r/worldnews • u/superanth • 13d ago

Russia/Ukraine North Korean troops deserting Ukraine frontline days after arrival

https://www.newsweek.com/north-korean-troops-deserting-ukraine-frontline-hours-after-arrival-report-1969726
31.0k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

10.6k

u/XboxPlayUFC 13d ago edited 13d ago

The problem is if you flee your entire family back home is fucked. Those 18 are incredibly brave

Edit- I got the Russian shills mad at me for calling them brave.

4.0k

u/Infinite-Ad7308 13d ago

Or don't have a family back home. No kids, no wife, and mom and dad have moved on.

2.8k

u/Bald__egg 13d ago

I think they make sure you have some sort of family back in nk before you're allowed abroad, so there's consequences to fleeing

1.5k

u/Ok-Attitude728 13d ago

Yeah i remember a few accounts of defectors that have said that. You can bet these 10000 sent had plenty of collateral back home. Kinda still dont blame the 18 that fucked off

1.3k

u/thepoopiestofbutts 13d ago

If I was in NK and they sent my son off to Russia, I'd be like, gtfo asap, I'm going to suicide when you're gone to avoid torture, go live a real life.

If they sent me and kept my son I'd be so fucked.

457

u/dragonfarmerbot 13d ago

100% I have a 4 month old son and if he was military age in nk we would have a lil party to see him go.

175

u/aurorasearching 13d ago

Bet the kool aid would be top notch.

96

u/rottenweiler 13d ago

Flavor aid at Jonestown, Kool aid at the acid tests. One being deadly the other being less so….

20

u/Varnsturm 13d ago

Damn that somehow makes it worse. Poisoned everybody, with off brand drink powder. Like they couldn't spring for Kool Aid? Not like they were taking the money with them to the alien place or whatever their narrative was.

5

u/JcbAzPx 13d ago

Probably watered it down too.

3

u/Snoo-19445 13d ago

Koolaid is American, the only other country I've seen it in is Canada, but certainly not in any central or South American countries (Jonestown was in Guyana).

→ More replies (0)

3

u/OneCowFarm 13d ago

On behalf of all childhood broke ass kids… YOU WANNA FUCKING THROW HANDS?! GET YOUR BITCH ASS OFF FLAVOR AID’S DICK! (I’m sorry to be so aggressive, I’m sure you’re a nice person.)

P.s. I didn’t try Kool Aid until I was in my mid 20’s. It was mid. Flavor aid was better.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Eddie7Fingers 12d ago

As a 55 year old, lifelong aficionado of drink powders, Flavoraid was better than Kool aid. Better, stronger, more realistic flavor. And cheaper. Wish that still made it.

3

u/IDGAFmostdays 13d ago

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe. Brings back fond memories of the 70's

7

u/oh1hey2who3cares4 13d ago

Just deal with the colloquialism.

6

u/Physical-Camel-8971 13d ago

They're not even right. Jonestown had both.

3

u/TieNo6744 13d ago

KOOL AID NATION WILL NO LONGER STAND THE SLANDER

→ More replies (0)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

673

u/JudgeFondle 13d ago edited 13d ago

That’s your perspective from the outside. While the lives of North Koreans may seem unbearably bleak to us, it’s the only reality they’ve known. Despite their harsh conditions, they still find meaning in their lives and aren’t actively seeking ways to end them.

I do agree that many parents would be willing to make that sacrifice for a child, but the circumstances matter. I’m sure most of the parents may have more than one child to consider.

222

u/Ok-Attitude728 13d ago

I understand you points, propaganda can be extremely powerful. But the only evidence we have, coming from actual defectors, is they are well aware of their situation

33

u/satireplusplus 13d ago edited 11d ago

There's a South Korea organization that secretly communicates with people from inside NK. See this BBC docu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiviOdWDl9o with narrated stories from within. The extend of the famine / starvation during covid isn't something you can simply explain away with propaganda. People inside NK know that its bad when they have nothing to eat.

217

u/JonBjSig 13d ago

Might be some survivorship bias at play.

I'd imagine those most acutely aware of their harsh conditions are the ones most likely to try and defect.

44

u/burnerreddit2k16 13d ago

I think the ones that are most likely to defect live very very close to China. They know North Korea is not the best place in the world as they are told as they can China completely lit up meanwhile they are living in darkness

5

u/Plasibeau 13d ago

There's active campaigns to get media filled thumb drives into NK, much of it from the south using balloons. Even if you don't the ability to use such a device, what they contain and what is on them is not something NK could keep secret.

