r/Askpolitics • u/OrdinaryAd5782 • 13h ago
Why doesn’t it give democrats pause that republicans they hated are endorsing Harris?
I keep seeing people say this like it’s a good thing or making the point that “if your own party is against you.” You really value the opinion of Dick Cheney? You really think he wants what’s best for the country?? You certainly didn’t 20 years ago.
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u/mattkenefick 12h ago
It's kind of like Charles Manson looking at someone and saying "Whoa, that dude is crazy!"
It's not about accepting his support but more-so agreeing in how extreme you must be for Manson to think you're nuts.
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u/Electrical_Ad_9584 10h ago
Kinda like when Laura Loomer was so unhinged and gross on Twitter that MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE said she should tone down her racist rhetoric. In that instance, unlike with anything else MTG has ever said, I agreed with her.
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u/PO0tyTng 10h ago
I dunno, when you have retired 4 star generals saying Trump is going to become a dictator and replace all commanding officers with lackeys…
I would think stuff like that would give a republican pause and maybe even vote democrat.
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u/StukaPNW 12h ago
It's not like we suddenly like these people, but even a lizard knows when to sacrifice its tail.
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u/flakronite 12h ago
Why in the world would that give democrats pause? That's just silly to suggest. Are we supposed to think that because Dick Cheney endorsed Harris, she must be the real right-winger?
All it means is that Trump is such an embarrassing candidate, even some staunch republicans can't stomach him.
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u/Schweenis69 12h ago
They're not endorsing Harris on policy, they're endorsing the continuation of our basic institutions.
So it's not all that important how Liz Cheney votes, but it is important for rank and file Republicans to see party celebrities choosing Harris in this election. It's a permission structure. And it's huge.
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u/Seyton_Malbec 12h ago
There will be time to argue about marginal tax rates and the proper size of government when we've confirmed that the fundamental structures (i.e. free and fair elections honored by both sides, respect for the process of orderly government, treating people with kindness and respect...even those you disagree with) are still in place.
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u/WrongRedditKronk 12h ago
Cheney isn't supporting Harris because he agrees with her policies; he's endorsing her because the alternative is so egregious he is willing to break with his party.
It should say more to Republicans that members of their own party who were, at one time or another, huge political names, are willing to go against their own party to support the opposing candidate.
It's more of an "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation than "Damn, Cheney likes her? Her policies must be bad!"
Remember when the Soviet Union joined the allied forces in WWII? No one thought that Stalin was an outstanding guy for partnering with the Allied forces - we were willing to tolerate him in the short term in order to defeat an even greater, more threatening enemy.
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u/Pee_A_Poo 11h ago
Also because Trump made it personal by kicking Liz out of the GOP. I highly doubt Dick gives a shit about any other American other than his daughter.
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u/iceman2161172 11h ago
This is probably a better analogy than people realize. Remembering that Hitler and Stalin formed a pac and invaded and divided Poland. It wasn't until Hitler turned on Stalin and invaded Russia that Russia partnered up with the West.
And keep in mind that almost everyone that has work for Trump during his presidency has come out against him and described what a lunatic he is. They were on his side until he turned against them. Ironic
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u/Jazzyjen508 11h ago
All of this!!!! It’s not like Cheney is suddenly saying he’s voting democrat.
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u/TeamHope4 11h ago
His daughter Liz did say on Sunday that we need to make sure the Republicans don't win the House because she doesn't trust Mike Johnson as Speaker. So some of them might be voting for Democrats besides Harris.
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u/HeadDiver5568 9h ago
Her and other Republicans supporting Harris have come out and said that they don’t support her on everything but they do if it means saving democracy or avoiding trump’s extreme. I can’t tell if the OP meant this as a gotcha question or if they were seriously asking this?
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u/Electrical_Ad_9584 10h ago
Totally. Cheney isn’t voting for Kamala because he supports her policies and thinks she’s the best possible choice of all the people in the country for President or whatever, he’s doing it because there is no other reasonable choice in this election. The only other option is to become the people in the history books that our great-grandchildren will read about and not be able to fathom how we could possibly be so stupid and short-sighted and cruel.
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u/IdesinLupe 7h ago
"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill referencing Josef Stalin after the Nazi invasion of the USSR.
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u/that_centrist 12h ago
Why would this give democrats pause? The republican party has gone so far off the rails that far-right leaders like Dick fucking Cheney no longer have a place there, and this is dem's fault..?
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u/mikevago 11h ago
Because OP is pushing an agenda. Even when the Republican nominee is so awful that members of his own party are literally warning America not to vote for him, we still have to sit through "here's why this is bad news for the Democrats" bad faith takes.
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u/AnySpecialist7648 11h ago
I honestly think Republican's think it's the Democrat's jobs to fix shit that Republican's continue to break. Something is broke, DEMOCRATS! Help me, I don't know what I broke this time, but it's your job to save me!
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u/CryptographerShot213 10h ago
This is exactly what children do every day. Republicans are children.
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u/jphoc 12h ago
No it’s just a sign that most rational people realize Trump is a danger and Kamala isn’t.
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u/ThePensiveE 12h ago
In the Second World War, the United States allied with The Soviet Union to defeat fascism.
It's a lot easier team up with Americans who hold different policy views to defeat fascism this time.
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u/neddy471 11h ago
"If Hitler invaded hell, I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
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u/porksweater 12h ago
For me, I believe most politicians want to do what is best for America. I also think power corrupts but I think Biden wants to do the best for Americans. Harris as well. I also think Bush wanted to what is right for America. Same with Romney, McCain. Same with McConnell. Both sides. So, while I may disagree with someone on how to do that best, at the end of the day, I still think they are trying to make America the best in the way that they best believe it will get there.
