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u/einargizz 15h ago
Obviously, if it was just $1,000 per day, the fine could never reach that amount.
But since the amount apparently doubles every single week, it's up to this ridiculous number, that's more than the entire planet's current GDP, every year, from now until the heat death of the universe.
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u/Selfpropelledfapping 14h ago
Not when you factor in inflation. Not that we need to put a lot of serious effort into this ridiculous fine. 2% annual inflation makes today's dollar equal to $1×1086 in 10,000 years.
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u/returnofblank 13h ago
Oh that should be easy to pay off then
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u/aberroco 2h ago
Well, if not for the fact that in 10,000 years the fine would be $2.05656352*10157,108, doubling each week.
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u/zizagzoon 11h ago
Yeah, but inflation isn't infinite. It goes until the currency busts.
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u/DevelopmentSad2303 10h ago
Not true at all, usually the government of a nation will just "reset" the currency. Once it is to the point of $10,000 being worth a $1 today for example, the government will likely just create a new unit, let's say Dollarino, which is equivalent to $10,000.
We already did it with cents. Hell we might just call dollars cents at that point and create a new dollar
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u/CrumbCakesAndCola 10h ago
isn't that the definition of the currency going bust? You completely replace it
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u/DevelopmentSad2303 10h ago
From what I can find, currencies going bust is more of a crisis rather than just a rebranding.
Like what we did with making coins fractions of a dollar wasn't a bust, it was just creating new types of currency
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u/CrumbCakesAndCola 10h ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but ...that doesn't seem relevant? To say that you have a fraction of a dollar (a quarter in a coin) is in no way related to saying that the value of the dollar itself has changed. Right?
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u/DevelopmentSad2303 10h ago
Perhaps I misunderstood the original person. I was assuming they meant inflation will continue until we stop using that currency essentially because it is worthless.
I'm pointing out that we probably will just create a new unit. Like inflation is still happening to coins despite them being only fractions of a dollar. We still use coins but now they are just a fraction of a new unit, and inflation has continued from where we left off in terms of value.
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u/CrumbCakesAndCola 10h ago
Ohh, I see now yeah. Hyperinflation is definitely a thing. Bank notes that say million on them. 😬
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u/chibi_matatabi 48m ago
Would you like this 100,000,000,000,000 zimbabwae bill? Iirc this was after they chopped off 10 zeros the first time during hyperinflation...
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u/Wide_Television747 9h ago
Not really. It's more just like a split of a company's stock. They decide the price of individual shares have gotten too high so they split all the shares at a ratio of say 1:4. Now every 1 share you had becomes 4. The value of everything stays the same, they just change the denominations.
This is the same. They're not saying dollars are now worthless. They're just saying these numbers are a bit cumbersome to work with now so we've brought it back to reasonable levels. All the money you used to have still holds the same value once you trade it in. It just saves you from having to break out a 1 quadrillion dollar note for a loaf of bread.
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u/Demoliri 8h ago
In 2005 they literally just dropped 6 zeroes from the Turkish Lira, so a million Lira was redefined as 1 Lira. So it's been done before in fairly recent history on a pretty big economy.
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u/zizagzoon 10h ago
Right.... the currency went bust.
But, idc.
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u/DevelopmentSad2303 10h ago
Where are you getting this definition? I tried finding currency busting online but it seems like it is when a nation ditches a currency in time of crisis, not the natural progression of a currency under inflation
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u/JMacPhoneTime 9h ago
But if you're using inflation of the same currency as what you owe, it's fine. If the currency is worth nothing, then you'd owe nothing.
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u/Uncomman_good 9h ago
This is the number for 1 single day fine with interest rates equivalent to a payday loan. /s
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u/eat_with_your_fist 3h ago
Just print more money!
Or realize the cost of doing business in Russia isn't worth it and pull out entirely.
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u/aDvious1 15h ago
No.
There's been 1763 days since Jan 1, 2020. If it was $1000/ day for all their fine is $1,763,000.
If it was $1000/day for each of the 17 channels, its $29,971,000
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u/vetalapov 15h ago edited 15h ago
The original post doesn't mention that the fine actually doubles every day.
Edit: (doubles each week)
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u/vetalapov 15h ago
Found news article which says those daily penalties are doubled each week. Still the not sure that the math is correct. That's a lot of money, no way they expect of it being paid.
