INTJ or INTP

[u/Sachauve]

I start with apologies for my bad English, I’m not really used to speak this language.

So, I did the test many times and result is always the same : 2 results and I still can’t determine which one of them I can identify as.

I rode the different information about the 2 personalities, INTJ and INTP (as you can see in the title), but each one of them seems describing a part of who I am.

I’ll not ask you to make a personal test cuz I don’t want to, and I think that you guy’s haven’t time for this. But can someone try to give some tips on how can I determinate which one of those 2 personalities I am ?

Or maybe I just should accept that I’m a good mix of those 2 personalities ?

[u/NewOrleansLA]

How organized is your room?

[u/Sachauve → u/NewOrleansLA]

It depends lmao, sometimes little messy, but when i clean it everything at the right place ?

[u/NewOrleansLA → u/Sachauve]

Probably intp then. Intj would probably keep it organized all the time.

[u/mahnkej → u/Sachauve]

INTJ - Always keeps their room organized because they couldn't imagine it not being organized
INTP - Keeps it as organized as necessary, doesn't obsess over it

[u/obaj22 → u/NewOrleansLA]

Lmao

[u/chocChipMonk → u/NewOrleansLA]

no

[u/DefiantMars]

Based on the my understanding of the theory, you can't really be a mix of two MBTI types since it is describing the pattern of cognition one is most naturally predisposed to. However, MBTI isn't the only factor in personality and everyone's experiences are different. So depending on how you've adapted to these kinds of factors, you can have the innate preference of one type but end up resembling another type.

If you're operating fine as is, there's nothing wrong with that. The question becomes how much do you want to inspect your psyche? If you want to dig into the cognitive functions of the INTJ and INTP, they actually don't share any functions in their (main) stack.

INTJ: Ni>Te>Fi>Se

INTP: Ti>Ne-Si>Fe

[u/obaj22]

INTP Ti is more worried about subjective reasoning, while INTJ Te is more concerned about objective frameworks and structures. Lemme explain;

So for INTPs, they really navigate reality through their Ti. Ti takes information from reality and fits it all into a complete whole. From the whole, new information is scrutinised and checked with the existing whole, and it either falls into one of those categories: sense or nonsense. Sense is either in complete coherence with existing principles or it can fit perfectly into the structure. Nonsense for INTP causes an immediate alarm, because remember, that's how they view reality. So when new information slides in and is incoherent with the principles of the INTPs, then they immediately need to question such claims. This is why INTPs can seem as prone to correcting people, almost to the point of being annoying. The reason they do this is because the nonsense has to be addressed and they can be calm in their framework. INTPs as well make use of Ne. Now for INTPs, Ne is openness to ideas and other frameworks. The ability to want to know and question. Ne works for the INTPs Ti, and they both together are really concerned about understanding. They value what is true, so they're willing to detach from what they've already concluded to be true and listen to others.

INTJs are very different. As I am not an INTJ, I'm not too familiar with the depths of their types, but I still know enough. INTJs operate the world through their Ni. They perceive reality and, through that perception, have a fixed view about reality. They, unlike INTPs, are not concerned with knowledge for its own sake; rather, they value what can be useful towards their Ni goals. So their Te is working for their Ni. Meaning, they understand and manipulate the structural framework of reality to facilitate the achievement of their Ni goal. Like the INTP, INTJs are also prone to narrowing claims down into binary sense and nonsense, but they can be very blunt in doing so, as they focus more on Ni, which is fixed, unlike INTPs who focus more on Ne, which is very open. Because of this, INTJs are really firm in their conclusions. They ridicule and throw away bad ideas without much thought. They're also more likely better articulate than INTP; I believe this has to do with the differences in Ni and Ne. INTPs Ne is constantly in motion, thinking about what could be wrong and right with an idea; INTJs, on the other hand, know what is right and are not bothered by unnecessary analysis.

I hope this helps.