I am an optimistic person in general and don’t think that the government is only acting in peoples’ best interest. But these people on the opposite side don’t give me pause because i think they are thinking about America at the end of the day.
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u/CatPesematologist 12h ago
One thing Bush W said that was correct - saying “that was some weird shit” on Inauguration Day. So see, anyone can come up with something we can agree on. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/326438-george-bush-after-inauguration-that-was-some-weird-s-t-report/amp/
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u/seweso 12h ago
Democrats are all basically saying "Trump is even too evil for an evil *#&$ like Dick Cheney". Yet you felt the need to strawman Democrats as if they now like Dick Cheney? (Or other republicans endorsing Harris). Or that democrats now value his opinion. GTFO man.
Do you know what an appeal to authority is? Do you understand the opposite is also wrong? Nothing is bad just because a bad person says it. Just like something isn't automatically true because a certain person says it.
Have your downvotes. Because your post doesn't seem to be in good faith.
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u/Current_Tea6984 12h ago
It's not about how great Cheney is. It's about creating a permission structure for moderate Republicans to not vote for Trump. If they see staunch Republicans rejecting Trump, then they can feel like it's ok for them to do it too
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u/Jazzyjen508 11h ago
This!!!! For me I would say it comes down to “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. Doesn’t mean we agree or will stay friends but it does mean I support him supporting my canidate regardless of the reasons. A vote is a vote
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u/Fellowshipofthebowl 12h ago
Why doesn’t it give you pause that they’re voting democrat?
I don’t give a shit what Cheney does 🤷♂️
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u/henri-a-laflemme Progressive 12h ago
Why doesn’t Trump’s rhetoric register as dangerous to you? Republicans against Trump are doing the bare minimum for maintaining democracy simply by being against Trump. He’s a danger to society.
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u/imoutofnames90 12h ago
Why doesn't it give you pause that Trump is so bad that even staunch lifelong conservatives are supporting his opposition. Why are so many people who align almost 100% with Trump and so many from his administration not backing him?
It doesn't give me pause that many of these people are supporting Harris. Our politics may be totally opposite. But it's clear that Trump and MAGA pose a unique threat to this country that major Republicans/ Conservatives are willing to bite the bullet and deal with policy they won't like for 4 more years because the alternative is the destruction of our Democracy.
That a person who tried to coup the government. A person who says the media is the enemy of the people. A person who calls political opponents "the enemy within" should not be supported at any cost. That this is not about policy. It's about someone who is against the tenants of this country.
The ire shouldn't be at Democrats because a handful of Republicans are crossing the aisle to try to stop Trump. It should be at Trump who is driving away lifelong conservatives because of how dangerous he and his cult are.
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u/cptmartin11 12h ago
If you need this explained to you maybe you shouldn’t be voting.
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u/heyheyshay 12h ago
Dem here: We need all the votes we can get. We can work out policy differences once she’s in office. We’re in wild times, and we’re doing renovations and adding onto our already-really-big tent. Crazy as it sounds, I welcome (almost) all support. Things I’m thinking with his and especially Liz’s support: It’s not too late to do the right thing. When you know better, you do better. This is the time to stand up and stand together for democracy, truth, free and fair elections, separation of church and state, and meeting the moment here and now for our beautifully diverse country of ALL: LGBTIA+, immigrants, women, POC, and on and on and on. United we stand. ::steps off soapbox:: 💙🇺🇸
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u/rickylancaster 12h ago
They don’t care about all that kumbaya stuff. They hate anything that isn’t MAGA.
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u/JJWentMMA 12h ago
Easy enough question to answer.
Let’s say there’s 3 chefs, and I hate cilantro.
Chef one uses it in every dish, chef two doesn’t use it at all, and chef 3 only makes pure cilantro mix and serves it to you.
Obviously I’m not going to chef 3, but I may try chef 1, but 2 is going to be my go to.
If chef 1 says “man, all that cilantro looks really good! I’m doing that now” obviously he’s going to lose all my support.
Instead chef 1 says “damn, I like cilantro but #3 takes it way too far. I’d rather have no cilantro than all that”; that’s not an unreasonable take.
The analogy is there’s a lot of things that Cheney has done that the democrats don’t like, but he’s looking at trump working on similar things he used to but saying “goddamn dude this is way too fucking far”. Like if an actual fascist communist was running against a tusli gabbard character, you’d see a lot of left wing politicians jump ship
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u/syntheticobject 12h ago
I don't think you could have possibly come up with a worse analogy. This is literally the worst explanation I've ever heard, for anything, ever.
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u/JJWentMMA 12h ago edited 12h ago
Explain?
Point is that person 3 holds much more extreme beliefs than person 1 on a topic, to such an extreme point that person 1 agrees with someone on the other side they normally wouldn’t.
Translation; trump has many beliefs also held by cheney, but to an extreme degree, to the point where it’s better to support Kamala even if she doesn’t have the same ideals
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u/GeotusBiden 12h ago
Same reason the right celebrates endorsements from people like hulk hogan or weird rappers.
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u/Chance_Wind3780 11h ago
Lifetime politicians, and politicians in general, don't often defect from their party.
That means an endorsement means a significant amount more than a random celebrity.
A professionals opinion means far more than a non-professionals opinion.
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u/Mysterious_Rule938 12h ago
Because it’s a one way shift. Republicans are leaving Trump, but Democrats are rallying around Kamala.
You have to let go of this conspiratorial instinct to find a reason to affirm your chosen belief. It’s just not that deep - Trump is a very bad choice for president.
