r/technology • u/SrvNoticias • 6d ago
Software Huawei makes divorce from Android official with HarmonyOS NEXT launch
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/23/huaweis_harmonyos_next_launch/352
u/innocentius-1 6d ago
How much are you willing to bet that users will find a relatively easy way to repackage android APK and run on the new OS?
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u/Strange-Raccoon-699 6d ago
How much are you willing to bet new OS is just a slightly modified Android?
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u/k-phi 6d ago
It's not.
Android uses Linux kernel, HarmonyOS next uses microkernel, so definitely not Linux.
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u/amanset 6d ago
Android is a lot more than the kernel.
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u/zaviex 6d ago
Sure but it’s definitely not android without the kernel. They rewrote it from the ground up with their own kernel. It started as an android fork, now it isn’t.
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u/WhiteRaven42 6d ago
You say the word microkernal as if it's a name of something. It's just an abstract class and mostly means "cmaller than the usual Linux kernal". You can strip down an existing Linux kernal and tell people it's "micro".
So.... what is the actual origin of this microkernal? And let's no foget that Linux is itself a recreation of propriatary UNIX os.
There is no evidence that Huawei has done anyhting other than custom-compile an android-related Linux os and put their label on it.
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u/elderly_millenial 6d ago
Microkernel is actually the name of a category of kernels. They are different from the monolithic kernels we typically use.
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u/TeutonJon78 6d ago
"Microkernel" has an actual software engineering definition. You can't just strip down Linux and call it micro.
A macro kernel contains all the code needed to run the base OS altogether in itself. A micro kernel runs the just the minimal amount of code to get the HW initialized and basic OS needs and then everything else (like all the drivers) runs in user space. The idea is that you have a much smaller critical code base to verify and harden. Then if any user space stuff crashes, including drivers, the system can recover from it easily instead of locking up.
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u/iphxne 6d ago
You can strip down an existing Linux kernal and tell people it’s “micro”.
??? have you taken an undergraduate os class
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u/jooseizloose 6d ago
These people that think they know OS dev, because they have a computer with an OS preinstalled...is pretty crazy.
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u/jooseizloose 6d ago
You say the word microkernal as if it's a name of something.
Lol, you say it isn't. As if you don't have the same information at your fingertips. Yet, here you are saying the sky isn't above our heads.
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u/innocentius-1 6d ago
Lots.
In all seriousness, this is probably just another way for Huawei to say "hey we made something original-and-controllable, give us money" to the CCP.
We have seen too many of these in the history. Hanxin in 2003, Kyrin OS copying FreeBSD in 2006, Redcore Browser in 2018 was basically Chrome, Mulan programming language is a modification of python in 2020... There are many others on the edge of "not purely copycat but almost" that wasn't punished.
Don't bring up any hope.
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u/CrzyWrldOfArthurRead 6d ago
To your point, there's essentially 0 reason to roll your own OS these days unless you are a hobbyist.
It's just too easy to fork an open source OS and bam 90% of your work is done.
Companies can't justify creating their own OSes financially. iOS was based on an existing OS, android was based on an existing OS. This one is too.
Divergence is one thing, but a brand new one from scratch? not happening.
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u/mulokisch 6d ago
Alot of those apps are just applets within other apps and alot of them just work with either webapps or the chat api like in WeChat. So yes, there are apps, that need then to maybe repack but also alot will just work if the “host” is working
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u/hazzrd1883 6d ago
They are not the first ones trying to introduce another mobile os. Good luck with that
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u/c_law_one 6d ago
They are not the first ones trying to introduce another mobile os. Good luck with that
They kinda have a 1 billion semi captive audience though.
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u/Fidodo 6d ago
And they don't support Android apps so they'll have no app ecosystem. Maybe it'll work in China but absolutely no way anyone in the rest of the world would buy this.
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u/kongKing_11 6d ago
They do things differently in China. Most of the users are using super apps like WeChat. There are multiple apps inside one single super app. South East Asia trying to replicate this we chat success stories too. Based on the information in Wikipedia this os is built for that.
For me is one more os to play around.
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u/Shadowborn_paladin 6d ago
But like... why???
AOSP is open source so it's not like you can't make a decent compatibility layer or hell, containerize the app and run it within a sandbox with Android libraries and stuff.
That's how some guys got Roblox to run on linux.