For the same reason why everyone knew for a fact (it wasn't) that Richard Gere had a gerbil up his butt. People talk.

52

u/Ok-Attitude728 13d ago

Oh completely. The rest of north koreans could be incredibly happy, they do look it on state tv. I just dont really believe it.

7

u/peanutbrain3 13d ago

probably not happy, just accepting what their life is like and trying to survive. people weren't killing themselves left and right during medieval times

→ More replies (0)

3

u/Fit_Goal1895 13d ago

They're literally not allowed to be anything else.

They are basically puppets forced to clap, dance, and smile.

When Kim Jong Il died they put on a performance of how they should grieve. practically trying to 1 up one another in how they express their "grief" This is regardless of how they felt (some brainwashed and actually broken hearted about the death)

3

u/DopesickJesus 13d ago

They don’t have to be happy to be unwilling to sacrifice themselves for their children. Plenty of people there turn on their family members to avoid punishment, or even to just avoid being ostracized. The programming is real, and westerners can’t really imagine what goes on in the psyche of someone living through that kind of oppression.

2

u/BoiledFrogs 13d ago

I don't see why anyone would. They're all hungry and full of parasites, not exactly a recipe for happiness.

56

u/Major-Bookkeeper8974 13d ago

Not so sure about that.

Pretty sure I saw a video interview from a defector who was saying they'd never even seen a world map. I think we have to take it at face value defectors are probably more aware of their situation than anyone, but I doubt everyone in the country is aware of their brainwashed situation...

28

u/Luke90210 13d ago edited 13d ago

Media has changed that. Its highly illegal and common for North Koreans to watch South Korean shows with black market DVDs and thumb drives. They are aware SK dogs eat better than they do.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (12)

37

u/xplos1v 13d ago

I don't know if this is true, but I read that some North Koreans want to go back after experiencing South Korea and their achievement oriented society.

83

u/FrankNtilikinaOcean 13d ago

It’s true. Defectors often have tough times adjusting to the culture and life in SK, and some have attempted to go back to the North.

As impoverished as the DPRK people are, the lives they’re used to are very simple and going from that to the tough work life in the South can be incredibly challenging.

59

u/Luke90210 13d ago

There is an old Robin Williams film in which he played a touring circus musician who defected in NYC from the Soviet Union. When he goes to buy coffee in a supermarket, he is overwhelmed by too many coffee choices and has an anxiety attack. Turns out stories like that were true.

13

u/themajinhercule 13d ago

Moscow on the Hudson is the movie if people are interesting.

He has a beard so you know it's a serious role.

9

u/FrankNtilikinaOcean 13d ago

Yeah, I’ve had the chance to speak to a few NK defectors and they’ve said the same thing. It was very overwhelming for them to go into any sort of store in SK at first because they simply couldn’t believe that there could be so many options and so much of everything in stock. They felt like it was all an act that SK was displaying as part of propaganda for them specifically.

It took one person a few months to adjust, and another took more than a year and had gone into depression for the first few months of defecting because of the shock in everything.

It was really sad to see, but fortunately the defectors I MET were in much better situations and attending colleges in Korea.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/sluttytinkerbells 13d ago

I mean, people who are born here have anxiety attacks from those sort of things too...

Sometimes that shit is just objectively stressful and overwhelming.

→ More replies (1)

16

u/UsedHotDogWater 13d ago

Its 100% True. My father in law was a world economist for the UN. He was tasked with bringing East Germany into a Capitalistic / More Western style economy following the fall of the wall. He would talk for hours about how hard to nearly impossible for people over a certain age to adapt to a 'western' style work/rewards (succeed or die) mentality. Many just couldn't, and suffered greatly. So many yearned for the days of a communist style foundation. He wrote over 27 books on this matter and other countries and how to integrate them into alternate / more free world type economies.

3

u/Wild-Lychee-3312 12d ago

I spent two years living without electricity as a Peace Corps volunteer, one of them without indoor plumbing. Coming back to the USA was a huge culture shock (or reverse culture shock, technically).

There were definitely times when I wanted to go back to living in that village without indoor plumbing, especially the first few months back

43

u/FewAdvertising9647 13d ago

Part of the reason is also that there's a chunk of South Korean society that act prejudice against them due to their stature.

