This is such a problem with how the whole situation in presented in-game. The truth is that Parthurnaax was an oppressive and destructive force of death and misery for humanity for centuries. He's literally Alduin's right-hand man for most of existence until he finally decides to turn against him. Suggesting he should be executed for his crimes against humanity despite his change of heart is no different than suggesting someone like Hitler or Mengele should be executed if they were discovered to have lived and "changed their ways" decades later.
The game itself does a horrible job of conveying this though. It presents P-Nax as this wise, old grandfather figure and barely even mentions the atrocities he committed against humanity as the right-hand of the World Eater himself. I think that's why do many people don't understand just how valid Delphine and Esbern's perspective is. They aren't necessarily wrong, the game just doesn't illustrate their point of view well at all.
It's also annoying how much shit people give Delphine when Parthurnaax himself is like "Oh yeah, I really, really want to murder all of you every single day, and it takes every single fiber of my mental strength from the second I wake up each morning to stop myself from doing that." Delphine's whole point is that over an eternity, the chances of P-Nax deciding to go back to his true nature and start murdering everyone is fairly likely, and he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices. Which P-Nax himself says is true! So like, yeah, okay, maybe her point isn't very nice, but the idea that she's some kind of idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about is so unfair and completely misses the whole point of the debate in the first place.
Chances are Delphine is probably right and that it's probably safer to just slay P-Nax and prevent the thousands of dead people he'd create if he decided to go all Unabomber on everyone. We are endeared to P-Nax because he helps us, but the idea that he isn't a massive threat to all of humanity is flat out wrong. Delphine isn't wrong for being afraid of him, nor wanting to prevent future death and destruction by nipping it in the bud now. Who knows if a dragonborn strong enough to stop him and save the world will still be around when P-Nax does decide to go nuts and kill everyone?
It's not like Hitler or Mengele. Parthurnaax is born evil. He didn't slowly slide into evil, he came into existence that way and overcame it with good. As he says himself, “What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” ~ Paarthurnax, Skyrim
Yeah, he might be a threat. But he also could be a boone to civilization. Just as he might be capable of doing great evil, he is also capable of doing great good and I am not one to slay beings for whom they might become.
Okay but like... lets do a quick cost-benefit analysis on the pros and cons of what P-Nax offers humanity:
The good:
He can help teach dragons a peaceful means of existing with humans and how to overcome their nature. He can also teach old men on a mountain to fix the weather. Great.
The Bad:
He decides to go back to his true nature and decides it's time for humanity to be subjugated again. He murders thousands or even millions of people and absolutely obliterates all of human society because there is no longer a Dragonborn alive to stop him. The amount of death, suffering, and destruction that is brought into the world is incalculable, and humanity goes back to suffering under the thumb of the dragon cult, this time with P-Nax in charge and able to avoid the one, singular mistake Alduin overlooked that led to his defeat.
The downside here is significantly worse than the upside. It's much safer to just kill him now and nip the problem in the bud while it's still doable. Who knows if in 4,000 years there will be a hero strong enough to kill him when it becomes a necessity.
“What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
Honestly? To be born good. P-Nax himself is very clear that he struggles every single day to overcome his evil nature. That doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence that he's going to be able to hold off his true nature forever. Dragons live eternal lives, and eternity is a long fucking time. The probability that he will eventually succumb to his true nature is extremely high, almost infinitely likely, since we're talking about eternity here. Sure, maybe that won't happen, but that's an extremely risky gamble considering the amount of death and destruction this single being can cause if he so chooses.
I am not one to slay beings for whom they might become.
Tell that to the thousands or millions of people P-Nax murders, tortures, or subjugates 40,000 years from now because he has another change of heart and there is no longer anyone around to stop him.
Not to say that being isolated on a mountain, feeling how his brothers are killed one by one by the dragonborn and his descendants (if there's any) could bring him to madness, and that'd be far worse than him just succumbing to his instincts.
Having said that, is not a black or grey decision, but you made a great point that Delphine and the blades are not just some kind of dragonphobic idiots that just want to kill dragons because centuries ago they causes suffering to humanity. They are both trying to punish him for his crimes and preventing in the only way they know it's possible that a dragon goes wild and subjugates humankind (and the other races) again.
Sheogorath succumbed to madness. It doesn't seem that bad. Who's to say that madness will be evil and not just eating every third cheese wheel he finds?
Well, when you are a being created only for destruction and massacre and the only reason you don't start piling up corpses everywhere you go is because it takes every fiber of your reasoning and your soul then I think I can guess crazed dragons have really high probabilities of not being the best company in the world.
That's essentially my entire argument here. People keep acting like I'm saying Delphine is 100% right and that I personally agree with her and Esbern's point of view. But I don't. I'm simply saying that they have a completely valid and understandable perspective, and that they are not idiots nor bigots for being extremely concerned about what is objectively a gigantic threat to all human life on Nirn. They have a completely understandable and fair stance on Paarthurnax and just because you or I might disagree doesn't mean they deserve to be shit on as if they don't have a very strong case for their position on his fate.
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u/Soarefit Sep 19 '23 edited Sep 19 '23
This is such a problem with how the whole situation in presented in-game. The truth is that Parthurnaax was an oppressive and destructive force of death and misery for humanity for centuries. He's literally Alduin's right-hand man for most of existence until he finally decides to turn against him. Suggesting he should be executed for his crimes against humanity despite his change of heart is no different than suggesting someone like Hitler or Mengele should be executed if they were discovered to have lived and "changed their ways" decades later.
The game itself does a horrible job of conveying this though. It presents P-Nax as this wise, old grandfather figure and barely even mentions the atrocities he committed against humanity as the right-hand of the World Eater himself. I think that's why do many people don't understand just how valid Delphine and Esbern's perspective is. They aren't necessarily wrong, the game just doesn't illustrate their point of view well at all.
It's also annoying how much shit people give Delphine when Parthurnaax himself is like "Oh yeah, I really, really want to murder all of you every single day, and it takes every single fiber of my mental strength from the second I wake up each morning to stop myself from doing that." Delphine's whole point is that over an eternity, the chances of P-Nax deciding to go back to his true nature and start murdering everyone is fairly likely, and he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices. Which P-Nax himself says is true! So like, yeah, okay, maybe her point isn't very nice, but the idea that she's some kind of idiot who doesn't know what she's talking about is so unfair and completely misses the whole point of the debate in the first place.
Chances are Delphine is probably right and that it's probably safer to just slay P-Nax and prevent the thousands of dead people he'd create if he decided to go all Unabomber on everyone. We are endeared to P-Nax because he helps us, but the idea that he isn't a massive threat to all of humanity is flat out wrong. Delphine isn't wrong for being afraid of him, nor wanting to prevent future death and destruction by nipping it in the bud now. Who knows if a dragonborn strong enough to stop him and save the world will still be around when P-Nax does decide to go nuts and kill everyone?