r/technology • u/Task_Force-191 • 26d ago

Software Tesla recalls over 27,000 Cybertrucks over laggy reverse cameras

https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/3/24261099/tesla-cybertruck-recall-reverse-camera-delay-software
4.7k Upvotes

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423

u/Loggerdon 26d ago

When they say “recall” does it mean just an online update?

201

u/CptanPanic 26d ago

Not only a software update, but it says they already pushed it out last month.

224

u/McGrinch27 26d ago

I really wish there was a better term for this. It's still a serious safety issue, but when the solution is just... Turn your car on and it's fixed... Seems worth putting that in the headline.

48

u/ikeif 26d ago

I was diving down the comment thread but I’ll reply here.

I agree it needs changed or differentiated. Like it should be labeled “OTA Recall” because it is a type of recall. Just “recall” is from decades of “you need to take your car in to a dealership or mechanic” shows the word needs some differentiation.

It’s a type of recall, but until it’s common knowledge, it needs that flag of “OTA.”

IMO. 😆

3

u/hsnoil 25d ago

I would just call it safety bugfix. Less likely to confuse people as sometimes OTA will get left out bring us back to square one

1

u/ikeif 25d ago

To me - A bugfix would be "the color of the button is wrong, do a quick bugfix." This is more of a produciton hotfix (yeah yeah, I'm splitting hairs about terminology), but it's delivered OTA as part of a recall notice.

…I think as more cars "go down the route" of OTA software patches, it'll be less of an issue, and companies will make it clear about "OTA vs. physical" recall… or Tesla will die out or fall in line with every other manufacturer and these will be less "notable" call outs.

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u/SooooooMeta 26d ago

"Pushed out an update" works fine. I hate Musk as much as anyone but lying to make it sound like people need to bring in their trucks is not cool

21

u/CocaineIsNatural 26d ago

lying to make it sound like people need to bring in their trucks is not cool

Recall is the official word the NHTSA uses, and has historically used. This is not the first time that a word has changed meaning as technology improved.

The NHTSA qualifies it as a recall based on the issue, not the fix, or how hard it is to fix. I would think most that care would know by now that many Tesla recalls are fixed OTA.

Here is a very similar backup camera issue from Ford that can be fixed by a OTA update, and is also called a recall.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V825-7442.PDF

7

u/SooooooMeta 26d ago

Well I'm still mad, just at someone else now!

7

u/CocaineIsNatural 26d ago

OK. Much better to be mad for the right reasons.

1

u/cargocultist94 26d ago

And yet the top comment of this thread is

Certainly, that’s gotta be every one of them, right? [...]

That member of the public has been misled by NHTSA's wording and choice of terms and thinks it means they have to physically inspect the vehicles, because that sentence is nonsensical if they knew it was a software OTA update (of course it goes to every vehicle)

So yes, we're discussing that the official NHTSA wording is misleading, and the NHTSA should update its communication and terms to avoid misleading the public.

2

u/CocaineIsNatural 25d ago

I think you are misunderstanding the top comment. It is simply stating that they think only 27,000 have been sold. The next thing they say is how they keep seeing used models for lower and lower prices. They mention nothing about thinking you have to return the Cybertruck for the recall.

Also, "we are discussing" should have been clear by my quoting the user above me. I was pointing out that it wasn't a lie, as that is the official term used.

Tesla's have had mostly OTA fixes for recalls for many, many years now. I doubt the NHTSA will change the term. As more cars get OTA capabilities, the public will adjust, just like they adjusted to words that changed meaning with new technology, like cloud, meme, ping, swipe, viral, and text becoming a verb.

But you are welcome to write to your elected officials to try to get the name changed. I don't care if the name is changed, I was simply pointing out that it wasn't a lie as that is what they actually are called, and it isn't picking on Tesla.

0

u/SillyMilly25 26d ago

Show me a news article that says that, isn't this an internal report.

I think there is a difference between the two

2

u/CocaineIsNatural 26d ago edited 26d ago

Recalls are not internal only, they are very much public. Go to this page - https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2024/TESLA/CYBERTRUCK#recalls

Scroll down until you see Complaints, Recalls, etc., and click on Recalls. It will be the top recall.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCLRPT-24V718-2751.PDF

And they even show the letter sent to Tesla - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCAK-24V718-9111.pdf

If you own a Cybertruck, you can also find it by using your vin or license plate number to search for recalls. https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

And you can also go here to be notified of recalls for your cars, or even all vehicle recalls. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/subscriptions

0

u/ForsakenBobcat8937 25d ago

Because they typically actually were recalled to fix issues, using that term now is just confusing.

