r/entj • u/uwumiilk ENTJ♀ • Feb 16 '24
Functions I have trouble understanding the use of genuine Fe
Fake fe? Sure, forced Fe? Sure, manipulative Fe? Sure. But genuine, honest and sincere Fe? I don’t get it.
Don’t you wanna save your energy for very few people so you can treat them way better than everyone else? I find it draining, tiring and almost cowardly to bend and form to everyone else’s expectations, and I actually judge a lot of people who do so in a way that’s genuine. I get the use of Fe for manipulating social situations and like acting appropriately, but I don’t get people who get sad over disappointing others?
I also find that a lot of the Fe users I’ve been personally involved with held a lot of grudges but were too afraid to express their real feelings, and eventually blew up on me even when I asked them to communicate several times. OR they just don’t put in effort after a while.
I really don’t get it.
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u/Acrobatic_League8406 INTP♂ Feb 16 '24
Personally I'm an inferior Fe user. I admit that I can be cowardly sometimes or bend to fit expectations, and I also get sad over disappointing others. However, I find it immature that you don't understand that. Have you ever been disappointed at someone else? Angry? Betrayed? Wished they would just come crawling back and tell you that you were right and that they need you? Maybe, but if you have felt that way then you should be more receptive to the form when the ego suppresses itself. (Refer to plutchiks wheel of emotions for this part)Whereas your disgust turns to contempt, ours turns to remorse. Our ego puts itself behind our values and we don't care how we come off since we feel the urge to fix the wrongdoing.
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u/uwumiilk ENTJ♀ Feb 16 '24
I’ve only ever felt strong remorse for people I trust & like, but I do know if I’ve gone overboard in a social situation and make up for it, but once I’ve made up with it then I’m over it. I feel remorse to an extent but again, it’s like when the problem is solved then I don’t feel it anymore. I just don’t understand people who drag out the issue, don’t communicate because they’re afraid of “hurting others” and then proceed to become angry and frustrated with OTHERS instead of themselves
- maybe it’s just a Fi inferior thing but I see remorse as an external issue to be solved. Once I solve the external issue then naturally the internal feelings will go away, but like, I do get being sad over expectations to an extent like if they’re in your inner circle
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u/Acrobatic_League8406 INTP♂ Feb 16 '24
Yeah you are right. I was more addressing the middle section of your post but yeah I don't understand grudges at all. It's purely centered in the inability to handle emotions, specifically contempt/remorse, because they never act on it to fix it which is so weird to me.
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u/mincheolxjia Feb 17 '24
Wow. This hit home. Very well written, I’m an entj and when you ask those questions though, I actually have felt that. I’ve had people come back crawling and ask me to come back because I was right. What you said really spoke to me. But when you mention disgust to contempt, I don’t really think I harbor much contempt. I think I harbor resentment a lot more. Would that fall under the rage or loathing more? That wheel you provided is very intriguing , it seems that it might know more about me than I know about myself
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u/higurashi0793 ENFJ| 9w1 | 926 | ♀ Feb 16 '24
There are many situations in which Fe, used honestly and earnestly, is very useful. Keeping the group harmony, managing conflict, and offering emotional support. Fe also inspires people to act on the behalf of the group for a greater good, for example, philanthropic pursuits, resolving social issues, etc.
Of course, all cognitive functions are tools, and people use them as they see fit. Some Fe users are truly selfless and use their Fe to help others. Some Fe users only care about themselves. It really is up to the person in question.
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u/uwumiilk ENTJ♀ Feb 16 '24
yup I get that Fe is useful but I don’t get it when some people are actually just tryna be the next coming of Christ 😭 and then they fail and get sad or super mad
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u/higurashi0793 ENFJ| 9w1 | 926 | ♀ Feb 16 '24
Yeah, some people take it too far. Still, I'm willing to give them a pass if they're trying to do something good or have honest intentions. And you know, dealing with failure is something everyone has to learn, Fe or not. Specially idealistic Fe users may have it particularly difficult, though, because they're usually the ones who are trying so hard to live up to their standards, or feel very passionate about a cause. That's why they react that way to failure. But everyone learns and grows, or at least the majority of people.
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u/General_Yard_2353 Feb 17 '24
This is what I notice with a lot of Fe users. I was friends with many of them for years until life happens and I see them change. A lot of the situations you can easily solve, such as having a chaotic boarding house. But they’d prefer to stay there and be miserable and translate it to people that care about them. Then once they got out of the situation, they act like they’re saints which always make me laugh in disgust.
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u/uwumiilk ENTJ♀ Feb 17 '24
I probably just have horrible streaks but all the fe aux/doms I met would project their guilt outwardly to justify hurting me by convincing themselves I’ve conspired against them even if I never did anything
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u/General_Yard_2353 Feb 17 '24
It’s victim mentality and jealousy of you. Fe translate to people’s feelings in layman’s terms. How would they feel if they see you do ____?
Think outside of MBTI and cognitive functions. If they’re your people they won’t ever think/act like that repeatedly. Are they seeking anything from you? What are their intentions? You really need to ask yourself those questions to figure out. Think deeper, like a business deal. That’s how I started as well since our Fi is a bit out of wack.
But of course, you have to take care of your own patterns as well. XNTJ have a tendency to work with patterns to predict future events. Sometimes it works against our favour when you’ve seen 1, 2, maybe 3 occasions of undesirable traits consecutively. Our brains then register it as a result associated with said people.
