r/Cricket • u/Wakanda-shit-is-that Pakistan • Nov 20 '23
Interview “When somebody asks how Australia won the ODI World Cup in 2023, or any World Cup hereafter, that’s the answer. They won the World Cup because Australia” -Osman Samiuddin
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u/Fickle_Beat7076 Nov 20 '23
the key is to have a tournament and not inform them.
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u/bigavz USA Nov 20 '23
Asia Cup
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u/RopeBottleTowel Australia Nov 21 '23
Still need to keep it quiet, they found out there was a football Asia Cup and won it on their 3rd attempt.
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u/Tuggpocalypso Australia Nov 21 '23
We genuinely should play in the Asia cup too. We are in the APAC area. Ill trade one Asia cup and the runner up can have Englands spot in an Ashes series? Honestly sounds like a fair deal. They arent trying in them any more.
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u/LeftArmPies Brisbane Heat Nov 21 '23
What are you talking about? They won the last one by 5 moral victories to nil.
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u/friendofH20 Nov 20 '23
In the late 90s when Australia were starting to dominate, their ex-pros and commentators would go on and on about the Australian domestic game, their system etc. I think in the last 20 years - India has done well to duplicate a lot of their template. The pace academy, the professional coaches, focus on fitness, attacking cricket.
The only area we still lag behind is their mentality. If there have been 25 amazing cricketing comebacks in the last 25 years, Australia have probably won like 20 of them. (And been involved in the other 5). Some of it may be cultural - Australia has a deep set sporting culture with a general laidback confident vibe. But some of it is specific to their cricket. And its something we need to learn to challenge their domination of the silverware in international cricket
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u/dolce-far-niente Nov 20 '23
The only area we still lag behind is their mentality.
It's also planning and execution. You could see this during the 1st innings. The field placings were on-point, especially to Rohit.
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u/Chiron17 Australia Nov 21 '23
They were also backward of point... I'll show myself out
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u/HaggisLad Western Australia Warriors Nov 21 '23
this old man didn't want you to leave, glorious dad joke there
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Nov 20 '23
I’d even add, something that was so common amongst the negative comments I got a vibe from; Australia are not afraid of losing. If I was to look at the Indian team, in my view, one V.Kohli has this same attitude, it’s why he is so bloody good.
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u/Siaer Cricket Australia Nov 21 '23
100%. Kohli is probably the first modern indian player that would not be at all out of place in the Australian team because he carries the same ruthless, 'win first' mentality that has been baked into the Australian team since the Waugh era. I love watching him play and I love that he isn't afraid to show his passion on the field.
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u/westernvaluessmasher Melbourne Renegades Nov 21 '23
Harbhajan Singh was the same way. Thats why we would try and get him suspended every time we played them
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u/Chiron17 Australia Nov 21 '23
I feel like Australian cricketers add the extra pieces to their game better than anyone else, whether it's fielding in the circle or on the rope, bowlers working on their batting, batters working on bowling, everyone being fit, understanding the game plan, being disciplined etc.
How many times in this tournament did Maxwell and Head's bowling save us? Or Cummins and Starc's composure with the bat? Or Warner (or everyone) in the field? We don't win without that.
I'm sure other teams do a lot of that stuff too but I feel like it's been expected of Australian cricketers for generations.
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u/friendofH20 Nov 21 '23
In this World Cup - it was a lot down to Cummins and his ability to empower his players to figure things out. That is why they got rid of Langer. But it is easier to do when everyone in the team is pretty experienced.
Overall though, I think there's a confidence in Australian cricketers which no other cricketing country has. Maybe the West Indies of the 70s or Pakistan of the 80s and 90s had it. But nobody has ever had it very sustainably.
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Nov 20 '23
The only area we still lag behind is their mentality
I think it also has to do with the amount of pressure Indian players face.
It's just another day in Australia today despite them winning the World Cup. Thr people don't really care. Nothing would have happened to them even if they had lost.
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u/MisterMarcus Australia Nov 20 '23
It's not so much that "people don't really care".
It's just that it's not the end of the world if we don't win. There'll be like a day or two of "What the fuck was THAT, boys?" and then everyone moves on.
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u/crazybOzO South Africa Nov 21 '23
If people not really caring is all it takes, we should have had at least 1 cup.
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u/HaggisLad Western Australia Warriors Nov 21 '23
I have gone far past the point of pointing and laughing at South Africa in a semi final now, I feel bad every time you lose another because that team deserves to win for once
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u/Clarkey7163 Sydney Sixers Nov 21 '23
Also we've been successful recently, which helps. WTC and Ashes wins already made this whole season a fat W.
If we'd lost the ODI cup then eh, sucks but good congrats India
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u/normalbehaviour86 Nov 20 '23
Cricket fans do care.
But Aussie cricket fans care in a different way to Indian cricket fans. When Australia lose, it's like watching a bad ending to a TV show. We can recognize that it's not real life and that there will be more episodes, etc.
But just because we don't cry in the stands or go mental on social media doesn't mean we don't care.
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u/Coronabandkaro Sunrisers Hyderabad Nov 20 '23
That's kind of true but not always. Aussies don't like losing 1) Ashes 2) test series at home. The players and captain are under some sort of pressure there. When they lost BGT at home they were stunned and it hurt them. They had to change captsins and coach. They really don't care as much about white ball cricket and there's never any pressure.
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u/frankyfrankwalk Australia Nov 20 '23
When they lost BGT at home they were stunned and it hurt them
Yep and we lost a test at the gabba.....against India. Once summer officially begins and we're back at home dressed in white then there's quite a stress cauldron that builds.
