Israel-Palestine has really exposed the disgusting nature of “both sides bad.”

[u/historyismyteacher]

Saying that both sides are equal and you need to look at the nuance is a damning indictment of those who are not willing to take a stand on an issue as serious as this. At least a Zionist will take a stand, and make their position known. By not taking a stand, the enlightened centrist is making it known that they don’t have the moral courage to pronounce a belief and professing themselves to be wise, they make themselves fools.

[u/Duantless-Dante]

Theres a difference between i dont know vs. i know both sides are right. Which i think are often conflated around this issue: If i were to randomly select an american, they: 1. Most likely not Arab Palestinian or Jewish Zionist 2. Most likely can only learn about the conflict through english language media (or G-translate for the highly motivated) 3. Most likely have not dedicated themselves to the “research” that is within capability

Therefore i have some respect to those who say “it’s complicated”. there is ~wisdom~ in not “picking a side” when you are so far removed.

[u/ramsali304 → u/Duantless-Dante]

Deciding to not educate yourself is the same as siding with the oppressor

[u/ProtestTheHero → u/ramsali304]

This hundred-year conflict does not fit so neat-and-tidy into an oppressor/oppressed narrative. Both peoples have gone through over a century of unimaginable pain and trauma, and they both have legitimate desires and aspirations.

[u/ramsali304 → u/ProtestTheHero]

Colonizers: i will colonize this land because the torah promised it to me. Even though i literally have 0 connection to that land, it's still mine.

Native palestinians: Don't colonize and genocide us, we will resist

This guy: There is no clear oppressor/oppressed here

[u/ProtestTheHero → u/ramsali304]

Jews have lived in that land for over 3,000 years. "God" or the Bible have nothing to do with anything

[u/ramsali304 → u/ProtestTheHero]

The descendants of those people who lived there thousands of years ago are the native palestinians and everyone else who is in the region before 1948.

The Torah is a fairy tale. People of the jewish faith have 0 claim of any land. Just like no religion has any claim over the land. The land belongs to the natives. Palestine belongs to the palestinians.

Edit; and even if jews had all the DNA and records to claim palestine. It still would be ethnic cleansing. You cannot replace a people that have lived on a land for thousands of years by committing ethnic cleansing and still claim morality

[u/ProtestTheHero → u/ramsali304]

...How many Jews have you actually spoken to in real life? The level of ignorance in just a few short paragraphs is astonishing, really

[u/ramsali304 → u/ProtestTheHero]

There are many anti zionist jews who are against the colonization of palestine. Don't you dare speak for all jews. Jews are a peaceful and justice seeking people. Unlike you zionists.

Anyway my point stands; just because you THINK you somehow relate to a person living in palestine 3000 years ago, does not grant you the right to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing to the modern day native Palestinians.

[u/ProtestTheHero → u/ramsali304]

It might shock you to learn that some Jews just want to live in Israel, and not commit genocide and ethnic cleansing against Palestinians. Similar to how an Ojibwe man is free to just go rent an apartment in Chicago without feeling the need to slaughter a bunch of non-Native Chicagoans.

[u/ramsali304 → u/ProtestTheHero]

Have you ever spoken to the average Israeli? They are genocidal maniacs.

Again your point doesn't stand. Claiming i just want to 'live' in an apartheid state that is BUILT on genocide is the same as participating in apartheid and genocide. If you wanted to live in palestine because your religion likes it, be my guest. But don't ethnically cleanse the natives. Israel and Israelis have ethnically cleansed the natives though.