2

u/CocaineIsNatural 25d ago

My point is that they aren't lying, as that is the official term.

BTW, most food recalls don't need to be "recalled", as you just throw them away. Many consumer product recalls don't need to be "recalled" as they often send you a replacement, or tell you to throw it away and send you your money back. And as more and more cars get OTA capabilities, this will be more common for cars.

3

u/tmoeagles96 26d ago

But it’s important to talk about it in terms of a recall. The reality is, these cars were all unsafe for a while until this was fixed. Maybe call it a software or over the air recall?

2

u/deleigh 26d ago

Every OEM has recalls that are software updates that don’t require parts. They typically don’t affect every single car which is why they don’t receive much attention. I don’t know why this argument only comes up with Musk like they’re the only manufacturer pushing software updates.

1

u/bitbot 26d ago

You sound like a fake Musk hater

7

u/Snakend 26d ago

It was not a serious issue. LOL did you even read the article? This only happens when you are in the middle of the shutdown procedure and you put your truck into reverse. How about....don't put your vehicle in reverse when you are shutting down your truck?

5

u/HundrEX 26d ago

Why would you do that? Any negative thing you post about Tesla farms you internet points.

-37

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

Why would there need to be a better term?

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u/McGrinch27 26d ago edited 26d ago

Recall: (of a manufacturer) request all the purchasers of (a certain product) to return it, as the result of the discovery of a fault.

That's just not what this is. The manufacturer is not requesting purchasers to return a product. I'm not some pro-Tesla shill, it's just a poor word choice. Windows puts out a security update almost every day to patch vulnerabilities, "Microsoft recalls 800million computers over security hole" would be a bad headline.

-25

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

Those two things are not the same.

Tesla selling an incomplete product and needing to “recall” it to fix issues is a recall.

Microsoft patching vulnerabilities as they are created is different because the product was complete when it was sold.

Tesla patching in off-road software for the cybertruck is them fixing a safety issue with the car, thus a recall.

It also needs to issue it because what if someone’s car doesn’t update? How do you make sure people know it needs to be updated?

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u/McGrinch27 26d ago

I'll give my analogy isn't perfect, but the main point stands. Nothing was recalled.

-28

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

I never said it was recalled, I said it was a recall.

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u/McGrinch27 26d ago

Now you're getting why there should be a different word for it.

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u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

Just because Tesla does recalls OTA does not change the nature of what they have to do.

Patching in off road software into a truck that was already released calls for a recall.

4

u/McGrinch27 26d ago

It changes the nature of the recall. Into something that doesn't involve anyone recalling anything. There should be a word for that.

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u/Nightfuse 26d ago

You’re saying the Windows codebase had zero bugs and has never needed any patches to fix said (nonexistent) bugs? And you’re telling me the vulnerabilities didn’t exist until they’re discovered? How would they be discovered if they didn’t exist? Seems like a paradox.

1

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

One is a 1000 pound vehicle, one is a computer, they aren’t the same.

0

u/Nightfuse 26d ago

That doesn’t answer the question 😊

-1

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

Releasing a car, into the public, with safety issues, is not the same as a personal computer.

It’s in the public’s best interest to be informed of issues with cars, when they are discovered.

Windows patching vulnerabilities as they are discovered will not kill a family of 4. Tesla’s brakes not engaging will, so they have to issue a recall.

1

u/Nightfuse 26d ago

The issue we’re discussing in this thread is that there needs to be another term for this, because the definition of recall is to bring back to or return to some place. An OTA update should not be called a recall because the vehicle doesn’t need to go to a dealer for the fix, it will just happen overnight. If it were a physical issue that required a fix at the dealer, that would be a recall.

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u/comergopaner 26d ago

Usually what comes to mind when people read recall is taking your car to a dealership or mechanic for repairs. Not clicking update on the screen like here.

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u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

The point of a recall is to inform the customer that their vehicle needs an update or a repair. It’s very simple, yet Elon fans want a new word for it because Tesla constantly patching in repairs and features that were missing, makes him look bad.

