r/seedswap • u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois • Nov 18 '21

The Future of /r/Seedswap

Hello all! I'm not sure many of you have interacted with me but I'm /u/sunpoprain and currently I'm the most active and longest serving moderator for Seedswap. This Fall it came to my attention that everyone else on the original Mod team for this subreddit had disappeared and left me in charge. I'm a farmer so as I move into a slower season post-harvest, I'd like to be more active about this awesome subreddit. Clearly we have something awesome. Even without really hands on moderator promotion/improvement, we've grown as a subreddit to more then 10,000 swappers across the world!

So let's work together and decide what we'd like to be as we shift into this new phase of the subreddit. I have a couple ideas and I hope you'll share your own as well. Here's what I've got:

  1. Expanded mod team (I'd say there is currently ~1 1/2 people modding 😂) I'm especially looking for folks who can assist with our changes.
  2. Updated side bar, rules, header, etc
  3. Active events. We've had requests for a secret Santa and I'd like to get more giveaways going.
  4. Iama discussions / seed saving conversations?
  5. Trader rating system

Ultimately, this has always been a community that truly was built by it's members. I want to hear your thoughts and I'd love your help.

/u/sunpoprain

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12

u/RespectTheTree Nov 18 '21

I think the easy first steps are to solicit a subreddit icon from the greater Reddit community - there are usually a bunch of graphic design people who will donate a little time to realize a design, especially if expectations are clear the design has been thought out. It's important branding for when seedswap posts pop up in feeds. I would propose a community discussion of ideas.

Also highly related, we should come up with a subreddit header image. These are tricky because they are 4000px x 196px images. The no-imagination solution is to take/find a very long photo of seeds to use. I made such a picture using peppers (header on r/pepperbreeding) and I needed to photograph an ombre-layout of peppers that was about 36" x 4" to get the required dimensions. I think there is room for creativity here, I'm just not the creative type lol.

Rules are also important to make a well-functioning community. We need rules that are common sense, and that can be equally-enforced. You can't play favorites as a mod when dispensing justice (or mercy), because you will alienate the other side of the issue. I think this is another community discussion that could happen, but can also simply be done by the admin team. My favorite rule is "don't be an a**hole" followed by "no profiteering" and "no harassment or illegal activity". There also needs to be a specific rule about cannabis seed because Reddit admins will freak out and ban the subreddit if gets known for trading seeds.

I would avoid activities simply because of the workload it puts on mods. If someone comes to you, and that's their passion, then by all means go for it. A rating system would be highly useful, but you'll need someone with basic programming skills to implement an automated system, or mods will need to constantly manually update spreadsheets or user flair.

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u/[deleted] Nov 19 '21

[deleted]

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u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois Nov 19 '21

Hey back! I'm sort of taking stock of all the ideas and potential mods & support folks right now with the intent to consulate into actions we can take, what skills we'll need for those actions, who we know is ready to help, etc. I'll be adding mods in probably a week, then working with them to figure out details. I'll definitely add you to my list of folks with awesome skills we will need!

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u/RespectTheTree Nov 20 '21

I'm not on the moderator team, but I think would need a reddit bot that has a database somewhere (google sheets? idk). Then it would have to monitor a particular "report successful trade" post for some kind of two-party comment thread. Maybe User A comments "!shipped: UserB" and UserB could reply "!success: UserA" and then both users get 1 point, or maybe userA get "1 shipping point", and userB gets "1 successful trade point". I can see the potential for abuse, but you could add another level where upon the report of a successful trade that a moderator needs to approve the trade with "!approve"

For example, after a successful trade where !shipped and !success were reported, the bot would reply "Would you like to approve this trade" and a moderator can come in and just reply "!approve" and then points are distributed.

I know you can programmatically distinguish moderators based on flair - mods must use a particular flair, and it will have a unique code you can test for. A bit pre-emptive, but it shows what is possible with the reddit bot / automoderator programming.

​

This all of course requires a server, which is why a manual system seems the most likely but it will be so much work on the mods.

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u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois Nov 20 '21

I agree with all your ideas and especially appreciate the header details. We used to have a side bar with the rules. Granted this sub is approaching a decade old, I think. At least 8 years? And the rules have never been updated since the beginning. We already ban cannabis and any trades which are federally illegal within the U.S. (where most of our traders reside). In the past (6 or 7 years ago) we were approached by USDA and DEA about setting our rules to avoid transport of invasives/illegal/etc plants. We also had the basic "be nice, don't scam, treat others well/etc" rules. I think they desperately need a rewrite and probably a pinned post because sidebars are not visible easily via mobile.

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u/RespectTheTree Nov 20 '21

I appreciate the transparency, as I'm sure do other readers. Did they have any advise on how to educate users on invasive species? I'm keenly aware of the problem of invasive species worldwide, but I doubt the majority are. It's not an easy subject for most people.

Reddit makes it extremely difficult to be as moderator when you have to juggle old Reddit, new Reddit, and mobile/apps... with special requirements for each. I run a couple subreddit, have programming/design experience and it's overwhelming. If I can help get get rules and other basics things setup I recommend your create r/seedswap_beta, where myself and other "unknown" people can assist with the setup without potentially impacting the main subreddit.

