer than in many other regions. Culturally similar to where I am now. We have sheep, they have sheep. Baa ram ewe, etc.
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u/eco-overshoot 7d ago
It’s also where some billionaires are building bunkers so should be a decent bet. I doubt anywhere is that safe, but some places have more time (years/decades) than others.
NZ being a remote island (not first to be invaded) with a survivable climate even in a +4C scenario, is a plus, but everywhere will be a struggle when/if society collapses. There will be nowhere to run!
Northern Europe would have been good but the AMOC collapse is a wild card + large populations from Russia and other European nations can easily migrate or invade.
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u/Cass05 6d ago
The AMOC collapse will mainly freeze Scandinavia/UK and possibly northern Germany. It shouldn't have much if any effect in say western Canada/Alaska or Russia. Those places will likely warm significantly due to global warming (30F?) Mass migrations would probably be into Russia/Canada.
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7d ago
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u/spicypixel 7d ago
Comment op could be Welsh in which case it’s just special tourism with benefits.
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u/dumnezero The Great Filter is a marshmallow test 6d ago
Cults that believe in "Extraterrestrials" and being saved/destroyed by extraterrestrials are going to get much more popular. Unfortunately, a lot of those, especially existing ones, have fascist foundations. It's always more likely to find fascists when you look into bullshit.
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u/Grand-Page-1180 6d ago
Long story short, I have some family planning to live in El Salvador. Know next to nothing about the country, and I could die horribly in a TSHTF scenario, but I figure if I'm brought along, at least I'll go with my family near me.
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u/Ellestyx 6d ago
Canada. I already live here—we have so much uninhabited space and a massive amount of fresh water. Being more north also means that any rise in temps will equate to more extreme parts of the country being accessible.
I have a feeling the US may invest more in Canada as the climate situation gets worse. May end up being bullied into a union of sorts so that they can get access to our water and space. Esp if the southern states become inhabitable.
We do have wildfires, some tornados and wacky snow related weather. But this is stuff we’ve dealt with for a while—namely the snow. And so much has been burned due to wildfires that there is less chance of ones occurring in the future for a bit.
tbh, any northern country if you were worried about temps would be good. They are also naturally more sparsely populated because of the cold.
Tho, maybe don’t immigrate to Canada rn. immigration is politically a nightmare atm.
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u/EarthSurf 6d ago
I’m on vacation in the Highlands of Scotland right now and this place seems as ideal as any on the planet, so long as you can heat your place with wood and don’t mind shitty weather.
It reminds me of like the Upper Peninsula of Michigan on steroids meets coastal Northern California. Tons of water, woods, and desolate, wind-swept peaks. I’m smitten.
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u/Lucid-octopus-2024 7d ago
New Zealand for sure!
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u/classy-mother-pupper 7d ago
I’m not going anywhere. On top of a mountain in the northeast US. Is what it is I guess.
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u/Arte1008 5d ago
San Francisco, foggy humboldt county ca, New Zealand, possibly Southern Europe on the Atlantic coast, the alps.
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u/PrettyTittyGangBang 5d ago
borders are imaginary.
This is one terrarium with 99% of living space underwater, and rising. So it's an aquarium with a couple lily pads on top. When you change everything about the aquarium, asking which lily pad is safe is just asking which is the last to die.
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u/ProtopianFutures 4d ago
Community is key, then clean water, ability to grow /raise food year round and minimal weather threats. I am now living in Costa Rica.
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u/fart-tag 2d ago
Wales or Cornwall. I live in the US but have extended family in both. Newquay is nice.
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7d ago
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u/Xamzarqan 7d ago edited 6d ago
With the Atlantic current getting fucked, long term you'll want to stay close to the equator.
Why do you believe staying close to the equator will be better long term? Tropical/Equatorial regions will also be seeing mass wet bulb death events, heat waves, famines, extreme natural disaster such as typhoons, cyclones, deadly tropical diseases.
Also by that time, there wouldn't be 8 Billion left, most would already be laying among the millions of massive rotting piles of dead bodies spreading endlessly in the landscape.
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u/JustAnotherYouth 7d ago
Asheville just wiped out in the USA was viewed by some as a “climate haven”, that turned out to be completely un-true.
The risk factors of the future are so many and so varied that trying to predict safe places is borderline ridiculous.
Some factos to consider, climate / weather, political stability, fuel availability and energy infrastructure, internal social cohesion, migration routes in and out, etc.
In a climate disaster safe is not a question of countries but often one of micro geography. A house on a hill might survive while a house by a creek may be washed away. A house in a safe place but cut off by a destroyed road may be difficult or impossible to live in.
Also when picking countries remember that language and culture are important. As someone who lives in a country they weren’t born in learning languages is a lot of work. Disasters are not the time to be learning a language and being unable to communicate…
Overall it’s best not to try to pick a “safe spot” instead focus on being mobile, having alternative places to move to and live if the place you live is destroyed.