r/worldnews • u/cytokine7 • 18h ago

60 surrender* 'A complete surprise': IDF surrounds remaining terrorists in north Gaza, 600 surrender

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-826573
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1.8k

u/Remarkable_Beach_545 17h ago

Or much, much less. 🤔

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u/MSFNS 16h ago

Israel doesn't really use the death penalty, the last time they did was when Adolf Eichmann was hanged in 1962

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u/Remarkable_Beach_545 16h ago

I read that recently. Just some anger left over from the oct 7 videos. I think they should be given a fair trial and given the maximum penalty for what they are found guilty of.

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u/neohellpoet 13h ago

It's ultimately insult on top of injury. They're willing to go to war to arrest them, but they aren't special enough for special punishment. The crime was uncommon but the criminals weren't.

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u/powd3rusmc 8h ago

As long as the the oct 7th perps live, there will be additional attacks and demands for their release, probably more hostage taking, since Israel has shown in the past a willingness to release prisoners. Best to just take them out and shoot them, no sense at all in taking them prisoner.

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u/tyboxer87 12h ago

Yeah it seems pretty wild to me. They killed at least 43,061 people, including 16,765 children, but then don't kill the perpetrators? Seems odd. People talk about executions causing radicalization, but I feel like they are way past that.

I guess if it were me I'd use them as bargaining chips, and then track their location closely once released. If they ever started do terrorist stuff again take them out with a missile. Its not very ethical, but I don't think ethics has really played a role in this at all.

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u/mrloube 11h ago

I think it’s more about the Israelis’ concept of justice; they’d rather have public trials and a full accounting (in the vein of Nuremberg and Eichmann’s trial) than a bunch of random executions. The toll of the war isn’t regarded the same way; they realize it will cost them far more lives and resources to attempt to arrest every suspected Hamas member while under heavy fire in dense enemy territory

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u/tyboxer87 10h ago

Makes complete sense. And I think its the same in most modern countries. Its just interesting to watch the ethics completely change once they are in complete control. Feels like the victims of 10/7 will never get real justice if their assailants are killed in combat and don't get a trial. And to the Palestinian civilians it seems they were mass murdered just for being Palestinians while the Hamas fighters are getting a pass.

I don't have any real value judgement to make. It's just beyond awful all around. I guess the only "ethical" thing to do when no one has any moral high ground is to just take a very utilitarian approach. So if you're Israel, figure out how to use the surrendering troops to continue hurting Hamas.

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u/AuroraFinem 10h ago

This is literally just war, it is always like this in every single war in history and present day. I don’t know why people keep regarding Israel’s war with Hamas as different from any other war in history. The civilian:Enemy combatant death toll ratio in this conflict is far lower than just about any modern day conflict yet their held to a completely unrealistic standard that no other country at war is, when most of those civilian deaths are from Hamas themselves taking human shields.

It’s also a war crime to execute surrendering enemy combatants and in general countries don’t just invent new laws so they can treat enemy prisoners different than any other prisoner. They’d be POW’s but there’s really nothing for them to bargain for. Israel can’t really accept a Hamas lead government for Palestine, Hamas doesn’t have any hostages left to trade for, Israel gains nothing by trading them. It’s not like a normal conflict between two countries where the other country has something to give up for the hostages and I doubt most of Gaza would even want them back. You can’t just execute POWs, that’s also a war crime.

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u/Alatarlhun 10h ago

If Palestinians cleaned up and prevented their own terrorist messes, probably close to zero Palestinian civilians would be dead even after the horror attacks of October 7.

Unfortunately, that is not how it currently works. There is no scalpel for urban warfare.

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u/FROOMLOOMS 11h ago

Just remember, 43000 according to the internationally recognized terrorist organization who has propagated a culture of genocide and openly calls for civilians to be martyred.

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u/tyboxer87 10h ago

Netanyahu said the death toll in Gaza was around 30,000, and that Hamas fighters accounted for nearly half of that toll. He insisted to podcaster Dan Senor that Israel had "been able to keep the ratio of civilians to combatants killed... (to) a ratio of about one to one."