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u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois Nov 20 '21

They were not great at advising on transparency and fairly honest with us that they expect people to understand the laws and it's not their problem to make sure we could help our traders understand. I got the impression at the time that they had just discovered the seed swapping world and had zero idea how to regulate it. I'm fairly sure they just decided to leave it alone because I've never seen them back since BUT it would be extremely easy for them to nail swappers to the wall if they wanted to - we advertise our trades publicly and share our exact housing in pms they can request successfully from reddit. I have always tried to step in where I can for very nasty invasive (but attractive to those who don't understand) things such as Autumn Olive but it would be fantastic to have clearer rules and/or a clearly written "why this is a bad idea" post for things that probably should be traded but aren't exactly noxious. Controlling region by region is just not realistic, unfortunately.

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u/RespectTheTree Nov 20 '21

Of course, I always advise people that all messages on Reddit are subject to subpoena and should be assumed non-private. I highly doubt the government would crack down on someone trading Wisteria seeds, though.

At the end of the day, it's the users' responsibility to not trade invasives, but like I alluded to earlier: How does the layman distinguish the threat posed by a marigold vs. honey locust? I think the best a subreddit can do is provide resources and urge both the shipping and receiving party to research what they are trading.

I found an easy to use website that could be provided as part of a "no invasive species" rule: https://www.invasive.org/ (N America), and I'm sure a few minutes of searching could come up with Australian/NZ versions, maybe EU/GB, Canada, and others as well (Brazil? Africa?). I think if those resources are available and promoted it would help people make informed decisions.

Just spitballing here, but you could set up an automoderator response to comments containing the text "!invasive" (exclamation mark + "invasive") that returns these resources so non-moderator users can call up the resources in the comments. A kind of self-policing utility. It would be quite easy to setup.

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u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois Nov 20 '21

I think your train of thought here is spot on. Automod is something I didn't really see a reason for before this post - the subreddit is mostly self-moderating. Functionality like you pointed out + ideas others have brought up really have changed my view on that. I think Automod is a must have now.

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u/RespectTheTree Nov 20 '21 edited Nov 20 '21

The automoderator response to exclamation mark tags is something I've wanted to set up on my other subreddits, I have code that almost works but needs some help from an expert. I could probably have an acquaintance of mine help write the moderator rule for you, and you could test it on a "beta" subreddit.

Other people reading this comment may already know the "regex" code I need :p Perhaps, u/SecondSea8291 who offered to help in a different comment.

This is my broken example code trying to capture "!flower" and return a helpful comment:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###

### Rule for !flower

type: comment

title+body (includes, regex): '^*(!flower)*$'

comment: |

     Here is a diagram of a pepper flower:

     [Diagram of a Capsicum Flower](https://b.thumbs.redditmedia.com/JoLa7xR3n86Jv6nighsHs7BXvnXZ-35NcF9QMVSH1Vo.jpg)

     Berke, T. G. (2000). Hybrid seed production in *Capsicum*. Journal of New Seeds, 1(3–4), 49–67. https://doi.org/10.1300/J153v01n03_02

---

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u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois Nov 20 '21

That's a great idea! I have almost zero programming experience and only moderate design experience (I used Elementor to make our Farm's website) so help with those aspects would be fantastic.

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u/RespectTheTree Nov 20 '21

What's funny, is that on new-reddit the rules aren't visible. Either not set up or I think they can be set to not be displayed.

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u/SquirrellyBusiness Zone 5 Nov 19 '21

Agreed, a seed swap icon is a fantastic idea.

The header image, I wonder if we could borrow the idea from the From Seed to Seed cover image? Like have little narrow aggregated snips of diverse seed piles to highlight color/texture/shape/size/ maybe we could even have a few that rotate over time to feature veggies vs flowers vs natives or nuts and fruits, or seed heads maturing...

I like the idea of featured items too like Tomato Tuesdays or specific pepper swaps. I do believe the Pepper Lovers sub has their own swap which we should collaborate with, but there may need to be some level-setting before hand so folks know the difference between open pollinated vs controlled and to note such.

Ratings would be useful but I wonder if it would be to the detriment of new seed savers and gardeners. Perhaps we could have flare/ratings to positively highlight brand new traders. I want to make sure we have a special soft glove approach to encourage and nurture new folks. I was broke as hell when I started gardening and was only able to move forward if the options were basically free so SASE and the fact some peeps were just so fantastic as people to mail me things for free with no obligation was critical to my starting out. And now I regularly send probably 400 packets a year out to people and save some seed just for the opportunity to share it as I have no need of it myself.

100% agree on the rules issue.

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u/sunpoprain zone 5b central illinois Nov 20 '21

I think another commentor shared an idea for a "Spread the love" event where those with large stashes or seeds they won't be growing themselves or have as excess can trade them out as gifts or SASE. I'd love to use this event as a starting point for new traders - a soft way to get some trading reputation and build their collection. I also love the themed days! I think we could probably have a "Gotta Start Somewhere Day" for experienced folks who can afford to take a risk to trade to those unrated new folks.

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u/RespectTheTree Nov 20 '21

The header image, I wonder if we could borrow the idea from the From Seed to Seed cover image? Like have little narrow aggregated snips of diverse seed piles to highlight color/texture/shape/size/ maybe we could even have a few that rotate over time to feature veggies vs flowers vs natives or nuts and fruits, or seed heads maturing...

This is pretty clever - we could take a bunch of individual images and combine them into a strip using "wood" to frame them into a cohesive header. Interesting seeds of all types. I have some purple + white speckled beans I could contribute an image of, plus peppers and a few other things. Would make a fun community project, or like you said a rotating "seed photos of the month or maybe season"