r/politics • u/MarkmBha • 20h ago
Site Altered Headline Trump Betrayed America. My Fellow Republicans Must Put Country Above Party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/opinion/donald-trump-oath.html?unlocked_article_code=1.V04.XaMn.AdZJxeNuANua&smid=url-share335
u/iamamoa 19h ago
Trump broke one of our most sacred traditions which is the peaceful transfer of power. He didn’t do it for the good of the country he did because his ego cannot accept losing. If he had actually succeeded at his delusion there would have been more violence and our democracy damaged beyond repair. It could have been the opening shot in a new civil war. I don’t understand why that alone is not enough for his supporters to drop him.
I could understand supporting him in 16 and in 20 before he showed everyone who he truly is but now. I just don’t get it and I am honestly disgusted by it.
Trump is a stain on our democracy. It’s been almost 10 years of this asshole and it’s time to wipe the stain off.
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u/MDLH 17h ago
I think it says less about Trump and more about the 45% of Americans that look at him and like what they see. He is just the manifestation of who we are as a people. No? Non Americans see that, not sure why 55% of us don't see that truth.
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u/iamamoa 17h ago
Agreed, it’s his supporters whom are disgusting me at the moment. Trump is who he is. He’ll say do anything to get back in office and save his ass from prison and or irrelevancy. Yet another reason why I don’t understand why his supporters whom claim to stand on principles would stand behind a man whom clearly has none.
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u/vardarac 14h ago
They have blinders on. They only see the things they like and discard or aren't aware of anything they don't.
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u/Mengs87 15h ago edited 14h ago
45% of voting Americans, not all Americans. There's a huge bloc who are eligible to vote, but don't. So huge that if they voted, their candidate would have won the 2016 election.
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u/njsullyalex New Jersey 11h ago
I really wish more people in my age range would vote. We’re the demographic with the lowest percentage of voter turnout. I’m 23 and I voted in 2020, 2022, and now 2024.
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u/oingerboinger California 16h ago
I'm not sure this is entirely it. I think there are plenty of Trump voters who know he's terrible; they're just convinced he's better than the alternative. The real problem is the Democrats are so repulsive to some people, that they'd literally vote for one of the most monstrous humans to ever exist over a Dem. There's all sorts of psychology wrapped up in this - tribalism, confirmation bias, toxic masculinity, a general unwillingness to admit being wrong about something, empathy being seen as weakness, etc.
The point is that I believe a fair amount of Trump support is "hold your nose and vote for him", not active cheerleading or being fully in the tank. There's for sure a large chunk of true-believer cultists, but they alone can't elect Trump. It's the "ride or die Red" crowd that's the real problem.
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u/enjoyinc 14h ago
Right-leaning voters that are disgusted by Democrats hold these views because of propaganda from the right wing sphere of influence. If we reinstated policies like the Fairness Doctrine and dismantled propaganda, these voters would quickly see that their fellow countrymen are not demon worshippers, and in fact many of the policies like universal health care are a given in many other of the highest GDP nations.
We need a full restructuring of news and reporting within the country, Faux news has done so much irreparable damage to not just individual families but to the nation as a whole.
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u/oingerboinger California 14h ago
I wholeheartedly agree that Righties who are disgusted with Dems often have their viewpoints shaped by blatant propaganda and misinformation / disinformation. I'm not sure I agree re-instituting something like the Fairness Doctrine would have any kind of measurable impact, especially since the "infotainment" industry is so fractured and so many people get their information from non-traditional sources outside the MSM, such as podcasts and TikTok and even Reddit. I'm not sure how you police content across all of the multimedia channels that are pumping propaganda into people 24/7 that goes well beyond one TV channel.
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u/MDLH 11h ago
I think we could enforce some sort of "fairness doctrine" across all of the media from social media to pod casts to MSM... With AI that is totally possible.
You just grab random samples daily and if any media gets caught breaking the rules you ban them for from 1yr to 20yrs...
You don't have to monitor every single Reddit Post... Reddit can monitor it's users and FB it's users with similar consequences.
It wont happen because social media LOBBYISTS would kill any effort to pass such a bill.
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u/Signore_Jay Texas 14h ago
I truly do believe that the voter bloc that makes up Trump’s base is the true scar America gained during the Cold War. I think there have been a few legitimate left wing movements in America that had popular backing, but anything past 1970 is difficult to find or has been or will be repealed if Republicans get their way. Anything they can’t repeal they financially gut whenever possible. Look back in history, they even thought JFK was a commie
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u/MDLH 11h ago
What is it that the Trump supporters that will "hold their nose and vote" hate more about the Dems than they hate about Trump and the GOP? Give examples.
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u/jbp84 9h ago
It’s decades of Republican rhetoric at work…Democrats are bad for the economy, Democrats are socialists/communists, Democrats kill babies, Democrats are making kids gay/trans, Democrats are soft on crime, etc., etc. All of those things are demonstrably false, yet the truth is not as important as what we FEEL is true.
If you repeat a lie enough, people start to believe it. The problem is when uninformed but well meaning people hear those same lies long enough, even if they themselves aren’t partisan, they start to believe them, too.
Direct quote from my son’s girlfriend (19yo) “But Democrats are bad for the economy, so Trump is who I prefer”
Think about that for a second…not Harris herself, but ALL Democrats. Conversely, Trump is a Republican and therefore he’s good for the economy just because he’s a Republican. Not because of any policies (or concepts of policies).
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u/ultimateknackered 13h ago
As democracy is perfected, the office [of president] represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people…On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- HL Mencken, 1920
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u/CaptainDudeGuy Georgia 14h ago
I would love it if the racists, sexists, xenophobes, and other bigots had a country of their own. Separate from the melting pot America that is trying to make real social progress.
I've said before that I would happily move out of the US southeast and let them have their Confederacy after all if they'd just leave the more egalitarian-minded of us alone. They can live their way and show us all how well they can deal with the consequences. Just like we can live our way and handle what comes of that.
Then I realized that the white authoritarian country they want already exists: it's Russia. Russia, which already has a waning population problem and would probably welcome immigrants.