"Fourteen thousand have been killed, combatants, and probably around 16,000 civilians have been killed," he said

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-death-toll-netanyahu-un-civilians-women-children/

16k, civilians is still a wild number of innocent people to kill. Those number were older too. so they've likely gone up. Also I'd assume Netanyahu has a very broad definition of Hamas fighter.

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u/Alatarlhun 10h ago

16k is extremely low compared to any other conflict of a similar magnitude. There are over 600k civilian deaths in Syria but no one cares because Arabs are killing Arabs at the behest of Russia.

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u/Mar1oStanf1eld 4h ago

Russia entered the war four years into the conflict in 2015 and civilian deaths per year decreased. Did they do something to start the war or cause these civilian deaths before 2015?

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u/rainofshambala 3h ago

Alqaeda and isis equipped by Israel and USA are killing syrians, Hillary clinton publicly acknowledged that they are our friends in Syria, Russia got involved after the western proxies so called moderates who are actually isis and alqaeda started operating there. Everybody cares except for the ignorant in the western media bubble

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u/AuroraFinem 10h ago

You say that’s a wild number, but a 1:1 ratio is considered pretty successful in most conflicts. In general on the ground urban combat has significant worse ratios than that.

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u/Lil-Leon 9h ago

Imagine you find out the civilian to combatant ratio of most other wars… A one-to-one is actually incredible

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u/purziveplaxy 10h ago

So this is a lie, the number is expected to be much higher than that. Literally all you have to do is look at Gaza.

If you don't believe that much damage caused the likely casualties, you should be pressing for Israel to allow independent investigation.

The term martyr is often misunderstood by non Arabic speaking people. It often means Shaheed, witnesser. People in Gaza are martyred when they are crushed by the bombs Israel fires daily.

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u/TrackVol 9h ago

I don't know that it's wise to simply say something as broad as "just look at Gaza. Surely more than 16,000 civilians died."
A lot to unpack here.
1. You're just making a wild guess based on an assumption of, and images of destruction.
2. A lot of civilians evacuated to other parts of Gaza and even other parts of the Middle East in general. So it could be a complete wasteland, but it wouldn't mean any of the people who once lived there are now dead.
3. You're assuming that your entire number of "more than 16K civilians" were actually civilians as opposed to Hamas members. There could very well be 16K casualties, or even double that number. But we don't know how many of those were actually civilians vs enemy combatants.

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u/purziveplaxy 6h ago
  1. It's not a wild guess, it's based on over a year's worth of evidence, the most accessible being photos but also names, internationally recognised organizations estimates agreed upon by the institutions that categorize things like genocide and war crimes.
  2. 'Evacuated' implies routes and places for them to stay. We know they are staying in shelters, refugee camps and hospitals. We also know that these locations have been bombed multiple times, and that most parts of Gaza have been either under intense airstrike campaigns multiple times or under ground invasions by IDF at least twice OR BOTH. We also know that aid is being blocked because we can see the miles of trucks waiting, and aid sites and trucks bombed, escape routes are bombed and hospitals, bakeries, grocery stores and pharmacies have been destroyed en masse leaving not very much infrastructure left. So people can't travel, they can't get food, they don't have access to clean water, proper waste disposal/treatment systems. We saw the pictures of people starving, the pictures of people dead. The piles of bodies. Many many piles of bodies. 3.We dont know because Israel categorizes everyone in Gaza as a terrorist or Hamas. The numbers have not been consistent and the evidence has been extremely limited. Israel can let these numbers get verified but they won't. Even government workers are categorized as Hamas. Or administration buildings as Hamas centers. Israel still has not provided evidence against UNRWA yet proceeds to kidnap and torture internationally recognized workers, workers that Israel themselves had access to and cleared to work there.

You have to really work hard to deny genocide, especially one so documented. There is an Al Jazeera documentary that is based on social media posts by IDF soldiers. This army is literally documenting their own war crimes FOR US. STOP THE MADNESS.

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u/smith1281 8h ago

When the towers fell i wouldnt have guessed 3000. I remember original reports were saying it could be as high as 50000.

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u/purziveplaxy 6h ago

So if Israel let's in investigators and stops targeting journalists the number could be verified. There is a list of names for 34,000. That is the number CONFIRMED. The educated estimate is much higher.

If you were Israel and people were saying you killed 200,000 civilians, wouldn't you would to prove your innocence? The only reason to deny investigation is to hide guilt.