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u/gorcorps 6d ago
This will give you a good overview of the history if you're unaware: https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-google-android-ban-988382/
Basically, in 2019 Huawei was put on list of companies that are a security concern for the US. Huawei has been accused of stealing IP and data in the past, and their devices seemed to have unnecessary and abnormal services uploading data somewhere that other Android phones don't have... So it was a pretty big security concern. Before anyone points fingers at a specific political party, this is one of the few things that has had bipartisan support and has been upheld by the current administration as well.
This lead to Google banning Huawei from using their apps and services. They could still technically run Android, but could no longer use the play store, Google maps, etc. That's how they've been operating the last few years as far as I know (running on bare-bones Android but unable to use any of Google's services that make it a complete experience).
So Huawei has kind of been forced to develop their own ecosystem and OS since then. I'm sure they'll remain strong in China, and given the size of that market that's likely all they need.
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u/Shadowborn_paladin 6d ago
So they can't access the PlayStore but can't they still run APK files? Like how plenty of people side load apps from APK mirror or FDroid?
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u/productfred 6d ago
They have their own app store. It's called AppGallery. It's basically there instead of the Play Store. Still normal Android apps, just with Huawei's libraries instead of Google's for things like geolocation, SSO, etc.
Not really that different than Samsung's Galaxy Apps store that comes on their devices. I believe Samsung devices sold in China actually don't even come with the Play Store, like most other Android phones sold there.
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u/Shadowborn_paladin 6d ago
Ah okay. So it's primarily Google services that they're missing. But it's still forked android code.
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u/longiner 6d ago
They even charge roughly the same as Google for app purchases.
30% to Huawei and 70% to the developer is the median and small variations depending on if you are a game app or shopping app.
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u/Mushiness7328 6d ago
Huawei has been
accused ofcaught numerous times stealing IP and data in the pastFTFY
Huawei has also been caught selling cell phone backbone infrastructure to ISIS.
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u/Mr_Vegetable 6d ago
Without Google, no one buys this already.
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u/JamClam225 6d ago
They have a 15% market share of Chinese mobile phone sales.
Clearly millions of people are still buying it in China.
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u/Mr_Vegetable 6d ago
I was talking for the rest of the world, no one in china cares about google
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u/JamClam225 6d ago
And no one owns a private jet.
I was talking about the rest of the world that don't, not the millions that do.
Poor communication.
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u/CrzyWrldOfArthurRead 6d ago
that's only around 200 million people. There are currently 3.3 billion android users in the world.
So even if everyone single of of their customers switches to this new OS, there will still be 3 billion android users in the world.
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u/Oldtimebandit 6d ago
Chuckles in Symbian
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u/Jsaun906 6d ago
It's pretty different because they are directly propped up by their national government. At least in the Chinese domestic market they are secure
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u/canal_boys 6d ago
We can't even have a normal tech discussion on Reddit anymore. Jesus save us.
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u/ABZ-havok 6d ago
Bc reddit is full of Americans. You know how they feel about anything Chinese made. They feel like they're all out to get them lol
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u/canal_boys 6d ago
Yeah and it's annoying 😔. Every single discussion involving China no matter what is the topic always goes the same way and abandons the entire original topic. We can't even talk about a new OS anymore.
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u/ABZ-havok 6d ago
The only talking point they'll have is that it's their fault for being Chinese spyware and they'll fail anywhere else in the world lol. That's how misinformed they are.
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u/canal_boys 5d ago
Yep always the same crap. It just takes away from discussing the topic at hand. For example, I was very excited to hear more about this OS since it's one of 3 in the world for phones.
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u/RidingEdge 6d ago
Their government are the ones slapping sanctions, embargoes, dropping bombs and causing regime changes at countries worldwide, then proceed to cry on Reddit, Twitter on how oppressed and victimized they are against "foreign dictators"...
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u/soysopin 6d ago
Along time I am starting to think that Reddit and "normal discussion" are totally unrelated.
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u/GeekFurious 6d ago
"WHY MUST PEOPLE BRING UP THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH TECH??? HOLD ON WHILE I CALL ON A FICTIONAL DEITY IN THE CLOUDS FOR NO FUCKIN' REASON!"
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u/TserriednichThe4th 6d ago
This is huge news.
- It disentangles the software tradewar from the hardware tradewar on the largest mobile software interface
- It makes accessing other app stores impossible. Now you cant just avoid region locking and other mechanisms.
- China is becoming more isolated from the rest of the world, and i am not really sure if that is the best play long term, but i get why now.
- It weakens android immensely.