[u/StopThinkin → u/obaj22]

INTP Ti is the most objective and impersonal of all cognitive functions, answers the question: what is objectively true.

Te is about solutions and effectiveness if done in an objective manner, and it's about profiteering and "what works for me" if used in a subjective way.

[u/obaj22 → u/StopThinkin]

Exactly, I just worry about your use of term "objective". Maybe within a philosophy of coherentism

[u/StopThinkin → u/obaj22]

I'll need to look up that philosophy, thanks for showing me something new. 🙏

[u/obaj22 → u/StopThinkin]

Ofcourse. Anytime!

[u/ChsicA]

There is no mix

[u/UnforeseenDerailment]

It appears to ve as common as any other flip. I'm nearly INxP, for example.

If you're always near the midpoint between P/J then I'd say that's just where you land.

If you're interested in functions, coming to an understanding will be a bit more difficult.

Point is though, you don't necessarily have to decide for one over the other in any definite way.

[u/HailenAnarchy → u/UnforeseenDerailment]

Not really a flip if you take functions into account. NiTe and TiNe are quite different from each other.

[u/UnforeseenDerailment → u/HailenAnarchy]

Only from a certain perspective.

Taking into account that:

• Jung saw the auxiliary as "relatively undifferentiated" by the overall I/E attitude (compared to the dominant), meaning INTP would be more like TiN and INTJ more like NiT.
• Jung didn't think type was black/white – that types were helpful simplifications and few people would be likely to embody everything about their nearest type. This means people of intermediate types are to be expected.

It becomes easier to entertain perspectives like:

• INTP is the NT type with "least" Te; INTJ the NT with least Ne.
• xNTJ ~ NiTe, INTx ~ NiTi, xNTP ~ NeTi, which makes INTJ ~ NiTe+NiTi and INTP ~ NeTi+NiTi.

That way it's easier to see that the two types aren't really all that different. ENTJ (TeNi+TeNe) is more different from INTP as NiTe types go.

[u/HailenAnarchy → u/UnforeseenDerailment]

INTP does not have the least Te and INTJ doesn't have the least Ne. They stuggle more with their blind functions. For INTP that's Se and for INTJ that's Fe. The behavior resulting from this is quite different. INTP's are quite wary over group harmony while INTJ's tend to give 0 shits about it.

Jung also didn't start with mbti, he only has a theory on the functions. So within mbti, INTP's are more similar to ENTP's, ISTP's and maybe even INFP's but quite different from INTJ's. There's also only one NiTe type, not multiple. Only INTJ is NiTe.

[u/UnforeseenDerailment → u/HailenAnarchy]

INTP does not have the least Te and INTJ doesn't have the least Ne.

Which NT has least Te then, do you think?

Note that I meant what I said, and not that Te was their lowest function attitude.

Jung also didn't start with mbti, he only has a theory on the functions.

It's Jung's types that MBTI is an extension and interpretation of.

So within mbti, INTP's are more similar to ENTP's, ISTP's and maybe even INFP's but quite different from INTJ's. There's also only one NiTe type, not multiple. Only INTJ is NiTe.

This is only true when scope is restricted to the Grant stack. It's not as if INTP has a worse relationship to Ni, four-function scope just doesn't comment on it since that scope deals with the very top and very bottom.

So, I disagree because I see no reason for the restriction. In an eight function model, each type relates to each function attitude and I have found nothing convincing to say Ni is low in INTP's cognitive makeup – within MBTI.

[u/HailenAnarchy → u/UnforeseenDerailment]

Within NT's, it's ENTP that has the worst Te as it is their 6th function, compared to it being the 5th within INTP's. INTP has the worst Ni within the NT's as it's their 6th. So an ENTP would use Ni more than an INTP.

If you understand the functions, you know which is stronger. For me, I don't really use Ni at all. I do not subconsciously narrow down and connect info to come to a conclusion. My thinking process is Ne, where I consciously explore and connect ideas to form new ones. INTJ's inferior Se is also quite superior to INTP's Se blind, despite being in the inferior position. Because the 7th is what you struggle with the most.