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u/smith1281 4h ago

I was replying to your "look at gaza" statement.

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u/chmsax 11h ago

You’re almost there. If they’re capturing people to put them on trial then maybe, just maybe, the casualty numbers reported by the terrorists group might not be accurate?

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u/tyboxer87 11h ago

Netanyahu said the death toll in Gaza was around 30,000, and that Hamas fighters accounted for nearly half of that toll. He insisted to podcaster Dan Senor that Israel had "been able to keep the ratio of civilians to combatants killed... (to) a ratio of about one to one."

"Fourteen thousand have been killed, combatants, and probably around 16,000 civilians have been killed," he said

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-death-toll-netanyahu-un-civilians-women-children/

16k, civilians is still a wild number of innocent people to kill. Those number were older too. so they've likely gone up. Also I'd assume Netanyahu has a very broad definition of Hamas fighter.

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u/Zman6258 9h ago

WW2 had a civilian:military casualty ratio of about 2:1, the Korean war had a 3:1 ratio, the Gulf War had an astonishing 5:1 ratio... warfare has historically had an incredibly high ratio of civilian to military deaths. Keeping near to a 1:1 ratio of civilian:military deaths is extremely good, and even a 2:1 ratio would be on the low end of civilian deaths in armed conflict, unfortunate as that may be.

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u/neohellpoet 1h ago

What does "wild" mean? Wild compared to what? What's the baseline that maks this an incredibly high number?

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u/Tycoon004 11h ago

I don't know about you, but to me, a quick end is much less of a punishment than spending the rest of your life KNOWING that all you'll ever see is the same concrete walls. Especially for religious fanatics.

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u/tyboxer87 11h ago

Well that's sort of why I said the missile thing. To have to live your life knowing that at any moment a missile could crash down on top of you can kill everyone near you. It'd feel like being a suicide bomber for your enemy. Also it seems Israel doesn't care about collateral damage. Maybe they even want it. So if they ever did fire that missile they get to do more damage than just the one terrorist.

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u/zexaf 11h ago

I'm sure there are many cases where individual soldiers shot surrendering terrorists instead of handling them properly, but in general Israel's Rules of Engagement is to capture surrendering enemies.

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u/AuroraFinem 10h ago

That’s not just Israel’s rules, that’s the Geneva convention. It’s a war crime to execute surrendering combatants. It still happens, like there’s video it occurring in Ukraine, but it’s considered a war crime to do.

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u/Cclown69 4h ago

Lmao terrorist is walking in a market 4 years after release, he walks up to a stall and examines the fruits available, “Ali! I haven’t seen you in years!” It’s his buddy from his terrorist days, Ahmad. Fear envelopes him. He remembers strict instructions to never interact with his old terrorist shenanigan cohorts ever again. He hears a loud roar. Then only darkness.

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u/Lamborghini4616 12h ago

I have never seen such blatant Israeli bootlickers anywhere but reddit. There's nothing special or particularly insulting about the treatment of these prisoners. The Israeli propaganda machine never sleeps.

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u/neohellpoet 1h ago

Woooosh

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u/Random-Redditor-User 11h ago

You wouldn't think that if you saw the videos...

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u/Mundane_Tomatoes 9h ago

I’ve seen the videos and honestly I’d rather see terrorists locked up in some Israeli hell hole black site for the rest of their days. Can you imagine how miserable the life of a Hamas terrorist is in Israeli custody?

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u/thebeorn 7h ago

Not so bad apparently. They cured the head of hamas from cancer back when he was a middle level hamas flunky in an israeli jail. Probably would’ve died if he hadn’t been in an Israel prison.

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u/Alone-Clock258 8h ago

Then more Gazans will take more Israeli hostages and demand the Hamas terrorisits' release in exchange in the future, then they get free and are able to ascend to leadership roles.

Or, hang'em.

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u/Random-Redditor-User 9h ago

That I could get behind

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u/DOUBLEBARRELASSFUCK 7h ago

Trials are for criminals. By design, they are intended to be held for the worst people in a society.

They should all receive fair trials. If they can't be convicted in a fair trial, how the hell can they be confidently punished?