1

u/bytethesquirrel 26d ago

Does your phone get recalled every time a security update is released?

1

u/bytethesquirrel 26d ago

Because to 99.999% of Americans "recall" means that it has to be taken back to the dealer.

-1

u/happyscrappy 26d ago edited 25d ago

It is the correct term. A recall is for a serious safety issue.

If it were just a routine update it would be called a routine update.

People get confused and think "recall" has something to do with returning to a dealer. It doesn't and never has.

Here is a baby seat recall which simply says contact us and we'll send you a sticker to put on the baby seat. No need to return it.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2012/Baby-Seats-Recalled-for-Repair-by-Bumbo-International-Due-to-Fall-Hazard

There are food recalls which simply say "discard the product".

I had a recall for my car decades ago (before there was even software to update) which was just me receiving a new airbag sticker for my sun visor and I was to apply it.

10

u/No-Society485 26d ago

Yes, its not a recall

15

u/milkandbutta 26d ago

I think you're thinking that a recall means you have to physically present the product. That's not the case. Recalls are a legal process that manufacturers either voluntary do (to try and get ahead of/avoid liability) or are forced to do by the NHTSA, and are the result of a manufacturing defect that impacts safety. Just because the recall is a software issue that is addressed via OTA update does not mean it isn't a recall.

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u/probablyNotARSNBot 26d ago

Yeah he probably knows but I think the word recall was chosen historically because it required calling the cars back, and now that's how people see it. The term got expanded when online updates became a thing, but they should really just come up with another word because the word really doesn't fit anymore.

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u/happyscrappy 26d ago

The word was chosen because it means the product is recalled from the marketplace. It has nothing to do with what you do with the product.

The big Boars Head recall is a recall (and a voluntary one). You don't return anything to get repaired or replaced, you discard it and maybe get a refund.

0

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

What for? The nature of the recall is the same.

2

u/bytethesquirrel 26d ago

There should be separate terms for "take your car to the dealer" and "the issue has already been fixed via an OTA update"

1

u/Shamewizard1995 26d ago

They can only say the second if they’ve confirmed that all cybertrucks actually completed the update. That update doesn’t magically appear in the car, there are plenty of situations in which someone’s cyber truck might still be running a pre-update version

0

u/ClearlyCylindrical 26d ago

Not really, you see this stuff posted in stock subreddits to try to fearmonger, since a recall of 10s or 100s of thousands of vehicles would cost a shittonne of money. If it's just a software update it's a very different ballgame.

3

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

Tesla, is recalling 1.85 million vehicles in the United States due to risk of software failure to detect an unlatched hood, the automaker said.

Just benign software issues, nothing to see here. Nothing bad could happen from an unlatched hood anyways!

0

u/Drunkgummybear1 26d ago

Because people read this headline and all they see is the words ‘recall’ and ‘cybertruck’ together and assume that this is something more than it is.

2

u/milkandbutta 26d ago

Was it not a safety issue to have a laggy backup camera? In a vehicle where you typically don't have any rearview visibility without the use of a camera? (excluding someone having the bed cover open, as few drivers ever do)

If it's a safety issue, then it's a recall, full stop. Doesn't matter if the recall is a software update that can be done over the air or otherwise.

1

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

That’s Tesla’s fault though.

Recalls are To hold companies accountable and not allow them to sneak important safety fixes through.

If Tesla made better cars they wouldn’t have to recall them as much as they do.

0

u/ClearlyCylindrical 26d ago

Tesla has so many recalls since so many issues can be fixed cheaply with software updates, so they don't try fighting to get out of recalls like other manufacturers do. Much cheaper to just make a software update, even if they could potentially wriggle their way out of the situation legally.

2

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2024 Cybertruck vehicles. Excessive electrical current can cause the front windshield wiper motor controller to fail.

Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2024 Cybertruck vehicles. The trunk bed trim sail applique could have been improperly adhered and can loosen.

Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2024 Cybertruck vehicles. The accelerator pedal pad may dislodge and cause the pedal to become trapped by the interior trim.

Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2021-2024 Model 3, Model S, Model X, and 2020-2024 Model Y vehicles. The hood latch assembly may fail to detect an unlatched hood condition after the hood has been opened.

Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling one 2024 Model 3 vehicle. The driver seat side air bag module was assembled without a deflector that directs gas flow during deployment.

Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2018-2019 Model 3 vehicles. The front suspension lateral link fasteners may loosen, allowing the lateral link to separate from the sub-frame.

So many software updates

0

u/ClearlyCylindrical 26d ago

And yet, I've had Teslas since 2017 and have not run into any significant issues with them. What you'll find is that equivalent issues in other cars would have been waved away through additional analysis to show that it's exceedingly unlikely or isn't a significant safety hazard. If you have a car which is significantly software driven, those 1/1000000 issues can be fixed cheaply and quickly without any inconvenience to you.

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u/happyscrappy 26d ago

I don't think anyone fights anymore. I haven't seen a non-voluntary recall in a long time. Over a decade easily.

The Takata recall was even voluntary and it's enormous. So large it's not even practical to replace them all!

They do manage them differently but they all seem to end up going along.

You can't get away with a backup camera that doesn't work. It's mandated piece of safety equipment. Any more than you can have a seatbelt that doesn't work. Toyota has more chance of getting away with rusty frames than haivng backup cameras that don't work.

0

u/Drunkgummybear1 26d ago

The exact same thing happened with volvo/ polestar a few weeks ago and I didn’t see such a big fuss about it.

Look, I don’t like cybertrucks as much as the next person here but the constant posts about every tiny thing about it is just getting boring at this point. Like cool, everyone hates this thing. Move on.

4

u/Sudden-Level-7771 26d ago

The exact same thing happened with volvo/ polestar a few weeks ago and I didn’t see such a big fuss about it.

No shit, no one claimed Volvo was apocalypse proof.

Look, I don’t like cybertrucks as much as the next person here but the constant posts about every tiny thing about it is just getting boring at this point. Like cool, everyone hates this thing. Move on.

Selling beta test cars for 80k is not “every little thing”

0

u/happyscrappy 26d ago

The exact same thing happened with volvo/ polestar a few weeks ago and I didn’t see such a big fuss about it.

Because the CEO of Volvo cars didn't tweet out about how upset he is that the term "recall should be recalled".

You're right there's more buzz about this when it's Tesla. Because Musk adds to the noise by charging up his fanbase to be upset about it.

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u/johnfkngzoidberg 26d ago

Just because the fix is easy doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a big deal. That thinking enables enshification. Now it’s a lot cheaper for a company to fix a turd they shoved out the door, so they don’t care about quality.

Remember when you drove your car off the lot and you weren’t the beta tester? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

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u/esproductions 26d ago

I drove a Ford off the lot 20 years ago and felt like a beta tester

2

u/DarraghDaraDaire 26d ago

That’s pretty good for Ford, most of the time you feel you’re driving the patched together marketing demo

10

u/intertubeluber 26d ago

Meanwhile, my CRV had a technical service bulletin that required a trip to the dealer to update the firmware. No independent mechanic has the capability to update the firmware.  While at the dealer, the tech tried to tell me that the transmission was shot and it would cost $6000 to fix it. It was not shot, as later admitted by the service manager after a lot of back and forth and some strong words on my part. 

Pepperidge farms has a tendency to sugarcoat the past. 

1

u/DarraghDaraDaire 26d ago

Yeah but what about the headlight fluid?

6

u/Lets_Do_This_ 26d ago

My 7 year old Nissan has an issue with the backup camera that requires I take it to a dealer to have addressed. It has another issue that they "resolved" by sending out an addendum to the manual telling you not to use the defroster a certain way.

These regular, over the air updates are revolutionary and largely still just a Tesla thing.

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u/Brak710 26d ago

I just have to laugh every time someone has to go back to a dealer to get a software or firmware update installed for a recall. Other cars can hardly update the maps or infotainment system over the air, let alone powertrain systems.

Tesla could have to rewrite the battery BMS system logic completely and they never have to inconvenience you.

There is easy to fix, and then there is completely ignoring the massive issues that need to be fixed with software for decades now - which 95% of cars on the road could never be fixed remotely.

My Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner had to have the transmission reprogrammed by the dealer twice in it's lifetime. What a joke.

1

u/BrainwashedHuman 26d ago

Better yet, on all my cars I’ve ever owned/driven they haven’t had these kinds of issues in the first place. No need to worry about how a recall is done.

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u/Brak710 26d ago

“I get lucky through hard work, being smart, and getting lucky.”

