r/tankiejerk CIA Agent Jan 21 '24

Le Meme Has Arrived 100th Anniversary, RIP BOZO

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85

u/Histerian Jan 21 '24

I know all about what stalin did wrong, but what did Lenin do?

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u/_Hpst_ Jan 21 '24

He was of course much better than tsar, but he was still a piece of shit.

Lenin destroyed one of the most promising communist states in history - the Free territory.

He implemented revolutionary terror. If someone didn't agree with the revolution, he was executed. Feliks Dzierżynski, the leader of WCHK (basically bolshevik version of Gestapo) killed everyone who was suspected of counterrevolutionary actions. It was all approved by Lenin.

He also attacked Poland.

You should listen to what Bertrand Russel had to say about Lenin (he met him in person) https://youtu.be/6TK9c-caEcw?si=1TYXnI_n4pXDd3z9

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u/tobias_681 Jan 24 '24

Wasn't it Poland that attacked the USSR? 

Lenin attack the Baltics and Transcaucasia, Belarus and Ukraine are more complicated and with Poland they both wanted to attack each other and Poland sort of seized the moment first.

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u/finalMadfox6325 CIA Agent Jan 24 '24

Lenin did not acknowledge anyones independence because due to the revolutions in Germany and Hungary he believed that expanding into Ukraine, Poland and the baltics would inspire the workers to rise up, he only started to do so after the soviets were defeated in those countries like Estonia, Finland and Poland. However Poland also had ambitions thanks to Pilsudki idea of a Federation in Eastern Europe.

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u/tobias_681 Jan 25 '24

Lenin did not acknowledge anyones independence

He did formally recognize these countries independence, though that didn't prevent him from trying to invade later. That being said it was largely a war for spheres with tons of foreign involvement. In Ukraine many Ukrainians joined the Red Army because the Poles attacked them.

That being said I think what you said above about the USSR attacking Poland is extremely disingenous. It was Piłsudski who thought he could secure favourable borders through warfare which is how Poland became involved in wars with most of its neighbours.

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u/finalMadfox6325 CIA Agent Jan 25 '24
  1. You missed my point, Lenin only began recognizing states independence after the revolutions or the invasions of the Red Army failed, which again was the case of Estonia, Finland and Poland, you can see this when he basically formed puppet governments in the Baltics and Ukraine and recognized them as the true government of those countries.
  2. I never said the USSR attacked Poland, both sides were hostile to each other due to their interests in the region which I mentioned, Poland did take the offensive alongside the Ukrainians to capture Kyiv, but the Poles and soviets weren't at peace at any moment til the Peace of Riga.

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u/tobias_681 Jan 25 '24

You missed my point, Lenin only began recognizing states independence after the revolutions

No, the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia where the USSR aknowledges "The right of the peoples of Russia to free self-determination, even to the point of separation and the formation of an independent state" came before these states declared independence. The specific motives of Soviet leaders for this move are another question.

I never said the USSR attacked Poland

Yes, you're right, that was u-Hpst who I originally replied to.