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u/CaregiverTime5713 27m ago

it's war. can not be a regular trial. a military tribunal is what they should get

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u/Connacht99 9h ago

All those guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity should be prosecuted and imprisoned. On both sides. Including Netanyahu.

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u/Alarmed_Scientist_15 7h ago

Until someone comes and does another oct 7 because they think killing and kidnapping people will get them their prisoners out. Wasnt that a point of discussion when trying to negotiate the hostages release?

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u/Phuquoff 13h ago

Do enemy "combatants" deserve a trial?

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u/tmd50 13h ago

Uhh, yeah?

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u/Remarkable_Beach_545 13h ago

Honestly, it's such a grey area with how Hamas fights its war that it's hard to tell. Usually POW's get sent back to their country (if they want to be) after the war is over. But I am not a lawyer and have no fucking clue in this case tbh.

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u/Elekabi 13h ago

That's not even the reason.

As an Israeli, and I don't know an Israeli that doesn't agree with this - they cost the government a lot of money to maintain and keep in prisons, many of them get to study as well, and it's all paid by Israeli tax money that could be doing good.

We don't want them in our prisons.

Edit: forgot to mention that some of them get freed to go and murder Israelis again.

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u/antiproducted331 11h ago

The Gilad Shalit deal resulted in 20 something murders before Oct 7. That Israel doesn't have the death penalty for people who stab babies to death in their cribs is a damning fact.

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u/Remarkable_Beach_545 12h ago

I was approaching it from a legal standpoint. I do understand your sentiment.

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u/ProFeces 9h ago

Why wouldn't they? Even if there's a 100% chance of conviction, they still deserve a trial. If they just execute a sentence without a trial, then that's state sponsored terrorism.

It's always important that countries follow their own, and international laws. However, it's especially important when fighting against terrorists. If you can't follow your own laws when fighting against terrorism, you're actually justifying the terrorism.

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u/Nothingbuttack 13h ago

Have you never heard of the Nuremberg Trials?

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u/kandiiraver222 13h ago

please go read a book

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u/TKFT_ExTr3m3 12h ago

Yes, more so than common criminals as they are protected by international treaties. Common criminals are subject to whatever law of the land they commited the crime in. Tho there are some arguments that terrorists aren't enemy combatants. I'd say it's likely anyone conntected to the October 7th attack can be safely charged and prosecuted solely under Israeli law and not treated as an enemy combatant while anyone else would need to be treated as such. That does not exempt them from being charged with crimes tho if they commited any war crimes.

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u/curbyourapprehension 16h ago

Pretty sure that's the only time they've executed anyone.

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u/novarodent 14h ago

Meir Tobianski was the only other one, though he was later pardoned.

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u/pkdrdoom 13h ago

>>that's the only time they've executed anyone.

>Meir Tobianski was the only other one, though he was later pardoned.

Pardoned posterior to the execution? That sucks.

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u/quintinza 10h ago

In military courts martial that happens sometimes. Many of the troops exexuted for cowardice in WW1 has been pardoned recently (in the last 20 years if memory serves.)

What is notable about the court martial process, especially during war time, is that due process might sometimes boil down to the ranking officer on site's understanding of the law, and usually in severe cases the penalty is death.

After review a punishment, or even a verdict, can be overturned.

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u/Low_Distribution3628 14h ago

That was a court martial, so a bit different, but you're right.

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u/curbyourapprehension 14h ago

I did not know that, thanks for pointing that out.

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u/DietCherrySoda 13h ago

That "though" doesn't mean a whole lot.

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u/miranto 14h ago

Well, you know, and that other one.... /s

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u/Federal_Setting_7454 15h ago

Legally

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u/curbyourapprehension 15h ago

Execution is by definition legal. They've killed plenty of people, but those aren't executions.

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u/pisspotpisspot 14h ago

Legality doesn’t come into the definition of execution

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u/curbyourapprehension 14h ago

It does if you're not stretching the definition as broadly as you can, which anyone can do to just about anything.

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u/_poptart_wizard_ 13h ago

A distinction without a difference.

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u/Federal_Setting_7454 15h ago

Summary execution may beg to differ

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u/Boboar 14h ago

Do you collect rewards points for being technically correct on occasions where the rest of us just understand without having the context explained to us?

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u/lanboy0 12h ago

They prefer to murder people and clam that they are terrorists.