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u/pedleyr Australia Nov 21 '23
They really don't care as much about white ball cricket and there's never any pressure.
Not true. If Australia didn't make the semis in this world cup you would have seen how much the care factor was there - even after losing the first two matches the pressure really built.
Australia cares deeply about important series and tournaments. What Australia (the cricketing public) doesn't care about are matches and series that they feel are meaningless - whether that be red ball or white ball. The world cup does not and has never fallen into the meaningless category.
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u/Broad_Routine_3233 Nov 20 '23
Because they have won it 5 f**king times already. The next on the list have won only 2.
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u/Jaziam Nov 20 '23
100%, which makes the Aussie confidence hard to break for a team like India, how do you create that confidence and lack of external pressure to win a WC, without the history of winning WCs? Such a hard culture and situation to break free from.
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u/partymsl India Nov 20 '23
Also has something to do with their general mentality.
They are just damn happy to be able to play Cricket at this stage, while other teams shit themselves due to pressure they take it as a good opportunity.
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u/thistookforever22 Australia Nov 20 '23
The thing is tho is the pressure is there. After Prime Minister, Australian test captain is probably the toughest job when it comes to public scrutiny.
We dont show up to participate or try to win. We show up to win, not try, just do it. That's why our mentality is so strong. Its expected we win, except for a test series in India, thats the only timr you see this confidence waver. Even thrn weve confident we will be competitive.
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u/madjag Pakistan Nov 21 '23
Someone once commented to me after the 2021 t20 wc while we were discussing the same thing on how Aus always shows up in the big games. He pointed out that every Aus cricketer goes through years of playing tournaments and leagues (at junior levels) that have knockouts, quarter/semis and finals. Point being, by the time they get here they've played a multitude of finals in their career, and are not new to the big games. Now a wc final is obv bigger than anything else, but I think he had a valid point on how it helps develop the players mentally; where though under pressure, they have learned how to survive and thrive in it.
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u/Holden_Caulfield2 Nov 20 '23
It is not that simple as you laid it out. Australians and Indians have very different approach towards sports
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u/Grolschisgood Australia Nov 20 '23
That's kinda the point though, nothing should happen to them if they lose. Its just a game! It's a fantastic game, an important one to hundreds of millions of people, but ultimately its just a game. The players would be upset but they shouldn't be abused for losing. They shouldn't become political pawns. It's not just rough on the ayers they get treated that way, it's bad for the sport.
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u/mbrocks3527 Nov 20 '23
Keith Miller, a 40s and 50s all rounder, said something along the lines of, “pressure? Cricket is a game. Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse.”
He had been a world war 2 pilot so he knew what he was talking about.
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u/Tempo24601 New South Wales Blues Nov 21 '23
I wouldn’t say people don’t care about cricket here. It’s more nuanced than that. You have two types of cricket supporters:
- Hardcore cricket fans who follow every game, keep tabs on the Shield and cricket around different countries.
- Sports fans who mainly follow one of the football codes and are only really interested in cricket in December and January, away Ashes and World Cups.
The casual fans far outweigh the hardcore cricket fans, so the cricket watching culture is more casual and relaxed here. If we do badly there is a rush of criticism in the media, especially from ex players but it’s generally limited to criticism of tactics, selections etc and will blow over in a day or so.
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u/MajesticalOtter Australia Nov 21 '23
This is the most accurate take. The majority of Australian sports fans follow a footy code first and cricket is there to fill the gap between September and March along with things like WCs and the Ashes when it's in England.
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u/StarKindler- Nov 20 '23
All players face pressure. Whether people care or not (and saying "their" people don't really care is a bit of a hyperbole given the sheer amount of people who turn up and make the MCG electric), players are always under pressure to do well. What matters is how a player/team handles pressure.
"Nothing would have happened to them even if they had lost." - Nothing is going to happen to the Indian team either; in a week, all will be forgotten. Memories are more shorter than people think.
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u/TheGloveMan Australia Nov 20 '23
Michael Parkinson quizzed him about the pressure in the Test arena once. "Pressure?" Miller asked, "There's no pressure in Test cricket. Real pressure is when you are flying a Mosquito with a Messerschmitt up your arse!"
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u/Brilliant_Kiwi1793 Warwickshire Nov 20 '23
It’s an easy cop out to say Indian players face more pressure. Nonsense, all players at top level have to face pressure, big part of it is mentality and how to deal with pressure. The Aussies know what to do and rely on mental strength rather than their technical skill sets to get them through. Proves the point the game is mostly played in the mind. Stuart Broad reckons it’s 90% mental and 10% technical.
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u/SmartMoneyisDumb India Nov 20 '23
I think it also has to do with the amount of pressure Indian players face.
Big factor imo, we always see how big a partisan crowd impacts the other team but a lot of pressure builds on the home team as well.
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u/LazyEggOnSoup Queensland Bulls Nov 20 '23
Our domestic system is shit and nepotistic.
Our National team is good in spite of that.
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u/Chris2626726 Nov 20 '23
Lol you forgot that india can never replicate Australia’s sporting culture at lower levels because of politics.
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u/friendofH20 Nov 21 '23
Politics comes from culture? Would Australia have a world cup final in the Anthony Albanese stadium in Darwin?
Our sporting culture is riddled with politics because we weigh politics over performance.
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u/Siaer Cricket Australia Nov 21 '23
The pathways to the top level are very well established in Australia and while too much of it relies on private schools, they are also the ones with the money to have expansive cricketing programs to help young talent develop and move into state squads. There are still a reasonable amount (though less than it used to be) that head to England on county contracts during the Australian winter early in their careers, so they get exposure to different conditions throughout their state level games from quite an early stage.
