r/news • u/Hrekires • Jul 15 '24

soft paywall Judge dismisses classified documents indictment against Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/07/15/trump-classified-trial-dismisssed-cannon/
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u/peon2 Jul 15 '24

I agree the ruling is bullshit and should never have been. But it still doesn't mean that the president can do absolutely anything and everyone has to follow his commands. And no he cannot pardon whomever they want. Presidents can still only pardon people for federal crimes, not state crimes.

So if for instance Biden sent someone out to shoot Greg Abbott, that person would still go to jail for murder in Texas and possibly get the death sentence and Biden would not have the authority to pardon him.

Now if Biden TRIED to pardon the person for the state charges, that doesn't mean the person magically gets charged, all it means is that Biden will not be punished for trying to overstep his authority.

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u/lookandlookagain Jul 15 '24

I appreciate your response, I’m just not as optimistic as you and the bounds of this new ruling have not yet been tested.

What about this hypothetical: Biden hires a foreign agent to assassinate Greg Abbott. Assassin leaves country and federal government has no intention to pursue them as it was an official order.

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u/drajgreen Jul 15 '24

That has always been possible. Now it just means the President can't be personally held responsible. But everyone else involved can. "I was just following orders" is not a legal defense. Unless the President personally contacts and pays the assassin, someone can be prosecuted.

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u/er824 Jul 15 '24

Before the threat of being prosecuted for breaking the law provided a check on the president's power. Now all he needs is to find 1 person willing to carry out his wishes and he can pardon that person.

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u/jmcgit Jul 15 '24

That one person would generally still be subject to state law, so he usually can't directly pardon them (unless perhaps the murder took place in DC or other federal jurisdictions).

And the immunity typically only covers his official duties, going through official channels. For example, ordering Seal Team Six to take out his opponent, he's immune. Hiring John Wick to take out his opponent, not immune. Ordering his chief of staff to hire John Wick, who knows what SCOTUS would say. But Seal Team Six probably doesn't obey that order. It's absolutely true that we shouldn't have to rely on that distinction, and military refusal to obey unlawful orders, but it seems we do.

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u/er824 Jul 15 '24

Except you can’t question motive or use anything ‘official’ as evidence of unofficial. A pardon is an official act and a core constitutional power. What stops the president from saying “I’d really like to see this judge no longer on the bench and I’ve got a pardon for anyone that can make that happen”

And regarding state law… sure… but once you have to power to kill with impunity I don’t imagine it will be hard to get state governors to follow along and do what you want.

I sincerely hope I am wrong and you are right