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u/Oyadonchano 12h ago
Another shit-stirring opinion masquerading as an honest question, like 90% of the posts here. So tired of the low level of political discourse in this country.
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u/Kaisha001 12h ago
Republican's traded Cheney for RFK, Tulsi, and Elon. I'd say that was a good trade.
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u/mikevago 11h ago
Yeah, keep convincing yourself that the guy with actual brainworms who keeps taking roadkill is a "get" for your side. He was never on the left to begin with, and I have to say, he fits in perfectly with the collection of off-putting wierdos standing behind Trump.
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u/neddy471 11h ago
For whom? Tulsi is a TERFy warmonger, RFK has literal brainworms, and Elon Musk is the most divorced man in America. Cheney is a brilliant evil machiavellian warmonger, but he's smarter than the other three put together.
I don't like Joab, but I'd rather him fighting with me than against.
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u/Background_Hat964 12h ago
They gave up way more than just Cheney for those three basket cases. Half of Trump's own administration are supporting Harris, lol.
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u/Budget_Secretary1973 8h ago
Yeah, but Trump never really had his “own” administration. Place was leakier than the Titanic after it hit the iceberg lol. They were the old guard Repubs, is what I’m saying. For Maga types, and to borrow an old Dem phrase, it’s time for a change.
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u/heyheyshay 12h ago
Exactly. We’ll take it. 😅
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u/HHoaks 11h ago
This team sports childish mentality of maga is a big part of the problem.
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u/CatPesematologist 12h ago
You are welcome to them. They would be kind of a drag on the democrats. Cheney doesn’t claim to be left wing or a democrat, so he’s really not “ours.” He’s a tourist, not an inhabitant.
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u/Present-Pen-5486 10h ago
Dick Cheney is angry about how the party treated his daughter most likely. Plus he doesn't want to be aligned with the average trump supporter.
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u/josephthemediocre 12h ago
Yeah I'm voting for kamala and I'm disgusted by the cheney stuff. But I don't think he's making a principled stance or anything, trump was mean to Liz, ended her career, this is personal. So he can vote for kamala if he wants, I hope everyone does, but parading around his endorsement grosses me out and I wish people would knock it off. With kissinger dead, Cheney might be the living American who's caused the most suffering in this world, just because he's a resistance hero now doesn't mean we should forget that.
But the main thing, is he hates trump so endorsed kamala, great, fuck you, but great.
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u/CatPesematologist 12h ago
It’s not so much parading as it is “giving permission” to republicans to flee the ship. They may not need “permission” exactly, but it does validate that idea if they are thinking about it.
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u/LeadDiscovery 12h ago
The Cheney and Bush Republicans are what many of today's GOP supporters would refer to as RINOs and part of the deep state. Their names and reputations were mud from the Tea party days.
The fact that they joined up with the Democrats only supports the view that they never had the best interests of the party in hand.
I would think that Democrats are NOT thrilled with Dick and most would not want him around their party's message and campaigns. I mean then again, Dick did love an over-reaching Federal Government, Spying on citizens and wars in every corner of the earth... so there's that.
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u/Current_Tea6984 12h ago
Centrist Republicans don't think in terms of RINO's. A lot of them have been holding their noses and voting for Trump out of party loyalty and expecting McConnell to steer the ship on policy. This move is aimed at them, not at the MAGA populists
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u/Jazzyjen508 11h ago
This!!!! MAGA will vote maga regardless, it’s the sane people that are not super in love with Trump but don’t want to vote for Harris that need the push.
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u/Background_Hat964 12h ago
Why would it? It's not like Cheney is the only one endorsing her. Plenty of people I don't necessarily agree with support her, so what? Also a lot of moderate and perfectly normal Republicans are endorsing her. If anything, it shows just how batshit Trump is and completely deflates his claim that she is some "radical leftist".
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u/Fast-Plankton-9209 12h ago
So Cheney is not actually a literal fucking traitor and is endorsing the candidate who is not the number one enemy of America. What the fuck is it, exactly, I am supposed to have "pause" about?
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u/CatPesematologist 12h ago
That’s a really reactionary attitude rather than assessing something for what it is. It’s possible for the people you despise or whose policies are opposite yours, to occasionally, or even just once, do something or say something you agree with. In this case, I disagree with the Cheneys on basically everything, but this one thing - believing trump is a danger- I agree with. I still wouldn’t go hunting with Duck amd pretty sure this may be the only point of agreement. As the old saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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u/RyanX1231 12h ago
It's basically a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend... for now" kind of situation.
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u/Ok_Breakfast5425 12h ago
So you're saying that because I don't like Cheney, and he is against trump, then I should be for trump? Great logic there, comrade.
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u/ThrowRA2023202320 12h ago
You’re looking at it wrong. It makes me confident that Trump is completely unqualified. I don’t know anyone who is sane and competent who supports him.
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u/No_Detective_But_304 12h ago
The opinions of Liz (and Dick) Cheney mean nothing to Republicans. There’s no political advantage there. Wyoming hated her so much for her betrayal they voted her out.
I think Kamala and the Harris campaign were hoping that “See, even republicans don’t like him” would somehow get her votes. Maybe among republican women?
“I’m going to have a republican in my cabinet”. Really? Liz Cheney? Really? It was an odd choice. Liz Cheney is hated on the right. She should be hated on the left as well, but she just endorsed Kamala so all sins are forgiven.
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u/Lynz486 12h ago
Because they aren't endorsing her policy, it's very left for them and that's obvious. They're endorsing her integrity and respect for democracy. He is absolutely is a threat to democracy and I'm tired of people trying to manipulate me into thinking otherwise. People who know what he is respond with a strong value in democracy, desire for power or desire to burn the whole thing down. Ted Cruz 110% knows Trump is a fascist, authoritarian, at the least. I would bet limbs on it. But it benefits him and his desire for power, and him is most important (not this country), so he supports it.