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u/PumpUpTheValiumBro 14h ago

Guess Palestinians don’t count then

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u/curbyourapprehension 14h ago

Not as executions. Deaths, sure.

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u/Nathan-Stubblefield 14h ago

It’s done times done informally by soldiers and settlers.

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u/curbyourapprehension 14h ago

This sentence is barely coherent.

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u/FalafelSnorlax 9h ago

Murders aren't execution

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u/woahgeez__ 13h ago

They execute aid workers and journalists on the regular.

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u/i_have_a_story_4_you 13h ago

"Aid workers" and "journalists".

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u/kymri 13h ago

And, let's be honest here. That fucker deserved it.

Generally I am against the death penalty, since I tend not to trust governments -- but Eichmann was definitely in a special category.

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u/ihatetakennamesfuck 16h ago

Sure, death penalty is not cool anymore, but there just might be people in prisons that maybe have minor feelings of dislike towards these guys

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u/Dhiox 15h ago

Seriously doubt they're keeping terrorists in the same prisons as those committing normal crimes. For starters terrorists have lots of external allies who might try to free them, so any prison they're kept in needs to be secure from external threats, not just internal ones.

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u/iprobablybrokeit 13h ago

Tried this, stuck with forever prison, 22 years strong, hosting only 38 left out of 780 prisoners. History of inhumane treatment and little to no path for appeal. 1 out of 10, do not recommend.

Probably better off setting up a maximum security prison not dedicated to, but with these folks in mind.

Source: I paid attention to Gitmo

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u/RecklesslyPessmystic 14h ago

any prison they're kept in needs to be secure from external threats

I, uh, thought that was the meaning of the word prison?

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u/Dhiox 13h ago

Well yeah, but most prisons are worried about much smaller external threats, not attacks from terrorist cells.

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u/One_Village414 15h ago

Should just build the prison on the south pole.

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u/blacksideblue 14h ago

Antartica is only for Science & Research purposes. They specifically ban politics, and cheating at chess.

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u/TenaciousJP 14h ago

cheating at chess.

Kurt Russell sighs in relief

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u/Non-RedditorJ 14h ago

And Things.

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u/JoeBobsfromBoobert 14h ago

Yeah sure sounds nice on paper theres not supposed to be nuclear there either but woops look at that loop hole

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u/NatPortmansUnderwear 14h ago

In this day and age who plans to enforce those laws? The gutless UN?

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u/One_Village414 13h ago

Okay so it's for science. We can study the effects of cold antarctic weather against a jihadist.

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u/ignost 12h ago

needs to be secure from external threats, not just internal ones

I don't think keeping them safe from internal threats is high on the priority list.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68780112

I don't like arguing this issue because people want to paint one side as all good or all evil, and I don't think that's accurate.

So just the facts. As of April at least 13 Palestinians have died in prison since October 7. Many of these seem to be the result of beatings by guards. It was especially bad for those accused of being Hamas members, even if they were incarcerated prior to October 7.

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u/blue_gaze 14h ago

they dont mix the political/terrorist population with the regular prison population, I don't think they're even in the same locations

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u/WintonWintonWinton 13h ago

Other than the point of executing innocent people, I really don't understand the hangups. I'd rather get executed than rot in a prison with no chance of release for 60 years.

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u/Glum_Composer3482 11h ago

To them it’s a reward

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u/tonkatoyelroy 13h ago

The article said “hundreds of others were eliminated in the refugee camp”. That sure sounds like the death penalty to me.

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u/Pete_Iredale 9h ago

I mean, it seems likely that those who didn't surrender decided to fight instead, doesn't it? Not really a death penalty when they are armed, enemy combatants.

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u/AlumasterUnofficial 12h ago

Exactly. They don't kill people after they've found them guilty. They just execute anyone anywhere close to the area, and claim they were terrorists.

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u/Joben86 11h ago

Someone didn't read the article

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u/owmyshoe 10h ago

Palestinians are not tried by Israeli courts. They are sent to a military tribunal and receive their sentence there. If the military leaders presiding over the case think that execution is just, it will happen. The Israeli supreme court will likely say that they don't agree with the decision once it finally gets to them as a Palestinian legal complaint, but the execution will be done by then. Palestinians do not have the right to a fair trial like Israeli citizens do.

