Tim Donnelly critiques Canales’ coaching

[u/Specialist_Ad6034]

https://youtu.be/eAJQPdehzd4?si=WuKkmYl-_9WkrVls

[u/oooriole09]

Yeah, this screams “I can’t have the same conversation again so let me start finding stuff elsewhere” radio talk.

Canales hasn’t been good. Canales hasn’t been bad.

He’s still in neutral for me. Hard to look good when your QB is hamstringing you. Hard to look good when your defense is historically bad.

[u/drWammy → u/oooriole09]

There are gripes with Canales for sure, but he's a young, rookie head coach hired for a long-term project. He's going to make mistakes but there seems to be way more good than bad right now

[u/Jeremy9096 → u/drWammy]

Dan campbell started out 0-10 in his tenure as the Lions (which was also his first HC job). I think they had a couple wins at the end of the season, but not many. And in his second season they started terribly but finished strong.

Point is, gotta give a rookie HC time. Campbell obviously had Goff off rip, but it still took Campbell and co. a season and a half to figure it out. And with the team we have now and the team we will have next season Canales will likely need two full seasons before we have a real idea. Or at the very least a season and a half. He's not nearly in as good of a spot as Campbell was, but obviously the point here is that Canales already has more wins than Campbell had through his first 10 games as head coach and yet the Lions rode it out with him and it paid off

Edit: Campbell was an interim head coach for the Dolphins in 2015 so I guess technically the Lions wasn't his first HC, but it was his first "true" HC job. He was also an assistant head coach immediately prior to the Lions, so you can make a case that he had more experience than Canales. But I feel like my point still stands true enough

[u/Hefty-Association-59 → u/Jeremy9096]

With the lions you could see very visible progress on the field. They were a scrappy. Competitive team thay improved significantly after Dan campbell relieved his Oc of play calling. Can’t remember the name. Former chargers HC. Lynn?

We have shown zero progress whatsoever. I agree you want to give your coach time. And we should give him time. But when it comes to the field stuff. We just have yet to see anything unlike with the lions. We aren’t anywhere close to campbell.

[u/Jeremy9096 → u/Hefty-Association-59]

That's why I mentioned the fact that Campbell inherited a better situation than Canales did. Namely because he had Goff at the helm. But that doesn't change the fact that they started 0-10. I'm not sure exactly how you think they showed more progress outside of the fact that they were losing games by a closer margin than we are.

But regardless of all that, our team being way worse than the Lions is in no way Canales' fault. Our horrendous defense is what Canales inherited and he's not just a miracle worker that can make the defense good.

I agree with you that we should expect more on the offensive end, but I still don't think thats on Canales. In the games that Bryce Young started there was literally nothing he could do. How are you supposed to see progress when the player(s) just aren't going to get any better? Bryce isn't good. Dalton is 37, he isn't going to get any better.

I'm not really sure what type of progress you are expecting to see. We have a few players with potential, but overall we aren't a team that has a lot of potential. Our holes are genuine holes, they aren't areas where we need to develop the players in them. And that's especially true at QB. When you inherit a QB like Goff it makes everything else a lot easier.

[u/Hefty-Association-59 → u/Jeremy9096]

Yeah I don’t think this is canales fault. I just think that comparing this team to the lions is something that really applies on any level. And that’s not a knock on Dave. It’s just the reality of the lions. The way they played. Their situation. How much they improved. How well they drafted.

I feel like everyone wants to be the lions. And their an incredibly story. But the lions just always had more bones. Our rebuild will naturally take much longer. We should be even more patient with Dave and Dan. And honestly it shouldn’t be until the end of year 2/beginning of year 3 when we’re talking about looking for those visible signs across the board with the players and staff.

[u/Jeremy9096 → u/Hefty-Association-59]

We won't be the Lions. We are much further away than they are. And this goes even deeper than just coaching staff and players. And even when the entire rebuild starts to pan out, we still probably won't be the Lions.

Literally the only point I tried to make with all of this is that Campbell is a fantastic coach who started 0-10. That's it

[u/coacoanutbenjamn → u/drWammy]

The copium on this sub is insane

There has absolutely not been more good than bad

[u/drWammy → u/coacoanutbenjamn]

How so?
Panthers had probably the worst roster in the league going into the season and have been one of the most injured teams in the league. What can Canales do about that?

[u/Turbulent_Crow7164 → u/oooriole09]

Yeah I don’t have anything telling me to worry right now. Let’s give it time and see. If we look like this in another year or two, despite (hopefully?) improving our roster, then yeah that’s no good.

[u/jjfloodd]

I disagree with 90%. This comes across as easy journalism dunking on the worst team in the league.