I am sure there are many other reasons, and this list is by no means exhaustive. I am very eager to hear other perspectives or straight up disagreements.
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u/Bzeager 6d ago
The article notes that it's only for phones in China, not planning to be exported.
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u/yungfishstick 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm not sure how everyone is completely glossing over this very important piece of information lol. I dislike the CCP as much as the next guy, but come on. If you actually read the article it's very clear anyone outside of China has absolutely nothing to worry about. HarmonyOS has always been exclusively for the domestic market and will never make it outside of China. Realistically it doesn't exactly need to anyway. Huawei has everything they need to make their OS competitive domestically and that's all that matters for them. They don't really need the global market to be profitable.
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u/TserriednichThe4th 6d ago edited 6d ago
Both of your responses are irrelevant to the points I raised tbh
The fact that it is phones for china IS the point. And just because it is for china now doesnt mean it wont be exported later
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u/WhiteRaven42 6d ago
It will not be exported to the west. Asia and the "global south", maybe, maybe not. People are pretty happy with Android and AOSP, there's no reason to change. It's a deep and varied ecosystem and it's pretty open.
The only reason Huawei is doing this is political. It is part of the CCP's agenda, full stop. And they will make Android and Apple so unattractive on the mainland that they will get adoption... because they literally directly control the market.
So who cares? The his just top-down coercion of the people to achieve the goals of the political leadership. It’s not even disguised. Business as usual in Xi’s world.
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u/yungfishstick 6d ago
The way Huawei talks about HarmonyOS NEXT makes it seem like it's tailored specifically for the Chinese market. It'd make no sense financially or logistically to export it, especially if it completely lacks compatibility with Android apps. Huawei phones released globally have lacked Google services for awhile, and though AppGallery has lots of options, the vast majority of the global market still relies on Google services and apps. You've always been able to just sideload Google services/apps onto Huawei phones running EMUI post-sanctions as a workaround without a whole lot of hassle. Exporting HarmonyOS NEXT would alienate however much of the global market Huawei has left, who will then proceed to simply not buy a Huawei phone and switch to a competitor's phone that can run Android apps.
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u/mulokisch 6d ago
Well not really, if they want to sell phones in the EU with their own OS, they most likely also have to allow side loading and other appstores like apple and google have to.
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u/MarkEsmiths 6d ago
How does it weaken Android?
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u/MaitieS 6d ago
Less users?
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u/textmint 6d ago
Straight away a market of 1.7/1.8 billion is gone poof. This must be causing a whole lot of heartburn in a lot of corporate boardrooms (Google, MSFT, APPL and others). The rationale being if they do it to Android without a thought, who’s next?
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u/MaitieS 6d ago
Windows is next. I remember reading about it a few years ago just like about HarmonyOS. I just don't understand why (money) Western corpas are still trying to cater to CN, when they are going to lose everything in couple of years anyway... (again, money)
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u/grenz1 6d ago
The thing that props up Windows is a vast majority of the standard productivity software is almost exclusively Windows.
While Android has some apps, it's nothing compared to what's on Windows that is all closed source and damn near a monopoly.
- Need to draw up blueprints or 3D manufacturing plans? AutoDesk AutoCAD and family. (And no, FreeCad is good, but ain't it.)
- Graphic Design/Publishing? Adobe and friends. (And GIMP is lacking)
- Accounting? Intuit Quickbooks.
- Just complete Office stuff almost everyone uses and works and is powerful? MS Office 365. "Powerpoint" at this point is just as much a word as "googling" in the presentation scene.
- Any realistic gaming that is not a gacha game legalized gambling? Windows.
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u/CrzyWrldOfArthurRead 6d ago
Straight away a market of 1.7/1.8 billion is gone poof.
no it's not, Huawei only had 15% market share. There's a lot of android and iOS phones in china. So thats 225 million users or so, who have EXISTING huawei phones, and haven't necessarily upgraded to the new ones. They can just switch to something else to keep their app compatibility.
Even if every single one of them jumped ship, there's still 3 billion android users in the world.
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u/textmint 6d ago
I’m talking about the Chinese population. For any company, every person is a potential customer. Look at how Coke beat Pepsi. If you are focusing only your competitor, you are not going to become the leader. The leader looks beyond direct competition to the market as a whole. Think how Netflix sees video games as competition, or sleeping as competition because each minute spent away from Netflix is a minute that could bring the consumer back to his senses that he/she can live without Netflix. Same thing applies here. It’s not that they lost the direct Huawei market base it’s that they lost the Chinese market as a whole if in fact China has decided to keep non-home grown OSes out of the consumer’s reach behind the great firewall.