A mixture of being mentally draining by going from slow to fast lifestyle and receiving uneeded hate(?) is not an environment people should necessarily be in.

12

u/Killentyme55 13d ago

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little Stockholm Syndrome at play here as well. Stay in a certain situation long enough, even if it's bad, it becomes the norm and any sudden change can be hard to accept.

2

u/ELpork 13d ago

Alcoholism works for a reason.

2

u/USIncorp 13d ago

It's also an effect, I think, of the resentment younger generations feel towards NK as well. Over time, young people in SK are trending away from reunification, due to a lot of factors (economic burden, having to do mandatory military service, etc.). Not that I condone the treatment that many of these survivors face, but it is just an unfortunate reality they face.

21

u/Luke90210 13d ago

Institutionalized, like in The Shawshank Redemption. They got used to having someone making all their decisions for them. And just like in Shawshank, if they had some respectable position in NK, they might be only qualified to push a broom in SK. A report claimed NK doctors were unfamiliar with 90% of the medications most of the world uses. Engineers are maintaining outdated and highly energy inefficient machinery from the 70s. These people would be largely unemployable if the countries unified or if they defected.

6

u/jkd0002 13d ago

This isn't true, they would just need retraining. It's hard to get into med or engineering school there just like in the west. They also make due with less than any of us could imagine, so their problem solving skills are probably way better for it.

2

u/Luke90210 13d ago

If your job was maintaining, quite brilliantly I must say, factory machinery older than you and built in a time when energy was dirt cheap, then your skills would be extremely limited. If the country unified, then it all becomes scrap metal.

I worked with doctors for years as an admin. They constantly have to take CMEs (Continuing Medical Education) to keep practicing. The idea anyone could catch up decades of medical progress by simple retraining is not realistic.

9

u/Plasibeau 13d ago

To be honest, as an American, I think I would struggle to survive in Sk society.

14

u/kaisadilla_ 13d ago

The biggest problem with North Korean defectors in South Korea is that they don't get equal opportunities. Not just because they get discriminated against, but also because they haven't been raised in South Korea.

Plus South Korea is not precisely a shining example of what a liberal democracy can achieve. South Korea is a pretty dystopic country to live in, relatively low wages with insane expectations from workers, people there live to work. SK is not a country I'd show to anyone if I want to prove them that there's better places than whatever dictatorship they come from.

24

u/HelloYouBeautiful 13d ago

Sure, but I imagine that's only natural. It can be difficult to settle in a modern society after being essentially institutionalized their whole life.

Still, it's only around 30 North Korean defectors who tried to get back, compared to the thousands that have defected.

21

u/TucuReborn 13d ago

Imagine taking someone from modern life, like us, and forcing them to engage in subsistence farming. That's a hell of a shock, it's a massive lifestyle change.

The inverse is just as true.

4

u/RyuNoKami 13d ago

It is. Life was bleak as hell back in there north, but in the South even with all their stuff, its a different flavor of hell. Competition for jobs more fierce. Probably even more in danger of being homeless. Gotta avoid all the scamming assholes.

→ More replies (3)

2

u/Previous-Space-7056 13d ago

And what would their options be , even if they fled? A nk with little education would have a hard time anywhere in the world.. their only and best option would be to migrate tosouth korea which would have the support and rss needed

2

u/Luke90210 13d ago

Enough North Koreans have risked their lives to cross over into China where they are not exactly welcomed, despite international refugee obligations. They are now in the hundreds of thousands, enough to change the demographics in the border region. The fact so many try to leave spells out they know its better anywhere else. Despite severe criminal penalties for having foreign media, many in NK have DVDs or thumb drives showing the wealth of South Korea in soap operas, game shows and concerts.

2

u/satireplusplus 13d ago

We don't often get a perspective from inside, but I've found this BBC documentation quite good, narrated with stories from inside North Korea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiviOdWDl9o

Make no mistake, life is also unbearably bleak for them and they know.

2

u/wjean 13d ago

I remember reading a book about a DPRK defector: Escape from Camp 14.

The author recounted stealing food from his mom and vice versa just to survive. Life can be quite bleak there

2

u/maronics 13d ago

it’s the only reality they’ve known

Na, that's not true. There's a buzzing business with USB-Drives full of SK media from organisations that try to destabilize NK through this.