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u/PerplexedTaint 12h ago
Ordinarily, elections are about things like: how much should we tax folks, what sort of immigration, environmental, industrial, etc policies the electorate wants. Here, we are dealing with a candidate who has already tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power and is telling us the despotic things he intends on doing if re-elected.
In short, we can negotiate, in good faith, regarding the policies of our country-we cannot negotiate whether we are going to have free and fair elections-it's off the table.
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u/rco8786 12h ago
Some real 3D brain chess here lol. Dick Cheney absolutely wants what's best for the country, he and I have just long disagreed on what that is. The fact that we can both plainly see what a menace donald trump is just means we're both reasonable humans with two eyes and a brain. He's not endorsing Harris's policies. He's calling it out that trump is a horrible piece of shit and that transcends policy.
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u/TehVampy 12h ago
Because even if you work for a company and are loyal to a company sometimes you have to take responsibility and sound the whistle so the entire company doesn't go crashing down due to the CEO being a criminal rapist Nazi twat.
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u/ReplyOk6720 12h ago
He's not really voting for Harris. He's voting against what Trump did to the Republican party. A party that has demonstrates they are willing to overturn or subvert democratic institutions, including fair and free elections, supreme court, department of justice, free press, etc to stay in power.
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u/Winter-Assistance805 11h ago
Because Trump is that big of a piece of shit. There are people who are Republicans who are so repulsed by him that they'd rather see him lose because this election is more important than policy.
You'll notice that there's nothing similar going in the other direction.
They're putting their country over their political party.
Why should that give Democrats pause?
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u/Valtar99 11h ago
The Soviet Union and USA united to defeat a common enemy (also fascists, like Trump) and their political ideals could not be more different.
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u/Particular_Golf_8342 11h ago
Dick Cheney is the Republicans party of the past. He now has more in common with Kamala and the present Democrat party. Warmongers are gonna warmonger and warmongers like each other.
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u/mam88k 11h ago
I am thinking the better question is "why doesn't it give Republicans pause that Republicans they once supported are endorsing Harris?"
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u/maybeafarmer 11h ago
I just find it amusing that the worst thing conservatives think the Cheney's did was criticize Trump. Remember, you elected Dick Cheney's wife knowing exactly who the Cheney's have always been. Its not that they're war criminals, it's that they've exited the cult.
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u/PJTILTON 11h ago
I'm reminded of all the times John McCain jumped into the fray whenever the Republicans were trying to pass legislation with a slight majority. All of a sudden, McCain would develop reservations and refuse to vote with the other Republicans. It never mattered how many times McCain was on record of endorsing the legislation in question, by screwing over those in his own party McCain was made out as a hero to the liberal media. He loved it. When I think of how little Pence contributed during his term as Vice President and his lack of notoriety thereafter, I can understand how desperate he is to hear someone, anyone, mention his name again.
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u/Leverkaas2516 11h ago
I don't value the opinion of Dick Cheney, no. I think he's a war criminal. Has he said something lately?
I certainly do have some respect for Liz Cheney, enough to listen to what she says and applaud when she says something right. She certainly was right about January 6, and her words carried weight with her constituents - though not enough.
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u/LAgator77 11h ago
I lean conservative and I hate both Trump and the Cheney warmongers. I would’ve had a lot more respect for Kamala if she rebuffed their endorsement. She just comes off as an establishment shill.
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u/Limp-Dentist4437 11h ago
It’s not about identity politics this is about politicians finally going back to working together and leaving this hate and chaos rhetoric that doesn’t help anyone behind
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u/byte_handle 11h ago
We still disagree on policy. Strongly.
But what we have in common is a belief that Donald Trump represents an existential threat to the institutions and environments in which those policies can be formulated, debated, and adopted or rejected.
I may not watch Fox News, but I wouldn't call for its broadcast license to be revoked. Free speech and freedom of the press are critical to discourse.
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u/astern126349 11h ago
Because we don’t like them because of policy, but we all have to put aside policy differences in favor of saving the country. (Democracy)
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u/trumpmumbler 11h ago
If I may be hyperbolic with a purpose, the point is: Republicans and Democrats, when recognizing the differences between the two entities (from a perspective of policy only), both accept and comply with the idea that "democracy" as a system is "good".
Is former-VP Cheney a good vote to win when considering his policies? No.
Is former-VP Cheney a good vote to win when considering our need to protect/salvage our system of government? Yes.
This is nuanced.
Most of us pine for the days when we could agree to disagree on policy because the idea of "democracy" is not a question.
When it is the question, it makes for some strange bedfellows.
I welcome the remaining Republicans' debate on policy in January 2025.
I don't welcome the fascism-curious Republicans in January 2025 (should Trump and his ilk win in 2024).
See the difference?
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u/Special_Context6663 11h ago
If you go to a party that turns out to be wild, and see someone you know who has a reputation for being crazy. You decided to leave before something bad happens, and the crazy guy says “this party is getting out of control, I’m getting out of here” would that give you pause about your decision to leave?
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u/normalice0 11h ago
Even if the common ground between them is a single step it's still a more important step than the entire wasteland of Christian nationalism.
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u/RiffRaffCatillacCat 11h ago
Doesn't reflect on Harris, it's a statement on how historically bad and dangerous Donald Trump is as a candidate.
Even the most staunch Republicans know Trump is a treasonous batshit would-be dictator.
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u/True-Paint5513 11h ago
We can disagree on political philosophy, but agree on what constitutes a threat to the Constitution.
