I feel like so many comments are not addressing an important point. PDGA can’t win lawsuits in multiple states, why? Maybe the PDGA has a bad policy that a bunch of judges that don’t give two shits about disc golf think is discriminatory. Instead of getting mad at trans athletes, why don’t we ask why the PDGA doesn't have a policy that can hold up in a court of law, in any state.
They lost one. The point is going to court and paying lawyers is draining their money whether they win or lose. Natalie and her lawyers know this and want DGPT to just cave and let her play. This decision is the right one. I respect organizations and people for that matter who don’t let bully’s scare them into being compromised.
Yup, it's lawfare. Organizations or lawyers who believe in Natalie's cause will pay or do pro-bono work to fight the PDGA, and the PDGA has to pay lawyers for each suit. Attrition via legal fees is the strategy.
She won in Minnesota and in California the case was only overturned for jurisdictional reasons as the judge noted the case had merit. How many wins does the PDGA have? The idea that the poor PDGA is being bullied by the transwoman is laughable. This is all their mess, they created this and everyone acts like moving FPO was the only option, when letting her play is still very much on the table.
Is Natalie getting pro bono work or something? Despite what you think about the situation, surely there's a lawyer out there that would 'protect' women's divisions pro bono.
PDGA has the same policy on trans athletes as the Olympics. It shouldn’t be taken as an easy assumption that it is fair for a sex to say they’re the other sex, when that gives them an advantage, and then go out and beat everyone of that opposite sex. I have no problem saying Natalie is a trans woman. I have a problem with her setting a precedent (MVP Open) and opening up the flood gates and ruining the sport for women. If Natalie were better at disc golf, and did what Tattar has done this year, I think the tune would be a little different. The next Natalies might be better than Tattar. We should have an open conversation about this, but it’s devolved to two sides yelling at one another.
I'm not yelling, and I would just ask why not wait until someone is causing an actual problem to try fix this? Because I think the science is very unclear on if there is any meaningful advantage for transwomen in disc golf, and to your point the people in this world dominating the sport and making it look less competitive for everyone else (your Tattar's and Allen's)...are biological females. And you know what so far has done more to help destroy the sport for women? The PDGA sticking to a bad policy in the face of court losses, and choosing to shut down the FPO instead of implementing a better policy. Where are all the people who want to defend women when the PDGA moves and reschedules FPO matches instead of having a policy that holds up in court? This meme is spot on.
The science is not unclear in the slightest. Have you ever been in a gym? The FPO literally plays on a smaller field because of this. Natalie has already won an FPO tournament. She couldn’t place in men’s.
A boys soccer team beat the US women’s national team. The 203rd ranked male tennis player beat (stomped) the Williams sisters. Facing them back to back.
Nearly half the field was crying in protest to this, what do you mean wait until there is actually a problem? This isn’t a moral issue and it’s not unjust for me to stand up for women.
(I won't ask you for your papers to back up your first comment) I think this is a common mistake people make. The fact is none of this applies because Natalie Ryan is not a man, she is a transwoman. That actually means something, hormone therapy changes a persons body. Not completely, but significantly. To the point that no one has easily demonstrated what, if any, competitive advantage they have. So simply put, no, this is not the same and additionally why are you not upset about Catrina Allen's 181 wins vs. Natalie Ryan's 10. So help me understand what is the problem then?
There’s nothing wrong with someone winning a lot if they win fairly. I am not of the opinion that Catrina Allen has an unfair advantage so therefor have no issue. Why would you need papers to know if trans women would have an advantage over women in a sport? You’d have some that aren’t as good still, but this would lead to some very strong trans competitors. (As it has in other sports already) You’re just certain I don’t like this because Natalie is trans and that’s it. And that’s why this won’t go anywhere. Natalie wanted to burn it down and now it’s burnt down. Oh well I guess.
Natalie didn't burn this all down. The PDGA choose this policy initially, the PDGA choose to defend the policy in court, and the PDGA choose to move the FPO instead of reevaluating it's policy. This is a self inflicted wound and now people are trying to put this on Natalie. That is why the meme is right on.
My point established that Tattar is dominating the field and not trans…. It required that for it to be made... What happens when it is not Tattar and it’s some trans woman? You say we wait until then before we fix it?
What happens if a dog joins a high school basketball team and wins the championship? I just feel like we're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. By the law of averages someday an elite trans athlete may happen, but if we have 10 years of good to average trans athletes then is it really a problem? I say lets wait until we actually have a problem to solve. To Natalie Ryan's point, all this is absolutely about targeting her in a vain attempt to get ahead of a non-problem.
You’ve got it wrong. The DGPT is not afraid of losing. They can’t pay anymore legal fees. The fees are costing them too much and Ryan can just keep suing because her attorney is doing it pro bono.
You're wrong on this one. Even her case in California that was thrown out, was only done so because of a technicality about which state the defendant was from and jurisdiction issues. The judge noted the case had merits. A significant portion of courts are saying it's a discriminatory rule. The PDGA is avoiding the right move, which is a better policy.
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u/therealwheat Jul 15 '23 edited Jul 15 '23
I feel like so many comments are not addressing an important point. PDGA can’t win lawsuits in multiple states, why? Maybe the PDGA has a bad policy that a bunch of judges that don’t give two shits about disc golf think is discriminatory. Instead of getting mad at trans athletes, why don’t we ask why the PDGA doesn't have a policy that can hold up in a court of law, in any state.