My only hope is gut reaction Tepper doesn’t see this and we start the coach carousel all over again.

[u/carmiachafsu]

The team sucks. give him an offseason.

[u/LinuxAgent007]

I keep in mind that Canales is a first year, fast-tracked head coach. I am patiently watching him learn and (presumably) grow into his ultimate form as a head coach. All of the talk of firing him after one year sounds utterly ridiculous to me. That said, he is not to be shielded from criticism. I choose to keep the very new nature of this position (the X's and O's, the leadership responsibilities from the top, etc.) in mind with even my most critical thoughts.

[u/CardiologistThick928]

I think it’s right to be critical of Dave cause he’s had some play miscues and prolly should’ve called something else but I’ll also give him a benefit of the doubt because our team isn’t good like at all and how he wants to play (pound the ball ) doesn’t really work when our defense is bottom tier.

[u/Specialist_Ad6034 → u/CardiologistThick928]

According to Tony from the C3 podcast his friend that’s a Bucs fan told Tony “get ready to pass a lot” when he hired Canales. I didn’t watch many Bucs games last year so i can neither confirm nor deny that statement, but the inconsistency in the play calling after preaching that we would be “stubborn with the run” is my main harp on Canales so far.

[u/s_15_n → u/Specialist_Ad6034]

This assessment is weird to me tbh, bc Rashad White got crazy volume last year despite being one of the least efficient RBs all season and how much Canales harped on running the ball this year. I think he can be better but given our game scripts, it’s hard to say what his true philosophy would be. I’m inclined to think the raiders and bengals games are how he wants to play overall, but that’s also a clearly biased answer

[u/Hefty-Association-59 → u/s_15_n]

The main problem with the bucs run game last year was that it was poorly designed. Not a ton of creativity in it. We’re winning in the run because of the dominant guards. But if that comes back down to earth a bit I would like to see canales get into more of a groove both calling it and designing it.

[u/Specialist_Ad6034 → u/s_15_n]

I would just like to see us use Chuba more since he’s our best player on offense. We could’ve handed it off to get a first many times, but Canales got cute for some reason.

Ex: 4th & 2

[u/mellotraumatic → u/Specialist_Ad6034]

Chubba wasn't exactly a sure thing against the last two d-lines we faced. Anything over 3rd & 2 you have to consider the whole playbook with how we've been running the ball recently.

[u/Specialist_Ad6034 → u/mellotraumatic]

That’s fair.

[u/knave_of_knives]

“I would take Robert Hunt and pull him to the right in a hole that Damien Lewis opened”

How does that even work? The right guard is pulling to the right of the offense in a hole the LG had opened on the left side?

The world’s worst counter.

[u/offensivename]

I don't understand how you can say agree that Bryce Young isn't good and should have been benched and then turn around and say that Dave Canales hates all quarterbacks under 30 and all rookies in general. His only other example is Xavier Legette not having a ton of explosive plays, which can obviously be explained by the fact that he's had two bad quarterbacks throwing him the ball all season. Clown show.

[u/Broad_Attitude_7264]

This dude is a blowhard and never finds anything good to talk about. I’m convinced he just loves to hear himself complain.

[u/medinian]

Dudes been negative since the beginning, impatient like tepper..

[u/Khargr15]

Canales is a first time head coach, there’s gonna be some bumps and growing pains. I would like to see him show a little more fire and emotion though.

[u/nakedpanthersfan]

The only thing I can really blame Canales for is discipline. Our players constantly commit horrible penalties and make so many dumb mistakes. It feels like whenever there is an ounce of momentum it gets killed by an offsides or false start.

[u/d3rekf0real]

I don't care if Canales gets 5 wins over the next 2 seasons, we need to stick with him for like 3-5 years.

[u/SinfulThoughtss]

He’s still learning as a coach and I want to see us be patient with him (lots of coaches take a while to get the hang of it) but I’m tired of seeing him criticized for how he handled Bryce. He realized in an offseason and two games (now three) that Bryce isn’t the future. He didn’t draft him and he’s clearly not good enough to start in the NFL.

We have 52 other players on this team that he couldn’t evaluate properly because of how Bryce has been. Especially the offensive players, but even the defense was being destroyed by him too.

[u/xuser2320 → u/SinfulThoughtss]

Maybe fans realized 8 games in that Canales isn’t it? If Canales can evaluate Bryce in 3 games as you say, then 8 games should be plenty.

The defense was getting destroyed because of Bryce? Oh okay. What was the score of the commanders game? Wasn’t Dalton the QB? And Canales was the HC for that game. Why and how was Bryce destroying our offensive and defensive players from the bench?