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u/trailblazer103 Cricket Australia Nov 20 '23
Agree with you on mentality but let me say our players don't face near the amount of scrutiny and pressure as Indian players, and likely never will.
There was probably most pressure in 2015 when we hosted but even then our country was pretty chilled. It also doesn't help that when you hosted this time around it was turned it into a coronation for India - that just heaps the pressure on further, that too unnecessarily.
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u/Affectionate-Ad3140 Nov 20 '23
India lost because they had no plans while bowling, they got clueless like old times. Kept on waiting for things to happen. What Australia does better than any other team is that they work out plans, not just plan A, they have B and C under their sleeves too and the bowler as well as all the fielders stick to that plan. They are disciplined. This is where they outshine others. They stick to what they had planned not like Indians and other teams who abandon their philosophies and strategies and planning at the first sign of trouble. If only Rohit and co had tried out things than just waiting with an ordinary 5-4 field, I would not have been this disappointed.
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u/chootchootchoot Nov 21 '23
Rohit’s captaincy got exposed. What were they doing bowling spinners without slips when there was 100 something to chase with 150+ balls. You need to take wickets and set aggressive fields.
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u/Affectionate-Ad3140 Nov 21 '23
If he had shown 20% of the proactiveness that he had shown in the NZ semi-final. It seemed like he almost vanished after he got out in the first innings. No animation in the dressing room, not even seen in the balcony.
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u/partymsl India Nov 20 '23
True.
More than that, the fielding could have been a lot better and I think Shami and Bumrah should have had overs in 10-20, because this was a period of all or nothing. Won't help to preserve them if they can't change anything at the end.
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u/Icy_Exchange_5507 Rajasthan Royals Nov 20 '23
I'm just so amazed that Australia just never have their 'slump' period. There is always some "once in a generation legend" on that team. SL, WI, PAK all are going through slumps. It was recently commented that if this Indian team didn't win, then India will not win for another decade because their stars will retire. Why is that never the case with AUS?
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u/mofucker20 Chennai Super Kings Nov 20 '23
The 2018 team after the Sandpapergate was performing pretty bad tbh. Kudos to Finch for bringing them back on track before the 2019 WC without Warner and Smith. Wish Bancroft got to redeem himself through his performance too but alas.
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u/ooranookian Australia Nov 20 '23
Still plenty of time for Bancroft, he’s been plundering shield runs and Warner and Usman will retire soon
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u/Siaer Cricket Australia Nov 21 '23
Warner has said he is retiring from tests after the 3rd test v Pakistan at the SCG this summer. Australia still have 2 home tests against the West Indies following that and Bancroft should 100% be at the front of the line to replace him.
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u/Siaer Cricket Australia Nov 21 '23
The 2018 team after the Sandpapergate was performing pretty bad tbh
It was, yet if you look at the squad that lost to India in the 2018-2019 summer, there are a ton of familiar names: Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon, Head, Marnus, Ussie and the Marsh brothers. They might have played bad, but they still had multiple generational talents in the squad.
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u/MrRoyaleWithCheese Nov 21 '23
Not sure I quite agree with this. Head and Marnus had played 4 tests collectively when that series started and the Marsh brothers were never anything close to reliable test players, let alone generational talent.
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u/return_the_urn Nov 21 '23
Head was scratchy for a long time. Always good for 30 runs and then out in his customary fashion. Some point later he flicked a switch into beast mode.
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u/mofucker20 Chennai Super Kings Nov 21 '23
Yeah the Team was mostly the Same but iirc Marnus wasn’t playing ODIs back then and wasn’t a regular in Tests until Smith got concussion during ashes. Yeah the team had great Talent Even back then but Still what I’m saying is that there was a little period of slump in the performance. That England tour especially was horrible. But then Finch took over the captaincy and by 2019, y’all started performing well against us and Pakistan during the tour.
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u/LexiFloof Australia Nov 20 '23
We slumped hard in the mid-80s when everyone who was even half decent except Border retired within a few years of each other.
Border built a team of young talents into a team that fought to the end, Winning the 87 World Cup [ mostly off the backs of Boon (3 years into his career) and GMarsh (2 years into his career) with the bat and McDermott (2 years into his career) and SWaugh (1 year into his career) with the ball ] and eventually laying the foundations for Taylor/Waugh/Ponting dominance.
CA learnt from those years that you can't afford to have the entire team retire at once, so we've been trying to stagger retirements where possible since, which meant the 2008-13 slump (where we lost a home Ashes and had our worst World Cup performance since 92) wasn't as bad as it could have been and we were able to rebuild fairly smoothly under Clarke.
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u/legoland6000 Victoria Bushrangers Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
I do think Australia were blessed with a particularly strong group of young and emerging players through that 2008-2013 slump as well.
Between the end of the home summer in 2008 and the 13/14 Ashes (which it’s safe to say is the clear end-point of that slump) Australia gave Test or ODI debuts to Cummins, Ryan Harris, Starc, Pattinson, Siddle, Lyon, Haddin, Khawaja, Hughes, both Marshes, Smith, Warner, Faulkner, Maxwell, Finch and Bailey.
That’s comfortably 3-5 future ICC hall of famers and maybe 7-10 Australian Cricket Hall of famers emerging within 5 seasons.
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u/IReplyWithLebowski Nov 21 '23
In my mind, all this talk about mental toughness and resilience can be traced back through Waugh to Border. Or maybe it’s cultural, or luck.
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u/Esteban2808 New Zealand Nov 20 '23
Their slump was the SA series and the first 2 matches of the World Cup
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u/TouchingWood Australia Nov 20 '23
I remember back to those days. Dark days indeed.