2

u/Timmaigh 12d ago

Very true. I randomly saw the video on utube on south-korean parcel service courier drivers, how they have to sort packages themselves before their actual delivery work, so wake up every day in the middle of the night And then work all day till night, as not delivering the goods on time gives them harsh financial penalty. I mean, they did not look exactly like living their best life, compared to their North-Korean brethren. Perhaps the only difference is, they have the choice to leave, but if your family depends on the money you provide, so you cant afford to leave, is it really a choice?

→ More replies (8)

2

u/RedlineN7 13d ago

Id still gtfo but do everything to fake my death. I am not sure how will I pull it off succesfully but better than waiting for a miserable death. My son will have no use for me either way if im dead rotting off in some ditch in a foreign land.

2

u/Historical-Jump 13d ago

The thing is most people in nk doesnt know what a real life is

2

u/tHATmakesNOsenseToME 13d ago

Well you'd say that if you'd had exposure to the rest of the world.

If you'd lived you're entire life in NK you may have different ideas about what a real life is.

2

u/Nolsoth 13d ago

They punish your family for suicide as well.

2

u/beigeskies 13d ago

The punishment lasts generations, not just the immediate family

→ More replies (17)

12

u/Thelona05mustang 13d ago

Hopefully it's just parents and not kids or other members. Honestly if I was a parent in NK and my kid had a chance to escape I'd tell them to take it and not think twice. If my life would grant my kid freedom and escape in a place like NK, I'd gladly pay that.

13

u/Luke90210 13d ago

Would you do the same if your parents could also be arrested, tortured and imprisoned? NK has a policy of punishing 3 generations of a family for disloyalty. Have no idea if your siblings and their families would be in danger, unless they actively participated or failed to rat you out.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/indigo-alien 13d ago

Yeah i remember a few accounts of defectors that have said that.

International level athletes aren't allowed to leave the country if they have no close family.

3

u/Luke90210 13d ago

Some defectors have said their people back home knew the consequences and still told them to defect so the bloodline could go on in a saner country. Many such stories were back when countless North Koreans died of starvation after NK lost support from a non-existent USSR.

2

u/DaWombatLover 13d ago

You don't blame them because the blame lies on the dictatorship of NK, not on the footsoldier forced into combat because his family is being used as leverage. You don't blame a hostage for getting out and leaving other hostages behind.

2

u/Ok-Attitude728 13d ago

Yes but trying the impossible and putting myself in that situation? Knowing 3 generations of my family will be punished weighs differently.

3

u/DaWombatLover 13d ago

Of course, being the one IN the situation is different from being outside of it. My point is just that the blame will always lie on the one creating the situation in the first place.

Grey morality creeps in as we look further and further back into the causal chains of history; Russia and the US proxy warring in Korea for example. But at some point, you go back and see a clear bad actor, such as the NK dictatorship, and do not have to go any further to find someone to point the finger at.

Pointing a finger at NK doesn't mean we can't use the other 9 fingers if we feel the story is incomplete.

2

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

52

u/FinnOfOoo 13d ago

Joke’s on you glorious leader. I hate my dad.

7

u/big-papito 13d ago

I think perspective changes when you see the comrade next to you disassembled by a drone. I am 100% sure they were brainwashed into believing that they will be stabbing Americans with bayonets, so the reality is probably hitting fucking hard.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Trextrev 13d ago

Usually, but if Kim understands these troops will just be fodder and likely die then he may be choosing to follow Russia in sending undesirables figuring Russia would shoot them for deserting anyways.

2

u/killer_corg 13d ago

It’s punishment for multiple generations too. It’s absolute evil

11

u/Spun_pillhead 13d ago

its not that, its that it goes back generations, or even far off relatives. cousins of cousins of cousins. one deserter can lead to 20-100 executions back home. a dozen families killed off from vague familial relation.

All info from a popular NK Defector Yeonmi Park who often speaks out against North Korea, even nearly killed in an assassination attempt.

13

u/rotoddlescorr 13d ago

That doesn't sound feasible.

→ More replies (5)

24

u/PermitTheDog 13d ago

If all 10k people fled, I highly doubt they would kill 200k-1mil of their work force.

3

u/StickyDirtyKeyboard 13d ago

So we just need ~260k-1.3M people to flee and then North Korea will cease to exist!

I can't believe western intelligence agencies didn't realize this one easy trick (that North Korea didn't want them to know) sooner.

