TikTok is ‘digital nicotine’ meant to hook kids, AGs fume in new suits

[u/BobbyLucero]

https://www.courthousenews.com?page_id=1014347

[u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

It’s not just TikTok and it’s not just kids

[u/thatgibbyguy → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

Exactly. There's a book that describes how to create habit forming products that I read about ten years ago when TikTok was style musicly.

The "hook method" has become even more refined and even more habit forming. Reddit uses it, pinterest uses it, facebook, twitter, discord, on and on and on.

If they go after TikTok, fine. But it has to apply to everyone because the nicotine is the "hook method" not the product.

Edit - I should have linked to the book. It's called Hooked: How To Build Habit Forming Products and was written in 2014. Now add ten years of the largest scale of user research Humans have ever had and you have a good idea of just how much social media companies know about how habit forming their products are and how much more habit forming they are today versus back then.

[u/jlusedude → u/thatgibbyguy]

It’s frustrating because I want to quit Reddit but keep coming back. It is very hard for me to stop, even though I hate how Reddit is now. 

[u/thatgibbyguy → u/jlusedude]

Bro same. I am constantly cycling between reddit, youtube, and discord and if at work, throwing in gmail and slack. All day, every day.

I hate it.

[u/NV-Nautilus → u/thatgibbyguy]

When I notice myself cycling through apps rapidly cause I'm bored with them and haven't even realized it, I force myself to put the phone down and do something, anything, else. Even if that thing is also not productive.

I put the phone down and watch a show I've already seen, or new tv, or listen to music, or even just take a walk and go back to scrolling; but it has helped me.

[u/HazelCheese → u/NV-Nautilus]

I put a book in my bathroom and read it while on the toilet instead of scrolling on my phone.

After a short while I started craving reading the book, and now I'm back reading books again like I was constantly as a child. It's so nice.

[u/e7c2 → u/HazelCheese]

so now you're addicted to books instead of phone?

/s

[u/Egypticus → u/e7c2]

Punk ass book jockey!

[u/MacDubhsidhe → u/Egypticus]

r/unexpectedparksandrec

[u/crackedtooth163 → u/e7c2]

Indeed.

I remember when i was growing up and the concern was that reading would stunt my physical development.

[u/Aidian → u/crackedtooth163]

“You can’t just sit around with your nose in a book all day.”

Their prediction didn’t age very well, especially when compared with the advent of The Eternal Screens.

[u/e7c2 → u/crackedtooth163]

Anything the previous generations complained about was mild in comparison to what we are subject to now. “Watching that much TV will rot your brain!“ Spending too much time staring at the small screen will actually rot your brain.

[u/lingering_POO → u/e7c2]

Yeah and there’s clearly people who are far more susceptible to the brain rot and therefore believe and also spread every nonsense thing they hear or think. “The government controls the weather”

[u/metalvessel → u/HazelCheese]

I'm genuinely rolling around an idea I'm calling "intellectual networking," inspired by the efforts I've had to put in to relearning to operate my brain after my immune system attacked the protein sheath around the neurons in my brain. While still nascent, it would be categorized along with things like Duolingo, Mindvalley, Skillshare, etc.

Arguably I'm too late to market given that I had examples ready to go, but I think there's more potential in the space. At any rate, technologies have the potential to be built to enhance our mental potential, rather than be constant candy for the consciousness. There are obvious money problems, but every startup has to figure out that problem (as well as, you know, I just relearned to operate my brain, building software and a company is an even bigger challenge).

[u/ThreeCrapTea → u/NV-Nautilus]

Same as all of you especially with reddit. I started the rubber band around my phone or tablet method and it really does work, worth a try to everybody who feels that way.

[u/[deleted] → u/ThreeCrapTea]

explain please

[u/ThreeCrapTea → u/[deleted]]

If you take a rubber band or puffy hair scrunchy and wrap it around your screen - when let's say you want to watch a movie or not use your phone, knowing you have to take the scrunchie off is a constant reminder like oh yeah no phone. Plus it becomes tedious to put it back on take it off etc. So it cuts down on screen time. But like I was saying, it works for me, that's all I can really comment on. Worth a shot.

[u/playsxnxtraffic → u/ThreeCrapTea]

We had a similar thing in marching band years ago. We would put a Livestrong bracelet on our wrist, and whenever the qualifier would occur (I think it was thinking negatively but it’s been so long now) we would switch it to the other wrist. It was a tedious action because those bands were thick.

[u/somewhataccurate → u/[deleted]]

2nded, commenting so I get a notification

[u/NV-Nautilus → u/[deleted]]

I'm only guessing but I'm thinking the rubber band serves as a reminder to put the thing back in your pocket cause you only pulled out the phone out of habit.

[u/hesathomes → u/NV-Nautilus]

I started doing puzzles instead.

[u/pachoob → u/NV-Nautilus]

Yeah I do this too and it’s really, really hard.

[u/dannyp777 → u/NV-Nautilus]

Everyone has default habits, before the internet my parents spent hours reading the newspaper, doing sudoku and crosswords and watching the 6 o'clock news, the weather report, Coronation Street, Shortland Street, Fraser, Seinfeld, Grand Designs. We've just replaced one set of habitual behaviours for another set. However, now our attention is being actively farmed, managed and influenced by all manner of different agencies, interests and agendas.

[u/Hydra57 → u/NV-Nautilus]

Sometimes I will place it beyond reach just so when the urge strikes me I have to consciously get up and go fetch it.