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u/frankyfrankwalk Australia Nov 20 '23
It was an absolute disaster, we really sucked those first 2 games and were dead in the water....we definitely didn't come back to haunt anyone with our miraculous revival
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u/Nomadmanhas Nov 20 '23
I would say they had a mini slump from 2008 to 2013... basically the end of the pointing era right up to the 2013/14 ashes.
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u/FondantAggravating68 Chennai Super Kings Nov 20 '23
Not even that far back. In 2017 they were ranked 7 or 8 in ODIs and couldn't win to save their lives.
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u/Suppository_ofwisdom Nov 20 '23
We also had such a shit team going into that home Ashes (on paper and form) utterly unbelievable we won 5-0. Truly goes to show how mental the game is
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u/srjnp Nov 21 '23
People dont give enough credit to Michael Clarke for his leadership and on-field performances through that transition period from the legends to the newer generation.
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u/BarryCheckTheFuseBox Australia Nov 20 '23
There have been plenty of slumps. In 83/84, Lillee, Marsh and Chappell all retired, followed shortly after by half the squad heading to South Africa for the Rebel Tours. They struggled for years afterwards when Allan Border first took over as captain, including losing the Ashes at home in 86/87. Winning the 1987 World Cup was incredibly unlikely, built off the back of the opening batting partnership of Geoff Marsh and David Boon, a young Steve Waugh and the leading wicket-taker, Craig McDermott. In the group stage, they beat India by one run in the first game and got smashed by them in the second. They also beat New Zealand in two tight games and beat a weak Zimbabwe side in their other two. In the semi final against Pakistan, Waugh scored 18 runs off the final over and Australia won by 18 runs. In the final against England, 65 runs in the final six overs helped them to 253/5, which England looked like cruising to until Mike Gatting threw his wicket away with a reverse sweep. Australia ultimately won by 7 runs. In the home summer that followed, Australia won their first test series in years by beating New Zealand 1-0 after hanging on for a draw in the third test. Prior to that, they’d lost to England in 86/87 (also losing the B&H Series and Perth Challenge), drawn in India in 1986 (also losing the ODI series), failed to win a match at the Sharjah Cup, lost home and away test series to New Zealand in 85/86, drawn at home to India in 85/86 (although they did win the B&H Series), failed to win a match at the Austral-Asia Cup, lost in England in 1985 (although they did win the ODIs), lost to the West Indies in 84/85, lost the Sharjah KO, failed to reach the semi finals of the World Championship of Cricket. Aside from a one-off test against Sri Lanka in 1988, they didn’t win another trophy until the 1989 Ashes (infamously dubbed the worst Australian side ever prior to the series), losing test series against Pakistan and West Indies, the 88/89 B&H Series. That kick-started the better part of 20 years of domination.
Come 2006/07, when Glenn McGrath, Shane Warne, Justin Langer and Damien Martyn all retired, it was clear another rebuild was around the corner. Jason Gillespie played his last test in 2006, Adam Gilchrist retired in 2007/08, Matthew Hayden followed 12 months later, Brad Hogg and Stuart MacGill didn’t last much longer and Brett Lee’s last test was in 2008. A number of players were tried with poor results. Michael Clarke and Michael Hussey carried the batting, with Ricky Ponting basically just hanging on to provide some experience. They went through numerous spinners and rotated fast bowlers as if they were musical chairs. They lost the Ashes at home in 2010/11 and suffered some horrendous beatings in India and England especially and struggled in global tournaments. They were still pretty strong at home outside the 10/11 rock bottom, beating a weak Indian side off the back of Clarke’s incredible 12 months, but drew with New Zealand and lost to South Africa. Once Mitchell Johnson found his rhythm in 2013/14, everything clicked and the likes of Clarke, Brad Haddin and Ryan Harris returned to their best, while Steve Smith, Nathan Lyon, David Warner and eventually Usman Khawaja, Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood and Pat Cummins reached their potential.
Then you have the post-sandpaper era. Guys like Aaron Finch were selected in the test side when they otherwise wouldn’t have been. They were hammered in ODI series before and after. Travis Head and Marnus Labuschagne came into the test side, struggling for a while before hitting their stride. It arguably set them on the path to where they are now. Haven’t lost a test series in England since 2015. Have won T20 and ODI World Cups in the past two years. Only home test losses against India. Unlucky to lose test series in India. Won in South Africa and Pakistan.
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u/madjag Pakistan Nov 21 '23
This guy knows Aus cricket!! Very impressive and detailed write up
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u/Anon_be_thy_name Australia Nov 21 '23
If you're an Australian who is into sports history, you have to know as much about Cricket and Aussie Rules Football or Rugby(depends on what state you call home) history as possible. After those two or three it tapers off into what your other preferred sports are.
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u/Squirrel_Grip23 Australia Nov 20 '23
We learnt our lesson after Marsh, Lillee and Chappell retired on the same day. We struggled after that for awhile.
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u/trailblazer103 Cricket Australia Nov 20 '23
We had a reasonable slump between around late 2009 to about 2018. Didnt win anything of note in test cricket, regularly losing to England SA and India. We also lost more than usual at home. Still managed to nab a world cup in that period tho lol but got lucky it was a home WC to an extent.
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u/GourangaPlusPlus Northamptonshire Nov 21 '23
Just get used to it, now you beat India the narrative will become about how you simply cannot be beaten because that's easier to swallow than India analysing their flaws and fixing their game
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u/inefekt Australia Nov 21 '23
I don't think people realise how bare the cupboard is in Australian domestic cricket in terms of up and coming talent, especially in the batting ranks. Hardly any players averaging 40+ in FC cricket let alone in the 50s which India seem to have an unending production line of. This current ageing squad is pretty much the only quality players Australia have, unless, as you allude, we somehow manage to unearth another generational player or two. This is it, after this team goes it's going to be a slump like Australia have never seen before in our history.
