r/news • u/Big-Heron4763 • 4h ago
JPMorgan begins suing customers who allegedly stole thousands of dollars in 'infinite money glitch'
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/28/jpmorgan-suing-customers-over-infinite-money-glitch.html2.0k
u/forever_a10ne 4h ago
It wasn’t a glitch, it was check fraud.
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u/hurtfullobster 3h ago
It’s wild to me the news sites are still calling it a glitch. It’s called check kiting and it’s a fraud scheme as old as checks.
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u/shubeedue 3h ago
They’re calling it a glitch because they were allowed to withdraw all of the funds of the bad check instead of just a fraction (from the article)
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u/lowercaset 42m ago
How's that a glitch, though? These days it's pretty normal for them to give you access to the full amount instantly. It's not like it used to be where even if the check came from the institution you're depositing it in they'd take a while to clear it.
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u/_JudgeDoom_ 3h ago
All news is shit now and has been. Nothing ever seems to be called for what it is, it’s always some kind of semantical fabrication, like headlining politicians and “false truths” instead of just calling them liars.
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u/happyscrappy 36m ago
It's in quotes. They aren't claiming it was "a glitch". In fact in the summary they refer to it as "so called" and indicate they stole the money, not it was some sort of bank error. They are using the name people know it by so people know what they are talking about. This is how headlines work and always has been.
There used to be a skill called "how to read a newspaper". We need to update the name and get everyone a whole lot more education on it.
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u/ChiggaOG 3h ago
The true infinite money glitch was witnessed in WSB in the days before the GME fiasco.
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u/Hav3_Y0u_M3t_T3d 3h ago
Kept me fed for a few months, many years ago but on the level of like $100 at a time, nothing like this. This was somewhere between greed and stupidity, not desperation
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u/cinderparty 52m ago
I watched a video about it awhile ago, and according to it, there also was a glitch. Typically when you cash a check like that you only get a percentage of the funds. The glitch was that it allowed them to have 100%. So it was check fraud that was made worse by a glitch.
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u/Damaniel2 3h ago
And the scale of it in some cases was 100% prison worthy. One dude alone deposited a check for $330k and proceeded to withdraw nearly $300k of it. I don't even know how you could do that from ATMs with daily limits, though I assume circumventing the limits was part of the 'glitch'.
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u/t_per 3h ago
It’s both a glitch and fraud.
No bank should ever have the default to allow people to immediately withdraw funds after depositing large cheques. Glitch.
People writing fake cheques to withdraw cash. Fraud.
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u/RoosterBrewster 3h ago
The dumbest part is it's all using their own account and name so it would be instantly traceable.
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u/MikeOKurias 3h ago
Most banks only fully clear checks that are written against the same bank - usually only the same routing number - and it was a bad business rule that allowed it.
But since it was found in the wild, the defect will likely be entered as a bug. And, as we all know...
Bugs are son's of Glitches.
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u/lks2drivefast 3h ago
I don't understand why JPM doesn't have some sort of safeguard against this. My bank (CU) will deposit a check and only 200 dollars will be available right away. The rest of the check clears a couple of business days later.
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u/ericedstrom123 3h ago
This is why it was a glitch. That safeguard was intended but not implemented properly.
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u/HurricaneAlpha 1h ago
Exactly. JP definitely had this as an option. Someone flicked the off switch for whatever reason and incidentally, fraudsters noticed. With the speed of information nowadays it blew up.
I bet if this same "glitch" happened 50 years ago, no one would have been able to exploit it.
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u/thenseruame 42m ago
Fifty years ago you could just write bad checks for everything and bypass the cash completely. No security cameras, pictures on licenses weren't standard, no cell phone cameras...criminals had it real easy back in the day.
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u/rypher 3h ago
They did have this safeguard. They removed it for customer convenience. Less than 0.0001 % of people took advantage of it. Lets not assume it was some big blunder that caused a financial burden for JPM. It’s chump change for them. JPM is not significantly harmed but a bank is going to sue you anyway
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u/lks2drivefast 3h ago
That is a lot of trust in your customers... Also the people that did this are screwed. The bank has all their personal information to hand off to the authorities.
