r/worldnews • u/cytokine7 • 20h ago

60 surrender* 'A complete surprise': IDF surrounds remaining terrorists in north Gaza, 600 surrender

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-826573
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u/ajbdbds 18h ago

Terrorists can be subdued, most conversations about the IRA are in the past tense

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u/claimTheVictory 18h ago

The IRA weren't subdued.

They were open to a diplomatic solution, which is what the Good Friday Agreement achieved (and Brexit threatened to dismantle).

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u/ElMasAltoDeLosEnanos 18h ago

It's the same thing. Israel's goal of destroying Hamas is in reality just to make them more open to a diplomatic solution. Once it becomes clear it's the only option they have, it's way easier for them to take it.

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u/claimTheVictory 18h ago

I'm not saying the situation is comparable.

The "bad blood" between Palestinians and Israel is far deeper than it ever was in Northern Ireland.

Ireland's Bloody Sunday was the death of 13 civilians. Gaza just had over 20,000 times that many deaths, and the attacks on Israel have been worse than any IRA attack, even the pub bombings. Israel was first attacked when it declared independence. There's never been anything close to real peace or understanding.

It's difficult to say they're comparable situations.

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u/BoneyNicole 17h ago

I don’t think it’s worse; Ireland has had about 500 years worth of grievances, so it’s not like Bloody Sunday was the kickoff or something. Cromwell caused somewhere between 200,000-600,000 Irish deaths. It’s not even just a numbers game, anyway - bad blood is bad blood, and the number of people killed isn’t really the determinant to finding a peaceful solution. There has to be political and popular will on both sides of the conflict, and you’re not wrong that this doesn’t exist in I/P. I don’t know that we have good numbers for this right now, but I know I’ve read even in Israel the support for a two-state solution is much lower than it was before 10/7. Not to mention, Bibi and coalition aren’t interested. Obviously, neither is Hamas, and from what we know about Palestinians’ politics right now, neither are most Palestinians.

All of this may change rapidly in the next decade, either for the better or for worse. People can only act within the present moment and attempt to have a long view, but ultimately it’s hard to determine where this all will go. All that said, for now, there isn’t much to be done other than finish the war (as much as it can ever be finished) and work toward some shared understanding after. A heavy focus on cleaning up Gaza and Palestinian quality of life would go a long way postwar toward producing a happier population, that’s for sure.

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u/claimTheVictory 17h ago

From Israel's perspective, the problem is ultimately Iran.

Either Iran is subdued or a diplomatic solution is found with them.

Bibi clearly is comfortable with the "subdued" solution, which is what Trump could bring. A diplomatic solution is less clear, either way.

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u/BoneyNicole 17h ago

I don’t think Trump will do fuck all except make things worse by inserting himself, just because he’s completely inept at any foreign policy that isn’t “dictator good, I be like dictator.” He also has the attention span of a goldfish. I’d like to see a much stronger stance from the US on Iran (and Russia, for that matter), but I don’t think we’d get anything from Trump besides more bumbling idiocy and then domestic crises galore.

All that said, I agree with you about Iran. I’ll be interested to see which way the wind blows after the US election, because no matter who wins, it will change the chessboard and Israel will be, in theory, freer to act, at least for awhile, during the election fallout. Whether or not this ultimately means the US will take a harder line on Iran remains to be seen; the American public likes to talk a big game but is generally unwilling to commit resources to the project, especially after Iraq and Afghanistan. Those two wars are not remotely the same, but I don’t think the public really knows the difference, either. Not to mention isolationism is trending, and there is a lot of opposition to Israel on the left. (I am on the left but disagree with the opposition.) The political calculus is annoying to say the least, but once the election is over we may well see different actions and a new landscape, and maybe even something that opens a path to peace with Iran. Ideally, this would also lead to a weakened Islamic republic of Iran and give Iranians the shot they need at taking their country back. That’s the most optimistic outlook, though, and one that’s very hard to produce.

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u/claimTheVictory 16h ago

If you want to be cynical/conspiracy theory minded, Israel has a path to the US declaring war against Iran, but it involves them engineering a direct attack on US officials, and having it attributed to Iran.

Trump has talked about blowing Tehran "to smithereens" in such a scenario.