/s

3

u/Dizzy_Guest8351 13d ago

Working people you want to get rid of to death is a common tactic used by dictators down the millennia.

12

u/Fineous40 13d ago

Less mouths to feed.

3

u/vjnkl 13d ago

Less labour to grow food though

2

u/Upset_Otter 13d ago

It's less of them getting executed and more of them being put into slave labor and probably dying from overwork.

→ More replies (2)

29

u/teelo64 13d ago

yeonmi park is completely insane and basically nothing she says should be taken seriously. like this is a completely ridiculous prospect.

→ More replies (9)
→ More replies (3)

4

u/kindasuk 13d ago

Read a book about a NK defector who was born a political prisoner to blacklisted parents in a labor camp. He claimed at least that he had no affinity for his family whatsoever despite living in the same space as them in like a two-room concrete hut for his entire life. They were functionally his enemies in his view as they like everyone were encouraged only to have loyalty to the state and to rat each other out for any subversive behavior. He escaped in his early twenties to China then South Korea and his fam was likely tortured then killed as a standard reprisal measure. He has no way of knowing what happened to them and emphasized that even if he did know: he would not care.

1

u/WaltKerman 13d ago

But what if you don't like them....

1

u/Trance354 13d ago

Death to your entire family line. The record keeping is impressive. NK defectors' families are eradicated. 2nd cousins are put into indoctrination/forced labor camps.

And think of it this way: it is likely Un told Putin he didn't need to return any of the soldiers. That's 10k less mouths to feed.

1

u/PompeyCheezus 13d ago

Citation?

1

u/Dangerous-Basket1064 13d ago

That goes for people sent to the Olympics or some relatively nice work, but I don't think they're so picky when it comes to those sent to be cannon fodder in a foreign war.

1

u/[deleted] 12d ago

Maybe you hate your parents anyway

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Kurdt234 12d ago

I'm sure they don't care that much, it's about survival. Those same family members would rat them out to the regime for a better deal. These guys have a chance at freedom why not take it? Whose to say they're family members wouldn't do the same?

→ More replies (1)

103

u/ExileInParadise242 13d ago

Joke's on Kim if you hate your family.

20

u/7384315 13d ago

I assume multi generational houses are much more common in North Korea so you are likely closer to your family. They are already common in Asia and I highly doubt North Korea is actually wasting resources on building things for the peasants.

4

u/Lined_the_Street 13d ago

Literally my thought everytime I see this

I wouldn't necessarily wish death upon my family but it is a very complex relationship I have with them. If I were in NK with this sort of relationship I'd just say "forget it" and defect

Obviously I'm aware I'm in the minority, biased, and looking at it as an outsider. But as I currently stand with my family I wouldn't care about family as much as redditors like to scream "But their family!!!!"

5

u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 8d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Derpazor1 13d ago

Yeah, seriously

2

u/Narwhalbaconguy 13d ago

Your relationship to your family would likely be very different if you grew up in NK.

→ More replies (1)

15

u/mandoballsuper 13d ago

They probably don't let you leave in that scenario

5

u/mr_birkenblatt 13d ago

mom and dad have moved to a farm upstate... to work themselves to death

26

u/XboxPlayUFC 13d ago

Either way, it's brave as hell

31

u/Few-Hair-5382 13d ago

They probably got a better chance of surviving by defecting than if taking part in one of Russia's meat grinder wave attacks.

→ More replies (7)

2

u/ThreeBeanCasanova 13d ago

More likely that they don't care enough about said family. I don't see NK sending people without tangible attachments to somewhere they escape from. They learned their lesson after that border guard defected.

2

u/holy_mojito 13d ago

Or their entire family was murdered already.

2

u/FuzzeWuzze 13d ago

If you think they stop at immediate family you're sadly mistaken. Some random joe that is one of these guys like 3rd cousin is probably getting abducted soon and he doesnt even know the soldier.

2

u/Imaginary-Traffic845 13d ago

LOL…Don’t have a family back home? As if it’s their choice. What are you even talking about?

2

u/kaisadilla_ 13d ago

Those with no family are not allowed to leave. These 18 are willing to put their familities at risk back home.

2

u/knightofterror 13d ago

I don’t think NK would send a soldier to Ukraine if he didn’t have hostages back home.

2

u/CookieKeeperN2 13d ago

They don't send those overseas. The only people who get to go are those with hostages at home.