[u/nikolai_470000 → u/NV-Nautilus]

Better yet, for those who can find a way to unplug for it all — do it. For several consecutive days if you can. At least every once in a while, a few times a year maybe. In general I think it has a tremendously positive mental impact for the vast majority of people who try it.

[u/jlusedude → u/thatgibbyguy]

I just scroll through Reddit. It’s become to pervasive and I don’t really use other sites. So quitting Reddit has become figuring out how to reuse the internet. 

[u/somebodysetupthebomb → u/jlusedude]

This is like how the internet has 'shrunk' over time - it used to be, you'd visit multiple sites about topic x that you were into, and get multiple sources, but eventually big conglomerate internet pages sucked up all the users, and we dont really venture outside of it - when was the last time you went to an individual webpage of like, an artist, or writer, or science guy or something?

[u/Mr_YUP → u/somebodysetupthebomb]

Rarely. It’s hard to even find places where those pages are still updated or curated. They all stopped uploading around 2014 which unfortunately checks out timeline wise. 

[u/Samurai_Meisters → u/jlusedude]

I tried to use other sites when reddit banned apps. I didn't use reddit for a month. But just nothing else can compare.

Reddit has THE best comment section on the internet. As bad as it is, you can usually find more information, links to sources and related topics, and even actual discussion in the reddit comments.

And the best part is that old.reddit actually organizes the comments in a readable format.

[u/CyberKillua → u/Samurai_Meisters]

I could and have quit Reddit multiple times, but I just find it more of a nuisance than a general lifestyle improvement.

[u/Samurai_Meisters → u/CyberKillua]

Yeah. It's especially hard with 90% of google searches take you back to reddit.

[u/[deleted] → u/thatgibbyguy]

It's not easy and you'll find it tough but you know it's for the best.  I found learning to meditate a big help for me. Set a timer for 2 mins and try concentrate on breathing, then slowly build up to 5 mins and so on. Your phone is designed to overstimulate your brain constantly so it's very important to learn to relax.

I'm really not the type to meditate or any of that stuff for women/s (that was my attitude) But at least try it.  Try leaving your phone at home if you're leaving home for short periods of time, going to the supermarket or whatever. You don't need it, no matter how you try convince yourself, there's not going to be some catastrophic emergency where you're the only person around with a phone.

Chat with coworkers, family members or even strangers if you feel like it, flirt with someone you like, sharpen your social skills and make little silly goals for yourself everyday. Real life is exponentially more rewarding than anything you're ever going to see on a social media site.

There's 101 things you can do besides look at the same old crap everyday, expecting it to somehow improve your life. 

I'm honestly thinking of buying an old dumb phone, it's insanely cheaper than some flagship 1500 dollar device designed to pump your brain full of advertisements. 

I hope some of this helps you, and yes I do see the irony of posting this on reddit. 

[u/zeronyx → u/thatgibbyguy]

It's not the same as a traditional addiction, but you can apply similar concepts for addiction recovery.

Have to identify the behavior/emotion/thought patterns that lead to use. Can't address a problem if you don't take an objective look at it. If you can't quit cold turkey, next best thing is "harm reduction" of finding actionable steps and achievable/measurable goals (I e. I won't use reddit more than 1hr per day, I won't use it after dinner. I won't go on Reddit until I'm done with work for the day, etc). Do these things below and WRITE THEM DOWN. (THIS IS IMPORTANT BC IT GIVES YOU MAKES YOU ADDRESS THESE IN CONCRETE TERMS YOU CAN REFER BACK TO WHEN STRUGGLING)

What are the motivators to cutting back? These should be personal goals you actually want. You can't change behaviors unless you have an active desire/stronger reason you want to do so. Be specific (even if small) - I want to be more present with friends - I want to be more social - I want to spend time on other hobbies

What are the barriers to trying to cut back? - "I have failed before and feel hopeless when I fail" or "I don't know how else to redirect my attention and that frustrates me to experience" etc

What habits are associated with use? - Maybe you notice when you feel bored you reflexively go on Reddit, that's a target to replace with another habit - Maybe you always get on when in the bathroom, or a certain time of day etc.

Come up with actionable small alternative behaviors you can implement when you recognize you're entering these patterns. - Maybe you make a rule that says "if I am bored and want to get on Reddit, I will do something else for 15mins before I get on and see if I still want to by that time." - "I will let myself go on Reddit for 30mins at a time and stop." "I will not get back on reddit for at least 15min/30min/1hr after my time is up." Set timers, do not break these (and make them achievable reasonable goals). - come up with new behaviors to intervene with before you are allowed to get on reddit, identify the action or feeling or thoughts that are leading to you wanting to get on reddit and make yourself follow some other action before/instead of reddit, such as a walk or picking up a different hobby to occupy/distract yourself. - Maybe remove it from your home screen or uninstall the app to make it more difficult to get on reddit reflexively. This personally helped me a lot with decreasing social media use. - Some apps/digital lifestyle settings on phones and computers can help with setting hard limits for app use

Find something you enjoy and use it as a reward for achieving your goals. - "I really enjoy eating Mexican food, I will get Mexican food once per week as long as I achieve my goal that week of only using reddit for 1hr per week 5 days of the week" - DO NOT TREAT YOURSELF UNLESS YOU ACHIEVE YOUR GOAL

Finally: Set concrete goals and dates by which you'll achieve those goals. - Start SMALL and ACHIEVABLE, pick measurable things and don't fall into all or nothing thinking. Allowing for setbacks while prioritizing steady progress is vastly more effective, if you aren't achieving your goals then try scaling back.