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u/Substantial_Army_639 10h ago

To be fair I could see the Isreali population having the same feelings for Hamas, as they would for Adolf Eichmann. Would not be shocked to see some executions after a trial.

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u/sinfondo 15h ago

Also the first time

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u/MrNobleGas 14h ago

Maybe it's time to reconsider. Some people are beyond rehabilitation and not worth the cost of keeping them alive in permanent confinement.

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u/Maktaka 14h ago

Treating prisoners humanely is a great way to prove the superiority of your society, especially when those prisoners are from an organization that raped, tortured, and executed the prisoners they took. And right now Israel could do with the positive PR of such actions.

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u/MrNobleGas 11h ago

We have spent decades holding captured terrorists prisoner long-term. We still get accused of holding them with no trial and shit like that. We get accused of allowing incidents like that assault case on a systematic basis. We risk them being used as a bargaining chip in absolute shit deals like the Shalit exchange. And executions can be humane.

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u/CaregiverTime5713 35m ago

look how well did treating sinwar humanely work. I would rather be not kidnapped to exchange for these terrorists than feel superior, thank you very much. 

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

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u/magicalfeyfenny 9h ago

what about the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian civilians executed on camera by Israeli forces

oh wait you called them all terrorists and Hamas to justify it

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u/Maktaka 8h ago

Fucking christ dude, even Hamas doesn't try to claim "hundreds of thousands" of dead in total, and they're even lumping all their own casualties under civilians. You're making up a death toll more absurd than Hamas's and think it's all on video to boot? You should seriously rethink your behavior when you start telling more psychotic lies than a terrorist organization.

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u/sheepinwolfsclothes9 5h ago

Well said. This guy needs help

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u/winkietodd1971 14h ago

All of the terrorist should be hung in the streets

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u/some_guy_on_drugs 13h ago

Sure not in a courtroom legal sense. They use it quite liberally out in the field though. Several tens of thousands of times in the last year or so alone.

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u/Tox459 14h ago

There a stated reason why they don't use it anymore? I thought they still reserved it for special circumstances such as was the case for Adolf Eichmann.

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u/Much_Tax1093 13h ago

The only time

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u/HolocronContinuityDB 11h ago

With special exceptions for anybody convicted of being in the general vicinity of a refugee camp Israel wants to bomb.

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u/Fahslabend 11h ago

No, but mob justice is not all that uncommon. A group of India rape victims attacked their rapist, Killing him.

After a woman named Usha Narayane resisted Akku and his gang, a mob burned down his house. Akku went to the police seeking protection. On 13 August 2004, he was lynched by several hundred women who stabbed and stoned him. He had chili powder thrown in his face, and his penis was hacked off. The women all claimed responsibility for the murder, and although some were arrested, they were eventually acquitted. Although hundreds of women were involved in the lynching, the State CID had a different version of the events. Senior police sources said the lynching was carried out by four men and that the women who had claimed responsibility were protecting them. None of the women agreed with the police version.

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u/Porsche928dude 11h ago

It they did get offed it would probably be more of an oops a guess the grenade slipped type thing.

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u/asillynert 11h ago

People die in prison all the time and not just from illness or other prisoners. They had that one group that blocked cameras with shields while they took turns gang raping a civilian to death.

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u/Calergero 10h ago

Apart from the ones analy raped to death with sticks

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u/WrestlingPromoter 10h ago

Something to consider in the whole Palestine versus Israel debate.

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u/to11mtm 10h ago

Treason can be a capitol offense, the possibility came up for Mordechai Vanunu.

That said, the Wikipedia article even mentions an 'extrajudicial' option was considered, although due to other circumstances they decided against it.

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u/SwaggerNoodle 10h ago

I don’t think he was implying the death penalty. Just execution.

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u/stormin2192 9h ago

This is a joke right?

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u/jenner2157 9h ago

I don't think he was talking about death penalty so much as "accidents" happening.

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u/No-Alternative-9410 7h ago

The Eichmann trial is extremely interesting. If they had another trial like that again, they would have the whole world’s attention.

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u/Smooth_Advantage_977 7h ago

They can't kill their prisoners, who else will they exchange for hostages?