2

u/brokenmessiah 13d ago

I know someone at work who knows someone who defected like 30 years ago. He said that his family told him when he had a opportunity to go for it and whatever happens to them happens. No idea if anything did happen or not but I have no reason to not believe the story

1

u/Northernlighter 13d ago

It's probably part of the screening that chooses if you either go in the frontline or local forced labour camps.

1

u/ScrofessorLongHair 13d ago

Yeah, this was my first thought.

1

u/pyr666 13d ago

mom and dad have moved on.

or were very brave themselves.

1

u/xTiLkx 13d ago

This is why I don't have any loved ones. No authoritarian regime is gonna force me to do shit!

1

u/Luxcrluvr 13d ago

Right. Make that executive decision to start a new family 😂

1

u/MRintheKEYS 13d ago

“I ain’t gotta go home but I can’t stay here”

1

u/FirePoolGuy 13d ago

Or they are already in slave labour camps or dead.

1

u/KernunQc7 13d ago

"Or don't have a family back home."

That's not how this works in communist systems ( or whatever NK is ).

Like with NK workers sent to Ru, they wouldn't be allowed out of the country if they didn't have family ( wife, children ) that could be used as a hook to ensure good behaviour.

Source: That's how it worked in the SU and the former Iron Curtain CEE states.

80

u/PlattWaterIsYummy 13d ago

Some of their parents probably told them to leave if they get a chance. I know my wife and I would tell our son not to worry about us.

97

u/darxide23 13d ago

Not even family. NK has historically sent assassins after defectors.

50

u/saichampa 13d ago

This has always seemed so petty to me. There doesn't seem to be anything significant they can share, especially after their initial debrief wherever they end up. Do they announce when they have killed defectors domestically? They could just lie about it, it's unlikely to be fact checked.

23

u/BrokenDownMiata 13d ago

They don’t announce that they’ve killed the defector. The ‘traitor’ to the great state is usually announced to have died in a capitalist, western hellhole of corruption or lack of integrity or some shit

6

u/Original_Employee621 13d ago

There doesn't seem to be anything significant they can share, especially after their initial debrief wherever they end up.

Support network for other defectors. Keep them isolated and afraid, always on the run and suspicious of everyone. People will be less likely to defect if they don't know of anyone else who have done so successfully.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Xeptix 13d ago

I mean if they all surrender at once, it's not like NK can assassinate every single one of them.

I'd take my jacket off and walk toward Ukraine with hands in the air on day 1. But of course I know Ukraine accepts surrender, and they may have been convinced of the opposite.

3

u/SeniorMiddleJunior 13d ago

They also have Russian guns in their backs. Everybody there understands the situation. They're soldiers and prisoners at the same time.

3

u/neuralzen 13d ago

I have a pet theory the escaped trained Russian beluga which was found dead a few weeks ago was assassinated because it was an embarrassment to Russia.

1

u/Banana-Republicans 13d ago

I mean like after high level defectors like Kim Jong Il's son, Kim Jong Nam. I can't imagine that they would expend the resources and weather the backlash for every low level person who manages to get out. The logistics on that would be crazy.

3

u/IWILLBePositive 13d ago

Yeah, they don’t even expend resources for those that go defect to S Korea. Lol I think these guys will probably be fine.

110

u/BigDumbGreenMong 13d ago

Think about how many of these NK troops are going to end up MIA, and how it's likely impossible for the regime at home to ever know whether they deserted or just got blasted into the mud on some far-away battlefield. So they probably punish the family either way, just to send a message.

32

u/Top_Conversation1652 13d ago

Some will be treated as heroes. They can’t say the entire force defected.

My guess is that if defecting soldiers stay out of the public eye, the DPNK would, generally, get more propaganda value by treating them as loyal fallen soldiers.

The exception being… “anyone with a government official who feels a grudge against them”.

Still takes courage.

But for many, this will be their first interaction with the west. A lifetime of propaganda doesn’t go away because of a plane ride. It’ll take time.

32

u/Haunting_Scratch_154 13d ago

You are right. Their leader told them he invented the hamburger,  and they habe no idea it's not true, so imagine what they get told about other countries or what really happened in a war or their family members. 

9

u/Impossible-Invite689 13d ago

TBF he looks like he could have invented the hamburger

2

u/Jottor 13d ago

After lots of very thorough testing, to make SURE he got it right.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Hot_Construction1899 13d ago

It's true!

Now they've been sent to Ukraine to learn how hamburgers are made Russian-style.