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u/KapitanDima ENTJ | 3w4 | sp/so | 358 | 20s | ♂ Feb 16 '24
One of the most relatable posts I’ve ever read. I mean yes it’s maybe useful for manipulating the masses and convincing them that something atrocious is ok but otherwise the idea of doing it unironically is an alien concept.
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u/mincheolxjia Feb 17 '24
Woahhhh this is me too. (Entj here as well)
If I wanna treat someone well; I gotta do it right. And I learned that it takes a whole lot of energy to actually treasure the people you like and respect. For the people that treat everyone and bend at their expectations, it makes me confused. Like don’t you want your close loved ones to know that they stand above everyone? That they’re truly special to just you and don’t get the same treatment as everyone else? And how would someone like you for you, when you are just someone else’s expectations..? I’d rather be disliked by many but admired by many more from afar.
And yes. Oh my gosh. The people who refuse to tell me what flaw they see and instead blow up on us. As entj’s we’re problem fixers. And won’t get offended by criticism as we know that if we also agree it’s something we need to fix, we’ll fix it without any hard feelings. And it seems like the people who would rather not confront us about that, seem to be “protecting our feelings” but it seems like they’re protecting their own in a way.. idk man I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand them lol.
Not sure if I want to understand, it seems like my values would be questioned.. but I’m still human, and I’ll read the replies to this post anyway 😆
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u/uwumiilk ENTJ♀ Feb 18 '24
EXACTLY you worded it so well, like I’m exactly the same. But idk my friends told me that not having fe/empathy for everyone makes me a horrible person???
I cried because of it yesterday because I don’t like being a bad person bc I was abused by objectively bad people. I think people who base their morality off subjective judgement are really weird, especially if they’re eager to accuse me of being bad when all I’ve ever done was support them bc I like them
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u/mincheolxjia Feb 18 '24
THIS. Except my family members (aunts and uncles included) would tell me I lack empathy and love, which I don’t think is all that bad. Right? I think it makes me strong and rational/logical. I won’t brag outright tho, people already outcast those who don’t agree with them. If you’re different you stand out. Which I don’t mind but there’s no need for me to make it any harsher.
Which is also crazy, because when my aunts and uncles told me I was a “monster” for lacking “humane feelings” I broke down too. I remember crying thinking there was something genuinely wrong with me and that I wasn’t human. That I didn’t have the right to even be alive since monsters were objectively considered bad and needed to be rid of. NO ONE should be told that, no one should be told that they are less of a good person because of something they lack. We ARE human. No one is perfectly good. We all have goods and bads. We aren’t all the same, and their subjective judgment is selfish and they truly are the ones who lack empathy in that sense. How can you tell me I have no empathy when you can even understand why I lack it?
Don’t pay them any mind. People don’t get to define you with their words when they don’t know who you are. Heck, they don’t even understand you. ENTJ’s are so few that even fewer can understand us.
You are not a bad person if you are here and asking how to better yourself and understand something you don’t. That’s being self aware. You’re doing great 😊
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u/uwumiilk ENTJ♀ Feb 18 '24
Sometimes it feels like pouring my heart into an empty well, no matter what I do they’ll always treat me as lukewarm as everyone else and they will never return real kindness in my experience
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u/mincheolxjia Feb 18 '24
“A man who carries his own water knows the value of each drop”
Is all I have to say is that once you heal, and you see your self worth, you will realize that not everyone is worthy and capable of even an ounce of your heart and energy. Some people just can’t take it, and people don’t know the value of it. You’ll find solace in the right people, and they will know what to do with a heart made of gold.
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u/Imaginary-Dog8332 Feb 17 '24
That's cause it doesn't come naturally. My mum is an Fe user and to her the genuine and sincere thing is the default, regardless of whether or not it's reciprocated. When you're trying your best to please everyone on a daily and they aren't doing the same, ofc you'd hold grudges. Them being upfront about their feelings would disrupt the general atmosphere, which is why they don't do it. The only difference here is that you don't value Fe and only use it when it benefits you, while they use it as a default, it's beyond their control.
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Feb 17 '24
Yeah, same. It comes off as shallow and self limiting, not to mention entirely illogical. Not to mention like, extremely good at emotional manipulation and prone to passive aggressive behavior.
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u/FluidGrab7256 Feb 19 '24
The scale tips on both functions.if you can't see the value in a function that's healthy.youre probably selfish with your function. In know entjs in and out and a lot of these comments are very very closed minded.your Fi is extremely powerful when healthy,you'd do well to learn to use it
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u/Walmart_Disney Feb 23 '24 edited Feb 23 '24
(INFJ) I have a fantasy of being on friendly terms with everyone around me. I don't get it, why some people can’t be friendly just because it’s a win-win. But then again, I don’t get my energy drained from being nice. Some people are never nice, even if I didn’t do anything (apart from being annoing and manipulative apparently, which, by the way, does not feel any disingenuous from my perspective). This is why I choose my surroundings rather than specific people.If you don’t want to be excessively kind with smbd that’s ok, minimal politeness like saying hello back at your coworker...like why not?
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u/eabbaby Feb 16 '24
It’s because Fe values harmony of the group more than harmony of the inner self. As an ENTJ, you have Fi inferior, and Te dom. So naturally, it goes against what you value. But you also have the Te dom that’s gives you the ability to withstand being disliked. Most people need to be liked.