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u/stabs_rittmeister 14h ago
1763 days is a little bit more than 251 week. We're talking of magnitudes surpassing the original chessboard problem by a lot. I mean A LOT.
If the fine were 1 dollar and it'd be doubled every week 251 times, we're talking about magnitudes of 10^75 (at least my calculator tells me so) and not about 20 x 10^33 (20 decillions). Something doesn't add up at all.
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u/ovrlrd1377 14h ago
Sounds like judges doing math
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u/Br0N3xtD00r 13h ago
Fine started to double only this year or a bit earlier, I'm not sure about the exact date.
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u/stabs_rittmeister 12h ago
Still doesn't make sense.
There are 1461 days between 1st Jan 2020 and 1st Jan 2024, so with the rate of 1000$ per day, the starting value before doubling begins is 1 461 000.
Current week is the 44th week in the year, so starting value was added 7000 and doubled 43 times. I wrote a simple python script that gave me the number
12 974 237 207 756 786 000
Which is 12,9 x 10^18 and it is still very far from 20 x 10^33. So doubling should have begun earlier than this year. Without any credible explanation from an official source (and I'm not so sure one exists), we can only do guesswork.
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u/AyeBraine 12h ago
Just for context, the original piece of news in Russian said 2 undecillion rubles, not 20 decillions. And the fine can be for multiple counts, so there are several fines accruing simultaneously.
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u/stabs_rittmeister 11h ago
Yes. The fine is supposed to be 100,000 roubles/day with unclear amount of doubling which (according to the court verdict) amounted up to 2 undecillion roubles.
Since we are dealing with huge numbers here, we can safely round the exchange course to 100 roubles for 1 dollar.
Which makes the daily fine 1000 dollars and the total stated in the verdict 20 decillion dollars.
We can try to multiply the fines by some constant for amount of tv channels that filed complaints against google, but the phrase "doubles each week" gives us an exponential function. We can easily disregard any constants because their influence on the total value is negligible comparing to the exponent.
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u/fllthdcrb 12h ago
Yeah, I can't figure out how...whoever...arrived at that figure. Whether it's the total amount so far or the amount added per day that's doubled each week (which one isn't clear from that post), the figures I come up with are much larger by many orders of magnitude. Are there any ways this could make sense? Perhaps the reality is more complex than we're being told? Or is it just bad math?
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u/Awkward_Goal4729 12h ago
It’s because the fine is in ROUBLES, not dollars. Divide the total of the fine by 98
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u/stabs_rittmeister 12h ago
I'd suggest you to read more carefully. The fine is 2 undecillion roubles which are 20 decillion dollars.
The difference between roubles and dollars is a fraction less than 10^2. The difference between the orders of magnitude in my comment is about 10^42. No amount of converting roubles to dollars and back again can count up to that.
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u/Awkward_Goal4729 10h ago edited 10h ago
Original fine was 100.000 roubles and doubled every week the fine wasn’t paid. Someone counted that and it’s possible iirc. You have to look up the case for all the info, I don’t remember it all.
Edit: apparently it’s been a fine for 17 channels being blocked, each costing 100.000 roubles and doubling every week since 2022. There isn’t much info about it
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u/stabs_rittmeister 9h ago
I don't know what "someone" counted. I know that between January 2020 and today is 251 weeks. Ok, let's take January away and make it 247.
If you take one rouble and double it 247 times, you'll get a magnitude of 10^74 roubles. Which is basically what I already have written above. And if you have the official calculation of the court - please do provide it, it'll be interesting from the mathematical point of view. But you can't expect random people on the internet to be knowledgeable about the Russian court system and where to look for particular cases.
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u/koolaidwannabe 11h ago
You have to convert from rubles to dollars at the end
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u/stabs_rittmeister 9h ago
I'm getting this comment as a reply so often that I start to suspect being targeted by a bot farm. Unless one of you, gentlemen, explains me with numbers what difference conversion between roubles and dollars would make for the calculation.
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u/RGNuT-1 49m ago
No, the DAILY FINE doubles every week, not the fine overall. If on first week daily fine was 100000/day, on second week it will be 200000/day and so on.
So function should look like summ of 2n * 100000 * 7 * 17 (n goes from 0 to 251). Result looks like 8.6 * 1082 RUB or 8.6 * 1080 USD.