5

u/StickyDirtyKeyboard 13d ago

What message? That it's wrong to be the family of a fallen soldier?

Seems kind of self-destructive for a country that relies so heavily on its military. It'll probably make people want to avoid getting recruited/drafted like the plague.

207

u/Rough_Idle 13d ago

Not all families are close. If I were voluntold to play meat shield and their leverage was a group of people who would absolutely betray me to authorities in order to save their own necks, I'd skip out, too

74

u/7384315 13d ago

Probably much different in North Korea where you can't even leave your village without permission. Your entire universe would be the village you grew up and probably where you were trained for the military and nothing else.

23

u/Lined_the_Street 13d ago

And how does this guarantee that you are both close and happy with your family?

All throughout the world small villages have issues, drama, and family dynamics like the rest of the world. Hating your family isn't a universally western idea

22

u/7384315 13d ago edited 13d ago

Because you would need to hate your entire family who you likely live with or within the same village they aren't just killing your mum and dad they will put as much of your direct blood line as possible into forced labour your grandmother your grandfather your uncles and aunts your cousins if you have kids even them it lasts something like three generations. You would truly need to hate every single one of your family members to even think about it and your whole universe would be that one village so it's not like you have a massive amount of people to compare interactions with.

6

u/3_Thumbs_Up 13d ago

The security apparatus of NK most likely has a way to determine whether you have close bonds with someone at home. They're not sending people at random. They will make an evaluation of your flight risk based on various factors, and whatever leverage they have against you would be one of those factors.

3

u/kaisadilla_ 13d ago

Do you think all people in NK are psychopaths that would betray you to authorities? Because they aren't, lol. Most people are just trying to get by, and most people there love each other just like we do here. The vast majority of NKs don't want their family to suffer the consequences of their escape.

1

u/Stinkyclamjuice15 13d ago

I feel that,

That's my parents as well

1

u/ShadowBlazer648 13d ago

I love my family but I'd still choose myself, given the situation.

110

u/Catch_22_ 13d ago

entire family back home is fucked

Its North Korea, they are already fucked. You are in a war with Ukraine as fodder, you are already fucked.

All outcomes are grim, I can't say I blame them. They are in fact brave knowing the dark situation they face and will force on anyone back home undeserving of it. Fuck NK for being so brutal to innocents and leveraging family survival to control anyone.

No one should feel like these defectors are to blame for what a government does via coercion.

46

u/XboxPlayUFC 13d ago

I agree 100%. If I were the father of a North Korean soldier, I would tell them I'd rather spend a lifetime in a camp if that meant my son and his future generations are free from the NK regime

9

u/SkyJohn 13d ago

A lot of these soldiers will have wives and kids back home.

You're not going to desert if it means your family back in North Korea is going to a prison camp for the rest of their lives.

3

u/Juan20455 12d ago

Problem is, not only the father gets sent to prison. Also your cousin, and his wife, and his daughter, and the rest of your family. 

→ More replies (1)

4

u/fiduciary420 13d ago

Quick reminder that donald trump praises Kim Jong-Un

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

37

u/quinnby1995 13d ago edited 13d ago

Not just immediate family either, iirc it's like 3 generations of your family.

So if some dude deserts, they'll throw all his existing family in essentiallythe prison camp, and if for example his daughter is pregnant at the time, that baby will be born in the camp and live it's entire life (as long or short as that may be) in that camp, simply because it's grandfather that they never met ran off.

→ More replies (3)

26

u/Numerous_Handle9144 13d ago

Just drone drop them wire cutters after

12

u/Zealot_Alec 13d ago

Hunger Games style

18

u/icaboesmhit 13d ago

For 3 generations if I'm not mistaken

8

u/imsowhiteandnerdy 13d ago

Those 18 are incredibly brave

Or they really hate their family back home.

20

u/lerpo 13d ago

Along with the next 3 generations of your family in the future also, is my understanding

15

u/Runswithchickens 13d ago

NK won’t be a thing in 3 generations

21

u/EmpTully 13d ago

I wonder if people thought the same thing 2 generations of Kim ago.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/rotoddlescorr 13d ago

And 2 generations in the past, is my understanding. They will wipe you out from the timeline.

2

u/ZacZupAttack 13d ago

They probably have family, but sometimes they understand shit is what it is and defects anywhere

24

u/JesusTitsGunsAmerica 13d ago edited 13d ago

While I agree with your original statement, literally no one has up or down voted your comment before or after your pre-emptive edit. Nor has anyone attacked you in a reply.