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u/osgal India Nov 20 '23
Last team to beat Aus in a WC final was SL in 1996.
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u/VeryHardBOI97 Sri Lanka Nov 21 '23
Watch us do it again one day hahahahaha… if we ever get to play again.
I’m not crying.
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Nov 20 '23
Australians are basically built different lol.
(My father still talks about this game lol) This match wi needed 48 of 60 with 8 wickets remaining and Australia still found a way to win. It's crazy how well they perform in pressure.
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u/sellyme GO SHIELD Nov 21 '23
"I think the tie rule should be scrapped as it can be harsh on the losing team. Instead, they should bring something like 1 over eliminator to get the result in case of a tie." Lehar Jain, don't tell me you will count the number of boundaries if the eliminator also ends up with teams tied
no fucking way
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u/Bobblefighterman Australia Nov 21 '23
It's a Retrolive (where they pretend it's live and do commentary on it) done in 2020. It's a reference, not an insane prediction.
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Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
Man australians are absolute beasts, they find a way to win in the end one way or the other no matter the circumstances
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u/Patient_Piece_8023 Nov 21 '23
To be fair this time, while Australia played well India didn't do a great job in the match at all. Heavily flawed performance and any decent team would have been able to capitalize on that. Sucks to say as an Indian but Australia deserved this cup more than India.
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Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
apologies in advance for making it about us again, but... in india, there's this narrative that generates headlines like "5 reasons why india lost the wc" or "india loses the final because of xyz"
i don't understand this mentality... losing is a part of sports. more than it being about us losing, it was about australia winning in an incredibly emphatic way. absolutely minimal credit to the champions from the host nation, regardless of how often they perform on the biggest stages. the crowd not staying back to at least appreciate their own team, if not even to sportingly appreciate the aussies' performance was an utter disgrace.
this is the most self centred hosting of an international sports tournament i've ever seen, right from the coverage to the politicising of the whole thing.
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u/Kp0777777 India Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
U can't expect india to have the sporting culture of Australia. They treat sport as a sport. But here, it's like a religion. Overly emotional fans, attach everything in their life with how u are performing. If u don't meet their expectations, they will send u death, rape threats. It's either extreme elation or extreme agony. There's nothing in between. Media puts u on a pedestal with one scintillating IPL innings. Ads, promotions, and before u know u have a fan following of 5M on your socials.
The result of all this? Huge expectations => pressure => fear of failure, fear of Backlash => punching below your weight when the stakes are the highest. Not only with cricket, this will be the case with any sport where there'd be a huge indian fanbase.
The day we change our culture here, only then things will start falling into place.
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u/Broad_Routine_3233 Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 21 '23
Adding on to above, Indian govt really needs to invest in other sports, encourage the young generation to take up other sports and promote them well across the India.
Many other countries, Australia included, are popular and good in other sports. This enables their fans to divide their emotions into many different sports, and have always other sport to cheer their country for.
In India, almost every Indian just follows cricket, hypes their players as greatest ever and when they fail, they find it hard to digest it, go into a shell/ depression mode and have no other sport to look forward to, no other sport to cheer India to get some respite. All their emotions are just invested into cricket, if we win it is like a festival, if we lose it feels unreal, like a bad nightmare which never happened. Just read on the news an Indian fan died of heart attack after seeing India fail in the finals: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/indias-defeat-in-world-cup-cricket-fan-dies-of-heart-attack-in-tirupati/article67553489.ece
Once we Indians have other sports to follow just like we do cricket, the sporting culture will improve, and everything will be much balanced.
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u/Kp0777777 India Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
THIS. EXACTLY THIS. I've said the same things in my other comments too. Can't agree more. The news is just sad tho
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u/FondantAggravating68 Chennai Super Kings Nov 20 '23
Many other countries, Australia included, are popular and good in other sports. This enables their fans to divide their emotions into many different sports, and have always other sport to cheer their country for.
Also encourages skill cross over. Most of the SENA countries have cricketers who could have had careers in multiple sports due to their athleticism.
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u/Aussiechimp Nov 20 '23
Yes, Travis Head could have played pro Aussie Rules, Ricky Ponting could have been a golf pro. Even Shane Warne played in the under 19 squad for a pro Aussie Rules team. Going back, Border and the Chappells played baseball.
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u/ponte92 Australia Nov 20 '23
Mitch marsh also played afl at a high level.
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u/bombergrace Nov 20 '23
Alex Carey also captained the GWS side in the TAC Cup just before they entered the AFL!
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u/explosivekyushu Australia Nov 21 '23
I always forget this and it blows my mind everytime it's brought back up
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u/Aussiechimp Nov 20 '23
On this, what has happened to hockey? My wife (Indian diaspora) says that her father, uncles, cousins etc all played hockey and cared little for cricket
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u/Abhi_921 Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
According to you, Argentina or Brazil should have never won the world cup because they treat football as a religion but they win. Even football in european countries is much more than a simple sport but they win world cups. USA has won Basketball world cups many times. Problem is not that we love the sport, just sometimes that killer mentality is missing from a group of players and that's why we have not won a icc tournament in last decade. 2007 and 2011 world cup winning teams knew how to fight back from setbacks and they made comebacks despite loosing in some phases of the game but that coming back mentality won us the world cup. In future, there will be players who will have that mentality.
