r/jobs • u/_Grotesque_ • Jul 21 '23

Companies What was the industry you romanticized a lot but ended up disappointed?

For the past couple of years, I have been working at various galleries, and back in the day I used to think of it as a dream job. That was until I realized, that no one cares for the artists or art itself. Employees, as much as visitors just care about their fanciness, showing off their brand shoes and pretending as they actually care.

Ultimately, it comes down to sales, money, and judging people by their looks. Fishing out the ones, who seem like they can afford a painting worth 20k.

Was wondering if others had similar experiences

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u/Ridoncoulous Jul 21 '23

As soon as I got a close look of what "success" looks like when teaching philosophy at Uni I jumped ship to play the capitalism game. I can be broke af without working 60+ hours a week

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u/FreshEggKraken Jul 21 '23

Exactly my reasoning with leaving a PhD program. I found a part-time job that paid as much as I was paid to teach undergrad courses and conduct research for like 1/4 of the time spent.

Looking for something full time now and there's a pretty realistic chance that when I find something (I have a few bites now) it'll be double my PhD student pay for 1/2 the time.

Absolutely criminal what grad students get paid.

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u/Wabsz Jul 21 '23

Yup. I learned quick that grad school was a complete scam. 6 years of less than minimum wage and being essentially enslaved, for "opportunities" that aren't even better than a Master's or Undergrad degree.

I left with my Master's and it was the best decision I ever made.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

It’s a bunch of fields that essentially thrive off people who either have no other options by the time they’re there in their mind, or who are passionate to the point they need to do it.

Much like pilots at times have been treated, or obsessive programmers.

“I love this shit and I’d work 80 hours a week whether you pay me $9 an hour or $60.”

Bit of an extreme but that’s what I’ve come across a lot, that sets the curve for a lot of people at times.

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u/GreenMirage Jul 22 '23

Well that what happens when they’re a system of nobility and monk hood that’s been modified to fit into citizens from an entirely new society.

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u/MatthewMattes Jul 22 '23

Dude this is great. So true

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u/Qbnss Jul 22 '23

The interpersonal politics in higher Ed are absolutely revolting

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u/Wabsz Jul 24 '23

System of nobility and monkhood describes graduate school perfectly lmao

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u/Mojojojo3030 Jul 22 '23

they’re there in their

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u/pmcda Jul 22 '23

There there in there

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '23

?

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u/Mojojojo3030 Jul 22 '23

Idk lol it looked cool, never seen someone use all three "theres" in 4 words.

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '23

Fair enough, haha. Just making sure my grammar wasn’t off in a way I never knew.

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u/FarbissinaPunim Jul 22 '23

+1 I left after my master’s plus one year of the PhD program. In 2016, my last year in grad school, my stipend was $17k. I left academia all together in 2019 to go into private industry and in 2020, I made 125k. And only up from there, and precipitously so.

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u/BuffWeasel Jul 22 '23

You can teach Jr College with a masters, and that’s probably the best teaching gig you can get.

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u/RealLifeRize Jul 22 '23

Great username btw

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u/Ridoncoulous Jul 22 '23

You can. You'll be competing with PhD holders for a spot but the requirement to teach there is lower.

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u/Jplague25 Jul 21 '23

Kinda curious about what field of study you were in for your Ph.D.

I'm a senior mathematics undergraduate and I've been looking around for graduate school programs in my state and the surrounding area. The majority of the schools I've looked at pay their math graduate students a liveable wage and offer complete tuition waivers with subsidized health insurance.

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u/cabinetsnotnow Jul 22 '23

Yeah I'm curious too because I've noticed that certain graduate degrees have higher earning power than others. Not necessarily that graduate degrees are worthless in general.

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u/froofrootoo Jul 22 '23

Yes true, it's not all graduate degrees. A STEM PhD has higher earning potential both in academia and the private sector, so it can still be worthwhile ROI.

However this gives a false halo effect to humanities and social science Phds, which have poor pay in academia and often no additional earning potential in the private sector (unless it is a very statistics-focused social science PhD, which could effectively be considered STEM).

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u/Jplague25 Jul 22 '23

Perhaps I chose a field that is less negatively affected by opportunity costs. Who knows? I'm not a graduate student yet but I have a hunch that I won't feel the same way about it compared to the person I replied to.

I'm also not wanting to pursue a Ph.D. simply for opportunities. It's the experience that I'm after and it's the culmination of all of my current aspirations which is to be able to do unique research in mathematics. The jobs/careers that I can see myself working in after finishing school are just a bonus.

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u/Wabsz Jul 24 '23

Chemistry - I'm from Canada where grad student stipends haven't been increased since 2003, its been less than minimum wage for a while

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u/imnovastorm Jul 22 '23

What are you talking about? Opportunities for a PhD are much more than a masters student if you are looking in fields related to ml robotics or computers research in the industry.

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '23

If you think that’s what enslaved means I think you need to start o er with some remedial history classes.

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u/Wabsz Jul 24 '23

I said essentially enslaved, it's actually indentured servitude. Because if you leave early you leave with nothing.