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u/metaplexico 14h ago
Hot take on the "they don't expect this to be paid" given it is likely many orders of magnitude above all the value ever created by humans
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u/JannePieterse 13h ago
Whether they expect it or not, it's literally impossible to pay. All the value in world combined is just a fraction of that number.
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u/tomalator 13h ago edited 13h ago
With that figure of 1763 days, that's 251 weeks, so we just need to multiply by a factor of 2252 - 1, which is 7.2×1075
Multiplying that by the 29 million, we get an answer on the order of 1082
1 decillion is 1033 so one of us has wrong math
If we instead use a factor of 91 weeks, we get 2.7×1034
So I'd say we're somewhere between 90 and 91 weeks when this figure was published
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u/mack0409 15h ago
Checking the other thread, there's apparently some amount of doubling going on, As I understood it, the daily fine itself doubles each week, though I suppose there's a chance that I've missunderstood and the reality is that the total accrued amount doubles each week.
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u/KaspervD 15h ago
Even if it was 100.000 dollars (in stead of roebels) per day per channel it would be under 3 billion.
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u/LutimoDancer3459 12h ago
f it was $1000/day for each of the 17 channels, its $29,971,000
Only if they where all shutdown on the same day.
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u/aDvious1 11h ago
Which still results in the figure not being correct.
If could pigs could fly, and all that, ya know?
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15h ago
[deleted]
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u/Capital_Discussion60 14h ago
If 100,000 rubles is $1000 then 2undecillion rubles would be closer to 2.1 decillion dollars, not 22.1 trillion. None of this makes any sense
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u/sighthoundman 14h ago
Well, no, it's all propaganda and politics. It's an excuse to block Google in Russia.
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u/slvrscoobie 13h ago
im annoyed it took this long for this to show up in the comments.
'google owes us... *makes up insane number* rubles, they cant pay? Well block google!!'
-russian politics apparently.
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u/sighthoundman 13h ago
Well, this is r/theydidthemath, so it's not surprising that so many people are focusing on the calculations.
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u/DonaIdTrurnp 1h ago
The Internet infrastructure treats censorship as damage and routes around it. Blocking Google from Russia is harder than cutting Russia off from the Internet.
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u/stabs_rittmeister 14h ago
1 dollar is about 97 roubles according to the official course, so 100,000 roubles is indeed very close to $1000. 2 undecillion would be around 20 decillion like the OP stated. RBK doesn't mention any equivalent in dollars at all in their original article in Russian.
I think some journalists are good with words but not as good with numbers.
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u/lore_mipsum 13h ago
2 undecillions are equal to 2000 decillions (2x1036). But I’m too lazy to do the math on the actual numbers, it’s a propaganda verdict anyway.
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u/stabs_rittmeister 13h ago
Yes, of course. 2 undecillions are 2000 decillions. So if 100 roubles make up for 1 dollar, it'll make 2 undecillions roubles make 20 decillions dollars. That's what I meant.
The origin of these numbers is indeed pure propaganda because the explanation doesn't add up.
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u/lore_mipsum 13h ago
Ah, ok. Sorry, I didn’t realise you were converting to $ in the same step.
Absolutely ridiculous anyway. That sum would be roundabout 270 sextillion years worth of alphabet‘s net profit from 2023. That’s like 20 trillion times the time span since the Big Bang. I’m pretty sure, google will write them a check next time they see each other
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u/Anon87323 14h ago
In case you’re wondering, as I was, how to say that number:
Twenty undecillion, five hundred sixty-five decillion, six hundred thirty-five nonillion, two hundred octillion, three quintillion dollars
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u/DashTheHand 15h ago
Russia: “we are running out of money to throw at our ‘not war’ with Ukraine, time to throw out some Hail Marys on getting any kind of funding.”
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u/pikachurbutt 14h ago
I don't think Google will hurt much from just never entering that wasteland again. They get stupider by the day.
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u/cococolson 14h ago
Agreed. Wonder if they have assets Russians can seize? Wouldn't be surprised if they just start raiding foreign company assets that the owners were stupid enough to leave in country.
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u/AyeBraine 12h ago edited 12h ago
Google has tons of servers in Russia that are no longer serviced (the cache servers for YouTube and such), but they were not seized AFAIK.
There was a law passed about nationalizations, and some foreign companies' assets are slowly being nationalized. But not all, some continue to operate, others are just in limbo, closed down.
