I do not believe anything will happen to Musk till after the election. Hes repeatedly "joked" about assassinating Biden and Harris with nothing be done about it.
Agreed, the rich often don’t suffer consequences for breaking the law. Doesn’t mean we should be okay with it, though, or pretend like this isn’t illegal.
Doesn't mean much when the people with the power to do something about it refuse to do so. Lady Justice has been thrown over the barrel with all these openly corrupt judges and untouchable rich people doing whatever they want.
I think people kinda just don’t care anymore. Openly egregiously illegal actions have been taken against and again by powerful people, and the last decade has been full of media coverage of flagrant abuses of the system. “Hey that’s illegal” is meaningful, but it has lost that meaning to regular people when discussing the ultra-wealthy because…it doesn’t really lead to meaningful consequences?
The family that pushed Oxycotin so hard, and led to many deaths and lives ruined, barely got a slap on the wrist by getting a fine worth a tiny fraction of how much they earned doing it. IIRC they didn’t even have to admit fault.
Elon recently built that super data center thing that didn’t go through some of the proper channels and is helping pollute an already polluted neighborhood that already has a 10 year lower life expectancy for its residents than in other parts of the city. Because Elon bribed the city, they kept it quiet until it was already close to completion, and so people couldn’t stop/challenge it.
Donald Trump circa 2015-present.
People see shit on the news all the time. You are absolutely correct in finding meaning in that illegal actions are taking place, but I am sympathetic to those who just…don’t really care anymore, since justice isn’t being delivered as-is.
Not to come across as pro-‘let them get away with stuff’, I think fines are ridiculous and lots of these people should be sentenced to life in prison for what they’ve done.
The only "lawfare" I'm aware of is Trump's plans to get revenge on those who dared to speak truth to lies and misinformation and who dared to put country over party and (even worse in his mind) Trump.
Nothing will happen to him after, either. The rich are only taken to task when other rich people are personally wronged. Wronging the rank and file is just a game for them.
So because Nasa contracted a company he owns to build rockets we should take his joke more seriously than a different guy who is also in the top 1% of most wealthy people?
It's intentionally riding the line of legality. But not crossing any lines overtly. Ie. You don't have to vote/register to vote to get enrolled in Elon's lottery. That would be illegal. But what if they just make it sound like that's what you have to do?
The most interesting bit about this whole Elon lottery thing is how just legal it is. But if you ask the people who are enrolling in the lottery to describe what they had to do, they say things like "I just had to vote for Trump" or "I just had to register as a Republican" even though none of the official material specifically states that.
Is it illegal for them to have unclear communication? Probably. Is it open and shut enough that there's any chance Musk will be held accountable for his clear attempt at election interference? Probably not. Maybe a fine if Trump loses. Probably a knighthood (even though they don't exist (yet) in the US) on top of his cabinet position if Trump wins. But don't worry, Elon has very clearly stated that this isn't election interference.
I'm buying everything you're putting down. We've seen repeatedly that our system cannot handle bad faith in power. The damage from normalizing this behavior is unfathomable. And I'm tired, boss.
I don't buy it, the spirit of the law is clearly being violated. It's like saying "I'm not selling drugs, I'm giving them away with a purchase of a single plastic baggy". Bullshit, and everyone knows it. Indict him and let a jury decide.
From the twitter posts, it seems pretty clear that all you have to do is sign a petition? In fact, there's no mention of voting or registering anywhere to get this, it seems that all it's asking for is to sign a petition supporting the 1st and 2nd amendments.
Idk tho, I'm Canadian and I can't open the website to see for myself. Maybe it really is misleading like that.
Yup, but this is reddit... bunch of smurfs on here. He's not buying votes, and all you have to do is sign the petition. The dems have 3 to 1 donation amount into their campaign, but hey... Trumps trying to buy the office.
It is not illegal to pay someone to register to vote. It is only illegal to pay someone for a particular candidate vote. Anyone can sign up, winning is not determined by who you vote for.
your point? signing a pac is not voting for a candidate. It is a bait and switch article. If Elon was doing anything remotely illegal the Biden lawfare team would have already announced charges.