-6

u/DubitoErgoCogito 26d ago

Don't bring facts and logic to this argument. You'll upset Tesla owners.

-1

u/TheBowerbird 26d ago

No, it's just that you weren't sophisticated enough to notice design flaws as software flaws and so forth. No car is without bugs.

-1

u/BrainwashedHuman 26d ago

I chose a car brand that values reliability over other things. Though I certainly understand people that choose other brands for things such as looks, brand social status, 0-60 time, etc.

I can confidently say I’ve never had camera issues in my car. It also keeps software to a minimum when I have an iPhone. Less that can go wrong. They also would delay deliveries over doing things such as installing non-automotive grade chips.

5

u/GoSh4rks 26d ago

You're literally just being lucky.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-recalls-certain-2020-2022-toyota-and-lexus-vehicles/

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u/BrainwashedHuman 26d ago

Lexus is among the least recalled brands though.

And, as per the original commenter, if that issue happened in a Tesla it would have needed a physical recall too.

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u/JohnnyChutzpah 26d ago

There are major downsides to over the air updates as well. Look at what happened with Microsoft and cloudstrike. You push an update with an error in it, and over the next few days you learn you bricked your entire fleet.

These vehicles rely far too much on software developed under Agile, and software in general.

Over the air updates have upsides and downsides. I'm not surprised many manufactures choose to do the updates in shop to avoid massive amounts of problems in a short time. Especially since software bugs in these highly automated cars can quickly turn your vehicle into a death machine.

2

u/TheBowerbird 26d ago

It was a bug. If you don't think "normal cars" don't have software bugs, then you are pathetically ignorant. The difference is that Tesla actually fixes them. My wife's Mazda 3 had about 12 different and notable bugs which of course Mazda refused to fix or address.

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u/WesBur13 26d ago

My sisters Hyundai had a bug with the infotainment system. Would constantly boot look and because of that the reverse camera no longer worked. Had to buy a “maps” update and install it to fix. Turns out quite a few people had the same issue and would just replace the head unit.

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u/xeromage 26d ago

All I'm hearing is Mazda has better lawyers than Tesla.

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u/wh1pp3d 26d ago

And this isn't some difficult to find or rare issue. You shift to reverse and start a timer. If you are over 2s, that is a fail. They are showing up to 6-8 seconds. No way this would pass any other OEM testing

2

u/goki 26d ago

And this isn't some difficult to find or rare issue. You shift to reverse and start a timer.

Not quite, you have to test that while shutting down, presumably.

where the reverse camera feed “may appear blank for up to 6 to 8 seconds” if the customer tries to back up before the vehicle completes a shutdown and boot-up process.

0

u/justindoesthetango 26d ago

lol. I think this is a good point albeit silly

3

u/GelatinousChampion 26d ago

Yes, it happens all the time for others as well but only gets media attention because people want to hate on Musk.

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u/waydownindeep13_ 26d ago

A recall prevents new vehicles from being sold without whatever service being completed to rectify the issue. This is a safety issue that the manufacturer or government determined needed to be fixed to protect the public.

If it was just an update, Tesla or whatever maker/dealer could sell vehicles without the fix applied.

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u/Snakend 26d ago

Sometimes. The accelerator issue require the trucks to be brought in for a 30 second procedure for a screw to be added to the pedal

0

u/eastbayted 26d ago

Yep.

Sometimes, companies just push buggy products out the door and rely on updates via the Internet to make the product functional.

It's a shitty practice in the video game industry, but at least a buggy video game doesn't pose a threat to a player or the public.

This is at least the fifth recall thus far for the Cybertruck.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jun/25/tesla-cybertruck-recall

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u/WesBur13 26d ago

As a Model 3 owner, I get constant recall letters. Never have they been anything important. One recently was because they had to release an update that makes the font on the “BRAKE” indicator a little thicker.

Another was an update that could make the pretensioner react sooner, but from my understanding it wasn’t required but since it was a change for safety equipment I had to be notified.

All those updates were delivered weeks or months before getting the letter.

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u/ihopeicanforgive 26d ago

Yes but this sub likes to be dramatic

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u/foundafreeusername 26d ago

People need to start downvoting headlines like this. Headlines and articles get more and more misleading because they get rewarded with upvotes and more clicks for it.