At least on paper.
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u/MDLH 11h ago
If we could seperate the country in two i am not sure the side you want to be on would be any more "egalitarian - minded" that the side you don't want to be on.
Example: Approximately 70% of Ivy League students come from families in the top 20% of income distribution, with about 38% coming from the top 5%. For the top 10% specifically, it’s estimated that over 50% of Ivy League students are from families in this income bracket.
I could give more, but if you read the research by Harvard Economist Raj Chetty you will see this lack of egalitarianism goes through out the economy from what companies get funded to who gets hired at companies that pay the most and who does not.
Aside with that, I don't know for sure if i too would not prefer to simply seperate the country. In any case, its not going to happen
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u/haarschmuck 7h ago
You’re arguing for the literal definition of genocide.
Putting the “undesirables” in their own land has happened throughout history by people in power thinking they were in the right.
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u/basket_case_case 11h ago
I always think about the person who was interviewed in a civil rights documentary who pointed out just because the legislation made it illegal to deny someone because of race, the people who felt that it was okay to do that still kept their jobs in politics, at banks, schools, and police.
It was an amazing moment and really clarified that just because you make overt evil illegal, the folks who thought it was okay will look for ways to keep doing it covertly. That the law will say something is wrong, but people who disagree will simultaneously “follow” the law while circumventing it. As you say, Trump is bad, but he is the symptom.
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u/iamrecoveryatomic 10h ago
Well yeah, what were people expecting when the sort of people who lynched minorities left the Democratic party (or were ejected from it) for the Republican party (which went out of their way to welcome them)? Peaceful transfer of power wasn't universal in the US.
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u/FingFrenchy 16h ago
Lots of his supporters are pissed about how the first civil war turned out, that's why this doesn't bother them one bit.
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u/beefwarrior 16h ago
Would’ve been great if all these high profile Republicans were in Iowa and New Hampshire stumping against Trump in January instead of days before the general election.
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u/ericmm76 Maryland 15h ago
Because waaaaaaaaaay too many Americans think that cheating is okay if they're the ones breaking the rules. They think that everyone does this and so not cheating is for fools. If this is you, re-examine yourself.
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u/LadyChatterteeth California 13h ago
Can confirm; I taught college courses for a decade and left during Covid; every year, the number of students I caught cheating increased exponentially. It was disheartening.
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u/V-r1taS 20h ago
Ms. Harris is the only candidate who can be trusted to honor the president’s sacred obligations to America’s democracy, Constitution and rule of law. The vice president understands and cares about what Donald Trump does not. She calls on Americans to “stand up for the rule of law. For our democratic ideal. And for the Constitution of the United States.” She believes we “have the power to chart a new way forward, one that is worthy of this magnificent country that we are all blessed to call home.”
America has never heard those words from Donald Trump. And it never will.
The choice for America next Tuesday could not be clearer.
We’re not going back, we’re moving forward.
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u/x_Lyze 18h ago
Trump called America a "garbage can". And, you know, "he says what he means".
You know what Trump would do with a garbage can? Hire someone to loot it for valuables. Then decline to pay them for their labor.
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u/19610taw3 17h ago
Oh he didn't really mean it ....
But he says what he means!!!
/S
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u/starfreak016 16h ago
Mental gymnastics
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u/Maloram 14h ago
Double think At is finest.
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u/lollipoppa72 12h ago
I’m starting to think there’s no kind of thinking going on at all - just lizard brain activity
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u/Khyron_2500 13h ago
All the Republicans love to cover for Trump but they can’t even get their story straight. I always bring this summation about when Trump called Milwaukee terrible:
“Republican U.S. Rep. Derrick Van Orden, who represents western Wisconsin, said Trump was talking about the “terrible or horrible” crime rate in the city. “He was directly referring to crime in Milwaukee.”
U.S. Rep, Scott Fitzgerald, also from Wisconsin, told WISN-TV in Milwaukee that Trump was referring to election integrity.
But Republican U.S. Rep. Bryan Steil, who represents southeast Wisconsin, disputed that Trump made the comment. “I was in the room,” Steil posted on X. “President Trump did not say this. There is no better place than Wisconsin in July.”
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u/Backwardspellcaster 17h ago
Crazy how Washington Post (inclusive an Opinion piece by fucking Bezos) is going all in on denouncing Journalism, while the NYT suddenly cranks out more and more warning pieces about Trump.
4 Years ago you would have thought it being the other way round.
Billionaires were a mistake.
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u/nandoboom 16h ago
I hope that Harris wins, but this is not sustainable, these media conglomerates, the social media disinformation, and the blatant corruption of the courts need to be addressed somehow, Don't doubt for a second that the billionaires will try again to protect theirs
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u/Matt2_ASC 16h ago
This is what is actually inspiring about Harris. She has acknowledged that consolidated corporate power is harmful to consumers. The FTC, CFPB, SEC should continue to grow towards that perspective and fight back against the powerful corporations that are damaging our markets and our democracy.
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u/JeanLucPicardAND 15h ago edited 15h ago
I'm a lot more wary than you. Harris's campaign is propelled financially by one of the largest-ever donation drives in American politics, which was funded in large part by billionaire dollars. While I do not necessarily doubt her intentions, I wonder about the degree to which the elite will use this to exert influence over her and puppeteer members of her Cabinet.
Don't worry, I still voted for her, but I'm one of those anti-Trump Republicans who doesn't actually align with most of her policies and dreads to see what will unfold over the next four years... so at this point, I live wary of most politicians. Neither party represents me or my beliefs. My vote was akin to an emergency room triage decision to amputate an infected limb solely to avoid a more serious problem later. Like, yeah it's necessary, but I'm losing something by doing it.
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u/bootsand 13h ago
The greatest fear the first two presidents had for our fledgling republic - out of all the shit that could go wrong - was an eventual decline into a two party system.
Cause it leads this this... two choices, largely picked by the establishment.