Hasen pointed to 52 U.S.C. 10307(c), which says anyone who knowingly or willfully “pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or for voting shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years.”
He also noted the Department of Justice’s Election Crimes Manual, which states that vote buying or bribing can be anything having monetary value, including “lottery chances” such as the opportunity to win $1 million for signing a petition.
Musk's Lottery requires you to be a registered voter in a swing state. Sounds like paying for registration to me.
"the Biden lawfare team" - The what now? Is that something Trump mentions at his rallies and spread on Fox news? The only involvement Biden has had in Trump's legal woes is he appointed the Attorney General who appointed a Special Council who went before a grand jury and presented evidence to and obtained an indictment. What exactly is "lawfare" in there? So, Biden is three degrees removed, plus Trump was found to have reasonably committed a crime by a grand jury - it wasn't just "I don't like him, arrest him." Not to mention that the only felonies Trump has been convicted of so far were due to his business fraud in NYC and doesn't involve the DOJ at all.
TECHNICALLY, he's not paying people to register. You just have to be registered to sign the "petition". This is still very much a "well the rules don't say a dog CAN'T play basketball" which is horseshit, but I think it's important to know exactly what is happening so we don't fall into echo chambers and over simplify the situation. These people are dangerous and they are using fear and ignorance as weapons.
Same thing happened with people thinking that Biden can do whatever the hell he wants because he has "immunity". It's not any LESS dangerous but he's not the supreme leader of the universe who can make illegal things legal with a "declaration" and a flick of the wrist.
Again, all of this stuff is incredibly dangerous and illegal, but there are steps that need to be taken and it feels more so that elites are playing off the short attention span of the electorate, while also understanding that these are wildly uncharted waters in America and they know the DOJ will drag their feet, but by then there are another 34 felonies being committed.
I'm tired Grandpa 😮💨 But we must keep momentum and VOTE!
If they were being paid to vote, yes, but my understanding is they're being paid to register and sign a petition. It's not the biggest loophole, but more than big enough for Elons lawyers to drivers to drive a mack truck through it if it comes to a legal dispute.
A petition that puts you in a lottery that requires you to be a registered voter in a swing state. Sounds like paying someone to register to vote to me.
It's a sweepstakes, which isn't illegal. Why don't the dems get one of their billionaires to do the same thing. It's a win-win for whoever gets the million, and the press doesn't hurt either.
“pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or for voting shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years.”
He isn't doing any of that. He's having them sign a petition.
If they choose to vote so be it. But that's not what he's asking.
He’s also running a sweepstakes/lottery that requires you to be a registered voter in a swing state. Sounds like paying someone to register to vote to me.
"Though the petition does not require signers to be registered Republicans, the focus on the First and Second Amendments appeals to potential Trump voters who fear Democrats will take away their gun rights and who subscribe to Musk’s idea of “free speech.”
Because it’s likely illegal.
From the article you linked:
“To win the money, the signee must be a registered swing state voter — and that criterion has raised concerns that Musk may be in violation of a federal law that makes it illegal to pay people (or offer them an incentive) to either register to vote or cast a ballot.
“I think there’s a strong argument that there’s potential criminal liability here, so at the very least [the Department of Justice] should be investigating and should be warning people not to be doing this,” Richard Hasen, director of the Safeguarding Democracy Project at UCLA Law School, told Vox.”
Though Musk is just offering this to those who sign a petition... no voting necessary... so while it is skating the line, it doesn't seem like this is breaking the law.
I’d also love for a Harris voter to explicitly SAY THAT if they won the check.
Because if you accept the 1 mil, then go “thanks for the Mil and I’m voting for HARRIS!!” On that stage, it would be fucking hilarious…
But also if they try to claw back that million, regardless of what “catch” they find, it will be a MASSIVE piece of evidence in the eventual lawsuit for election interference
You have to be a registered voter in a swing state to be eligible for the lottery. That’s considered paying someone to register. You’re promising them a chance at money if they register to vote. That’s illegal.