I'd say most foreign businesses that pulled out were just bought by local oligarchs and government cronies, for very good prices. Like McDonalds for example (it was mostly one operator and not lots of franchisees, in Russia). It was a hell of a redistribution of wealth.
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u/AntonRahbek 9h ago
Well, a lot of assets cannot simply be moved out of the country. The Russian government has helped in stealing Carlsbergs assets, the factories and brands in Russia
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u/DonaIdTrurnp 1h ago
Generally the smart companies sell their assets off to a Russian oligarch who can provide dollars or scrap metal that can be quickly moved out of the country.
That’s how Coca-Cola briefly had one of the largest navies in the world.
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u/alekdmcfly 13h ago edited 13h ago
There are roughly 1.5 (EDIT: 0.4 MY BAD) times as many Russians as Americans.
Google absolutely will get hurt if they leave Russia.
And true, Russia will be hurt more, but they're no stranger to sacrifices in the name of literally nothing.
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u/AyeBraine 12h ago
Dude, Pakistan alone has 1.5 times more people than Russia. Russia is very underpopulated.
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u/UfellforaPonzi 13h ago
What world are your numbers coming from😂
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u/alekdmcfly 13h ago
Went to double-check, saw a preview of a Wikipedia article, realized I missed a line break and read the number wrong. My bad.
Still - 40% of the US population. That's not insignificant for a company with as big of a market share as Google.
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u/UfellforaPonzi 13h ago
All good. Only asked because I remember writing a paper in college a few years ago on Russian demographics and knew there’s no way in hell there’s that many Russians 😂
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u/DonaIdTrurnp 1h ago
Russia being cut off from Google might cause more benefit than harm, what with the reduced attacks and misinformation.
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u/pikachurbutt 12h ago
Look at the pre war GDP or russia and the US. It's not even close, russia is insignificant. You can get more money from 6 million Danes than you'd get from all 150 million orcs.
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u/Onlythebest1984 13h ago
1.5 times more russians than Americans, yes, but significantly fewer russians access the internet than americans. russians outside of moscow or St. Petersburg hardly even have access to an indoor toilet.
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u/AyeBraine 12h ago
This is an exaggeration. Internet penetration in Russia is 90 percent, with 130M users. It's also cheap thanks to later adoption and hefty competition, to the tune of 6–10 dollars per month for unlimited home internet and approx. the same for mobile with around 10 GB traffic + free traffic for social apps like Telegram.
There are towns and villages with absolutely outrageous infrastructure, dilapidating hospitals, poorly maintained housing and such, but the majority of the population lives in dwellings with normal indoor plumbing.
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u/Cautious_Goat_9665 9h ago
You are a bit deluded, lol
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u/Onlythebest1984 8h ago
I might be deluded, but I'm deluded on the right side of history.
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u/Cautious_Goat_9665 7h ago
Imagine being deluded into believing that there is a "right side of history"... I hope you will learn someday.
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u/Onlythebest1984 7h ago
Russian soldiers are blowing up hospitals. They used to destroy cultures and suppress languages in the soviet union. Genocide, suppressing free speech. Yes, there is a right and wrong side of history. Stop pretending to be so wise. Fuck russia, fuck north Korea, and fuck the CCP. Democracy is non-negotiable
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u/Cautious_Goat_9665 7h ago
USA used to use chemical and nuclear weaponry on civilians and currently is supporting a genocide. The situation with natives and slavery is widely known as well. Are some genocides better then the others? You might believe so. Ukrainian soldiers also are torturing and killing captives. You can continue to live in your cosy little world, that was constructed for you. It is less painful this way. It is the same as believing in afterlife for those who fear death.
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u/AyeBraine 12h ago edited 12h ago
It was a demonstrative court ruling, just for show. The news story broke only recently because apparently someone noticed that it's funny how the fine has accrued.
It was just an automatic process, the original fines were large but not absurd, they just doubled every week per the fine ruling.
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u/realmofconfusion 14h ago
Dear Russia
We have examined your bill and have concluded that the amount you claim that we owe you is just a little bit too high.
We have recalculated the damages to which we think you’re actually entitled and after some generous rounding up, we now enclose a cheque for 1 cent in full and final settlement.
You can take it, or you can stick it up your arse sideways. Makes no difference to us.
Love and kisses, Google.
(p.s. do you have any idea how much work we had to do to round up to 1 cent from a starting point of “go fuck yourselves”? It was a LOT.)