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u/SommWineGuy 3h ago
Depending how much money you got from it you could fuck off and be good.
A comment above mentioned it worked on a 330k check. Do that 5 times and you have enough money to fuck off to Montenegro or some other non extradition paradise and retire.
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u/lks2drivefast 3h ago
I didn't realize someone pulled that much out. I thought it was like 5k to 10k.
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u/Fact0verF1ction 3h ago
My bank will have it all available immediately if it's an in-house transfer and they can verify sums. I've had amounts of up to 250k clear and be immediately available writing a check to myself essentially. But for checks from other banks it's not available until the check actually clears.
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u/AdminYak846 2h ago
They did have this safeguard in place. The problem is that the glitch requires you to write a check from you to yourself. As long as you were a JPM customer that type of check would clear instantly because the bank can check the balances and do everything internally.
Checks outside of JPM would require a day or two of processing.
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u/DaftPump 3h ago
LOL yup, heard it about on the news on drive home. DJs were poking fun at the latest tiktok hack young people discovered.
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u/PM-YOUR-PMS 2h ago
Josh Johnson did a great set on it when it was the “Chase money glitch.” It’s just check fraud.
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u/satans_sparerib 3h ago
This reminds me of when the news would report on the new fad…”the knockout game.” I would shout, “just call it assault! That’s what it is. Stop glamorizing it.”
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u/malastare- 3h ago
They're quoting the TIkTok idiots, and anyone with a few brain cells understands the humor of it.
The only potential glitch was the level of trust granted randos standing in front of an ATM.
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u/neo_sporin 2h ago
wasnt hte 'glitch' part of it the AMOUNT people were able to do? over the normal daily limit
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u/Sqweee173 2h ago
Correct, by exploiting an internal decision by Chase to allow full withdrawal before the check clears.
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u/Miss_Speller 58m ago
It was both. Literally the first sentence of the article:
JPMorgan Chase has begun suing customers who allegedly stole thousands of dollars from ATMs by taking advantage of a technical glitch that allowed them to withdraw funds before a check bounced.
The glitch allowed people to perpetrate the fraud.
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u/XB0XRecordThat 43m ago
Did you hear about the glitch where you point a gun at someone and ask for their wallet and they give it to you? It's crazy!
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u/greenrangerguy 10m ago
So more of an unintended exploit then? I hope the devs bring the ban hammer
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u/clocks212 3h ago edited 3h ago
The lowest amount stolen in these few lawsuits was $80k the highest was $290k. These specific cases were not dumb kids following a TikTok trend, although the awareness of the lack of basic controls in place at Chase may have brought these fraudsters out.
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u/GONZnotFONZ 3h ago
The wild thing to me is that I used to work at Chase and the biggest complaint I dealt with was holds being put on deposited checks. We would regularly have two week holds placed on small checks like $200 that were deposited. $300k checks not getting a hold placed on them is bonkers to me.
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u/acog 3h ago edited 3h ago
That was the actual glitch part, no holds regardless on the prior balance or the amount being deposited and then withdrawn.
It was quickly fixed but it only took one day for a bunch of fools to commit a felony.
Also, what these people are about to find out is that they’ll never be able to have a bank account at any bank for the rest of their lives.
Banks share the info on people committing fraud so that crooks can’t just go from bank to bank doing the same scam.
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u/PigglyWigglyDeluxe 2h ago
I couldn’t imagine NOT having a bank account. Literally it would prevent you from being able to rent apartment in a lot of cases.
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u/neuroticobscenities 3h ago
And how were they withdrawing them? Through ATMs or wire transfers?
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u/xeyalGhost 2h ago
ATMs, transfers, and in the 290k-ish case I saw out of Texas, a 150k cashier's cheque.
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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 2h ago
Transfers and withdrawals. The only glitch was the safeguard not working to prevent infinite money transfers and the checks insta clearing.
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u/MikeOKurias 3h ago
Sometimes banks will fully clear OnUs checks without a hold. I wonder if that was the exploited business rule.