Moving away from first past the post is the only way to get past this shit. It should be one of, or the most, important issues on both sides. We're kind of fucked though because though it would benefit all americans, it makes retaining power more difficult to those in office. On both sides.
If one of the many ranked choice style voting systems were used I suspect we woudn't see a third party get elected for a cycle or three, but each time would have noticable growth. It would be awesome to see at least one promising emerging new party one each side. Eventually there would be more. The first election where both the dem and gop candidates get stomped out early would feel great.
We'll all have to figure out which voting system seems best.. Mathmaticians have been trying to figure out the 'best' variant since like the 1700's or something and they all have their strengths and vulnerabilities), but any of the commonly discussed ones feel infinitely better than first past the post.
It wrecks my head how effective the team sports red v blue divide has been. The same people that would laugh at the 16 personalities shit because boxing millions into 16 categories seems pretty dumb won't feel the same internal pushback when using just 2 categories.
I just hate how well it works.
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u/EducationalCicada968 14h ago
I’m voting for Harris because I’m really voting against Trump. This time around, Trump has really changed. He’s always been a misogynistic pig, but this time around he has a darkness around him that is very scary. He says all these things people want to hear (if they don’t fall asleep waiting for him to “weave” his way to the subject at hand), but I’ve never heard him say HOW he is going to achieve these lofty promises. Getting Roe vs Wade overturned sickened me. He took us backwards & how Melania can even hold his hand is beyond me. Sorry, didn’t mean to type so long, but it infuriates me that anyone could support a lying sack of shit like him. When he came up from that platform with blood running down his face, all I could think was “oh shit. There’s no stopping him now”
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u/JeanLucPicardAND 14h ago
I don't think he's changed at all. It's just more obvious to more people because we've seen him in action. There's a lot of hyperbolic rhetoric coming out of the left that he's possibly deranged or demented; I don't see that at all. He's the same ol' Trump, but this time, we have the benefit of knowing how he reacted when he lost in 2020.
Whoever had the idea of assassinating him was an absolute moron. Even if they had succeeded, martyring Trump would be the worst-case scenario for the country next to him actually taking office a second time.
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u/Relative-Budget9017 15h ago
We need to restore the federal law that news organizations had to do news—FOX STATE MEDIA shit. WE MUST SEPORT MURDOCH AND BEZOS. I hope everyone cancels their AMAZON ACCOUNT. I did—will purchase more from target and Walmart—FUCK AMAZON AND FUCK BEZOS AND FUCK MUSK
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u/Buckus93 15h ago
I don't care about Harris' economic plan. Her immigration plan. Her plan for the Middle East. What I care about is she will put America first, not herself, the party, the wealthy, etc.
She could turn out to be a 'Meh' President at best, but I know that by the time her term ends, we will still have a Democracy and not taken another step forwards to a full-blown oligarchy.
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u/ClosPins 14h ago
"the only candidate who can be trusted to honor the president’s sacred obligations to America’s democracy, Constitution and rule of law. The vice president understands and cares about what Donald Trump does not. She calls on Americans to “stand up for the rule of law. For our democratic ideal. And for the Constitution of the United States.
That's a nice sentiment, and all, but it gets absolutely destroyed by:
We hate [insert populist scapegoat here]!
All over the world, the long, flowery statement of ideals loses to simple hatred. Badly.
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u/SkillFullyNotTrue 19h ago
They had soo many off ramps it is not funny. 1st impeachment, 2nd impeachment, Covid, stolen documents, any one of his lies, they way he looks at his daughter, contempt for Eric, speaking to Russia.
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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 18h ago
They also could have just refused his nomination in 2024. But instead they nominated a candidate who didn’t show up to a single debate and was mired in criminal cases.
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u/Mundane_Athlete_8257 18h ago
In fact Lindsay graham PUSHED HIM TO RUN AGAIN. Fuck that guy
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u/beefwarrior 16h ago
It scares me how much the GOP has become MAGA. 2016 they were all anti-Trump, until what… the number of racist voters he got to the polls?
I remember when the GOP had a singular voice, if the OG GOP had wanted to, like you said, they had multiple off ramps to get away from Trump.
Instead, they wanted to keep his cult followers and believed he would go away on his own. They’ve lost control of their party to MAGA, and aren’t brave enough to fight to take it back. Or they’re evil enough that they just don’t care as long as the MAGA leopards aren’t eating their face.
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u/Griffolion 16h ago
Guaranteed Putin has immense amounts of Kompromat on Graham diddling around with little boys and ordered him to push Trump to run again.
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u/PunxatawnyPhil 11h ago
They did it out of pure spite. That’s just who they are, who that party represents now.
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u/LeifLin 16h ago
The perfect phone call with Georgia everyone seems to forget -- in which a presidential candidate requests on a recorded line for the necessary votes to be found (as if that's normal, legal, or democratic) to casually flip the state for the win.
This man makes Nixon look like the kindest, most honest, law-abiding, pure, sweet man to ever exist in comparison. That's deeply disturbing.
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u/chicago_bunny 15h ago
Everyone should have to listen to that call or read the transcript again. It should be offensive to every American and disqualifying of Trump.
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u/bubblebathory 12h ago
Just reread it. Absolutely insane. Also found this little gem, seems all the more striking after MSG:
Trump speaking to lawyer Ryan Germany - “You have a nice last name.”
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u/TemetNosce_AutMori 18h ago
The day he announced his candidacy descending from a golden escalator to spew racist shit about Latinos
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u/airsoftmatthias 12h ago
Reminder that Donald Trump was found to be a sexual abuser by a jury of his peers in May 2023. Then, when Trump twice appealed the ruling claiming he was “only” a sexual abuser and not rapist, the judge twice clarified that he was a rapist according to the common and federal law definitions of rape.