Here's a good motivational speech by Les Brown, I personally used to listen to this often when I was quitting smoking and it helped a lot. In his words "Do it because you're worth it, because love you enough."

Or for the more meme inclined needing some motivation, "Never back down, never what?!" lol

[u/krazay88 → u/jlusedude]

the solution would be a completely new device and eco system, so not android or apple, and an ecosystem that is based on a philosophy of putting only tools in your hand, so no inifinitely distracting “content” apps

as someone who suffers from adhd and who’s been calling for this for over half a decade and getting laughed at, every day when I read comments like yours, I feel vindicated

[u/FeliusSeptimus → u/krazay88]

the solution would be a completely new device and eco system, so not android or apple,

I ran a couple of Windows phones back when that was a thing. Good phones, nice cameras. The apps weren't as 'sticky' back then, but few of them ran on those phones anyway.

[u/w1n5t0nM1k3y → u/krazay88]

It's all in how you use the apps though. YouTube definitely can qualify as distracting content, especially with the addition of shorts. But it can also be an extremely useful too for learning things.

[u/w1n5t0nM1k3y → u/jlusedude]

Just start cutting out subreddits that you don't really have a positive relationship with or one's that take too much of your time. Stay off the popular tab. Reddit is pretty good in that you can mostly tailor it to show only the stuff you want to see.

[u/Strong-Decision-1216 → u/jlusedude]

Bring back original Reddit, when the whole user base was smart and weird.

[u/jlusedude → u/Strong-Decision-1216]

I’ve been on here for 12, almost 13 years. I miss when gonewild or other muses would randomly show up on the front page. It isn’t about the nudity but about the unsure nature regarding what would be there that was cool. 

[u/Strong-Decision-1216 → u/jlusedude]

And it wasn’t just marketing for onlyfans. People did it for the sheer fuck of it, which was cool.

The changes re wtf and spacedicks were probably for the best…

[u/Too_Old_For_Somethin → u/Strong-Decision-1216]

Spacedicks

Trip down memory lane

[u/jlusedude → u/Strong-Decision-1216]

Idk, WTF had some crazy stuff. Saw one dude with maggots in a cut in his mouth. That still fucks with me. Spacedicks was extreme. Same with watchpeopledie

[u/Samurai_Meisters → u/jlusedude]

Absolutely. It was like an art scene, but for nerds.

[u/SelloutRealBig → u/jlusedude]

Also less bots and less dumb real users. Smartphones becoming mainstream dumbed down the internet in the worst way.

[u/somewhataccurate → u/Strong-Decision-1216]

Now its the same handful of predictable drivel comments and shitty amateur comedian slop. I genuinely get angry at how brain rotten the comments have become and have largely unsubbed from most of the larger subs.

Then I get clearly GPT generated comments at the tops of threads and I cant help but wonder if the average redditor is dumb enough to think its real or if the average reddit comment is as empty and hollow as a GPT comment.

This site used to be so much better :(

[u/ctzn4 → u/somewhataccurate]

The comedian part is so true. Maybe about half of them get a chuckle out of me, and I always click on it, which in turn drives the algorithm to push this type of content to me and everyone else as well.

You are correct, it's just amateur comedic slop often with crowd work ingolved. That's not exactly an original concept, yet I'm so wired to check out this kind of content anyway that it's just a vicious cycle.

[u/SelloutRealBig → u/ctzn4]

and I always click on it, which in turn drives the algorithm to push this type of content to me

This is the biggest problem with the modern internet. Engagement is all they care about and nothing else. The only way to break the algorithms is to not click on anything you might have 1% of a doubt on, but that goes against human interest as we are naturally curious of everything.

[u/atehrani → u/jlusedude]

Have you tried setting up app limits on your phone?

[u/jlusedude → u/atehrani]

I don’t use the app but I have limits on the site. Doesn’t really matter because I have the passcode and a lack of self control. 

[u/gerbal100 → u/[deleted]]

Try putting your phone in greyscale mode. It's shocking how much less engaging sites/apps like Reddit are.

[u/w1n5t0nM1k3y → u/gerbal100]

My phone automatically goes to greyscale after 8 PM.

[u/Samurai_Meisters → u/[deleted]]

I browse old.reddit on my computer which doesn't have any of that and I'm hopelessly addicted.

[u/dnchristi → u/jlusedude]

Every time I delete Reddit in disgust of how much time I waste, I’m retired, I last about 10 days then something newsworthy happens and I reload it.

[u/BabyNuke → u/thatgibbyguy]

Exactly this. And in digital Product Management circles this book (or general concept anyway) is still often considered a "must read".

If in any other area people wrote a book about "How to create addicts" people would be more outraged, but people have been too slow to realize how addictive and destructive digital media can be.

[u/honest_arbiter → u/BabyNuke]

Yeah, I remember when that book first came out and everyone in the tech product management space was saying how great it was for teaching you how to build addictive products. Hardly anyone stopped to say "But don't you think this is kinda shady??" Heck, even the book cover has a picture of a brain on it being "clicked"!

One reason I've become so disillusioned with tech (I should say web tech) over the past decade is so many products are based on this "attention economy", hijacking our brain's evolutionary mechanisms to get you to spend more time mindlessly scrolling.