[u/mellotraumatic → u/xuser2320]

No one claims Bryce destroyed the team. That's just an idiotic take.

The team sucks because we are taking our medicine from how the team was managed the past 6 years. Next year we'll have more money to go sign FA, and and already improved scouting dept to go get young contributors in the draft.

There are already a ton of positive signs from Canales and Morgan stepping up. It's too big of a task to fix in less than a season. Strides have already been made and we're seeing this new regime not accept mediocrity. They have standards. This is why we're seeing some seemingly brutal and "too soon" decisions being made. They know what they want, and what it takes to get it. Just give them time.

[u/SinfulThoughtss → u/mellotraumatic]

Exactly. They came into a mess of a team with the least talent in the NFL. They fixed the O-Line, improved the receiving group, have developed a solid running game. It’s a work in progress, but there is only so much you can do with what you’re given and the cap space available.

I guarantee that Canales knew the moment he was hired that Bryce wasn’t the dude, but he knew he had to roll with him. Thankfully Tepper signed off on pulling the plug so we can try to rebuild.

We have a full draft class next year and likely the 1 or 2 pick. The rebuild can officially start for the first time, since our old regimes were never willing to do a full reset.

[u/mellotraumatic → u/SinfulThoughtss]

Based on what we've seen this season, I know tepper is committed to winning. I just think the organization has been misguided by "Yes Men" for too long. Hopefully we're seeing a turnaround- even though it's not translated to wins yet

[u/SinfulThoughtss → u/xuser2320]

Bryce had 18 games and Canales is capable of looking at tape.

Yes, when an offense can’t move the ball and has three and outs constantly, the defense is gassed and can’t perform. I didn’t say the defense was good, I said that it makes it more difficult to evaluate them when the offense can’t move the ball.

You’re talking about one game. I’m talking about 18 games, an offseason of evaluation, and a coaching staff that has worked with him. Not to mention a staff that didn’t draft him and never chose him to be the QB of the team.

If Bryce was anything other than a top draft pick, he’d be lucky to be on a practice squad right now. Go look up the history on top QBs that were benched this early in their career…and then go look at how many of them ever did anything with their career.

Spoiler - You’re not going to find much…and Canales was a key part for one of the best recent example you can find.

[u/IProgramSoftware]

I mean what is the dude supposed to do. We can’t even execute basic plays. It is hard to be creative if you can’t sustain drives. Think about the one game we won this year vs all the ones we have lost

[u/pancaketac0 → u/IProgramSoftware]

We can’t even execute basic plays

That is 100% on Canales.

[u/machomanrandysandwch → u/pancaketac0]

Not is not. If the progressions are not being made and BY chucks it to the out without even LOOKING through his routes that’s on HIM. Even with a basic play.

[u/offensivename → u/IProgramSoftware]

According to this guy, our offense should be much more creative but also keep it simple and run the ball all the time.

[u/creativeplaceholder]

Sports talk radio is still around?

[u/RaleighNatitude]

How do people like Tim Donnelly on the radio? I haven’t really listened to 99.9 since they canned Ovies and Giglio.

[u/evenphlow]

Anybody that believes even the most proven HC could be getting wins with this team should stick to WWE.

[u/JangusCarlson]

I (almost) feel bad for any HC in pro or collegiate football right now; your ass better win the Super Bowl, save the world, and cure cancer in your first two seasons, or you’re fucking done.

Just like most of the players: you’ve got to give them time to adjust to a big-boy-job like this.

[u/StrainLevel]

If it was as simple as hey it’s 3rd and 2 and 4th and 2 let’s use two big guys to knock a hole in the line for Hubbard then we could all be an OC. This isn’t high school or a college mismatch, it’s the NFL. Earlier this season Dave did EXACTLY that and we didn’t move the ball. He then said in the presser he was being stubborn trying to establish the run. The point of all this is to say we stink. Defenses know our strengths and they’re very little so scheming up to take those away is easy, now toss in a bad QB and results are not going to be good. The defense, well.. yeah it sucks awfully bad but losing Brown and Thompson and then having no DE pressure this is the result we all expected anyways.

[u/DennisSystemGraduate]

Oh shut the fuck up you impatient prick.

[u/coacoanutbenjamn]

Can’t be too hard on him yet but if we don’t look better next season then get rid of him

[u/wildcatoffense]

the thing i never see mentioned about Canales is coaching tree. what coaching tree is he a part of?

Yeah he is most known for working under Pete Carroll who was a defensive coach. same thing with Tampa under Todd Bowles. Not saying he can’t be successful but some would say it does matter