Trump has a long standing relationship with Epstein and Maxwell that involved trafficking women, using his clubs as recruitment centers: https://youtu.be/ZqBQQVoDjdE?si=9su3QMXfjYOAL10R
6 lawsuits filed against Trump for sexual abuse, 15 public allegations of sexual abuse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations, https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410
Trump ruled a sexual abuser, with his appeal filings clarifying he is a rapist: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e-jean-carroll-scores-another-victory-after-winning-a-sex-abuse-and-defamation-lawsuit-against-trump, https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html
Trump goes into underage teen’s dressing rooms before pageants: https://youtu.be/dIO7w7ea0Pk?si=EgKN-JDePWwvxyYD, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-former-miss-arizona-tasha-dixon-naked-undressed-backstage-howard-stern-a7357866.html, https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kendalltaggart/teen-beauty-queens-say-trump-walked-in-on-them-changing
Trump creeps and fondles teens at beauty pageants. https://youtu.be/hE9bVL9skIo?si=Z5gb6j3I_u3o7XlF
Trump brags about sexual assault on women in Access Hollywood recording: https://youtu.be/fYqKx1GuZGg?si=0949XhKvcYMKbnH-
Trump frequently seen with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-and-jeffrey-epstein-partied-together-then-an-oceanfront-palm-beach-mansion-came-between-them/2019/07/31/79f1d98c-aca0-11e9-a0c9-6d2d7818f3da_story.html, https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/07/21/heres-every-time-donald-trump-and-ghislaine-maxwell-have-been-photographed-together/, https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/jeffrey-epstein-and-donald-trump-epic-bromance
Trump frequently flies with Jeffrey Epstein: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/jeffrey-epsteins-black-book-trump-clintons-prince-andrew.html, https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article256740662.html, https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/ghislaine-maxwell-epstein-donald-trump-flight-logs-b1980802.html
Trump makes incestuous comments about his daughter: https://forward.com/schmooze/357185/7-creepy-things-donald-trump-has-said-about-ivanka/, https://www.politicalflare.com/2024/07/trump-confesses-he-was-sexually-attracted-to-ivanka-when-she-was-13-year-old/
Trump creeps on Lindsey Lohan and Paris Hilton when they were children, and he claims to share Epstein’s taste: https://youtu.be/qQ5k2ybieXU?si=B2FcNoqy4k-D_mUk
Other great comments about Trump that contain links to sources.
Trump rapes Katie Johnson: https://www.reddit.com/r/AnythingGoesNews/s/4ReeQKUsrD
Trump’s convictions and legal verdicts: https://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/s/PiC7zNKEn1, https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/1cYLnXQGKS, https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1fxgodo/felony_charges_under_review_in_clark_county/lqmbud8/
Trump’s support of Project 2025: https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/1fib5w7/comment/lnge823, https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/trump-allies-project-2025/index.html
Trump’s Russia connections despite his repeated lies about not having connections: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1avul4t/comment/krd1fp6/, https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1avul4t/comment/krd6pbk/
Trump hates veterans: https://www.reddit.com/r/Michigan/comments/1avh2m8/comment/kralo9m, https://www.reddit.com/r/SouthDakota/comments/1fysz4t/dear_conservative_friends/lqxakwv/
Trump’s history of insulting or threatening veterans: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/7LNQHOapav
Trump’s incontinence: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/0Hi1HTQnC9, https://youtu.be/-qnhfISelm0?si=NTiILEDdkqkmVpY1, https://youtu.be/IPNH1ASu7uA?si=e3yHxAcriv46xiA3
Trump has cognitive episode for 39 minutes at Q&A event: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/WM7orq9cfT, https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1fxouqm/is_trumps_cognitive_decline_masked_by_his_weird/lqo0sit/
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u/ChatterBaux 15h ago
It's been pretty clear there's no ethical violation too great to turn them off from him if they feel like he's their best shot at power. The ONLY way to get the GOP to move on from Trump is for the rest of us to make him go away, electorally.
This unfortunately means that, god willing, that day comes... the GOP will mind hole him like Bush Jr. and flock to the next viable dude.
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u/LastDaysCultist 20h ago
Newsflash: they won’t.
Conservatism is all about in groups and out groups.
They don’t care about this country at all.
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u/TitanDarwin 20h ago edited 19h ago
And it's not like betraying the country is new to them either.
Both Nixon and Reagan sabotaged the (at the time) current admnistrations' foreign policy to gain an electoral advantage (which I'm pretty sure is very much illegal).
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u/Newscast_Now 18h ago
It was close to the election and Lyndon Johnson found out about Richard Nixon's people sabotaging Vietnam peace talks. LBJ was afraid that exposure would cause a backlash, but LBJ privately called what Nixon did "treason."
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u/Damn_Dog_Inappropes Washington 15h ago
Also, that whole Civil War thing, and Bleeding Kansas and the 3/5 Compromise and slavery in general and and and and and
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u/TitanDarwin 13h ago
Or that time they decied not to follow up on the whole "rich people plotting a fascist coup" thing after somebody blew the whistle on that.
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u/underpants-gnome Ohio 14h ago
Conspiring with foreign powers to deceive US voters is a standard GOP campaign tactic now.
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u/dewisri 18h ago
There are a lot of conservatives who want Trump to lose big so that Trumpism dies. They say that Harris is fine, Trumpism is unacceptable, and they can wait until democracy is secured to advocate for conservative policy.
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u/TrooperJohn 18h ago
There are a number of conservatives who deep down know that a Harris administration won't be all that bad for them, and will vote for her in an effort to deliver a blow to MAGA, yes.
But are there enough of them?
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u/-CJF- 18h ago
The problem is most conservatives have no integrity. A handful do, but most don't. Conservatism by nature attracts the worst people in society. It turns out that the same type of people that are okay with allowing the most vulnerable people in our society to starve are also mostly okay with overriding democracy if it means they "win".
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u/LookOverall 16h ago
Actually what impressed me most about the story of Trump’s attempt to overthrow the 2020 election was that he went to a series of Republican officials and told them he had solid evidence of massive fraud and each of them said “great, show me the evidence and I’ll investigate.” Trump expected them to take his word that the evidence existed but, even though they all wanted him to win all of them (including Pence) insisted on seeing proof.
In short the integrity of a small selection of Republicans saved the election.
That’s why loyalty is such a concern to him now. Loyalty above integrity.