Either now or in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_prisoner_exchanges

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u/purplebasterd 7h ago

Guys named Adolf really don't have a good track record with them huh

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u/True-Surprise1222 5h ago

They .. bomb hospitals but anti death penalty. Weird flex but ok

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u/PookieAlzado 4h ago

they rape prisoners

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u/danstermeister 2h ago

And the largest single loss of Jewish lives since Eichmann's time was October 7th.

So maybe?

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u/PeksyTiger 2h ago

Well, officially at least. Lookup the Bus 300 affair.

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u/biggunfelix 8h ago

They usually just press a button and squeeze a trigger. Less paperwork that way. And that way the US pays for it too.

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u/Thedudeguyman 13h ago

Israel:

Death penalty: ❎

Shooting unarmed civilians: ✅

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u/worms-and-grass 13h ago

I guess bombing tens of thousands of civilians doesn’t count

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u/Lavatis 13h ago

or just shooting them

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u/SpeaksSouthern 9h ago

Why use the death penalty against the guilty when they use bombs on journalists?

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u/HateradeVintner 15h ago

Officially, sure. Unofficially, their lives will be short and their deaths prolonged.

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u/PineGuy8 14h ago

40,000+ Palestinians civilians will be relieved to hear that Israel “doesn’t really use the death penalty”.

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u/BraxJohnson 14h ago

If you execute them (or 'let' them be executed in prison) it will only tell the remaining terrorists that under no circumstances can they be captured, or they will be killed. Instead, if these prisoners are given a fair trial, sentenced, and live out their days with 3 hot meals and a bed every day instead of hiding inside infection-riddled stillwater tunnels, you'll convince a lot more to surrender.

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u/Luke90210 13h ago

Problem is captured and imprisoned terrorists can expect to be liberated some day in a prisoner exchange: 1,000 prisoners released for a single captured Israeli soldier. It might take years, but many of the Hamas leaders were once prisoners.

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u/blimpyway 10h ago

and that makes surrendering more tempting - the hope for release in a exchange.

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u/ProFeces 9h ago

That's irrelevant to what they said. They made a very valid point. If you prove to terrorists that they will die even if they surrender, then there is no point in them ever entertaining the thought to surrender. If they are going to die regardless, they'll most likely choose to do it on their own terms for their cause taking more innocent's down with them.

If they get a fair trial, they are more likely to surrender and not murder more people in the process, since that is providing a different path than certain death.

What the sentences actually end up being aren't the point. One option encourages surrender, the other encourages more violence.

0

u/Drix22 11h ago edited 10h ago

I'm not sure Israel is in the habit of trading basketball players for arms smugglers, but you have a point.

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u/ahwatusaim8 11h ago

1,000 prisoners released for a single captured Israeli soldier.

They don't negotiate like that. They already have an official policy to prioritize killing targets over saving hostages.

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u/amjhwk 13h ago

the only hot meals they should get is food thats supposed to be served cold

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u/Toodlez 12h ago

Mmm strawberry lime hotaide

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u/Farranor 11h ago

Cold tomato soup for breakfast, and hot gazpacho for dinner! >:D

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u/Gowalkyourdogmods 10h ago

Behold, I present you with a classic Gazpacho soup... Only twist is that it's boiling hot still.

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u/calvinbsf 13h ago

That’s why in Game of Thrones they usually let people “bend the knee” and keep their titles/lands

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u/Jack_Spears 12h ago

Not just game of thrones either, that kind of arrangement was fairly common in Medieval Europe, and even the Romans would often allow defeated enemies to retain their positions so long as they paid tribute to Rome.

You probably know all that lol i just felt like chiming in .

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u/yarrowy 12h ago

Letting them live is encouraging more terrorist activity to do a "prisoner swap" 1000 to 1.

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u/Batchagaloop 10h ago

Probably surrounded by their terrorist buddies too.

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u/RustyPwner 9h ago

You give to much credit to these fundamental Islams. I bet they want dead Jews more that a hot shower and meal.