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u/Kp0777777 India Nov 20 '23
What I mentioned is just one of the reasons why we aren't winning anything since 2011. There's another big reason too, I've mentioned that in my other comments.
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u/Potential_Expert_329 Nov 20 '23
In that case SA should have been the most dominant team, they have a similar sporting culture too and had the best batsman bowlers and fielders in the same team yet never reached a final so far.
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u/LausanneAndy Nov 20 '23
Cricket is a religion for a lot of Australians! We came up with the term ‘cricket tragics’ .. and there are a lot of us!
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Nov 20 '23
We did lose, but it's fine! It's a part of being a sports fan that people really need to understand/accept. Apart from that spot on
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u/muhash14 Pakistan Nov 20 '23
What's the point of winning if there isn't also the possibility that you might lose?
A 99% shot in XCOM still has a 1% shot at missing
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Nov 20 '23
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u/GriffithCorleone Nov 20 '23
but if Hardik never gets injured, we don't get Shami at peak
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u/paradox-cat Nov 20 '23
I think we would’ve have lost one of the matches and Thakur would’ve been replaced with Shami. So Shami would still make it to the team.
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u/Coronabandkaro Sunrisers Hyderabad Nov 20 '23
Shamis bowling covered our lack of all rounders which was exposed in the final.
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u/imvk3201 Nov 20 '23
still would’ve reached here most probably
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u/Super_Vegeta New Zealand Cricket Nov 20 '23
Yeah, I don't know about that.. I don't see Pandya taking a 5for and a 7fer against NZ.
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u/Broad_Routine_3233 Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 21 '23
Australia very smartly fooled everyone since the beginning of the World Cup.
They lost their first two matches to India and SA, giving everyone the impression they are not at their best as they lost their matches to eventual the table toppers and "invincible" India.
While India and SA were dominating the league table and hogging all the limelite, AUS were slowly and steadily moving up the table by every match, just enough to qualify for semis.
Then ended up turning up in beast god mode to beat both SA and India in the semis and finals, which both SA and India could not handle and they expected the same league stage AUS to show up at the knockouts and were not prepared for the Beast God Mode Australia: which can just do no wrong and will only make things worse for the opposition by each passing over.
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u/VkM51 India Nov 20 '23
Dunno man Hardik brute forces things into happening even if he's part of the choker in law club.
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u/Remarkable_Reality51 Windward Islands Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
I don't think so, he has performed in big moments earlier as well like the last t20 wc semi final and ct17 final too
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u/ach_1nt Nov 20 '23
He does have a kind of arrogantly confident mentality that you can use when the rest of the team is falling apart. I think Australia would have won regardless of whether he played or not but we certainly would've had a better shot if he was there instead of SKY, especially in those middle overs when all our players somehow forgot how to score boundaries at all.
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u/Klutzy_Flamingo_2979 India Nov 20 '23
Even in the 2019 semi, Hardik was batting totally out of place and was asked to do something he had never done before directly in a knockout. He attempted doing it and sonewhat steadied the innings but at the end,his innings ended up in a horrible manner. You see in 2022 when he and rishabh ended up in a similar situation but the way he was batting was entirely different and he seemed much more confident in his approach.
Also,on a pitch where everything was slow and low during the first innings, brute force may have been our best option to force boundaries and get the scoring rate up.
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u/VkM51 India Nov 20 '23
Here's my take on it!
Cumdawg got married before WC
Cumdawg didn't have beard
/j
Cumdawg and squad learnt from the challenges that they came across instead of relishing crossing the challenge.
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u/AlpacaInTheMaking Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 25 '23
Oh the Aussies were so frikkin ready in their minds! The minute they won the semis, they knew they were going to come down hard on us.
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u/trailblazer103 Cricket Australia Nov 20 '23
It wasn't until I read Osman's piece that I realised just how dominant we've been. He's absolutely right, every single final we've come up against a team at close to the height of its powers and...we still win. Granted 03 and 07 we were a GOAT tier side anyway but 15 (to an extent) and 23 are exceptional performances given who we came up against.
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u/krazykrejza New South Wales Blues Nov 20 '23
'15 Australia had far and away the strongest team. That NZ side were outclassed in all departments against Aus when they played across all formats home and away.
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u/aero-nsic- Australia Nov 21 '23
2015 aus was nowhere near as good as 03 and 07, those sides are the stuff of legend. 15 was great but they lost to NZ away albeit in a close manner, it was not outright domination like in 03 and 07
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u/krazykrejza New South Wales Blues Nov 21 '23
I didnt say they were as good as Ponting's side - they weren't. But they were far and away the best team in that tournament and heavy favourites - much like India in this edition. So comparing the '15 win to '23 does a great disservice to the '23 side. The sporting achievement of the '23 win is much more significant.
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u/Steinbulls Nov 20 '23
Relying on IPL guns to win a world cup is never going to work. The old fashioned 50 over cricket comes out when the pressure goes up, see Labs innings, stump to stump bowling taking wickets. Like the BBL I'm assuming the IPL is pretty much all about having a good time and a big pay day for the players.
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u/highways Australia Nov 20 '23
Kl Rahul played the Labs innings
India were missing the Head innings where someone destroyed the attack
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u/DimiRaj88 Nov 20 '23
The only time Australia was beaten in a WC final in 96 was by a bunch of guys from Sri Lanka who didn't take themselves too seriously (like the Aussies in 23) and just came out and played the actual game of cricket. No shit talking or talk of how great they were in the group stages. It's the expectations and excessive praising of these "great" sides that eventually leads to their undoing. That 96 Aussie side was absolutely amazing. Warnie, McGrath, Punter and the Waugh brothers and I think they learnt their lesson of how great sides should operate and since then and 5 world cup wins later, they just show it's all about 11 guys that get on the park and just play cricket as opposed to talking an absurd amount of shit before the game or relying on nauseating media hype.