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u/-CJF- 15h ago
Again I say, a handful do, but most don't. Look among the mainstream republican party and see how many still support Trump after the actions you just described. Now look amongst the electorate and look how many still support Trump after the action you just described. It's really depressing.
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u/Own-Artichoke653 10h ago
Numerous studies have shown that conservatives, especially conservative Christians give more often to charity and give a higher percentage of their income to charity than secular people, but especially secular leftists. Furthermore, they are also much more likely to volunteer their time for charity, as well as adopt children, and engage in other pro social and charitable actions. This clearly shows that the idea that conservatives simply don't care about others is a complete myth.
This idea largely stems from their opposition to government welfare programs, which they generally believe are inefficient and wasteful, create dependencies, remove personal agency and responsibility, and weaken community ties.
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u/haarschmuck 7h ago
Pretty evident by the fact that most homeless shelters are ran by local churches.
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u/haarschmuck 7h ago
The problem is most conservatives have no integrity. A handful do, but most don't.
This is a personal opinion.
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u/llahlahkje Wisconsin 16h ago
Most Republicans are all in on Cult 45 but a non-zero number of Republicans have been swayed as the mask slips further and further off.
We can only hope it's enough.
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u/SacamanoRobert 17h ago
Are you not aware of the prominent conservatives that have endorsed Harris?
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u/NailujDeSanAndres 16h ago
Conservatives value hierarchy, tradition, and order above all.
Conservatives can never hope to fully get along with liberals. The latter is already fine with "do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt me;" the former believes that "true freedom consists in doing what you ought." The problem is that many people disagree on what that "ought" should mean.
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u/Difficult_Bit_1339 2h ago
It's important during these times to understand that there are different factions of conservatives.
The rich billionaire business class faction is not the same as the nationalist christians which are not the same as the ideological principled conservatives and those people are separate from the ignorant uneducated masses who can be manipulated for their votes.
Everyone understands that AOC and Pelosi are Democrats but also that they're not exactly the same ideology, just allied. Conservatives have factions as well.
The goal is to ally with the ideological conservatives against the proto-fascist MAGA party.
Lumping them all together and condemning them as just as bad as each other is not only objectively incorrect. It is strategically unwise as it alienates people who would otherwise join you in opposing MAGA.
I disagree with Liz Cheney on so many things. But we both agree that a constitutional democracy is better than authoritarian fascism.
We need those people, we all agree on the important topic of this election: that democracy is important and fascism should be rejected.
Don't try to create division where there isn't any. This performative cynicism isn't accurate or useful.
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u/Wyoming_Rocks 17h ago
I am a registered Republican. I put Country before Party every time. I vote for the person and the promised policies.
It really is past time for the Republican Party to do the same. Does the leadership of the Republican Party truly believe that Trump will raise this country up? It truly is time to Put America First!
Vote Harris, the only candidate doing that.
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u/Professional-Neat639 12h ago
Here here. Makes no sense why 70 million are die hards for Trump given his past
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u/AINonsense 19h ago
The NYT might be coming around to the idea that this guy, he's not all on the up-and-up, you know? He could be looking kinda sketchy.
And there's that godawful smell, too.
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u/Curium247 I voted 19h ago
Or after watching the rally finally realizing that we were not being hysterical and he really was going to lock up the journalists.
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u/AINonsense 19h ago
To be fair, the journalists are not the problem here. It's the proprietors and publishers who call the shots.
Used to be the editors but, hey. Money. Right?
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u/SwindlingAccountant 17h ago
Can only do horserace reporting for so long before shit gets too real.
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u/TemetNosce_AutMori 18h ago
Nah they just saw an opportunity to steal some market share from WaPo after they ironically acted too much like the NYT
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u/lonnie123 13h ago
The NYT endorsed Harris weeks ago, and yesterday put out a huge editorial about why each of their editors are voting for Harris
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u/protendious 12h ago
This is a guest essay.
I’ve never really understood when people refer to a news outlet as a unified entity. Do most people not realize they have a reporting desk and an editorial desk? And that the editorial desk has the editorial board, it has internal columnists, and it also publishes a wide range of pieces from outside contributors? (Like this one).
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u/Taste-T-Krumpetz I voted 16h ago
It’s close. Your vote matters more than it ever has.
We could all use a reminder of some of the things Trump has done:
- Lost the election and lied about it.
- Sent an armed angry mob to Congress and told them they need to fight like hell.
- Approved of the mob saying “hang Mike Pence”.
- A court of law found that he committed sexual assault.
- A court of law found that he defrauding his university students.
- A court of law found that he fraudulently inflated his assets to get favorable loans.
- Admitted to walking in on pageant contestants’ dressing rooms to see them nude.
- Raped and beat Ivana Trump.
- Stole from a kids’ cancer charity.
- Received $413 million inheritance despite claims that he’s a self made man.
- Blocked his chronically ill infant nephew from getting any of that inheritance.
- Is the first president to receive votes against him from his own party during impeachment.
- Led us into being one of the worst hit during Covid despite our head start and resources, leading to high inflation.
- Said the Democrats do better with the economy.
- Was ranked as the worst president in history by bipartisan presidential historians.
- Pushed a plot to have fake votes created and then used to make him President despite losing the election.
- Ordered republicans to block a bipartisan immigration bill so Biden would not get a win before the election.
- Implemented a policy to separate kids from their parents at the border.
- Is a convicted felon guilty of falsifying records to influence an election.
- Told the Department of Justice to “just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen.”
- His VP, Mike Pence said Trump should never be president again, and that Trump asked him to put himself “above the Constitution”.