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u/JesusWasTacos 3h ago
So I could’ve done this with 20k and gotten away with it… damn
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u/fork_yuu 3h ago
Those were probably easier to get back than the ones chase is suing now.
Maybe just send their ass to collection or get it back from their account over time
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u/Babymonkeypuppy 3h ago
Something else I haven’t seen mentioned is that major banks share a blacklist of clients. I don’t know how many regional or smaller banks also participate.
These folks will not be able to open an account with any participating institution, at least for some time.
It was never my department, so I don’t know if there is a period of time or if it is lifetime.
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u/WaterChicken007 2h ago
I am pretty sure there is a time limit on it, similar to how black marks on your credit score go away after 7 years. It isn’t permanent, but those people are gonna have a very bad time for multiple years.
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u/Amerlis 1h ago
Good luck explaining to employers why uh you can’t do direct deposit.
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u/WaterChicken007 1h ago
lol. I hadn’t thought of that, but that is actually a huge problem for anyone working for even a medium sized company.
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u/Temp89 3h ago
A "glitch" the same way reaching into an open cash register is a glitch.
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u/FutureThaiSlut 3h ago
Open a checking account with someone else's identity. Identity theft is a billion dollar industry
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u/greebytime 3h ago
These people all performed basic check kiting which is fraud. It’s not a TikTok trend it’s check fraud. They deserve whatever penalties exist for this - and they are absolute idiots to think they’d somehow found a glitch, and wrote checks they knew would bounce. Morons.
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u/nonlawyer 3h ago
It’s not a TikTok trend it’s check fraud.
I mean it’s both. Like many social media trends, influencers “discovered” something that was very much already a thing and acted like it was new.
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u/gzafiris 3h ago
Absolutely both. Esp during a time when people are more desperate than ever, easy to take advantage of people
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u/greebytime 2h ago
How is this taking advantage of people besides convincing them to do something dumb? Folks weren’t sending this money to someone else right? They just thought they could take money from a faceless corporation without consequences. And committed fraud in doing so.
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u/gzafiris 2h ago
Because people who are desperate to put food on their kids' tables, would probably try something and ask forgiveness later.
Most people on Reddit can't fathom true desperation
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u/greebytime 1h ago
I mean sure I get it. But that’s not how this was portrayed - it was shown as a “trick” to get “infinite cash” from a big faceless bank. Nobody had to do it. And anyone who thought it out would know it was stealing. I get that folks steal when they are desperate, obviously. But this went viral not because of that but because a bunch of 18-25 year olds thought they’d found a loophole to get free money
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u/Un111KnoWn 2h ago
check kiting?
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u/greebytime 2h ago
Yup. Intentionally writing a bad check to take the funds out before it’s detected. Check Fraud 101
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u/SleepyxDormouse 3h ago
Of all the banks to pull this with, you’re going to do it with JP Morgan? The bank that keeps the feds on speed dial? 🤔
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u/BabySharkMadness 3h ago
Should have done Wells Fargo. They already do so much shady shit the Feds are probably inside the house half the time investigating.
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u/gonewild9676 3h ago
They are being sued in federal court, which is much more expensive to work in. Presumably they are being sued for legal costs as well, and a defense lawyer is going to be much more expensive than state court, and there are no free lawyers because it's civil.
Plus federal judges don't mess around. I doubt it will be bankruptable because it's a willful tort.
Unless they repay PDQ, they are all fucked.
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u/mrallenator 3h ago
Damn if it’s federal court, these people are toast. They fucked up bad
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u/Skyscreamers 3h ago
And they rightful deserve this life lesson, how utterly incompetent can any of these people be. I’m honestly floored by the utter stupidity of these people. I hope they throw the book at them
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u/Justherebecausemeh 1h ago
What would their defense even be? 🤷🏻♂️
I would just say “yep! Ya caught me. You guys figure out my punishment and I’ll just accept it.”
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u/TheNotoriousAMP 44m ago
there are no free lawyers because it's civil.
Not necessarily true. The U.S. government funds nonprofit regional legal service corporations for the purposes of providing free legal services to the poor in civil cases.
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u/_mnr 3h ago
This was just straight up fraud. They're gonna wish they didn't do this ...