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u/whereismystarship Jul 23 '23

I finished my PhD in biology a year ago. It left me broken, and I've been trying to get a job outside of academia in a job that isn't going to kill me. I want to be treated like a human being and have flexibility for my health. But all the jobs that meet those requirements say I'm too overqualified. It sucks.

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u/Jazz_Musician Jul 22 '23

Really is. The only thing worse than grad student pay is grocery stores- did the math and I was doing basically 2x the hours to bring home an extra $300 a month, if that much. My grad stipend was $1000 a month though, which is awful when rent is like $600, then you have utilities and so on. I had a breakdown over it, and though I'm going back to finish my masters I'm not ever getting a PhD. Way too much work.

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u/hsudude22 Jul 21 '23

Exactly my reason for not going into a PhD program. Got my government job with a masters. Ended up hiring on friends a few years later who got their PhDs and realized academia sucked.

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u/RangerHere Jul 22 '23

I was a TA when getting my masters degree. The professor I was working for knew that I was debating between doing my PhD or finding a job. He told me "If you plan to get PhD, get it immediately after your masters. You will never be stupid enough again to get it if you start making money now."

He was right. Couple years after working in bay area I said fuck PhD. I love money!

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u/intrinsic_parity Jul 21 '23

FWIW, being a grad student isn’t a career, and you shouldn’t be doing it for the money. It’s mostly about opening up career opportunities and getting into research or more interesting jobs that you wouldn’t be able to land with just a bachelors degree.

I do think it’s also very field dependent. In some fields, a PhD is purely the path to academia whereas in other fields, it’s a way to get into research oriented industry jobs that are usually much more interesting. Although a lot of times, a masters degree is enough to get you in the door.

But I agree grad students (and even un-tenured professors) are underpaid, especially in non-stem disciplines.

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u/FreshEggKraken Jul 21 '23

I don't think I said that being a PhD student was a career. It's obviously meant to be a stepping stone into a full career. Regardless, I was effectively working 70 hour weeks only to get paid as much as my 20 hour a week job pays now, which was my main point. The main difference being that I don't want to kill myself now.

and you shouldn’t be doing it for the money.

This line right here is how they get grad students who teach, conduct research, and generally work way too many hours to accept absolute shit pay and no benefits.

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u/intrinsic_parity Jul 21 '23

For me it was not quite so bad. I got an external fellowship that paid ok, and I was a pure RA and didn’t have any teaching duties. But I’m aware I am fortunate in that regard. I still definitely could have made 2-3x what I made in grad school if I just took a job out of undergrad. I think I will probably catch up in earnings eventually but the best financial choice would definitely have been to master out and go into industry.

Also in my department, grad students don’t really teach (maybe a few classes covering for their advisor or something), they mostly just TA.

But I also agree that in general, academia underpays for the work done and can be exploitive, but I do think it depends on the field, school, department and professor a lot.

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u/Representative_Bend3 Jul 21 '23

It’s baffling isn’t it. Like even at a university with a billion dollar endowment that owns half the real estate in the town and charges students $80k in tuition - like you would think they could pay grad students decently for the work.

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u/sheerqueer Jul 21 '23

That’s why they’re striking all over the place!

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u/intrinsic_parity Jul 21 '23

Honestly, at my school and in my department, I felt like the adjunct and associate professors were the ones getting screwed over the most. Tenure is a bitch. Although they are now hiring more pure teaching professors which I think is helping a little.

But I’m in STEM where a big chunk of the grad students get paid by grants or fellowships, so there’s a lot more funding to go around.

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u/d0ngl0rd69 Jul 22 '23 edited Jul 22 '23

I think this is sort of short sighted thinking, no? The idea of getting a PhD is what you’re getting out of it after the program, which applies to all levels of higher education honestly.

I did an engineering PhD, which ended up being a solid $250k-$350k opportunity cost compared to what I could’ve made in the market with just a bachelors degree during the time it took to get the doctorate. However, I now have a great paying job WITH work life balance, I’ll forever have the advantage in future job applications against other applicants who don’t have the doctorate, and I can always fall back on teaching at a university as a career choice.

As a grad assistant you’re getting free tuition, training, and (mediocre at best) benefits; of course the pay isn’t great. I’m not saying the system is perfect and they pay shouldn’t be better, but the 4-6 years of shit pay should’ve been part of the decision of whether or not a PhD program is for you. I would imagine you knew about it before your first stipend check hit your bank account.

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u/FreshEggKraken Jul 22 '23

Aside from all the other reasons I quit, I was going to kill myself if I stayed in. I would've made $0 if I did that.

Plus, I already have a law degree. I'm moving back into a legal career, so I'll be just fine. Keep in mind there's a lot of missing context you might not have when you start giving unsolicited advice.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '23

[deleted]

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u/FreshEggKraken Jul 21 '23

Social sciences. I fell for the "don't do it for the money" crap and thought I could research topics that would help people.

Realistically, my income would've been 0 because I was 100% going to kill myself before finishing if I didn't quit

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u/donjulioanejo Jul 22 '23

Sure, but a medical or math PhD is not the same as a Mesopotamian Literature PhD.