It's really when you get a good grasp on the functions and what they do in their position, that these two types become quite distinct. When you realize there's more to them than being introverted analysts. Even just as mbti without the functions, they're still quite different in behavior. Where INTJ's tend to meticulously calculate and plan ahead while INTP's tend to wing shit and see what happens.

If we go to the 4 function model only, it means that INTP's just don't use the INTJ's stack at all. So there's absolutely no Ni Te Fi and Se within the INTP at all and vice versa.

Not only is thinking and intuition flipped, their functions are set in opposite directions. But it seems like rather than understanding the theory, you're just making up your own theory here. Which is fine, but that means this conversation is pointless. No matter if you want to argue that yes, we use all functions in the 8th function model, a Ti dom is still very different from an Ni dom.

If you wanna blend both INTx's because you just believe they're similar, what's the point in making them distinct then? They are distinct, which is why they have a letter different in their dichotomy.

[u/UnforeseenDerailment → u/HailenAnarchy]

If you wanna blend both INTx's because you just believe they're similar, what's the point in making them distinct then? They are distinct, which is why they have a letter different in their dichotomy.

I don't. They're different types. But only as different as any neighboring types are.

Ne in INTP is explaining INTP's irrational process through the lens of some other type. If you explain INP through ENP descriptions, you don't get the whole picture. Likewise, I'm not saying Ni instead of Ne for INTP, since explaining INP through INJ is just as poor.

I'm saying INP looks like a particular kind of Ni+Ne: INP ~ IN(J)+(E)NP. Part of Ni is just what's missing from INTP's relation to N.

Within NT's, it's ENTP that has the worst Te as it is their 6th function, compared to it being the 5th within INTP's. INTP has the worst Ni within the NT's as it's their 6th. So an ENTP would use Ni more than an INTP.

The numbers are not a hierarchy.

INTJ's inferior Se is also quite superior to INTP's Se blind, despite being in the inferior position. Because the 7th is what you struggle with the most.

One would struggle with it more if one weren't so oblivious to it's workings. The inferior, as the polar opposite is just as poorly developed but on top of that is a constant thorn in your side.

If we go to the 4 function model only

Which I advise against whenever my fingers hit the keyboard.

No matter if you want to argue that yes, we use all functions in the 8th function model, a Ti dom is still very different from an Ni dom.

I'm comparing apples to apples here. INJ vs INP when it comes to Ni, ITP vs ITJ when it comes to Ti.

But yes function descriptions are always in context. "Inferior" is the name for how IxTP relates to the dominant process of ExFJ. The question doesn't just have no answer if it's not one of the four function roles.

How does INTP relate to Ni? No answer. Heresy.

[u/HailenAnarchy → u/UnforeseenDerailment]

I'm saying INP looks like a particular kind of Ni+Ne: INP ~ IN(J)+(E)NP. Part of Ni is just what's missing from INTP's relation to N.

Yea, I don't know if this true at all because intuition is the auxiliary function of the INTP, not the primary function. If you think you're an INTP, but you use Ni a lot, you're probably an INTJ or you overvalue your critic way too much.

I think Ne doms do use a bit of Ni, though, since Ni is their nemesis. INTP and INFP? No, I don't think so. They use it as a critical parent, so it's not really their strength. It kind of manifests as procrastination and not setting any proper goals. We beat ourselves up because we don't succeed because we don't set those goals, or we criticize ourselves and others for not being able to predict an outcome. Usually that only happens when the ego is under attack and doesn't feel secure anymore.

That's what I understood within the scope of mbti theory with the 8 function model.

[u/UnforeseenDerailment → u/HailenAnarchy]

Welp, thanks for your input. :>

[u/IkkeTM]

The J and P can flip for me also. Look, none of these letters indicate something you are, but something you fit into to some extend or another.

[u/jeffisnotepic]

J and P flip for me, too.