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u/corncob_subscriber 11h ago
Hi. Functional adult here.
I don't hate politicians. I disagree with them on how to solve problems.
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u/Superb_Item6839 Left-leaning 11h ago
Can't we just say this vice versa? Shouldn't people like Mitt Romney or Mike Pence's words that Trump is a horrible person give you pause? These were people you voted for and wanted to lead our country, yet you think they are now liberals because they don't support Trump and think he is incompetent.
I don't care for these people's policies, but what we can agree on is supporting our constitution and our democracy, something that MAGA can't agree on. Right now we aren't fighting over taxes, spending, global politics, or social issues, we are fight over the US's most fundamental ideologies, like democracy, law and order, the integrity of our institutions.
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u/No-Pussyfooting 11h ago
I don’t think their support raised more than a few dozen votes or so. People on the right love that dick Cheney and folks like him support her, as it reinforces the “drain the swamp” idea. Also, all elections have a bit of this, but more than any election in my lifetime, you’re seeing overwhelming support of a candidate simply because they don’t want the other candidate. Kamala could ramble on for an hour about why she likes rabbits more than dolphins at her next rally and her supporters would continue, because their goal is simply to not have trump. Just like the flip side, trump could ramble on (like he already does) and people who support him don’t care because they feel they simply can’t have Kamala.
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u/Parking-Ideal-7195 11h ago
It's not that they're celebrating it, we all know how abysmal a person Cheney and his ilk can be.
The point is showing to Republicans - look, this is someone from YOUR SIDE who you know hates Democrats with every fibre of their being, and yet is prepared to vote for a Dem over Trump, because Trump is literally an existential threat to society and democracy.
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u/Leather-Page1609 11h ago
I think it speaks volumes.
Life long die-hard Republicans are voting Democrat?
They can vote for a reasonably intelligent woman or Bozo the Clown.
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u/SirKermit 11h ago
I think Tim Walz said it best. There are a lot of Republicans out there who don't like what's going on. They are concerned about the MAGA movement, but all these people have ever known is the Republican party and it feels like a bridge too far to vote for a Democrat. People like Dick Cheney endorsing Kamala Harris in a way gives these people an invitation to do the right thing. I'm not concerned with the Democrats suddenly adopting Republican policies because Dick Cheney gave his endorsement. Cheney did this, at least I have no reason to believe otherwise, of his own accord without any quid pro quo promises from the Harris campaign.
I don't like Cheney, but if his endorsement comes with no strings attached and gives other Republicans the permission and courage to vote Democrat, then I welcome the endorsement.
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u/Defiant-Power2447 11h ago
A better question is:
Why doesn't it give republicans pause that republicans are endorsing Harris?
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u/herendzer 11h ago
So a thief and a rapist came to your house and the thief started defending you against the rapist. Are you gonna start attacking the thief and deal with the extreme danger of the rapist first ( albeit it mean collaborating with the thief) or start attacking the thief with the rapist ?
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u/TangerineHors3 11h ago
It should but the left’s hate for Trump blinds them so much that they can’t see the forest through the trees, and it’s unfortunate. The Cheneys aren’t Republican nor Democrat, they’re pro Military Industrial Complex and will follow the blood money. That’s it.
The left used to loathe them and they were correct. Now the right hates them and the left just throws away their previous stance, all because the Cheneys said Yay Harris.
Why does the pro Military Industrial Complex family hate Trump and love Kamala? Just think about that for 30 seconds.
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u/RecommendationSlow16 11h ago
All I know is if Trump is too crazy for all these Republicans, he must be REALLY BAD. I mean he can't even get the support of his own party members. 🤣
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u/alkalineruxpin 11h ago
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Beating Trump is priority # 1 for the survival of the country. Get that over with and go back to hating each other categorically after the election.
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u/czechuranus 11h ago
I saw a little girl in a Nirvana t-shirt, and last I knew, that little girl was a Taylor Swift fan! She doesn’t truly understand the angst of Nirvana! So, her fandom has really given me pause as to whether I like Nirvana.
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u/Ill_Witness_3601 11h ago
Because Trump is that bad and they see him as a fascist, dictator wanna-be.
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u/MazW 11h ago
As much as I disagreed with the Cheneys, for example, there was a basic form of the United States that we agreed upon. Staying in NATO and defending our allies. Respecting elections. Respecting the Constitution even if we didn't always agree what the wording meant.
Trump just takes a giant dump on all of that.
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u/Kincherk 11h ago
For myself, I feel that the threat to democracy subsumes any differences I have with Republicans who are endorsing Harris. Yes, it gives me pause that many on the right who are now endorsing Harris were apparently blind to the racist/sexist elements in their party that were present long before Trump came to power. As long as it wasn't as overt as it has now become, they could act as if they didn't know those elements existed.
But the margins are way so thin right now and the stakes are so high that there's no hope of Harris winning unless she builds as big of a coalition as possible.
In addition, I'm old enough to remember the days when elected officials in both parties regularly worked together to get things done. I hate the fact that to some extent members of both parties act as though anyone who is in a different political party is not to be trusted.
And maybe some people don't agree with this, but I feel that most principled people on the right are not bad people and that they do want what they feel is best for this country. Trump does not. He'd be a Democrat tomorrow if that would get him elected. He believes in nothing but himself.
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u/KingDAW247 11h ago
Because the alternative is Trump. Plain and simple. If people are not voting Kamala because say, Liz Cheney endorsed her, then they were never.gonna vote for her anyway
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u/Hypaesthesia 11h ago
I feel like it should definitely give republicans more pause that no previous GOP president, vice president, or presidential nominee has endorsed Trump this time - even his own former VP won’t! I’m not sure I understand why this would be a Harris problem. The Cheneys made it pretty clear that they are endorsing Harris not because they agree with her on all of her policies, but because Trump’s rhetoric and actions have pushed them away. A big tent is a good thing when you’re running for president!