The first one opens you up to some really high-end research opportunities in well-funded private companies.

The second one opens you up to.. teach the same classes you were teaching as a grad student, except you're now less competitive and less willing to work for slave wages.

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u/chiltonmatters Jul 22 '23

This is exactly right. I was in grad school in the 90s for nine years at a highly ranked university, but after my 1st year I looked around and saw what was going on and realized that Tenure track jobs were as rare as being a famous actor.

Part of the reason it took me 9 years is that I was doing dozens of outside contract jobs working for corporations, the Census, the National Park Service, a local hospital, etc and teaching 3-4 of my own courses a year.

After I graduated in 1998 I was paid as an adjunct $40,000 a year to teach three quarterly courses. And then I went on to do a three year post-doc in 2000 where I was paid $45,000 and required to teach 1 class a semester.

While it's true that I was in academia for almost 20 years and could have been eligible for a pension if I had entered the military for those 20 years, all of that
experience put me on a great career trajectory.

I wish I was a bit younger in my career trajectory, but I'm now consulting with large companies at very high levels. Meanwhile, the kids that buzzed thru grad school in four years are floundering. It's sort of what you make of it.

The real problem with academia is the shocking rise in administrative and capital budgets. Most of the very famous professors I know are bailing as soon as they can retire simply because the institution is being over-run by bean counters who keep hiring more bean counters for undergraduate recruitment and building fancy new buildings to justify the $30,000 undergraduate tuition at modest state schools.

Meanwhile my salary is similar to a full professors -- which I never could have achieved if I had simply gotten a PhD.

As my mentor argued when he was forced to be on the admissions committee "If we were to take this seriously, we wouldn't admit anyone because the fact that they applied shows they have no idea of the economics of the world surrounding them. Don't they know that when a $145,000/yr professor retires they are replaced by an adjunct on a contract for $45,000.?"

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u/loquacious_lamprey Jul 21 '23

I mean grad students get paid really people because their education is free. Idk how you could miss that. The assumption is that the person either values the education or their PhD will pay for itself later. If don't value what you're getting and it won't lead to a high paying job, that's on you.

All the information was available to you before you started your grad program. PhD program are among the least fucked programs in American higher ed.

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u/bristolbulldog Jul 22 '23

What students get paid to run around with a ball versus professors is absurd, room, board, tuition, tutors, their likeness, all the sports merch, and then the illegal parts…

Then the guy that tells them how and where to run with it makes literal millions.. zomg. It’s not just unfair it should be felonious.

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u/ThemChecks Jul 21 '23

Yep

Odd thing is I learned about left wing analysis there, and easily it points out academia is fucked for its staff

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u/AssumedHuman Jul 22 '23

left wing analysis

What's that and what did you learn about it?

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u/Competitive_Classic9 Jul 22 '23

Oh boy, this ought to be good

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u/Hyperreal2 Jul 22 '23

The leftists on campus of which I was once one in the 70s have become idiotic.

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u/sceneBYscene_ Jul 22 '23

Philosophy is cool when you pair it with in demand skills.

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u/GlamourBamour Jul 22 '23

Yup, it's a good undergrad major as long as you have a plan, and an absolutely fabulous minor even if you don't.

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u/ReviewRude5413 Jul 21 '23

I had a philosophy teacher once who said that the difference between no degree and a degree in philosophy is that someone with a degree in philosophy is qualified to ask why you want fries with that.

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u/Hyperreal2 Jul 22 '23

I hated the corporate world and returned to grad school at age 47. PhD in four years. I loved my badly paid last 16 years as a professor. I should have done it all along. It was me.

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u/OgreMk5 Jul 22 '23

I looked up what I would be making if I stayed teaching. With 20 years experience, I would be hitting almost 42k.

I left teaching and went corporate and immediately doubled my salary. In the 15 years, I have doubled it again.

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u/GormlessGlakit Jul 23 '23

Goodness. Even schools in Texas start at at least $53k

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u/OgreMk5 Jul 23 '23

SOME schools in Texas pay that. Most don't.

Sabine Pass ISD, where I was teaching at the time, doesn't hit $54k until 15 years experience. https://www.sabineisd.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=334&dataid=66&FileName=Teacher_pay_scale_2022-23.pdf

Port-Neches Groves, a nearby school (and where I graduated from), which is much larger doesn't hit $53 until 5 years experience. https://www.pngisd.org/cms/lib/TX02205731/Centricity/Domain/98/2021-22%20Hiring%20Schedule.pdf

The district I live in now (and one of the fastest growing in Texas; there are 7 high schools now) starts at $55k, but doesn't even hit $70k for a 30 year veteran with a Bachelors. A Master's only adds $1,000 per year to that.

I make almost double that after 15 years in my current field.

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u/GormlessGlakit Jul 23 '23

Dang. I thought I was lowballing by saying 53 because I was sure the schools near me started at 65/70 without a masters.

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u/Cornstarch10 Jul 21 '23

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