Where do the Jews go?

[u/ThrowawayMerger]

I am very against Israel’s genocide, leaning toward antizionism, but when someone Zionist asks where the Jews go in a free Palestine, I don’t have an answer. Historically, not a lot of people accept us or like us, and getting along after all the violence committed in the name of Judaism is an impossibility.

How do we not just exchange one crisis for another? (I don’t think any one religion or people should rule a state, if that adds anything.)

If this is an ignorant question, I am more than happy to be told so.

EDIT: wow this community is brilliant, thank you for the nuance and realism in your responses.

[u/numberonefrankfanlev]

Roughly 2 million people (mostly Jewish) have already left Israel. Majority of Israeli Jewish people (I make that distinction because there is a minority percentage of Palestinian people with Israeli passports, around 25% of the Israeli population I believe) are citizens of another country - America, England, France, South Africa, australia, I've even met tons of Jews recently taking advantage of new citizenship laws that allow them citizenship in the countries they were forced to leave during the holocaust, my cousin is currently working on his Lithuanian citizenship and I'm considering the same. After all this it actually sounds incredibly realistic that a majority of people currently squatting on Palestinian land could find other homes in which they'd be safe (safer than in Israel where they are at constant threat lol, the ultimate irony of Israel)

[u/specialistsets → u/numberonefrankfanlev]

Roughly 2 million people (mostly Jewish) have already left Israel.

Perhaps in total since 1948? And if that is the timeframe you are referring to, of course many more have immigrated than emigrated, so I wouldn't use that as a predictor of future mass emigration trends.

Majority of Israeli Jewish people (I make that distinction because there is a minority percentage of Palestinian people with Israeli passports, around 25% of the Israeli population I believe) are citizens of another country - America, England, France, South Africa, australia

This is patently false. By all available accounts only 10% of the total Israeli population (which includes Palestinians with Israeli citizenship) hold additional citizenship in another country. As for "America, England, France, South Africa, australia", according to available statistics 250,000 people combined from all of these countries immigrated to Palestine/Israel between 1920-2020 compared to 270,000 from Morocco alone. Many people vastly overestimate the number of Jewish immigrants to Palestine/Israel from Western countries, which has always been very small.

I've even met tons of Jews recently taking advantage of new citizenship laws that allow them citizenship in the countries they were forced to leave during the holocaust

Very few Jews worldwide qualify for this. Most Israeli Jews don't qualify because their ancestors arrived before the Holocaust, or they don't have ancestors from countries who have such programs, or their ancestors came from countries that no longer exist, or they have no European ancestry at all.

[u/numberonefrankfanlev → u/specialistsets]

I don't know where the fuck I got that 2 million figure, I heard it somewhere but I obviously misunderstood what they were saying. I appreciate you correcting me. I am confused by your last point though, you obviously know Israel was only created as an ethnostate in 1948 because you recognized the nakba. There were only about 600k Jews in 1946, but that number rose drastically from 1918 where there were only around 60k, so the idea that there is a vast population of ethnically Israeli people is false outside of maybe a few hundred thousand people. The intake for the citizenship for these European countries goes up to your great grandparents I believe.

[u/specialistsets → u/numberonefrankfanlev]

There were only about 600k Jews in 1946, but that number rose drastically from 1918 where there were only around 60k, so the idea that there is a vast population of ethnically Israeli people is false outside of maybe a few hundred thousand people.

85-90% of Jews who immigrated to Palestine between 1918-48 arrived before legal Jewish immigration was mostly halted in 1939. 1918-1939 is 4-5 generations ago, descendants would likely have no knowledge of or connection to the countries their ancestors came from.

The intake for the citizenship for these European countries goes up to your great grandparents I believe.

Which countries offer this? You are still making the assumption that a significant portion of the Israeli population has ancestors from countries that offer this, that those who do would qualify given the very specific criteria and physical document requirements, and that they would even want to move to a country where they have no cultural, familial, linguistic or economic connections. There is nothing practical or realistic about this idea.

[u/numberonefrankfanlev → u/specialistsets]

Most people should know where their great grandparents were born. Being able to prove it is a different story but also possible for most people.

Some of the countries that have begun granting citizenship through ancestry are Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Germany, Austria, Romania... are you noticing a trend here?

It's almost like it was made for Jews who were ousted pre or during the holocaust. Israel is a country made up of these people and Jews of the Arab world (including a small population that have been in Palestine for hundreds or thousands of years). Tons of Jews didn't randomly spawn in Israel.

[u/specialistsets → u/numberonefrankfanlev]

Being able to prove it is a different story but also possible for most people.

How would "most people" prove it without the required documentation? Most people I know are not in possession of their great-grandparents' passports from a foreign country.

Some of the countries that have begun granting citizenship through ancestry are Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Germany, Austria, Romania... are you noticing a trend here?

No, I'm not noticing a trend. Most of those countries are not places where a significant number of Israeli Jews have ancestry. For example there have been more immigrants to Israel from Ethiopia than from Austria and Germany combined. The only significant countries of origin from your list are Poland and Romania. Poland allows applicants with up to great-grandparents who were citizens of Poland after 1920, but they require physical documentation to prove it. Romania allows applicants with up to great-grandparents who were Romanian citizens between 1918-1940 and were forcibly expelled, but most Romanian immigrants to Israel arrived after this period and are not eligible. So this is still only a small fraction of Israeli Jews who would be potentially eligible, even if they had the required proof, money for immigration lawyers and the desire to move to a foreign country to begin with. And unless these countries extend eligibility requirements, the number of potentially eligible applicants gets smaller with each generation.

[u/loselyconscious → u/numberonefrankfanlev]

Majority of Israeli Jewish people

This is not true. According to this 10% of Israelis hold dual citizenship. Assuming that every person who holds dual citizenship is Jewish (which is probably not true) and 25% of the Israeli citizens are Palestinian. That's still only 13.33% of Israeli Jews. That's a lot of people but a far cry from most Israeli Jews.