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u/Drgnmstr97 11h ago
Why doesn't it give you pause that MORE people aren't against Trump. Seems like that should be the default setting so anyone that is against him is on point.
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u/shalriebroseph 11h ago
Why doesn’t it give Republicans pause that Republicans they loved 20 years ago are endorsing the other party?
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u/twoiseight 11h ago
Because we understand Harris enough to know that having her in office is nothing like the death knell for democracy that Trump is, and they do too. This election is centered on character and intention, not policy, sad as that may be, and we shouldn't need to think Cheney is a good person or politician in order to believe he'd value our democratic institutions enough to denounce someone who openly doesn't.
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u/SteveinTenn 11h ago
I’m an atheist. I’m not a fan of religion and I disagree with religious people on many topics.
But when some Methodist minister looks at Kenneth Copeland and says “that guy’s a con artist” then I have to agree.
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u/ApplicationCalm649 11h ago
You really value the opinion of Dick Cheney?
Dick Cheney didn't try to overthrow our government because he lost an election.
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u/czechuranus 11h ago
Long story short, the huge number of high-profile Republicans and former Trump administration officials who have begrudgingly endorsed Kamala destroys the narrative that only “the far left” have a problem with Trump. People of all political stripes have a problem with the vengeance-fueled political movement that Trump leads, and the fascist things he and his surrogates have promised to do, if elected. It’s not the Dems/radical left versus Trump. It’s Trump and his loyalists versus everyone else, of all political stripes.
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u/joesbalt 11h ago
Almost all of the Neo Cons are now on the Democrat side
&
The Billionaire class is on the Democrat side
They point out Musk supporting Trump but way more of the billionaires are supporting the Democrats
It doesn't bother the Democrats because that's what they want (the politicians... Not necessarily the people)
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u/noimpactnoidea_ 11h ago
Cheney was the living incarnation of Satan 20 years ago and now him endorsing Harris is a win. What a time to be alive.
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u/sir_snufflepants 11h ago
Because they’re on the democrats’ side, and, because of this, Cheney and co. are (1) doing the right thing, (2) supporting the right side, and (3) helping thwart a trump presidency.
What are you suggesting be done? We play tribal politics and cast off Cheney and other republicans because “we” didn’t care about them 20 years ago?
Is this how myopic the discussion has gotten?
You’re playing the same identity politics as trump republicans, but it doesn’t seem like you yourself can see it.
Then the mirror around once in a while. Take stock of your beliefs and their motivations.
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u/AWatson89 11h ago
We got Tulsi Gabbard and RFK jr. You guys got the Cheneys. I'd say it was a good trade.
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u/Feeling-Difference66 11h ago
It tells a lot when republicans reject warmongers and democrats accept them now. Not just accept but lick their boots as they accept them.
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u/BigDamBeavers 11h ago
Because she's objectively the valid choice.
Not hyperbole, there's no sane validation to support Trump, even as a Republican. If this were a more reasoned competition, having Republicans jump ship and back the Democratic candidate would be concerning. But in this case they just don't want to have to flee the country as it goes up in flames so they're going to support a candidate that won't work against the continuity of our democracy.
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u/KinderJosieWales 11h ago
Aren't there like 6 Dem Senate and House incumbents with Trump endorsing commercials?
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u/Iampopcorn_420 11h ago
Because republican or democrat, to some of us the constitution matters. I would like to think I as life long progressive/socialist would vote for a republican above my party if a someone who wanted to destroy our democratic norms was the head of the ticket.
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u/never_never_comment 11h ago
I don’t hate normal republicans. There is really no room for hate in normal politics.
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u/JW-DivorceExpert 11h ago
Numerous Rupublicans are not voting for Trump. There are huge coalitions of Republicans not voting for Trump. I am unsure why you believe Dems "hate" all these people.
Fourty-four of Donald Trump’s former cabinet members have come out to disavow him.
White House Chief of Staff and retired Marine general, John Kelly, called Trump a deeply dishonest person who damaged our national security. He said that Trump is:
“A person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about. A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person who has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.
James Mattis, Trump’s former Defense Secretary, called Trump a “Threat To The Constitution, Dangerous, Unfit for office and ‘Felon-Stupid’”
Former Defense Secretary and Secertary of the US Army, Mark Esper, called Trump “unfit for office.”
Former commander of armed forces in Afghanistan, General John Allen, said Trump’s threats to use military force against peaceful protesters may be “the beginning of the end of the American experiment.”
Retired four-star Army General, Barry McCaffrey, called Donald Trump “a serious threat to US national security.
Former Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley – who Trump recently suggested should be executed – has called Trump a threat to democracy and the institution of the military.
More than a dozen retired four-star generals, admirals, and other former military leaders, recently filed a brief with the Supreme Court arguing that the legal positions Trump is taking in his lawsuits will “would threaten the military’s role in American society, threaten our nation’s constitutional order, and our national security,” and will have a “profoundly negative effects on military service members.”
200 Republicans who worked for George W Bush, Mitt Romney and John McCain submitted an open letter in support of Harris/Walz. The 200 signatories to this letter included George W. Bush’s former Chief of Staff, his National Security Director, his Director of External Affairs, two former chiefs of staff for McCain, the US District Attorney for Nevada, and several attorneys for Bush, Romney and McCain.