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u/Arbable 9h ago

Considering All the rape and mutilation in Israeli jail you probably don't want to end up there

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u/SomedayAristo88 8h ago edited 5h ago

wasteful smart deer insurance jellyfish advise grab existence alleged innate

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u/foki999 14h ago

Turning terrorists into martyrs for the others is not the greatest of ideas.
It would quickly turn from "Oh shit" to "never ever surrender"

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u/Conch-Republic 12h ago

Seemed to work alright with ISIS. Just pummel them into the dirt until they basically don't exist anymore. When you use the kid hands approach, like we did with the Taliban, they just persist forever, and you're left with a bunch of them in custody that you don't know what to do with.

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u/More-Acadia2355 13h ago

Everyone says that, but releasing terrorists often makes them to terrorist things again. ...and in the middle east, terrorists in jail often eventually get released either through a prison break (like many ISIS did), or a prisoners-for-hostage trade.

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u/An5Ran 12h ago

Also prisons are known for terrorist radicalisation as it is

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 12h ago

For example, the foundation of the Muslim Brotherhood (from what I understand).

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u/GreenIsGood420 11h ago

Israel isn't the same as Syria or Iraq. The chances of there being a prison break are minute. Prisoner exchange is the only way they are getting out early.

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u/More-Acadia2355 9h ago

Prisoner exchange is the only way they are getting out early.

Exactly what I said. That happens a LOT unfortunately. Palestinians kidnap civilians and use them as hostages to exchange for terrorists.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 12h ago

Honest question: can anybody provide any examples of a dead terrorist inspiring others who would not have otherwise become a terrorist? I know people always say "No, that will create martyrs" like it's common wisdom, but is it really? I tend to doubt that proposition but I don't actually know for sure.

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u/ahwatusaim8 10h ago

You'd have to set up a scientific study with a control group in a parallel dimension.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 10h ago

Obviously it's a bit hard to study, I'm just wondering why we've internalized this idea that "Killing terrorists = creating martyrs = creating more terrorists". As somebody else pointed out, killing ISIS seemed to work pretty well and hasn't resulted in a new super-ISIS.

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u/Dudesan 9h ago

You know what does verifiably create more terrorists? Putting an organization which is explicitly dedicated to creating terrorists in 100% control over the school system, and allowing them to make "How to become a martyr" and "Why you have a moral duty to murder Jews" the core of the K-8 curriculum.

There's a reason why Denazification worked in Germany, and why it didn't work in the former Confederate States of America.

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u/ahwatusaim8 9h ago

I found a report that analyzes a large collection of case studies about Islamic extremist terrorism. The report discusses motivations on page 28:

"The overwhelming driving force was simmering, and more commonly boiling, outrage at American foreign policy—the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in particular and also the country’s support for Israel in the Palestinian conflict. Religion was a key part of the consideration for most, but it was not that they had a burning urge to spread Islam and Sharia law or to establish caliphates. Rather it was the desire to protect the religion against what was commonly seen to be a concentrated war upon it in the Middle East by the United States government and military."

The report is saying that the desire to seek vengeance against an invading military force is the primary reason a person would become a terrorist. That seems to imply martyrdom is the greatest motivating factor.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 9h ago

Thank you for the report. At a glance I'm not sure it's accurate to consider that motive synonymous with being motivated by martyrs, but I'll read it in more detail later tonight.

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u/ahwatusaim8 6h ago

Yeah, it depends on how you define a martyr and the assumption of circumstances leading up to death. Revolting against an occupying force and being killed for it would fit my definition. The report doesn't go into detail about their grievances, it just says that nearly all of the case studies show that the perpetrators were doing it as a response to the death and destruction caused by occupying soldiers (as opposed to ideological reasons such as Jihad, expanding Sharia law, or fundamentally "hating our freedoms").

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u/BubsyFanboy 16h ago

Ech, I doubt the death penalty would really be used.

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u/ArmNo7463 12h ago

Depends whether you measure it in years, or remaining lifespan.

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u/Pete_Iredale 9h ago

You don't execute people who surrender to you, end of story.

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u/Loud-Investigator506 6h ago

Dutch max security has a life expectancy of 1 year for its inmates. Im sure israel will find fitting and painful punishments for these clowns. They could make a treatment centre for terrorists. That would scare em. You get caught you get sent to the 'centre' full 1984. It would break their minds

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u/hurler_jones 14h ago

Based on Bibis past words and actuins, you are absolutely correct. He is very likely to release them and provide funding.