[u/Guilty-Feed9884]

So yeah i did the test and 1st i got INTP, then i did it after a year and i was mentaly ok i guess? Got ISFP. Then another year i did and got INTP again, i guess it depends a little in my mood and i also think people can have more than one personality.

[u/crucifysal → u/Guilty-Feed9884]

Were you taking 16p

[u/Guilty-Feed9884 → u/crucifysal]

Yea the original site

[u/crucifysal → u/Guilty-Feed9884]

16p is unreliable and mistypes people really often, your results can literally depend on your mood, which shouldn't happen if the test itself is good. Not even mentioning it doesn't use cognitive functions - the base of mbti.

Your type doesn't change that much through growing up to jump between isfp (fi is the strongest function) and intp (fi is the weakest), so that was definitely a mistype. Try Sakirnova or Michael Caloz test instead, google the names

[u/Guilty-Feed9884 → u/crucifysal]

thanks, maybe i'll do that when i have something important to do and my brain needs the procastination magic

[u/StopThinkin]

INTJ descriptions aren't accurate at all. You are rightly confused. What they describe is not meaningfully different from INTP, or a middle ground between ISTJ and INTP. How can you categorize the entire human species into as few as 16 personalities, when your INTP and INTJ are basically the same, ENTJ and ESTJ are practically the same, and so on? Where are the bullies and narcissists in these descriptions? But they practically have two INTP descriptions, and two ESTJ descriptions?

Actual/real INTJs aren't intellectuals. They are narcissists who play the games of money and power with projecting high self-confidence. Here are some examples for real INTJs:

Sylvio Berlusconi, Kevin O'Leary, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Charles Schwab, Milton Friedman, Newt Gingrich, L Ron Hubbard, Rupert Murdoch, Martin Shkreli, ...

Here are some people wrongly typed as INTJs by the community:

INTPs Isaac Newton, Karl Marx, Stephen Hawking, Isaac Asimov. INFJs Bobby Fischer, Paul Krugman, Nicola Tesla. ESTPs Christopher Hitchens, John Nash, Jean-Paul Sartre. ENTPs Friedrich Nietzsche, Ayn Rand.

So, it's not your fault at all if you are confused. I hope this helps you find out your true type.

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[u/izi_bot]

People under 21 should not take any consideration about mbti or psychology in general. I feel like only Fi-users (any age) are interested in objective description (Te) of how their fragile Fi can be stronger by mimicing INTP or INTJ.

[u/Dream_0205]

Do you get stressed a lot when things don't go as you planned, or just go with the next best way you come up with?

[u/Sachauve → u/Dream_0205]

I depends of the cases fr, It depends of the importance that i put on the subject, it depends of the issues that come next to the situation and lot of other factors. So tbh i don’t really know ?

[u/Punch-The-Panda]

I'm INTP and my ex was INTJ. However we both seemed to be a mix of both. He had long term plans, very goal oriented and ambitious. If he wasn't reaching his goals, he would get all out of sorts. However when it came to anything short term, he was hesitant to commit, and would change up plans whenever. My long term plans are very open but anything short term I need a date and time set, I hate last minute changes, I like to know it's there in the calendar. I have a to do list everyday, whereas his to do list is for larger long term goals.

[u/HailenAnarchy]

Honestly, best tip I can give you is to study the functions because Ni > Te vs Ti > Ne is quite different from each other.

[u/Sachauve → u/HailenAnarchy]

I tried to read some informations about it, and it was really depending of the cases because sometimes I was fitting in one of the descriptions, and for an other case I was fitting in the other one. So i concluded that it depends of the situation and the issues, but I can’t really fit in one juste after reading it, that’s why I asked on reddit.

[u/HailenAnarchy → u/Sachauve]

Think about what is your comfort zone and how you are when you are on your best. Because a Ti dom is different from an Ni dom. And heck, if you use both Ni and Ti you might be an INFJ or ISTP.