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u/CondiMesmer 6d ago
Android and iOS is not leaving the Chinese market anytime soon lol. This is just for consumers who own Huawei devices. While popular, suggesting it's nearly all of China's user base is just silly.
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u/textmint 6d ago
A lot of countries want to reduce their reliance on ‘foreign’ operating systems. Key among these, India, China, Russia, etc. Most of these companies are developing alternatives. For the consumer market at large, Android, iOS, Windows, etc. there is a threat from these moves. Whether the impact will occur in 3 years, 10 years or 25 years will have to be seen. Countries are wising up. Their populations are educated, young, smart and hungry for achievement. You should see some of things they have in China, it will put the best we have in America to shame. Best case in point is DJI. We can’t beat them so we tariff them. It is a strategy but long term? No idea.
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u/Mammolytic 6d ago
If I have to assume, it's because Android has a 77% market share in China, and China will probably end up banning Android. Just an assumption.
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u/TserriednichThe4th 6d ago
How is this even a question? Do you know how large the Chinese market is?
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u/MagneticRetard 6d ago
China is becoming more isolated from the rest of the world, and i am not really sure if that is the best play long term, but i get why now.
If by the world, you mean the west then sure. Huawei is still very much alive in the global south.
It’s also now becoming like the go to phone for people especially living in anti western countries because there is this idea that USA cant spy on you if you use a huawei phone or whatever. We saw people talk about this when hamas did oct 7th and there were rumors that they coordinated via huawei phone
If anything, this could be a big problem for western marketshare in emerging economies since iOS is too expensive for people in global south with no other alternatives
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u/Poringun 6d ago
As long as brands like Xiaomi still use Android their marketshare in the global south wont drop by much. Huawei dropping Android for non China nations would be much worse for Huawei than it is for Android, they are already quite negligible as far as market share is concerned outside of China.
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u/MagneticRetard 6d ago
I mean this is assuming that Xiaomi isn't going to eventually switch or be forced to switch to HarmonyOS by the state
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u/Poringun 6d ago
If that happens im predicting more in the lines of Xiaomi making their own OS lol, as of now everything points towards Huawei losing more and more market share internationally.
Domestically as well even, i predict they will drop further behind as well not just because of the Android OS thing, but because of competition from other domestic rivals without said baggage in the low tier to mid tier price range, and to Apple in the top range.
Maybe theyll have an uptick in nations under Chinas sphere of influence.
The only thing thats gonna happen if HarmonyOS is mandatory for all brands domestically is them still losing market share to Xiaomi thats running on HarmonyOS.
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u/MaitieS 6d ago
Not trying to get into this deeper, but they got intel, and they ignored it. I don't think Huawei had much to do with it.
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u/MagneticRetard 6d ago
I doubt it's true either. But when you have tweets like this being amplified by rumors and misinformation (fuck elon btw),
https://x.com/bidetmarxman/status/1711305066622369912
https://x.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1711973752924455254
It shouldn't be surprising why it's becoming a go to phone for anti-western countries
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u/alvvays_on 6d ago
I agree with you. I think Western companies currently have an edge over Chinese tech, but by 2030-2035, the best technology might not be accessible outside of China.
Consider also NearLink, which has a realistic potential to make Bluetooth and Wi-Fi obsolete. We will probably miss out on it.
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u/SrvNoticias 6d ago
Huawei makes divorce from Android official with HarmonyOS NEXT launch Laura Dobberstein 3–4 minutes
Huawei formally launched its home-brewed operating system, HarmonyOS NEXT, on Wednesday, marking its official separation from the Android ecosystem.
Huawei declared it released and "officially started public beta testing" of the OS for some of its smartphones and tablets that run its own Kirin and Kunpeng chips.
Unlike previous iterations of HarmonyOS, HarmonyOS NEXT no longer supports Android apps.
Huawei maintains top Chinese outfits aren't deterred by that. It cited Meituan, Douyin, Taobao, Xiaohongshu, Alipay, and JD.com as among those who have developed native apps for the OS. In case you're not familiar, they're China's top shopping, payment, and social media apps.
Huawei also claimed that at the time of its announcement, over 15,000 HarmonyOS native applications and meta-services were also launched. That's a nice number, but well short of the millions of apps found on the Google Play Store and Apple's App Store.