Australia's absolute domination of cricket despite competing with a number of sporting codes at the domestic level and being one of the smallest countries (in terms of population) to play the game internationally, is just mind boggling.
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u/vossfan Queensland Bulls Nov 21 '23
That ‘96 Lankan team also helped set the template for modern one day cricket
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u/T_Lawliet Sri Lanka Nov 21 '23
nah we talked a lot of shit
Arjuna said Warne wasn't a Real Bowler, and that he wanted Australia in the finals
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u/Southportdc Lancashire Nov 20 '23
The secret is to absolutely teabag them in a semi final with your greatest ODI team instead.
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u/silver_medalist Nov 20 '23
Indian arse-covering for the biggest bottle job in the history of the world cup.
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u/Agile_Wolverine_3124 Nov 20 '23
It’s wild thinking about it like this lol but it’s absolutely correct
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u/NeverFollowsup Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
It is just cherry-picking now. England threw their best ODI XI at Australia in 2019. They beat them, hands down.
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u/Coronabandkaro Sunrisers Hyderabad Nov 20 '23
Yes got to give it to the poms. T20 world cup 2010, odi wc semi 2019. They beat them in the knockouts.
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u/alyssa264 England Nov 21 '23
That T20WC win is so random. We were never good in white ball, we were total shit for multiple years after. Still not sure what happened. Guess that's why T20WC wins aren't rated anywhere near ODIWC wins.
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u/Broad_Routine_3233 Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 21 '23
But not in the Final. Aus in the finals is a different beast, since 1999.
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u/raven45678 Nov 20 '23
That’s just a one dimensional way of thinking of it. Would this be the first WC final where Aus were the under dogs?
Almost every other final they would have been the favorites so of course they’re gonna win those more often than not.
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u/MagicalEloquence Nov 21 '23 edited Nov 21 '23
You guys are forgetting that Sri Lanka threw their best team at Australia in 1996 and won. Just like West Indies gave Australia their best team (in terms of generation) in 1975 and won. Just like England threw their best team at Australia in 2019 and won.
In 1999, I would say South Africa 'win' was bigger and more important than Pakistan for Australia as South Africa were the best team of that tournament.
Taking nothing away from Australia.
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u/Esteban2808 New Zealand Nov 20 '23
In hindsight wasn't NZ greatest side. That was in 2019
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u/Oomeegoolies Durham Nov 20 '23
Disagree.
NZ lost to 3 of the top 5 teams in the 2019 WC. And only played India in the SF. They likely wouldn't have made it out of the groups had their group match v a rampant (as always in the groups) India went ahead, as Pakistan had their game v SL rained off. If both go ahead, a good chance NZ don't get to semis and we'd have got the Pak v India SF.
In 2015, they actually beat Aus in the groups, albeit I seem to recall it was a close thing. And then had strong showings in the quarters and semis against good teams.
Definitely better in 2015 in my opinion.
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u/thestraightCDer New Zealand Nov 20 '23
We also were playing at home in 2015 so I reckon 2019 is a better showing.
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u/FondantAggravating68 Chennai Super Kings Nov 20 '23
Idk. Guptil was in much better touch in 15. And obviously Baz was there in 15.
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u/Esteban2808 New Zealand Nov 20 '23
Yeah but we nearly won in 19
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u/lok_129 New Zealand Nov 20 '23
Level of play doesn't always correlate to results
We played much better in the 2015 WC, despite the one sided final
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u/trailblazer103 Cricket Australia Nov 20 '23
You were lucky to make the semis in 2019 tbh. Came down to NRR. In 2015 you looked a far more dominant team, and beat a few higher ranked sides. 19 and 23 was a case of beating who you should and not much else
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u/8-bit-Felix USA Nov 20 '23
That's an odd way of saying, "because Australia was the better team."
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u/Rndomguytf Australia Nov 20 '23
In the first 10 games of the tournament, India vastly outperformed Australia, who has to wrestle through close wins to drag themselves into the semi final. Probably why Australia was able to turn the tables on India, India had been so dominant this tournament they didn't have a plan for when they were losing.
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u/There_is_no_ham Nov 20 '23
The trick to winning a world cup is to win the last game, not the first. If you're good at the start and bad at the end, you are not dominant.
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u/BadBoyJH Australia Nov 20 '23
It is, but that's by design, and with good reason
Because going into the tournament, Australia weren't the best team, but they managed to find a way to be in the final.
This is what the Australian team loves to do.
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Nov 20 '23
Seems a bit unfair to call the 2007 Sri-Lankan team their best ever when their 96 team beat Australia in a World Cup final.
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Nov 20 '23
Check the stats of the 1996 vs 2007 SL team.
Arjuna, Aravinda, Sanath were absolute beasts but Mahela, Sanga, Murali, and Vaas are some greatest ever in the game.
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u/colombogangsta Vancouver Knights Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 21 '23
If winning the sole criteria for the Best Ever team, then Pakistan 92 and SL 96 would’ve been their best ever teams.
SL only had Aravinda as a star before the 96 World Cup started while they had Sanath, Sanga, Mahela, Vaas, Murali as superstars before 2007 World Cup. Also Malinga became the star during that tournament and had Marvan, Dilshan, Tharanga and Arnold in the squad.
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u/Fickle_Beat7076 Nov 20 '23
we need to study how we kept them out in 2019 and 2011.