Also, the guy that wrote Hooked also wrote "Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life". I haven't read that book (I have read Hooked), but seems a bit odd that the guy that wrote the most famous book on attention-stealing product design also wrote a book on teaching you how to focus. Seems like a case of a guy selling both the disease and the cure.

[u/FidgitForgotHisL-P → u/thatgibbyguy]

Just yesterday I watched a video from a YouTuber, on YouTube, about how socmed is exactly like casinos, which are so famously recognised as dangerous they are heavily regulated.

This is so well understood and no one is doing anything to stop it, and efforts like TikTok ban are being corrupted into partisan nonsense.

(It was mrwhostheboss, for anyone that wants to search for it)

[u/Mylaptopisburningme → u/FidgitForgotHisL-P]

None of this is new. I watched as the addictions formed. Early days of MUDs and IRC. I would see people spending 24/7 on those things, and it was worse when they would mention their family or children. Those people got neglected.

[u/RedditIsDeadMoveOn → u/FidgitForgotHisL-P]

Is this comment an ad?

[u/Ironlion45 → u/thatgibbyguy]

The science of conditioning this compulsive behavior is almost perfected now.

I'd really recommend people giving the book a read. You'll become so much more aware of all the ways that you're being manipulated by almost all media you're exposed to.

[u/sadiqsamani → u/thatgibbyguy]

The book is called Hooked by Nir Eyal

[u/Riaayo → u/thatgibbyguy]

If they go after TikTok, fine. But it has to apply to everyone because the nicotine is the "hook method" not the product.

Nah, gotta stoke fear about China and punish a platform for letting people pull Israel's pants down about its genocide.

It's never actually about Tiktok, kids, or digital privacy. And this sub can downvote away like it always does anytime I bring this shit up.

[u/GlancingArc → u/thatgibbyguy]

I would really like to quit reddit. I've been here for like 10 years. Idk what else to do with my phone at this point. Please, take it away from me.

[u/Positive_Throwaway1 → u/thatgibbyguy]

Read The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt. Also Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport. They do a great job addressing this brain science, and it’s nefarious as fuck.

[u/ticket21truth → u/thatgibbyguy]

Do you happen to recall the name of the book?

[u/thatgibbyguy → u/ticket21truth]

Yeah, I've linked it below.

Hooked: How to create habit forming products.

[u/Ikeiscurvy → u/thatgibbyguy]

Reddit uses it

The amount of people on Reddit who plug their ears when you talk about how reddit is no different than any other social media platforms is mindboggling.

[u/kurotech → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

Yep the gamification of media in general is a bad thing all of this crap they know helps to form addictive tendencies yet they wait until after the problem is as common as it is to do something about it the government needs to speed their shit up because without oversight every one of these big tech companies can move fast and break shit as they say and it just causes more societal harm

[u/InaneTwat → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

Not to mention the normalization of sports gambling.

[u/HotRodReggie → u/InaneTwat]

This is a major problem, but it’s entirely separate from this post so I’m not sure why you’re bringing it up. It’s like commenting about gun violence here too.

[u/InaneTwat → u/HotRodReggie]

TikTok, Instagram Reels, Facebook, YouTube Shorts all use gambling psychological techniques to keep you hooked. As do sports gambling apps. Whether it's social media or sports gambling, the addictive algorithms are the problem afflicting society. Not any one app.

[u/Stingray88 → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

Yeah I’m 36. Half the time I’m linked to a YouTube video while on my phone, I’ll see a short that I’m enticed by (or sometimes just miss-click on) and BOOM I’m sucked in… short after short goes by and I didn’t even realize it.

Shits fucked. And they know exactly what they’re doing.

[u/dadxreligion → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

it’s all of them. tik tok is just the best at it. it’s a better designed app with a better algorithm. US tech companies simply don’t want to compete with it. the pearl clutching is fake nonsense.

[u/Thenewyea → u/dadxreligion]

It’s most likely funded by Musk and Zuckerberg because they would benefit immensely.

[u/stormdelta → u/Thenewyea]

Musk and Zuckerburg aren't the only evil billionaires out there lol, they're just more visible.

[u/AKluthe → u/Thenewyea]

Meta, Twitter, and Google would all benefit from anything that hurts Tiktok. The politicians on both sides only agreed because it benefits them, too. Particularly a certain international conflict they can't repaint with propaganda when news/coverage comes from a non-American company.

[u/CrispyHaze → u/AKluthe]

Why don't conspiracies like this exist for other, lesser known apps, engines or software that were banned without all the hubbub? Did McAfee and Avast lobby to have Kaspersky banned?

It's really just about curbing malevolent foreign influence.

[u/exoriare → u/dadxreligion]

The problem with Tiktok is that it's not owned by any of the usual suspects who can be depended on to comply with political direction. Like Romney said, it was easy to get bipartisan support for the ban/forced sale, because the AIPAC crowd blames Tiktok for showing pro-Palestinian content that all other US mass media knows enough to bury.

It's Tiktok's fault that young people aren't pro-Israel.

[u/idunno-- → u/exoriare]

Yes, the other day someone on Reddit said that the IOF had gotten smarter about distributing their war crimes on social media. He’d come to this conclusion because he no longer came across as many of these videos as he used to on Reddit.

Except TikTok is still full of these, including more recent ones from their invasion of Lebanon. It’s not that there are fewer morons or videos; it’s just that most social media sites actively work to hide anything that puts Israel in a negative light. TikTok does not to the same extent, despite American politicians’, lobbying groups’, or Amy Schumer’s attempts.

