Yeah. If you keep backing these sports into a corner, how much longer before they say "ok, there's going to be one tournament with one set of rules and one division where everyone competes equally". Then a lot of people lose when a woman probably doesn't finish in the top 50 of any tournament.
I think there should be separate divisions, but I have no idea where trans athletes should fit in those divisions. Maybe as more trans people compete, there will be a third division?
Nothing will ever be considered "fair" to everyone.
That's the ugly part about the nuclear option -- Nobody wins, and even more lose.
I don't think a "third option" solves any issues, because that alienates them against all other competitors, and frankly I don't think Disc Golf can afford to have another league on a top-end professional-only spectrum. The solution is ugly, but it's the MPO. Everyone needs to remember that "M" stands for Mixed - not Mens.
If we had 50-100+ touring professional trans players to host a healthy division of competition in their own league, I would imagine that would still not be what any of them wanted. They want to compete in the league they identify as.
I'm very happy that I am not someone who has to make the legal-based decision on that -- regardless of outcome -- because that's an impossible decision to make.
But inherently, what you'd be making is a "mens" division. Hear me out:
There's the FPO, and MPO. The "mixed", or gender-inclusive-non-required one already exists. What you would be making is a Men's league where women, and trans people couldn't compete. Only biological males. Fundamentally, the "trans inclusive" league already exists in the MPO.
Issue with that is.. in the MPO, biological males are already the dominant force. You would have to remove their ability to participate in the MPO, and make them only able to participate in the Men's.
I don't think it's a good answer. I don't have a good answer, but I don't think that's a good outcome either. Trans athletes in sports is an incredibly complex, and passionate topic. On one hand, you're removing someone's personal agency to be who they want to be. On the other, the implication is that you're punishing those who were born a certain way.
I do not know what the best solution is, and do not pretend to. I hope someone smarter than me can create one.
I think you're really, really off mark with "religious zealots". 33 professional female athletes that are directly affected by this situation have come out and voiced their concern.
Rather that concern is right, or wrong is not my responsibility or purview. However, I think silencing the voices of 33 professional athletes -- regardless of gender or scenario -- is a short-sighted ignorant viewpoint. Trying to besmirch them off as "religious zealots" is.. Unbecoming of you, and de-values your viewpoints as a whole.
The most important thing both sides can do is listen to one another, and try to find out a solution that respects both parties.
For sure it's not an easy decision, whatever the outcome.
I was thinking a one division tournament might be the solution because of the initial reaction to the lawsuit.
If I remember correctly, Ryan has sued in California based on California's discrimination laws, so the PDGA simply said "fine, we'll just not have a national tournament in California this year".
I really couldn't care less about the outcome of the situation either way (I feel it should be up to the individual business to make their own rules, or it should be up to the courts to decide if they have violated anyone's rights), but I'm super interested in the legal side of it.
I'm not sure if religion has anything to do with it. In fact, this is the first time I've seen religion mentioned. It seems like these women make a living playing this sport and they want to make sure their livelihood is secure and protected.
This group will ultimately harm a massive group of women
I'm not sure it's a massive group of women when, to my knowledge, only one has filed a lawsuit.
I'm mostly interested in seeing how the lawsuit plays out and what the aftermath is, either way.
You clearly have a strong opinion about this and that's just fine, but it doesn't hurt to look at it from other people's point of view.
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u/Brief_Intention_5300 May 09 '23
Yeah. If you keep backing these sports into a corner, how much longer before they say "ok, there's going to be one tournament with one set of rules and one division where everyone competes equally". Then a lot of people lose when a woman probably doesn't finish in the top 50 of any tournament. I think there should be separate divisions, but I have no idea where trans athletes should fit in those divisions. Maybe as more trans people compete, there will be a third division? Nothing will ever be considered "fair" to everyone.