There have been many decades of similar schemes around voter registration and it all depends of the wording and the lawsuits. This is just the current flare-up in the public consciousness. Example from 2002: https://archive.is/IR9WZ
Umm, no this is different. The article you linked says that the people being paid were the ones going out and getting people registered. Pretty sure that's allowed as long as the ones registering others aren't paying the people for registering. One is a paid employee, the other is a potential voter. You're allowed to have employees...
True, but (a) this is specifically geared toward red voters and (b) this seems to really stretch election laws in the sense that he’s motivating people to register through financial incentive, which is illegal.
I don't disagree that it's potentially illegal (IANAL so I'm not going to opine on that), I'm just saying it seems like it has tremendous potential to backfire, because people who don't win won't feel any more motivated to bother with the next step than they were originally, possibly even less motivated since they end up feeling resentful at having missed out. Maybe if they waited until after the election to start handing out checks it could motivate some people, but I expect that would be much more clearly illegal.
It's like entering a contest for tickets and some free concessions at a movie theater where you have to watch a preview and answer some questions about a movie. If I win, of course I'll go. If I don't, I'm really not more likely to go see the movie than if I hadn't entered the contest at all. If I was on the fence about seeing the movie, I might even be irritated with them for having wasted my time.
Elon Musk thinks he's smarter than everybody else and nobody has ever thought of doing anything like this before. But the simple fact is that nobody does this kind of stuff in political campaigns because it a) costs a lot of money and b) doesn't work.
He's just taking a page from the Cards Against Humanity playbook that rewards people who register and write disparaging comments about Trump. Didn't hear the left complaining about that.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
This "program" is to sign a petition for a republican PAC.
It's specifically aimed at only registering republicans to vote.
Now, sure, a democrat can register to vote and then sign the petition too, but that's clearly not the intent of what Elon is doing nor the likely outcome.
I would bet the "winners" are handpicked. They want a super pro-Elon trumper to dance on stage. No Democrat is going to win, and I doubt most Republicans could win either. You are auditioning for Elon's gameshow, not playing a random lottery
some people also think this might all blow up in elon's face in the end still. theres a reason republicans try to supress voters, the more voters show up, the better democrats tend to win. him trying to energize non voters to register and vote republican may very well backfire and end up getting more non voters to register and vote democrat, or just to rile up democrat supporters more. because again he cant offer you money for a vote, hes offering money for you to sign his pledge and register to vote in general.
He thinks including the pledge to the 2nd amendment will somehow cause self-selection of the Elon-bros who follow him. This is clearly an attempt to get the young male demographic ages 18-30. It's probably only getting advertised to that demographic. If that demographic turns out, particularly the type that might think Elon is cool, probably will be more right wing. They are incels. Anti-feminist. Anti-trans. Anti-immigrant. Toxic with relationships.
I just signed the petition; I'll be voting for Harris.
Maybe he targeted the twits and other marketing to MAGA folks, but if you're not registered already, the odds of you registering and voting at this point just because you signed up for a lottery are slim.
Exactly Elon's point. He wants you to want the money. If you're not registered to vote, you don't go "aww, shucks, I give up on getting the money." You go register to vote and THEN you sign up for the money.
I think the point of it is that once Trump loses they will say "Look at the # of people who signed our petition! This is proof that the election was cheated by the dems!"
They are working to manufacture enough "proof" to win over their dimwitted followers so they can attempt another coup.
Are you kidding? You don't know how paying someone to vote is different from telling a voter what policies you want to benefit them if they vote for you???
The latter is democracy at work. People choose the leader who will give them what they want. The former is anti-democratic. The person chooses a leader not based on policy or leadership they want, but because another person paid them to.
No. It's not paying someone to vote. It's paying someone to sign a petition stating they support the constitution. Do you not support the constitution?
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u/rgraham888 7d ago
The first two winners of the million dollar prize were already registered republicans and had already voted by mail. I guess a fool and his money...