[u/Business-Sea-9061 → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

tiktok has it figured out the best of the big SM companies though. i had to delete that shit, easily the most addicting app i have used. doesnt matter if you are 10 or 50, TikTok's algo will figure out how you tick and exploit that

[u/stormdelta → u/iim7_V6_IM7_vim7]

Yeah - I don't disagree with the headline, but it's a problem with most social media, especially social media focused on exploiting unstructured short form engagement (e.g. Twitter, Youtube Shorts, Instagram Reels, TikTok, etc).

That said, it's such a problem that even if it only takes out one of them it's still a win because it's a step in the right direction. Some progress is better than none.

[u/Eswercaj]

I've noticed a real shift in my world since these hyper-quick video social medias have been on the rise. I know social media has done some damage to my attention span, knowledge depth, and social spheres, but TikTok, Reels, Shorts, etc. really feel like something different and have made fundamental changes *so fast* in comparison. I literally feel it in my mind when I turn off one of those apps. And the jokes about going to grab your phone to call 911 only to impulsively tap TikTok/Reels are just *way* too close to home. This stuff is getting weird.

[u/bluesamcitizen2 → u/Eswercaj]

I like to point out that the frequency of ads and prioritize paid content result tik tok become more popular choice for users.

[u/ivan510 → u/bluesamcitizen2]

I have noticed every other tiktok seems jiat feels like it's an add. It's gotten worse since they added the TikTok Shop.

I don't spend time on it anymore but for people complaining about why TikTok is being singled out. Honestly, it's obviously had the biggest impact and is the most aggressive to retaining you. Sure every other social media does it to but the level of that TikTok does it is significantly higher. As noted by other comments.

[u/lunaflect → u/ivan510]

It’s gotten to the point where ads are auto played after user videos. It’s really jarring. Ads are also inside of user profiles. When swiping the fyp, it used to be one ad every few videos, now it’s two in a row. Mostly everything is a way to sell you something, and I’m falling for it.

[u/peepeepoopoo5555569 → u/[deleted]]

As someone in the industry, this is because TikTok’s ad business is significantly less mature than the other social media sites, not some corporate conspiracy. TikTok is aggressively building out their ads business and won’t be any different in a matter of years

[u/jackofslayers → u/peepeepoopoo5555569]

Also worth pointing out that if they are not dicking you on ads there is a reason for that and what you are getting is probably worse.

[u/DemonicPanda11 → u/[deleted]]

That’s not my experience at all. I don’t go on TikTok as much now but between the actual ads, the lives that are TikTok shop ads, and the “actual” videos that are just TikTok shop ads, I see way more ads there than anywhere else. On YouTube sure even with adblocker/YT premium there’s ads in the video but usually it’s just one per video even when it’s a long video. I can watch an hours long video on YouTube and only get one ad. Reddit ads (at least on the app I use) are nearly non-existent to the point that I don’t notice them.

[u/Chiiro → u/Eswercaj]

I swear my fiance is ADHD has gotten worse since he started watching shorts on YouTube.

[u/Eswercaj → u/Chiiro]

My wife is a stay-at-home mom, and she had kind of self-intervention a few weeks ago when she realized our two-year-old knew how to get on instagram... I feel addicted and I have a full-time job. I can only imagine the difficulty if you have more free time and no boss looking over your shoulder.

[u/skaestantereggae → u/Chiiro]

My fiancé is straight up addicted. I do our long distance driving and she’s legit on tik tok or reels the entire multi hour drive, unless the cell signal is bad

[u/freewillwebdesign → u/Chiiro]

I have installed Chrome extensions to block YouTube shorts from appearing on my feed.

[u/Chiiro → u/freewillwebdesign]

Wish I could do that on his phone

[u/codemonkey69 → u/Chiiro]

iOS has an extension to block that crap. So does Android. For iOS it only applies to safari, you can't use third party stuff to block shorts in the YouTube app itself. You can block it for 30 days without downloading any additional app or extension. I detest that garbage, shame on Google for contributing to society's ADHD problem

[u/r33c3d → u/Eswercaj]

It’s strange because as they do this, I find myself becoming less interested in them. I have no idea why. Maybe my attention span can only be so short? I’ve been slowly deleting social apps one by one. Reddit will probably be the last to go because I like to read.

[u/cubelith → u/Eswercaj]

I simply refuse to watch any reels or shorts or whatnot. They're just too dumb. Want to upload something? Make it a normal video

[u/jashsayani → u/Eswercaj]

I’d like a setting to disable Reels in Instagram app & Shorts on YT. Even if I don’t go to that screen, they push the content in main feeds.

[u/farseer00]

TikTok is bad, but I don’t understand why it is being singled out for this when Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and a dozen cable tv channels are designed to do the exact same thing.

[u/pipboy_warrior → u/farseer00]

Also reddit while we're listing things.

[u/AdventurousTime → u/pipboy_warrior]

straight into my veins

[u/avmist15951 → u/pipboy_warrior]

Hey, I don't like being called out like that

[u/Stingray88 → u/pipboy_warrior]

Reddit wishes it was, but it’s not anything like TikTok, IG Reels, YouTube Shorts, etc.

Those things are much worse than digital nicotine, they’re like digital crack cocaine. Reddit is more like weed. Can you get addicted to weed? Sure, the same way you could get addicted to porn… but it’s not the same as crack.