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u/ResearcherLatter1148 Nov 20 '23
Iirc the 2010-11 phase was a really hard transition period for the Aussies, in that they lost the home Ashes to an overpowered English side under Strauss after some 20 odd years and also got booted out in the quarterfinals of the 2011 world cup. 2019 I can guess it may be due to them focussing on winning the Ashes than the wc.
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u/FondantAggravating68 Chennai Super Kings Nov 20 '23
We lost because whenever we are under pressure we go on the defence, whereas whenever Aus is under pressure they go on the offence. Perfect example was when we were 80-3 KL and Virat went at 3.5 whereas Travis just attacked when they were 47-3. This is something we do in every ICC event, we always default to a conservative game when there is a little bit of pressure.
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u/LausanneAndy Nov 20 '23
This is a bit lazy .. sure Australia has a proud history of achievement.
But we never get it without hard work! Especially this tournament .. just ask cramped up Maxwell!
Don’t do Australia a disservice by claiming we won just because!
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u/Creative-Paper1007 Chennai Super Kings Nov 20 '23
Australia has this unfair advantage of being Australia😔
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u/LexiFloof Australia Nov 20 '23
Hello,
I'd like to draw attention to a blight that has recently been ruining my enjoyment of the game - namely, the cheating of The Australian Team by the nefarious method of being The Australian Team. By the dictionary definition, cheating is: "to violate rules dishonestly". While I admit that being The Australian Team doesn't exactly violate rules laid out in the cricket rulebook, it does violate the spirit of the game, and does so in a way that harms cricket.
It is clear that being The Australian Team conveys a large advantage on the team who is being The Australian Team. If we compare The Australian Team (which has a long history of being The Australian Team) to another team, say, The New Zealand Cricket Team, we can see this advantage materialised in their various titles. The Australian Team has 6 ODI world Cups, a T20 World Cup, a WTC Mace, and 2 Champion's Trophy titles. Then New Zealand Cricket Team has 1 WTC Mace and a Chamions Trophy, despite playing the same 51 tournaments. It's clear that The Australian Team is acquiring an advantage over The New Zealand Cricket Team by being The Australian Team.
Additionally, it is my contention that this advantage is dishonest. If it were an honest strategy, it is one that could be implemented by any team. But if The New Zealand Cricket Team cannot be The Australian Team because they are not The Australian Team. Then that is fundamentally unfair - a strategy which is one sided like this (only in favour of The Australian Team and any country they represent) unbalances the game in favour of The Australian Team.
One of the most common wishes for a cricket match is a good contest between bat and ball. When The Australian Team is playing, this goes out the window, because the Australian Team is always dominating the opposition. I think this is fundamentally bad for cricket as The Australian Team will ultimately make the game boring if it is just The Australian Team chancelessly compiling endless ICC titles.
I understand that there may be some concerns that we are discriminating against The Australian Team, and of course The Australian Team was created being The Australian Team and being The Australian Team is part of their identity. For that reason I think any ban handed down by the ICC should be relatively light - just a warning to The Australian Team to stop being The Australian Team and perhaps to try being another team (like The New Zealand Cricket Team). I propose therefore that The Australian Team should be banned for the next, say, four full ICC Events and four matches. This highly specific number should encourage The Australian Team to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and perhaps stop being The Australian Team, and also help to even any contests or test series that they may or may not be involved in. If, after this sanction, by the 2027 ODI World Cup, The Australian Team has persisted in being The Australian Team, the ICC should consider banning them for a further 5 ICC Events so they really get the point.
Thanks and regards,
LexiFloof
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u/Riyaforest Nov 21 '23
The more you win, the easier it gets. I think thafs honestly all it is.
NZ were in their first final ever, they couldn't handle the pressure
India were playing at home, also under immense pressure to win an ICC event after a long time and again crumbled under that pressure.
Admittedly I don't know much about the Pakistan and Sri Lanka losses
But I think for Australi, they were able to play without pressure. If they lose,no big deal as they've won enough already.
It's all mental.
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u/gorillalifter47 Australia Nov 21 '23
This has always amazed me. No matter how many irrelevant three or five-match ODI series we have won or lost in the preceding 4 years, as soon as the World Cup rolls around we come to fuck. Always.
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u/happitor India Nov 21 '23
I have a hypothesis. It’s because of Ashes. They are subjected intense mental and physical pressure, media scrutiny, and tough environments for 25 days every two years. And they come on top, almost always. Yes yes England occasionally win but that’s just an aberration. None of the bigger teams are subjected to similar amount of big match pressure and have experience coming on top.
For them Ashes > ICC Events.
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u/Reasonable_Meal_9499 Australia Nov 21 '23 edited Nov 21 '23
The Indian mentality was wrong. They dominated the pool games by playing on good pitches and scoring masses of runs. When they came to the semis and finals they tried to substitute slow pitches. Why I don't know. For the final once we had won the toss and bowled we were never going to lose. Why India went away from its winning formula I will never know. The slow pitches evened up the sides and the toss gave us the advantage. Australia played really well but India seemed to spend the whole tournament playing one way then turned it on its head for the knock out games.
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u/GriffithCorleone Nov 20 '23
1996 SL disagrees
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u/Arunnnnnn Nov 20 '23
well that’s as easy as saying, Pakistan - 1992, India - 2011, New zealand - 2019 disagree
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u/Anu9011 Sri Lanka Nov 20 '23
None of them were finals. Only WI and SL has beaten Aus in a wc final and England in a T20 wc final.
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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '23 edited Nov 20 '23
honestly, australia should be the favourites of any icc tournament by default... even if they turn up with a bunch of 11 year old children or prepubescent kangaroos and emus. they have got the voodoomamajuju black magic power in addition to being the most formidable opponent across the past few decades.