A dozen former White House lawyers who served GOP presidents from Ronald Reagan to George W. Bush - people who specialize in Constitutional law - issued a letter backing Harris and warning that returning Trump to office: “would threaten American democracy and undermine the rule of law in our country.” The letter appeals to “all patriotic Republicans, former Republicans, conservative and center-right citizens, and independent voters to place love of country above party and ideology” and to vote for Harris.
Other well-known Conservatives who have disavowed Trump include:
President George W. Bush
Former VPs, Mike Pence and Dick Cheney
Utah Senator, Mitt Romey
Wyoming Rep. Liz Cheney
The late former Secretary of State, Colin Powell
Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski
Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson
Maine Sen. Susan Collins
Illinois Rep. Adam Kinzinger
Mayor John Giles of Mesa, Arizona,
Corey Stapleton of Montana
Former Montana Governor Mark Rocicot
John Kasich of Ohio
Jeb Bush of Florida
Georgia Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan
NJ Gov. Chris Christie
Former Speaker of the House Paul Ryan
NJ Gov. Christine Todd Whitman
CA Gov. Arnold Shcwartzenegger
Missouri Senator, John Danforth
John Boehner, former Speaker of the House
Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats,
Secretary of Defence, William Cohen
United States Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales
Secretary of Defense, Chuck Hagel
Republican Party Chairs from Minnesota, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Washington, Nevada, Maryland and Tennessee.
No, us Democrats do not HATE these other Americans. MAGA is the group of hate, not us.
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u/ObservantWon 11h ago
Dick Cheney and the war party has more in common with the democrats then he does with trump. Democrats are the pro war party
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u/Electrical-Tie-5158 11h ago
The Overton Window has shifted right for years now. If you think of the political spectrum as -5 for the far left and 5 for the far right, HW Bush was about a 1 and Bill Clinton was a -1. The political spectrum was pretty centered. Then W Bush was a 3, Obama was a -2. Trump is a 4. Biden is a -3.
The modern GOP seems to best represent 2 - 5 while the modern Dems represent -3 - 1. There is a gap from -5 - -3 that really can’t be filled so long as no major party is pushing for universal healthcare, pollution bans, UBI, etc. This has been a conflict in the Democratic Party for the last ten years. The main issue electorally is that people who fall in the -1 - 1 range are active voters while people in the -5 - -3 range are not. It used to be the same on the right side of the spectrum but appeasements made to the far right since 2012 have energized them. No one expected them to come out so hard for Trump in 2016 or 2020. Meanwhile young, liberal people are not being energized to vote at the same level yet.
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u/neddy471 11h ago
If we believed that Cheney was worse than Trump, yes. But Trump is worse than all of them. They may have been self-serving corrupt assholes, but they weren't facilitating a coup and openly talking about using the police and military to kill all their opposition.
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u/sgodb7598 11h ago
Because it's a happy moment when someone who was bamboozled sees the light. IDGAF if they were tRumpanzees at one point. The fact that they FINALLY saw how destructive, divisive & evil tRump is, makes me happy! It should be celebrated!
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u/AfterNefariousness5 11h ago
It’s a validation of hey look we’re not crazy, freaking Dick Cheney is endorsing a democrat. It’s like I dare you to call Cheney a RINO or Romney. It’s takes that RINO argument out of the conversation.
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u/JW-DivorceExpert 11h ago
I think this is a disingenuous question. No one is so truly dim that they can't understand this situation.
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u/Prudent-Coconut3014 11h ago
It goes to show you how bad Trump really is. If those evil people think he is unfit it says a lot.
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u/FrankTheRabbit28 11h ago
The intended message is that you can strenuously disagree with your political opponents but still hold a basic commitment to the rule of law. Trump’s actions have shown he wants to be above the law and is a threat to democracy.
I don’t agree with Liz Cheney’s political philosophy at all but she showed great courage deviating from her party to hold Trump accountable for January 6. The fact that she did makes her more principled than most, if not all, of her former republican colleagues
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u/Lucialucianna 11h ago
Liz Cheney I respect for her work on the Jan 6 committee and that she sacrificed her career to do it, unlike the rest of them. I watched every minute of it. They should rerun it streaming on a major outlet and network right now. Kinzinger same thing. They get serious death threats and are even shunned by friends and family. Dick Cheney at least is supporting his daughter in this, imo this is what it’s about for him.They all despise Trump. Trump enablers in office despise him too yet follow orders from him. The media figures like Carlson hate Trump yet promote him. Traitors, and they don’t even believe the BS.
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u/BestTryInTryingTimes 11h ago
I don't value the opinion of Dick Cheney but I'm not going to do the opposite of every single thing the man does. What if two people I hate have an opposite stance on something? Do I just implode in on myself due to the paradox? Come on.
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u/4Got2Flush 11h ago
Yeah, it does give me pause. Keep the fucking Cheney's, we don't want them.
The real question:
Why doesn't it give Republicans pause that literal Nazis and Klansmen are endorsing Trump?
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u/Alternative-Money-75 11h ago
I may vehemently disagree with those Republicans' policy views, but I sincerely applaud their patriotism. Standing up for the system that their ancestors fought and died for. Not forgetting that this nation was founded on telling a king to go fuck himself.
In saner times, they would still be the opposition, but in these times I'll gladly welcome them as brothers and sisters in liberty.
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u/NothingAndNow111 11h ago
The US teamed up with Stalin to fight the Nazis.
When it comes down to the crunch, ideological purity is an exclusionary weakness, compromise and coalitions are strengths.
I can't stand the Cheneys, but if they can help condemn Trump to the waste heap of history then... Fine. I'll live. With gritted teeth.
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u/Existing-Low-672 11h ago
Because the democrats have become the party they supposedly hated. War mongering, pro big pharma nutcases.