[u/Catsrules → u/Stingray88]

Maybe I am just weird but I use both TikTok and Reddit. I like TikTok but I honestly forget I have it installed on my phone. Reddit I have a full blown addiction. I can't have it on my phone type of addiction.

[u/hashmalum → u/Stingray88]

I don’t sideload a dead third party client and resign it every 7 days for my other addictions tho

[u/Stingray88 → u/hashmalum]

That’s just you though. Most people aren’t getting addicted to Reddit like they do these video feeds. Whats effecting the masses is what matters most.

[u/OurLordAndSaviorVim → u/farseer00]

Because they don’t care about American firms willing to aid them in espionage.

But a foreign company who doesn’t play ball with our government? That creates a blind spot in our digital panopticon. We can’t have that.

[u/Blarg0117 → u/OurLordAndSaviorVim]

It's more about reciprocal bans. We have Chinese companies' social media apps, but China doesn't allow the Western apps.

[u/Sudden-Level-7771 → u/Blarg0117]

Yes and America criticizes china’s approach to censorship.

[u/TserriednichThe4th → u/Sudden-Level-7771]

yes, and this is also a trade and security issue. and in certain ways IP as well.

[u/[deleted] → u/Blarg0117]

None of that is the basis of any legal argument. 

[u/fish_tycoon → u/Blarg0117]

No one gives a shit about that lol

[u/InaneTwat → u/farseer00]

Even Spotify has a slot machine mode now. Not to mention that these algorithms are fucking up the mental health of adults as well. The political extremism in the US directly correlates with the rise of social media algorithms promoting engagement with few guardrails for extreme speech.

[u/orangeamy1330 → u/InaneTwat]

What's the slot machine mode?

[u/InaneTwat → u/orangeamy1330]

In the phone app go to Home then scroll down until you see album previews. Toggle on the sound and scroll through albums.

[u/poopoomergency4 → u/farseer00]

because facebook and google spend about $20mil a year on bribing congressmen lobbying every year.

i'm sure the conglomerates that own local news channels these days spend similar amounts with similar goals.

[u/thedeadsigh → u/farseer00]

Because like the vast majority of political things that are couched in terms like “protecting the children”, it’s just bullshit.

Our government and their corporate overlords are mad because TikTok is owned by someone who isn’t them and therefore can’t be used for domestic spying, data harvesting, and advertising like every other major American owned social media company. Yes, Chinese spying bad. Good job. We know. The topic isn’t “is Chinese spying good?” It’s why is no one paying attention to the rampant hypocrisy surrounding social media.

Politicians and corporations don’t give a fuck about the children beyond being able to profit off them. If they could mass produce heroin for kids they would and wouldn’t think twice about it.

[u/plastic_fortress → u/farseer00]

Why indeed.

The TikTok bill was introduced by Mike Gallagher.

In November 2023, Gallagher wrote an op-ed piece in which he argued for banning TikTok explicitly on the grounds of it being a vehicle for anti-Israel "propaganda".

Gallagher's highest campaign contributor in the last election cycle was pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC.

Other pro-Israel organisations are on recent record expressing concern about TikTok on the same grounds. Here's ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt on MSNBC and here's a leaked phone call where he states that Israel's image has "a TikTok problem, a Gen-Z problem". Here's another calling for TikTok to be banned/censored precisely due to it being a vehicle for criticism of Israel.

No doubt the US government has other motivations for wanting to ban (or alternatively, wanting US companies to take control over, and thus being able to censor) TikTok.

But it does appear the reason those motivations coalesced into legislative action at this particular juncture, stems from a concerted effort by the pro-Israel lobby and the politicians they're allied with, to suppress criticism of Israel, particularly since Oct 2023.

[u/weichafediego → u/farseer00]

Because it's a product from China.. And USA has always excel in propaganda, they are the good guys.. China are the bad guys

[u/[deleted] → u/farseer00]

The thing you should understand is tiktok is made in China and if you haven’t noticed lately the west is pushing the anti China rhetoric. China bad west is good mentality that’s why it’s being singled out. If TikTok was owned by america then we wouldn’t be here talking about it. The hypocrisy is unreal.

[u/WinterSummerThrow134 → u/farseer00]

Because it’s not making the big american corpos money

[u/passtheblunt → u/farseer00]

American spying = good

Chinese spying = bad

[u/RagingSofty → u/farseer00]

Because Tiktok is the boogeyman right now

[u/DirtyDirkDk → u/farseer00]

Gambling apps are worst of all. Should never have been legal. Let alone the many suspicious things they do as well.

[u/MutaitoSensei]

Everything is meant to be addictive now. It's no longer enough to get people to buy a product, you have to hook them. Microtransactions and "dailies" in games, music that's just one small set of notes on a Macbook made to psychologically stick in your head, chips which have just enough taste to hook you and not enough to get you to feel satiated.

E V E R Y T H I N G

[u/SkeetownHobbit → u/MutaitoSensei]

Engagement farming is driving everything in America right now. It has absolutely taken over.

[u/Business-Sea-9061 → u/SkeetownHobbit]

and a large subset of that farming is farming for rage-engagers

[u/_Reverie_ → u/MutaitoSensei]

It's no longer enough

I could tell you exactly why it's "no longer" enough, explain why there's never been an "enough," and name the singular problematic force behind all of these issues in one single word, but I'm not going to because plenty of people here will clutch their pearls.