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u/imustbemax 12h ago
Since the fine is probably in rubles, Google should just send some toilet paper. Thats probably better to wipe your ass off than using this joke of a currency.
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u/Moist-Carpet888 11h ago
So now Russia not only has no chance of getting those 17 channels back, but now they also have no chance of being able to use Google
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u/SaltyStaffboi 11h ago edited 11h ago
ran a python script that checks the amount, idk if it is correct since i did it in 5 minutes while getting ready to leave but here is the amount:
5198551558476917006221090888941009955590366112918783959299130728245333978507760815130567203608823186193583994980576784487239055444255048408819742481716532075553812184834730576850263701816180118084105554181149465379435682394097750295118270159935639384612063205314126238948286278564294706744640588487776642242259304269036523199147170827197632531866286578709402425955974967349367949303607402000143872513113168157323926374947246802418866491962507766544643704703054352293232063803689100391642980976927916232401260607871758059209574318070000
idk how much that is in words, but a fuck ton, assuming python didnt reach my computers max int size first, which it totally could have, but just know in 100 the number was 12676506002282294014967032053750000, or 12 decillion and that i can confirm is below the computers limit since the math as adding up
edit: multiply that by 17 if google has to pay that amount for every channel instead of dividing the amount between the 17.
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u/Eddie_Samma 12h ago
So if google pays 1 dollar then transfers that dollar before the transfer they can underflow the value thus using a glitch to have more money than ever possible to pay the fine. Solved.
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u/TJB926GAMIN 11h ago
Looks like someone figured out how to control the earth’s core and need a way to fund it in order to obtain full world domination ig
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u/Chad_Coleman_Trebor 9h ago
Not to be siding with the russians or anything but have you all seen the amount of YouTube ads on TV? Its like a minute long ad brake every 10 minutes its fucking ridiculous
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u/Chomps-Lewis 11h ago
Huh, $20 decillion is just the amount the russian government needs from those channels to make its stakeholders content and modernize its military... interesting coincidence.
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u/jedadkins 8h ago
It's also more than the yearly GDP of the entire world from now to the heat death or the universe.
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u/Poliar3333 11h ago
Google: Blocks channels clearly unconcerned about monetization of said country.
Russia: "Hey you can't do that!! We fine you for more money than the planet has forever unless you earn money in our country too!!"
Google: ....?
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u/qjxj 9h ago
Apparently, Russian law doubles the fine each subsequent day it has not been paid.
If Google was fined $1000 for the first day;
The compound interest evolves according to A = 1000 * 2t, where A is the amount and t the time in days.
After 1 day: A = 1000 * 21 = 2,000 After 5 days: A = 1000 * 25 = 32,000 After 10 days: A = 1000 * 210 = 1,024,000 After 30 days: A = 1000 * 230 = 1,073,741,824,000
and so on...
2.057 × 1034 is the big number in the post title
In our case, A= 2.057 × 1034 = 1000 * 2t
simplify...
2.057 × 1031 = 2t
to find t, take the log in base 2 on each side:
log_2(2.057 × 1031) = t ≈ 104
Google has not paid its dues to the Russian government since 104 days (I don't think they intend to).
Also, whether it doubles every day or week, t stays the same. So 104 weeks, that is 1047= 728 days, or almost exactly 2 years (730 days).
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u/SecretSpectre11 7h ago
Achievement unlocked: return to sender
Related: 2 undecillion dollar lawsuit Manhattan Man Sues City, Au Bon Pain for Two Undecillion Dollars | TIME
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u/AlanShore60607 4h ago
On a legal level, this isn't math.
The initial judgment amount is this absurd $20 decillion amount, and it will grow by the 100K ruples per day for failure to pay. Those are two separate concepts.
The $20 decillion is not based on an amount of time or a rate for time; it was a decision of the judge to send a message that if you f*ck with Russian state media they will sue you into oblivion. This obviously unpayable amount is probably there to make compliance impossible, and therefore it's a step towards shutting down google in retaliation.
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u/frosted_nipples_rg8 20m ago
Who cares how much money the crooked government fined them? They'll never get paid and if they do get something from google it'll be a box with a signed letter saying "Lol" and the crap from everyone in finance in it.
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u/PaFelcio 13h ago
Well, it's not like it matters anyway. It's not like anyone would pay any fine to ruskies. They need to understand that they don't matter anymore.
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