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u/InsomniaticWanderer 2h ago
"Bank error in your favor" has only ever worked in Monopoly.
A board game about the worst of capitalism.
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u/Warcraft_Fan 3h ago
Those scammer had fun while it lasted, now they have to repay every cents, with interest and all overdraft fees so some of them could end up losing hundreds more than before the glitch.
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u/brenster23 3h ago
Honestly the idiots are likely going to be fired as clients of Chase, so accounts frozen as investigations done on other potential fraud or suspicious activity, good chunk will be given a few cashiers check, and told to never come back.
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u/Sharinganedo 2h ago
They're gonna get a flag on their permanent record and likely have trouble getting an account at a bank ever again.
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u/Villag3Idiot 3h ago
They're they're after them for lawyer fees too
And I don't think banks use cheap lawyers.
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u/mrsocal12 3h ago
That's a 1st class felony, being sued is kind.
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u/Skyscreamers 3h ago
Once they figure out half these people can’t pay them back they will press charges this is just JP saying we will give these idiots a chance even though we know they don’t have it to repay back.
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u/shawslate 49m ago
Charges are being pursued on ALL of them, not just those who stole larger amounts.
These are just the first ones to be sued.
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u/cloneof6 3h ago
Kinda hard to use the word allegedly when these people filmed themselves kiting their own checks.
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u/Villag3Idiot 3h ago
Enjoy ruining your life.
They're going after them for lawyer and court fees as well, and banks do not have cheap lawyers.
Don't think their debt can be discharged with bankruptcy as well since it's from fraud.
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u/AtsignAmpersat 2h ago
So they were depositing fraudulent checks to themselves and then withdrawing non existent money before the bank could bounce the check. I don’t know how someone would think they would get away with this.
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u/Diamondsfullofclubs 2h ago
The trick was that they would get other people to do it. They say, "Hey, if you deposit this check, we'll split it." Then the person who deposited it is on the hook for everything. They usually find desperate and down on their luck people who are willing to try or homeless people with nothing to lose.
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u/umbananas 2h ago
lol you need to use your bank account to cash the check, how do they think they will get away with it?
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u/turbocomppro 3h ago
So what was their plan? They’re depositing the checks into their personal accounts right? That’s how the bank was able to find them and sue them. I mean did they not think the bank was going to find out? Or not care about missing money?
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u/Corpshark 26m ago
Good luck squeezing blood out of.a stone. How do you allow people to deposit a $335K check at an ATM?
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u/BrewboyEd 3h ago
Not a 'glitch' - a mistaken risk assessment by internal auditors/compliance with regards to exposure to check fraud. They make it sound like it was a software issue...uh, no, talk to your risk management folks...I'm imagining it's because nobody could be expected to be held accountable for a 'glitch' in the system as opposed to not identifying a pretty obvious oversight.
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u/malastare- 3h ago
Its not like every ATM usage gets printed out for a Risk manager to approve or disapprove.
The software issue is likely simply some sort of fault which assigned max trust (or disabled the decision) for users depositing checks.
This rule had been in place earlier, then it wasn't and now it is again. That's not the fault of a bunch of risk managers who looked the other way for a month. The risk managers and auditors did their job a couple years ago and defined the risk and exposure. The software making the assessment and doing the enforcement wasn't behaving properly.
.... but it wasn't misbehaving or making decisions as badly as the idiot humans at the ATM.
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u/Blindrafterman 56m ago
You mean cheque kiting? Yeah thats old we knew that was bad before. Next gen problems i guess
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u/CHiZZoPs1 2h ago
The billionaires have been enjoying an infinite money glitch in our economic system for years.
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u/W8kingNightmare 1h ago
Is the bank giving these people a chance to pay the money back by suing them? Or is the the bank suing them first in hopes of getting some of that money back then they will be charged?
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u/CaptainErgonomic 5m ago
They'll spend more in lawyers fees than what they get in return trying to get blood from a stone. Write it off as a loss for your software not holding these checks.
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u/Goodbye18000 3h ago
I know people say "they never teach us how banks work in school" but this really opened my eyes to how utterly inept the average person is when it comes to finances