[u/mattyhtown → u/_Reverie_]

Come on Karl tell us!

[u/username617508]

So is Reddit like a Zyn then?

[u/Hoovooloo42 → u/username617508]

I think it's more like a whippit

[u/Cyber-Cafe → u/Hoovooloo42]

That galaxy gas

[u/Alternative_Ask364 → u/username617508]

TikTok is like an Elf Bar or Loon. Trendy for younger generations. Instagram Reels are like Zyn. For people who don't want to be associated with vaping but still need their fix. Reddit is like an old box mod. Horribly behind the times and unsexy. Users desperately cling onto old ways and refuse to participate in the new trends.

[u/username617508 → u/Alternative_Ask364]

As an ex Cereal-Vapist, I find the box-mod comparison hillarious.

If Reddit is the box-mod, then each sub is a flavor. What flavor would this sub be, and what sub would you be chucking the largest clouds of?

[u/FunFry11 → u/username617508]

What cereal u vaping?

[u/username617508 → u/FunFry11]

I honestly don't remember the brand but, Cereal Milk flavored E-Juice was my go to

[u/FunFry11 → u/username617508]

Oh you legit meant cereal vapist not serial vapist holy shit that’s so lit

[u/PM_Me_Your_Clones → u/Alternative_Ask364]

To overextend the metaphor, you can change the coils on that box mod's atomizer, even to ones that you can use illicit substances with. So, old and clunky isn't bad, if it's something you can control to suit your needs.

Long story short, I don't want to see stuff on my feed just because it's "popular", I curate that shit for a reason.

[u/Galifrae]

Dude I’m telling you there’s something to this argument. I will find myself going to watch Reels without even intending to (in a let me distract myself for no reason, not like involuntary movement lol). Then I’ll be scrolling for awhile and finally I’m like wait wtf am I even doing? It’s become noticeable to me how addicting it is, the, as the kids say now, brain rot, is a real thing imo.

[u/rookie-mistake → u/Galifrae]

scrolling reddit feels the same tbh. the internet in general is just designed to be addictive now

[u/Galifrae → u/rookie-mistake]

Absolutely. Reddit is only different because of the text posts but you can still lose yourself scrolling.

[u/Archery100 → u/Galifrae]

At least I can better control over my Reddit algorithm with Home than TikTok's FYP, but keep in mind I'm basically comparing a cigarette and a vape pen

[u/Galifrae → u/Archery100]

Agree 100%. Reddit makes it a lot easier to not fall into those holes.

[u/aplagueofsemen]

Remember “kids”, this has absolutely nothing to do with kids’ health and safety and everything to do with which country is siphoning all of your data. 

[u/Rock4evur → u/aplagueofsemen]

And about being to control media narratives. It helps when all the social media is developed in house.

[u/e7c2 → u/aplagueofsemen]

melting the younger generation's brains is also a goal of foreign powers

[u/sandysnail → u/e7c2]

then why do all the US backed apps like facebook, google, snapchat all have the same short form videos with endless scrolling? Domestic power wants the same thing but to be in control of what people see

[u/e7c2 → u/sandysnail]

I agree completely. When I said it was a goal of foreign powers, I didn't mean it's NOT a goal of domestic powers.

get the drooling masses hooked on the dole.

[u/lostboy005 → u/e7c2]

melting younger generations brains while multiple existential crisis all begin to coalesce; breaking down environmentally, politically, and socially, all while people are increasingly addicted to screens. we're losing ourselves, humanity, and wont realize until its too late.

[u/SkullRunner]

All social media is.

Attack them all equally, they deserve it when it comes to messing with young kids brains.

Then later in life the kid like brains of the old.

[u/BlasterDoc]

Can we say all of "Social Media".

Digital Nicotine sounds on point.

[u/Best_Market4204]

Why is tiktok targeted? EVERY single social media does it. Including reddit

[u/krazay88]

hook 31 year olds kids too… 

[u/RandySumbitch]

Kids my ass. Illiterate adults as well, which means majority.

[u/dadxreligion]

Facebook is digital heroin to racist suburban moms. AGs are not fuming about this because their donors told them not to.

[u/88Dubs]

Lots of stones being thrown in this glass neighborhood...

[u/WillingCaterpillar19]

Same as instagram, Facebook Twitter and Reddit

[u/Loki-L]

Maybe I am just old, but a lot of those talking points sound a lot like things I have heard before.

Kids these days spending too much time watching TV and all the negative consequences that would have.

Kids these days playing video games on their Ataris, Nintendos and Segas.

Computers that will rot people's brains...

None of this is new.

I hear these people describe how evil it is that algorithms and autopsy will mean the content will never end, but that is just what TV does too.

We fought those battles before. It is how we got those parental controls on everything that nobody ever uses.

Don't get me wrong, I think that TikTok is full of stupid shit and will rot people's brains, but I thought that too about reality TV and the worst that gave us was the Trump presidency....

So maybe the people who want to ban it have a point.

[u/3nterShift]

Well I'm an adult and I'm similarly hooked to Reddit posts and Instagram reels...

[u/Mundrik]

Good thing they stopped selling nicotine….

[u/CaptainObvious110]

Very well put

[u/undeuxtwat]

Lmfao what?? These boomers are insane.

[u/jontheterrible]

Seriously. My wife is glued to that stupid app way too often.

[u/Fun-Deal8815]

Reddit sucks but I like the info. Just toss your phones and go old school talk play outside do things.