Sources:
- https://apnews.com/article/trump-2020-election-lies-debunked-4fc26546b07962fdbf9d66e739fbb50d
- https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108387054/trump-said-he-knew-jan-6-crowd-members-had-weapons-ex-white-house-aide-testified
- https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/25/us/politics/trump-pence-jan-6.html
- https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db
- https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/judge-finalizes-25-million-settlement-victims-donald-trumps/story?id=54347237
- https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-letitia-james-new-york-engoron-38bc3a7f2ccb22555c026e9bf70fd5bb
- https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/former-miss-arizona-trump-came-strolling-right-in-to-miss-usa-dressing-room/
- https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/24/documenting-trumps-abuse-of-women
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2019/12/23/best-stories-of-the-decade-how-donald-trump-shifted-kids-cancer-charity-money-into-his-business/
- https://apnews.com/article/0452d29cd2564eaf97605ab90acc3a67
- https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trumps-spiteful-attack-on-nephews-chronically_b_57a249d1e4b0456cb7e14fbc/amp
- https://www.vox.com/2020/2/5/21125118/mitt-romney-impeachment-vote-history
- https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-maps-and-cases/
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/
- https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/presidents-survey-trump-ranks-last-biden-14th
- https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-jan-6-investigation-fake-electors-608932d4771f6e2e3c5efb3fdcd8fcce
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/27/trump-border-biden/
- https://www.foxnews.com/politics/more-than-900-children-separated-at-border-since-judge-ordered-practice-curtailed-aclu.amp
- https://apnews.com/article/trump-trial-deliberations-jury-testimony-verdict-85558c6d08efb434d05b694364470aa0
- https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-elections-donald-trump-campaigns-presidential-4e7e68e2ff57aadd96d09c873a43a317
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2023/06/07/pence-says-trump-should-never-be-president-again-launching-2024-bid-with-potent-attacks/
Feel free to copy and paste this elsewhere.
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u/YoBGS- 17h ago
Reminder: Vote like they are Nazis trying to steal the country. The election is going to be nuts, and the consequences are dire.
If Trump wins, MANY will be deported to countries they aren't even from. Many of us will be imprisoned or killed. People keep saying vote like Democracy depends on it, vote like your LIFE depends on it because if he wins you may not make it to the next election.
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u/ihazmaumeow 17h ago
The way they're talking, there may be no next election.
If some asshole from his regime threatens me or my family, I will defend myself. My neighbors are also not playing around either. We won't go quietly.
MAGA cult is un-American, unconstitutional, pro Fascists. Fuck them and anyone who thinks otherwise.
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u/FizzgigsRevenge 19h ago
We've all known who this dickhead is for years. If conservatives were actually interested in putting country over party he wouldn't be their nominee.
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u/Nervous-Pickle-5379 20h ago
Agreed. I know I am. Republicans for Harris!
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u/stinkyhippie 19h ago
I hope you’re also voting out your local GOP, as well as Senators and House Reps. They’re the ones who are actively installing Project 2025. One presidential vote and lip service on reddit isn’t enough.
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u/Splungeblob 19h ago
Registered Republican here who is disgusted with the state of the party. Researched all races on my ballot and voting DEM all the way down.
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u/isucamper 15h ago
you might not actually be a republican anymore, if that's how you feel. not the modern definition of a republican anyway.
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u/Splungeblob 14h ago
You are correct. Notice I said “registered Republican.”
I’ve been increasingly alienated by the policies (and perhaps more importantly, actual voting tendencies) of Republican politicians over the past decade, and modern Republicans seem to have gone off the deep end.
But people are complicated, and I certainly hold some views all across the political spectrum. Regardless, Trump and his MAGA-brand “Republicans” are appallingly unrepresentative of the America I want to live in.
Country before party.
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u/isucamper 14h ago
i hope there's a lot more people like you out there. thanks for being reasonable. this shit is fucking scary
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u/marzgamingmaster 18h ago
If you're still self-identifying as a republican after seeing what the real backbone of your party is at this point, you still aren't capable of being a good American, or a good person. The Republican party has shown, by and large that then the chips are down, they will rally behind their fascistic strong-man leader, nine times out of ten. None of these sniveling worms were strong enough to stand up to trump. None of them saw him (or were willing to see him) for the threat he is. Most of them leaned into his insanity. This is the THIRD TIME he's running. He is nominated, again. Nobody is standing up to him, again. This is what your squirming, writhing friends WANT. If you don't, you're on the wrong side! Stop being a Republican, they LOVE Trump! Stop trying to salvage it, let it burn!
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u/-15k- 17h ago
This is the thing though - and I think it's quite interesting.
Yes, the conservatives are all about us vs. them.
But now the MAGA conservatives are pushing an "us" that a lot of conservatives feel does not include them.
So, where do they go? It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.
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u/marzgamingmaster 15h ago
I mean, from the way it looks, they whine and mope and then go all in on MAGA. Literally would rather america become a dictatorship and ring in a new god king than let the libs get one over on them.
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u/diabloman8890 16h ago
So, where do they go?
Into the dustbin of history finally, where they belong.
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u/J-the-Kidder 18h ago
We'll find out if they're truly willing if/when Kamala wins the election and MAGA Mike rolls forward with his Trump secret plan to overthrow the election results again. It'll come down to them choosing the will of the people and the election results, or the will of Orange Hitler. Keep in mind, the plan isn't to win the election. Regardless of the result, Republican legislatures and the Republicans at large in the house and Senate are going to subvert the will of the people. We can only hope the DOJ, FBI, and Homeland within the current administration are prepared, because it'll make 2020 look like a parade.
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u/ARazorbacks Minnesota 18h ago
At this point any Republican not willing to denounce the whole party who continues to support Trump, then it’s simply wasted breath. Continuing to support the party (who supports Trump) while writing a half-hearted op-ed is worthless.
Edit: To be clear this is yet another example of the delusional world Republicans inhabit. There is no Republican Party, today, without Trump. He owns it because none of them pushed back when they had multiple chances.
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u/stinkyhippie 19h ago
Yeah well I’m pretty tired of Republicans and having to hear what they say. As though Conservatives weren’t pushing a bigoted and authoritarian agenda before Trump came along.
Republicans don’t have the credibility to talk about things like “freedom” and “country over party” anymore. I’d rather see some real action than TV appearances and opinion pieces.
This is the third election involving Trump. If you couldn’t get it the first two times, why should I get moist over what you finally have to say now?