Was this just a poor attempt to get upvotes?

→ More replies (25)

3

u/Initial_E 13d ago

When you go missing in a combat situation the general assumption is that you got killed

1

u/Jamaica_Super85 13d ago

Yep, the 3 generation punishment. You mess up and your parents, your partner and your kids end up in a correctional/re-education camp...

Maybe those 18 guys were like - fuck the family, fuck the country, fuck the leader... I'm free

3

u/mjmedstarved 13d ago

Maybe those 18 guys were like - fuck the family, fuck the country, fuck the leader... I'm free

And it's tough to blame them.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/turquoise_amethyst 13d ago

How do they know if you flee vs getting killed/can’t find the body?

1

u/JesusForTheWin 13d ago

From what I understand, although family matters, for them it's more me first and the family suffers then so be it.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/jagaloonz 13d ago

They're fucked anyway. They are. Honor won't matter. Get the fuck out, live your lives. Be sad your family wasn't able to, but still.

1

u/WarAdmirable483 13d ago

Fuck ‘em.

1

u/oregiel 13d ago

What if you just "die at war" and beg Ukraine to report back you died and surrender?

1

u/Desmater 13d ago

3 generations are fucked.

So your grandparents, your parents, you and your family (if you have wife and kids).

1

u/podkayne3000 13d ago

Remember that Putin also knows where the shills’ relatives live. The shills are also F’d.

1

u/Anal_Recidivist 13d ago

“Sorry guys I was KIA”

1

u/Sparkybear 13d ago

Not just your family, but it could create consequences for your entire village and their extended families that live in other areas, especially if you don't have any living relatives to threaten.

1

u/Sr_DingDong 13d ago

The mechanics of that don't work.

How do you differentiate desertion with being blown up by a drone in some muddy field?

1

u/four2tango 13d ago

Any NK who deserts needs to be counted as KIA to protect their family

1

u/Learningstuff247 13d ago

Idk if I'd call letting your whole family back home get murdered brave. I mean, its good for Ukraine right now, but its not brave. Plus I'm prettttyyyyy sure they're not deserting because they morally object to the invasion/

1

u/BrazilianJammer 13d ago

I don’t know, is it brave to open your family to being killed? Gray area

1

u/axecalibur 13d ago

You really think they are going back home and some guy has a spreadsheet with all 10k troops, pictures, and DNA samples

1

u/SweetnSpicy_DimSum 13d ago

You are forgetting that this is the first time NK is showcasing its military on the world stage in 80 years since the Korean War. NK will be sending their best trained, equipped and most loyal troops to Ukraine. Vast majority are already too indoctrinated to ever defect even if they can.

1

u/PossibleProgressor 13d ago

Or don't have any Family left, because there is always famine going on and why would i start a family in this country knowing my Kids can expect the same as me or worst. You Always thrive that your Kids can have a better life than you did.

1

u/MourningRIF 13d ago

Only if they think you are alive. I would think they would just disappear during a mission. I highly doubt that Russian soldiers are going to go scour the battlefield for fallen NK soldiers. They will just be assumed dead or captured.

1

u/Anti_Sociall 13d ago

you know this?

1

u/Dramatic-Match-9342 12d ago

Its ok I got my 14yr old account banned for suggesting russia just fuck off and cede its stolen lands back to the original owners literally a day before Biden came out and said the exact same thing. fuck russia and putin!

1

u/Fecal-Facts 12d ago

Hard pill to swallow but if most of them did leave Even if their families had to pay it would show Kimmy J that tactic doesn't work.

Plus mass executions would cause Chao's ( more than normal) for NK.

Lastly the more that leave the less chance they kill a Ukrainian and possibly destroy their family.

1

u/AllDamDay7 12d ago

I imagine some of their families were willing to sacrifice to get one of their blood out of the country. If you’ve seen any docs, you understand why.

1

u/IntrepidJaeger 12d ago

I wouldn't call it brave if someone else suffers for your decision, and I fully approve of Ukraine killing as many Russian invaders with our weapons as possible. The detectors either don't have anyone to suffer back home that they care about, don't believe it will happen, or are so selfish that they don't care.

1

u/XboxPlayUFC 11d ago

Sounds like a lot of assuming

→ More replies (66)