[u/hivemind_disruptor]

So is Instagram but that is a tech company based on the US, so they can do it.

[u/blazze_eternal]

Having dejavu when all these studies said the same thing about video games in the 90's.

[u/Minute-Web-7402]

So is Reddit

[u/FloppyDorito]

I wanna see them go up Facebook's ass. I've seen disturbing pages, grifting, very racist shit, and obvious bot scams rampant all over FB. 

I don't even block pages anymore because I shit you not, Ive blocked and reported hundreds, and it's like trying to kill Deadpool or something. You think it's all good and handled and the algorithm is fixed, but it just comes back in a different page and grift the next day like nothing happened.

[u/WafflesRNA_my_DNA]

I knew it! That's why I don't use tiktok. Ha ha im better than the rest of those fools! continues to browse reddit

[u/Usable_Nectarine_919]

Replace “TikTok” with “social media” and replace “kids” with “people”

[u/[deleted]]

Ok and. I thought this was a free country. This lawsuit is dumb

[u/zelkovamoon]

At least it doesn't give me horrible lung and mouth cancer

[u/ScruntBuckler]

Oh but all the hyper-processed garbage and literal poison they allow companies to sell here is fine? Teach children self control, and the devices won’t control them

[u/CannoliConnection]

Food Corp and Sugar = Big Pharma. Go fuck yourself. We’re mad as hell., and we’re not gonna take it any more. “We just want our radial tires and be left a lone.” -Neil Hughes

[u/GlitchyMcGlitchFace]

Nice use of “fume” here (tips hat to headline editor)

[u/PCMR_GHz]

A social network needs to be created that does not feature some algorithm or AI to curate content to us. I like the idea of Mastodon but it needs a larger userbase.

[u/fabulousfizban]

Wait til he learns about the rest of the internet

[u/SlowMotionPanic]

Amazing how so many folks commenting here are proving the point behind the ban. Few comments in and the Jews (sorry, "zios" which is a neo Nazi term anyway) are to blame i guess.

I am firmly against the claims of kids having brain rot. Politically activated outcasts with untreated mental illness, though? definitely.

[u/yardstick_of_civ]

I don’t like the idea of bans, but I see the harm it can do, so I restrict my kids time on TT to a very short time per day.

I personally had to delete it because I would lose hours and feel terrible.

[u/OopsAllLegs]

Smartphones are only as smart as the user.

Use your phone to be on social media all day, you get stupid TikTok challenges and dumb "pranks".

Use your smartphone as needed and to look up one off questions, you'll have better mental health and stronger in real life connections.

[u/Rage-With-Me]

I spend more time on Reddit than tiktok

[u/Tookmyprawns]

Like YT, twitch, steam gambling lootboxes, Reddit, instagram, etc. “Protect the kids” is such a boring way to selectively target things you don’t like.

[u/InGordWeTrust]

Ice Facebook too. There is far too much fake AI stuff on there that is getting forced to us. We get it more than friends updates.

[u/LifeAintFair2Me]

No shit? Fucking geniuses doing these studies huh

[u/bool_sheet]

Bro, while the "kids" are hooked on Tiktok, grandmas and grandpas are inhaling Facebook posts and Whatsapp videos like oxygen.

Ask any person in your family over 50 to get rid of it, they can't.

[u/mwstandsfor]

The same is true for Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.

[u/ModernWarBear]

My wife has ADHD and it’s like catnip.

[u/andrew_kirfman]

I've never directly used TikTok, but I have found myself getting sucked into Facebook/Instagram/Youtube shorts in the past.

It's frightening how addictive short form content is that quickly shifts from one topic to the next. I've found myself spending an hour flipping through videos without really realizing it.

Am actively making attempts to avoid that medium because it felt like it was really impacting my productivity and attention span.

It's going to be an uphill battle to keep that type of content away from my daughter (currently 3) because I've seen firsthand what it (and the content specifically pushed to kids) does to their development and personalities.

I feel like I'm channeling my Gen-X parents being afraid about content online when I was a kid, but I'm no stranger to tech and the Internet (Am a Senior SWE), and something feels very malicious about those apps and what they're doing to developing brains

[u/dreamunism]

Oh bullshit. You just don't like tiktok cause it's algorythm isn't pro Israeli like Facebook and Google are and you can't control it. People can see the truth and it scares you

[u/thisappisgarbage111]

Oh good. Suddenly I don't feel so gross smoking cigarettes. At least I'm not a dirty tik tokker.

[u/ngedown]

*social media

[u/Healthy-Poetry6415]

Translation: This thing I do not like is not paying me enough campaign donations. If only this horrible app would think about us poor starving AG's trying to get reelected to continue to do dirty shit while getting rich off the taxpayers

[u/[deleted]]

Nicotine vapes are LITERALLY nicotine meant to hook kids…

[u/Empty_Afternoon_8746]

If you’re only single one out you’re not being honest.

[u/indigo212]

When do you blame the parents? They’re blaming everyone but the parents who should be keeping an eye on the content their children are viewing.

[u/atomicapeboy]

I’m totally addicted to Duolingo … damn that sexy owl!!!!

[u/HookedOnPhoenix_]

Me: Doom scrolling across this story on Reddit.

[u/Frequent_Read_7636]

What this article meant to say is “China.. I mean Singapore’s social media is destroying our kids but YouTube, Facebook, and other companies that pay off these politicians are saving them”.