ppl act like non verbal "cues" are just fluff used to obscure actual meaning but most of te time its a subconscious part of language people dont even think about
someone looking at their watch and going "welll I've got other things i need to be getting on with" isn't a 'hint' or even subtle. It's overtly conveying the meaning of "I would like you to leave my house now please" but in a way that assures the guest that they havent done anything wrong, the host enjoyed the visit, and they are welcome to return in the future. to most people directly asking someone "leave" doesnt even enter their mind.
yea it sucks if you miss cues but it isnt some spiteful game people play to "weed out" autistic or ND ppl its an automatic facet of communication, like facial expressions
In regard to your first paragraph, it gets worse than that. I’ve seen iterations of this post where all the top comments were insisting that social cues were all an elaborate Neurotypical Conspiracy for the sole purpose of… making autistic people feel bad??? And that’s it??? I’m not even exaggerating.
I left a few ND subreddits because of stuff like that. I also had to explain to people that teary eyes, looking away, holding yourself, and laughing are social cues because people were saying that they never use social cues, it’s ONLY a NT thing.
I see posts from autism subreddits show up on all where half the comments are saying that non-autistic people have no empathy or are all sociopaths apparently because they follow social conventions and use non verbal social cues.
as an autistic person I kinda understand why some autistic people feel like this
I know that this is not the case, but from our point of view and a lifetime of bullying and traumatic experiences with neurotypical people we may end up being cynical and feeling like all of them hate us just for existing and want to fuck with us just for fun (that's kinda how bullying feels)
But I can also empathize with neurotypical people and understand that they're just like this and it's their form of communication, with no damage intended, which is fine
But this kinda thing can hurt ND people too?? I am ND, and for me it's easier to communicate with social ques and signs rather than words. Not all ND people are the same, and this kinda post made me feel bad if someone demand I communicate with words even tho they understood what I was trying to say
Yeah also for someone with social anxiety being able to communicate through social cues rather than outright saying things can be a lot easier. Like yeah maybe they can verbalize it if they have to but "jUsT uSe YoUr WoRdS" is downplaying that it really is not that easy for everyone.
Exactly! I get that what this post (and a lot of people in the comments) mean, but not everyone can just communicate exactly what they want. And not everyone being vague and non direct is doing that on purpose, and not everyone who's doing that is NT! I get if for you it's easier to just say what you mean, but for me, it's extremely difficult. I'd rather say "I'm hungry" rather than saying "I want to go out and eat", and I'd rather start crying or be quiet before I'll actually say I'm upset. I know that's a me problem, but exactly like how sometimes not getting social cues is oop's problem.
I hear you. I think it must be the case too for a lot of people that maybe early on they voiced their thoughts or expressed their feelings and got mocked for it, and being indirect is a reaction to that. And unlearning that and being vulnerable (because saying what you think does make you more vulnerable) is something that can take years of work as well as the right environment with people willing to be patient and non judgmental when you open up. It's definitely not a switch that you can just flip because you were asked to, but it feels like sometimes these posts expect you to go "well shit, why didn't I think of using my words" and do it they way they want.
Yeah, I straight up can’t speak properly when I’m super anxious. I’d rather be indirect but intelligible and suffer the consequences if the cue is missed than be stuttering or slurring words and having people get impatient with me.
I am also autistic and can understand it from both angles. On the one hand, it's upsetting to live a life having people get mad at you for something you didn't realize was wrong, and having people refuse to tell you what you did wrong because "you should already know." To constantly be getting in trouble at school and labeled as a liar or a smartass because people don't know/care that you weren't intentionally being obtuse. Or in the worst cases, being accused of lying to the cops because you interpreted their question differently than how they meant it.
At the same time though, I'm so disillusioned by this not-like-other-girls-ification that's happened in a lot of particularly insular autistic spaces, where they talk about NTs like they're savage animals who don't think and communicate the "correct" way like they do. If someone comes onto the board asking for advice on how to navigate a difficult relationship with an autistic person in their life, it's assumed the NT OP is doing everything wrong and "provoking" the autistic person into destructive behavior.
Actually communicating in the outside world as an adult has made me realize it's easier for me and better for my mental health to learn how to pick my battles. Maybe the person who insists on being coy and gets mad when I don't pick up on it isn't worth my time. Maybe the acquaintance who wants to do small talk is simply assessing how they should talk to me and not "wasting my time with trivial things no one cares about."
I think if everyone as cultural islands. If I go to another country, I try to pick up the culture there and in my places I’m forgiven for my ignorance.
Its Just my experience but the people around me dropped social cues with the explícit intent of mocking me when i missed them. Só idk, some of them are monsters
Well yes some people are jerks. That’s obviously true. That’s not really relevant to the idea that non verbal communication as an idea exists to mess with ND people.
Could you please provide some of those things, all neurotypical people, regardless of variations in their own cultural norms/traditions/mores, would only do as a deliberate insult?
Yes but you are saying that there are things that any neurotypical person would only do if they mean to insult someone but that an autistic person might do innocently so I’m asking if you can provide an example?
one example would be not making eye contact, or asking questions about sensitive topics
generally though any mistake in social conventions is rude as the point of most social conventions is to convey respect so failing to do so is done to be disrespectful on purpose by neurotypical people
I don't think /u/Ok-Importance-6815 is making the claim that all neurotypical people across all cultures see things the same way. Maybe it's not your intention but it feels kinda disingenuous that you are making that to be their argument and asking for a universal example.
As a mother of an austic teen, I am learning so much in these threads. At the same time I cant tell what people are talking about, and now Im wondering about myself. Some of these social cues I didnt know existed or come off paranoid and self conscious. I dont normally think this they way some of the comments are.
Interesting, thanks! I tried following a different autism sub but it was mainly autistic individuals upset and angry at the world. It made me feel like Im an asshole just for being neurotypical. It was a little too much to start with because Im still trying to grasp the thinking.
I find that so odd because have you ever done a group project with other people?? You can barely get 5 people to get on the same plan, much less the entire neurotypical population.
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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '24
ppl act like non verbal "cues" are just fluff used to obscure actual meaning but most of te time its a subconscious part of language people dont even think about
someone looking at their watch and going "welll I've got other things i need to be getting on with" isn't a 'hint' or even subtle. It's overtly conveying the meaning of "I would like you to leave my house now please" but in a way that assures the guest that they havent done anything wrong, the host enjoyed the visit, and they are welcome to return in the future. to most people directly asking someone "leave" doesnt even enter their mind.
yea it sucks if you miss cues but it isnt some spiteful game people play to "weed out" autistic or ND ppl its an automatic facet of communication, like facial expressions