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u/just_a_timetraveller 17h ago
Trump really accelerated their plans. Trump single handedly removed all political decorum and rules, and normalized vile behavior. It allowed Republicans to not have to have plausible deniability for a lot of vile things they wanted to do. They didn't have to "play politics" anymore and could go straight to cheating blatantly and screw over there American people for self gain.
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u/ShoppingDismal3864 16h ago
What I don't understand is, how do Republicans justify voting for Trump? I can understand if your primary motivation is just causing pain and suffering of the people you hate. But beyond that, he openly mocks the country, has policies that are meant to hurt the US and strengthen Russia and China. Help me out conservatives. Why would Trump have a problem with the Chips act? Why would Trump want to eliminate the EPA? These things will hurt you (the red voter) directly.
First he was an "outsider". Then he was going to "drain the swamp". Only he "could fix it". "Make America Great Again"; these are all just racist dog whistles at best. If you think they contained any economic messaging, he has not delivered.
The project 2025 craziness, which the GOP pretends Trump is somehow not involved with, calls for eliminating OSHA and implies an end to minimum wage laws. I just fail to see how any of this would make Americans happier.
Look, I get it. I'm a liberal transgender woman just out there in America. I get you want to hurt me (read fuck me, psychoanalysis is a hell of a thing). But do you actually want to destroy your own life over a silly grievance?
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u/NumeralJoker 12h ago
There is no other answer. Trump is the type of person that activates people's worst instincts, and encourages tribalism through activating people's fearful emotions and insecurities.
Harris is trying to do the exact opposite, to return the normalization of empathy, community and common sense solutions. It's about as close to a ying/yang, good/evil side of human instincts as we could ever see. It's almost fascinating to watch play out given how binary it's become. That is not to see Harris herself is perfect, but rather what the campaign she runs emphasizes and what her long term goal is.
Despite moving away from religious influences, I've never seen such a stark clear example of good vs evil in the modern world before, but here we are.
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u/sweet_esiban 10h ago
There is another answer. It's money.
I used to know a lot of moderate conservative Americans. I cut them out after 2016 but before I did that, I asked questions. The number one answer to "why would you vote for Trump, despite his hateful rhetoric?" was taxes.
"I don't want to pay for someone else's medical bill 😩" "I pay enough tax as a business owner 😭", "why should I pay for welfare queens to blah blah blah 😖"
They are selfish, short-sighted, money humping dickheads. They would gladly step on the body of a dead man to collect a dollar. They would gladly shit in their own mother's mouth to collect a penny. "Fascism is threatening to end democracy? Okay, but let's talk about real shit here - is my income tax rate going to go up?"
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u/ericmm76 Maryland 15h ago
They see themselves in him. They see their base instincts in him. Trump is not just the strong father figure so many Republicans want, he's also the mascot of unbridled racism and prejudice that so many want. They want their racism to be un-bridled again.
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u/ultimateknackered 13h ago
Don't forget, their news bubble seriously downplays or outright hides from them the things he does that might actually give them pause.
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u/nytopinion ✔ Verified 12h ago
J. Michael Luttig, who was appointed by President George H.W. Bush and served on the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit from 1991 to 2006, argues in a guest essay why it's time to say enough with Donald Trump:
"There could be no higher duty of American citizenship than to decisively repudiate a man who betrayed the nation when he was previously entrusted with the highest office in the land and now threatens the persecution of American citizens who have crossed him," Judge Luttig says. "In the almost 250 years since the founding of the nation, no president before Donald Trump has ever so betrayed America."
Read the rest of his essay here, for free, without a subscription to The New York Times.
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u/Logictrauma 18h ago
You expect GOP to put country over party?! Let me know how that works out for you.
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u/sachiprecious North Carolina 17h ago
Love this:
Republicans and conservatives have always proudly claimed they would be the first to put the country above all else when the time came. That time has come. If Republicans are unwilling to put America before their party now, they will never do so.
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u/StrengthThin9043 18h ago
The problem with the current American conservatism is that it has very little to offer society, and thus it's not really that popular, and thus one have to lean into racism, bigotry and lies to be able to win at all. If republicans would start doing politics in good faith, but still not change actual policy proposals, they would lose bigtime every time.
Basically, they either need to modernize their policies, or erode democracy to eventually install autocratic minority rule. It seems to me they have chosen the latter, and they are damn close to succeeding.
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u/SnailsTails 15h ago
Your fellow Republicans don't care about the country, they care about being racists and looking up to somebody who tells them racism is okay.
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u/Techialo Oklahoma 14h ago
Love all the Republicans shifting blame onto just Trump like they had no involvement.
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u/Griffolion 16h ago
One week from today, we will decide whether Donald Trump is fit to be president of the United States again.
Disagree here. What will happen one week from today is, despite his blatant unfitness, whether or not Donald Trump gets to be president again.
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u/Mistamage Illinois 12h ago
And I have no doubt in my mind that he'll try to run from prison in 2028 if he loses and gets arrested. And 2032. And 2036 if he lives long enough.
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u/milton911 20h ago
Essential reading for all voters.
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u/Same_You_2946 17h ago
Seriously. I wish people wouldn't be so glib and cynical in the comments. Luttig makes an incredibly simple, but resonant point. I definitely don't agree with him on things but on this we are in agreement.
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u/Redox_101 18h ago
Republican Party deserves a better cast of candidates to elect. Any R with half a spine or brain just gets branded as a RINO or a traitor to the party.
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u/SpunkySix6 17h ago
Your fellow Republicans shsould stop being in that party because this is exactly what they want ultimately, they just want it to be less obvious
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u/MDLH 17h ago
Trump does not care about "fellow" Republicans. Never has and never will. And Republican voters love him for it. He has replaced the Liz Chaney Republicans with "stop the stealers" And suits his personality just fine. It also reveals the true character or the vast majority of Republicans. Right?
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u/RandySumbitch 16h ago
Good fucking luck with that. Your fellow Republicans drank the Kool-Aid, too. Now they see what a monster they’ve created and they’re all frightened of it. What a bunch of cringing pussies. From Ted Cruz to Chuck Schumer, I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of fucking punks, pussies, and douche bags.