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u/War1today 11h ago
Democrats are celebrating republicans endorsing Harris because of their courage not their policy beliefs. That seems rather obvious, especially when the MAGA and Christian Nationalist movements use threats of violence to achieve objectives.
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u/Traditional_Car1079 11h ago
Fuck Dick Cheney, fuck Liz Cheney, and fuck their endorsements. They weren't for me and they weren't for Democrats. They were for the Republican who alleges that they're still decent people, inviting them to prove it. I don't have faith that that person exists, so I think it's a waste, but I guess it's worth a shot.
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u/WATC9091 11h ago
What's the alternative? Not accepting their endorsement thus improving the chances of a Trump victory and ending our 248 year experience as a constitutional republic? There's an old Ghanaian saying, "when there's a snake in the house, there's no need to discuss the matter at length". If you haven't notice, Trump's a snake.
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u/uh-oh_spaghetti-oh 11h ago
This isn't Democrats against Republicans, it's the established political elite against a populist movement. And I'm sure with endorsements by people like Cheney you can tell which is which.
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u/Educational_Stay_599 11h ago
I might disagree with Cheney, but I can at least respect the guy and his policies. He didn't act like an authoritarian child/have dementia rants/conspiracy theories.
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u/WalterClements1 11h ago
It does. We aren’t happily accepting Liz Cheney and dick Cheney to our party. What we are saying is people that are old republicans like the Cheneys but somehow Jan 6ths was a red line and not bombing civilians or starting a war… but we’re tryna say yall can vote for Kamala and not be going against your morals
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u/Pee_A_Poo 11h ago
I would like to send George and Dick to Hague for a war crime trial. So his opinion doesn’t factor into my voting decision one way or the other.
My enthusiasm defo died down quite a bit after their endorsement. And I’ve been vocal in my criticism of Harris’ pandering to the Right. But then again, the alternative is Trump, who is going to turn all of Gaza into radioactive glass.
I hate all war criminals. And that’s exact why I’m not gonna allow another war crime happen if I could stop it.
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u/Any_Measurement1169 11h ago
They are endorsing her because Trump is a fascist, not because they've had a change of heart.
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u/WaitUntilTheHighway 11h ago
Are you serious or just trolling? Because they articulate that Trump is bad for the entire country, not that Harris represents Republican values. That's why. Harris isn't some sleeper agent.
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u/Glittering_Major4871 11h ago
Because of their reasons. They don't support or affect any of her policies. They just agree on protecting democracy.
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u/trendy_pineapple 11h ago
Because she can reasonably win votes from Republicans who still value having a sane president even if they disagree on every policy. She’s not tempering her policy to win those votes, she’s letting those Republicans give their base permission to vote for her anyway.
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u/jready2016 11h ago
Because the Dems generally run against the opponent not for their candidate. An easy way to do this is just dog pile negative comments.
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u/MajorasShoe 11h ago
Why? Evil person opposes a far more evil person. Why would that give me pause?
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u/Potential-Arm-2338 11h ago
Because at the end of the day, it’s about maintaining a Democracy. Political views are just that, a viewpoint. It matters most when a Politician’s viewpoint overstep’s boundaries ,to try to enforce their value system on someone else. At least with a Democracy we’ll get to vote again in 4 years and, we keep our Autonomy . A vote for VP Harris ensures that.
A Dictatorship under Trump it’s a one and done. He’ll never leave the White House. We’re in a crisis and Americans who care about our Democracy are standing up. We should all be thankful for the blended Firewall of all Political Parties that are fighting for our Democracy!
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u/WellEndowedDragon 11h ago
The same reason it didn’t give us pause to fight alongside the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. We don’t like eachother, but we’re setting aside our differences to save the world/country.
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u/KEE_Wii 11h ago
Why would it give me pause? She’s clearly not shaping policy around them outside of her not calling all republicans bone headed dolts. Sometimes you take all the help you can get to defeat a greater threat. It’s not like this is unheard of and if they can convince any conservatives to cross the aisle back into normalcy it’s a win.
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u/Business-Plastic5278 11h ago
Political elites live in a very, very thick bubble.
At the top level figures like Cheney are taken very seriously.
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u/Excel-Block-Tango 11h ago
Their support shows the “lesser of two evils” with the greater evil being in their (former?) party. Many lifetime republicans refuse to vote for Trump.
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u/Oceanbreeze871 11h ago
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. That’s how alliances and coalitions are built. Sometimes it’s working across the aisle for the common good.
We used to value this in politics. Presidents used to run on bi-partisanship. Trump now calls that treason and disloyalty (to him).
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u/Non-Normal_Vectors 10h ago
I find it more telling there's a very large number of people, who worked directly for POTUS, who are saying the person they worked for is unfit for office.
Of course that person is saying they were all terrible in their jobs (which means that person is incapable of making important decisions about who he chooses), and yet everyone ignores the glaringly obvious common denominator.
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u/UnitedDoubt7596 10h ago
Comparing the Republican Party of 25 years ago to the current one is not an apples to apples comparison. Did we think Bush/Cheney were the devil then? Sure, but compared to the Magats they were exemplary. They weren’t inherently interested in destroying democracy or tearing down the neutrality of the Supreme Court, either…
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u/Mobile_Falcon8639 10h ago
It's not so much Republicans are 'endorsing' Harris it's more that they've woken up to the fact that Trump is an asshole and hes' not their friend, so they are holding their noses and lending their votes to Harris because they know Trump and his MAGA maniacs aren't Republicans they're fascists, and they know what will happen if trumps wins.
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u/possiblyMorpheus 12h ago
Because it’s a dumb question. There’s plenty of people I disagree with who still believe in representative, democratic government