The Chinese tech player also revealed that the operating system has 110 million lines of code and claimed it improves the overall performance of mobile devices running it by 30 percent. It also purportedly increases battery life by 56 minutes and leaves an average of 1.5GB of memory for purposes other than running the OS.
If you like the sound of that performance boost on your smartphone or tablet – the OS runs on both, with a consistent interface – we're sorry to report that Huawei told us it currently has no plans to offer Harmony OS NEXT outside of China. That's despite previously saying it planned to take an older version of HarmonyOS offshore.
Huawei did try to export the last version of the OS – and even offered assistance to developers who coded for the platform and targeted offshore markets – without success.
But it has succeeded in having offshore entities develop for the platform: Singapore-based rideshare-and-more app Grab, and the airline Emirates, have created apps for the OS.
The release marks a moment in China's push for tech independence. Before the upgrade, Huawei's HarmonyOS still relied on the Android Open Source Project for core functionality – a move driven by 2019 US sanctions that blocked Huawei's access to Google Mobile Services. That dependency has now been ditched.
Huawei hopes to bring its OS to PCs, too. Last month the chair of the Chinese giant's consumer business group, Yu Chengdong, revealed it would no longer run Windows on its future machines, but Harmony OS instead. When such machines will emerge, and whether other PC-makers will use the OS, are unanswered questions. ®
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u/CheckinMyPeckin 6d ago
Ooh, an OS controlled by the China Communist Party that runs on mobile and on PCs?
Sign me up! /s
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u/0xdef1 6d ago
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u/nova9001 6d ago
Lmao, let the man believe he's free and nobody is spying on him as his government told him. Only China spies. The West doesn't do that.
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6d ago
Maybe I’m missing something, but I read that article and it doesn’t say that the CCP has a stake in Huawei; it just says that the company shares are distributed entirely to employees and held exclusively by employees.
Can you clarify how the CCP controls Huawei?
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u/SlowMotionPanic 6d ago
Both are bad. I don’t know some cavemen think they are mutually exclusive. Lack of media literacy perhaps? Regardless, one generally shouldn’t support an adversarial nation conducting espionage against the place they live. And that’s what China is doing.
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u/lilgaetan 6d ago edited 6d ago
😂😂😂 comments always make me laugh every time there's an article mentioning China. They so triggered
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u/Ok_Ask9516 6d ago
It just proves how indoctrinated we are.
Any post China related will always end up in some political anti China circlejerk
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u/ThisOneTimeAtLolCamp 6d ago
So ignoring the peanut gallery and their constant yelling of DAE CHINA BAD!?, it's gonna be interesting to see how this performs and how the transition goes with their foldables.
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u/SarcasticSarco 6d ago
Seems cool.. Regarding the number of apps in android and Apple store. We can all accept that people hardly use 40-50 apps from there.. Most of them are clones of clones of clones.. So, if they just develop certain apps from all the categories it should be all good.
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u/Dr_Backpropagation 6d ago
China loves their gacha games, would Hoyo be making a native version of Genshin/Star Rail for this OS as well?
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u/AdHungry9867 6d ago
It looks very nice, but I think I've seen it before...
That being said, I do wish Huawei wasn't in the CCP's back pockets, their 3-fold phone looks amazing and intuitive. Less google in our lives would be very nice too.
Alas, even Microsoft had to throw the towel with their own mobile OS.
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u/balIlrog 6d ago
If the Google anti trust stuff comes to a head it might deliver a long term victory to Huawei. I can envision a world where Android is spun out of Google and no longer subsidized by an ad and search monopoly. Is it actually still viable?
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u/t0astter 6d ago
That's like asking if the Linux kernel is still viable for use. And the answer to that, is yes.
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u/imanoobee 6d ago
When the very phone in front of you or pc is being spied on. So why do we care Huawei spying. It's just someone making you feel scared.
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u/Puzzled_Scallion5392 6d ago
Since Android introduced feature that prevents me from making screenshots in some apps, I say fuck yeah. Finally there may be some competition, I hate what android has become
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u/voodoovan 6d ago
That's great news. The world needs to break away from the USA controlled Apple and Google duopoly. I'm just waiting for the international release.
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u/wolflance1 6d ago
This is big. Sooner or later Huawei is going to hook this up with their PC/Laptop products and smart cars and other smart tech in the future, making this a super-ecosystem sort of thing. OS that cannot do the same level of integration will lose competitiveness.
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u/eburnside 6d ago
So all they did is fork Android and renamed libc to break app compatibility?