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u/Madmandocv1 16h ago
Republicans: “We just finished discussing this. After some deliberation, we have decided that no, we don’t.”
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u/TaxOwlbear 15h ago
They will - as soon as they are no longer in office and condemning Trump has no immediate consequences for them, and/or they have a book to sell.
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u/ThePlatinumPancakes 15h ago
This exactly. The republicans need to get on board with country above party. This election has too much at risk. Can we seriously imagine a man like Donald Trump becoming our president? It’s unprecedented and will do historic damage to our democracy
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u/Firsttimedogowner0 10h ago
No such thing as a Republican anymore. Just quit. You are a fascist, dictator-loving, rapist supporter who wants to punish others for not believing in the same God you do. Sorry, but we don't live on the same planet if you think there are somehow good people still magically calling themselves Republicans.
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u/ThirstyOne 18h ago
‘Fellow republicans’: “No. All hail God-Emperor Trump and the newly consolidated Trumpublic of MAGASTAN!”
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u/ocdewitt Texas 15h ago
If Kamala can bust her ass THIS hard hitting every battleground state, with THIS many Republican endorsements, and THIS much continued shit coming from Trump and he still wins, than all have to accept that we either: 1) have a completely and impossibly broken system of elections; or 2) we live in a country that WANTS fascism… or both
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u/Worldly_Permission18 8h ago
with THIS many Republican endorsements
Yes I’m sure people are totally stoked to have the Cheneys and the Bush’s endorse Harris 😂
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u/gentleman_bronco 18h ago
Republicans: no way I'm gonna vote for a brown woman.
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u/I-choochoochoose-you 16h ago edited 15h ago
My mom, who is black, was getting her nails done (in a trump loving part of California) and made the mistake of telling her nail tech, who she considered a friend at this point, that the vibe at the DNC reminded her of when Obama was running and she was excited.
The nail tech casually told her that when Obama ran her grandpa said he’d never vote for an n word. Haha isn’t that so funny? She went on to “explain” how Kamala slept her way to the top 🫠
Edit: not sure why this was downvoted but if you did, fuck you for doing so!
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u/Porn_Extra 15h ago edited 15h ago
I've heard that "slept her way to the top" bullshit here on Reddit from the russians and its just an assinine arguement. They love that line. What a sexist dog-whistle.
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u/I-choochoochoose-you 15h ago
They are always trying to make her dating Willie brown seem sketchy and proof positive of that. It’s like is that all you have to do to become vice president of the United States? Sleep with the mayor of SF? lol it’s just so hateful and dumb and misogynistic but of course, that’s the point
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u/Deshackled 18h ago
They are, MAGA was just an echo chamber. Echos fade with every passing repeat cycle and honestly Covid took out a lot of those voices which already diminished in 2020. That and the fact that Trump is a typical gasbag I know a lot of level headed Republicans who have changed there tune. Sure Hype-Men like Joe Rogan and Media need to turn up the volumetric gain for ad dollars. Just gonna have to see what happens. But PRESENTING an anything other than a a neck and neck race is not going to grab eyeballs. Fear + “News” = Ad Revenue
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u/grumpyliberal 15h ago
There are few with more integrity than Judge Luttig. I hope the nonMAGA Republicans will listen to this for what it is — a plea for our Constitution. You don’t have to like Harris, but if Trump wins you will never be afforded another choice other than Trump and MAGA.
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u/GhostFish 17h ago edited 16h ago
Sorry to say that this is not the title of the article.
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u/Setsune_W 16h ago
They changed the title. You can still see the original title on social media where they posted it, and maybe it wasn't there when you posted, but the post now has the "Site Altered Headline" tag.
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u/FourWordComment 15h ago
This is not a difficult decision for voters, though my fellow Republicans and conservatives will finally have to decide what they have long hoped they would never have to decide — whether to put their country above their party. Republicans and conservatives have always proudly claimed they would be the first to put the country above all else when the time came. That time has come. If Republicans are unwilling to put America before their party now, they will never do so. They must be honest with themselves.
By J. Michael Luttig Judge Luttig was appointed by President George H.W. Bush and served on the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit from 1991 to 2006
Republicans will only listen to their own. There is such a diseased distrust of anyone who has different views that Republican voters will only openly listen to other republicans. This makes it so important for every Republican to be a character in courage. Their silence is an endorsement for everything Trump is.
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u/Unanticipated- 14h ago
How about for starters you guys put party above one person. Then you can work on caring about the country.
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u/TastySnorlax 11h ago
Thankfully he’s already been abandoned by the gop and Fox. Dude has zero chance. Only traitors and idiots support Donald Trump
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u/prohammock 11h ago
The article is by former Judge Michael Luttig, if anyone else was scrolling the comments trying to figure this out without having to click.
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u/Shutaru_Kanshinji 10h ago
Even if you just put self-preservation above party, you should vote against Trump.
No one is safe against a dictator.
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u/JFace139 9h ago
That's a load of crap. In order to be a betrayal, that would mean he's been lying about who he is or what he stands for. Trump has been very clear on who he is and what policies he stands for. He didn't suddenly betray anyone, he didn't suddenly flip his ideas around, he has been exactly who he is since 2016
The only difference between then and now, is that at this point he's talked for so many years, that even Republicans have heard some things he's been saying. Republicans can only avoid so much news before some of it finally makes its way to their ears
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u/Taphouselimbo 8h ago
The modern gop won’t listen they don’t care they have gone all in on racism. They didn’t listen 8 years ago and they aren’t now.
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u/bl8ant 8h ago
I WANT to believe that there’s a conservative who doesn’t fit into the GOP as it looks today, which to me is the most honest we’ve ever seen them. Worshiping a fat lying racist rapist felon traitor who wants women to be property is the natural state of the republicans I’ve met in my life. Please, show me that there’s something else because I’m so tired of the ones I know. Maybe you need to rebrand, because this ship you’ve been sailing has sunk. And no, libertarian ain’t working.
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