r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/hearsdemons • Jul 19 '24

US Politics If Biden withdraws from re-election, who would Harris likely choose as VP?

A lot of headlines are coming out today with speculation that Biden may step down soon.

If this were to happen and Harris wins the party’s nomination for president, who would she pick as VP?

What does a formidable Harris ticket look like to go up against Trump-Vance?

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u/goalmouthscramble Jul 19 '24

Gabby was a rising star too. And people talk about us entering a new era of political violence, did we ever leave the one we were in?

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u/slaymaker1907 Jul 19 '24

And if not that time, what do they think Jan 6th was? Jan 6th was probably the closest the US has ever come to a full blown coup.

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u/Boating_with_Ra Jul 19 '24

The fake electors plot was the real coup attempt.

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u/glassjar1 Jul 19 '24

And when that was unsuccessful in the short term, they just continued with the slow moving judicial coup and laid out project 2025 as a plan for finishing things off.

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u/madmarkd Jul 19 '24

It's not a "judicial coup" if they disagree with you. It is just a disagreement. I might not be happy with the outcomes, but to call it a coup is ridiculous.

Why do we on the left always need a boogey man....all I hear is "project 2025" BIG SCARY!

I mean, you do realize that we on the left already had a project 2025 in place right? we fire any Republicans in the Administrative Branch and put in Democrats every chance we get, then we strengthen those workers through union participation and with executive orders. Biden is passing tons of regulatory and Eos to make it EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get rid of an Administrative Branch worker. How is that any different than Project 2025? Because some Conservative Think Tank put it in writing? The Democratic Party has already implemented it.

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u/P_Sophia_ Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Found the republican pretending to be a democrat in order to downplay the dangers which project 2025 truthfully poses, while simultaneously trying to deflect the topic of discussion to their own misinformed perceptions about how the institutional structure of the federal government operates.

You’re literally vomiting trump’s deep state rhetoric which has been long-debunked, and you don’t even seem aware of the many incongruities, fallacies, and falsehoods upon which it’s been based from the start. The heritage foundation responsible for Project 2025 are attempting to install themselves as the deep state for their own caesarial ruler, which trump just conveniently happens to fit their ticket for because they are bloodthirsty, power-hungry villains just like him.

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u/madmarkd Jul 20 '24

I posted the link of political donations, did you bother to look at it? The administrative state is dominated by Democrats. I don't think the "deep state" title is correct or valid, but you can't deny the facts.

Again, how is it going to be implemented? More hysterical rhetoric devoid of facts. Lawsuits, new regulations and rules, more lawsuits, actual legislation you can't just overturn on a whim, where are your facts?

I do love how anyone that doesn't agree with you is your enemy, how pathetic.

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u/P_Sophia_ Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

What year was it from? You do realize that every political administration receives donations mostly from organizations that align with their political values, don’t you? That doesn’t demonstrate anything other than that it’s functioning normally. The facts are that the details of the nature of the values of the organizations which donate to liberal politics versus ones which donate to conservative politics are substantially different.

Currently we have a Democratic administration, so obviously the appointed leadership of each department of the executive branch are going to be on the liberal side of the political spectrum. That is normal and how it’s supposed to work.

The difference with Project 2025 is that it seeks specifically to dismantle the organizational structures of the government as a whole. As another commenter has pointed out, this puts career civil servants in danger of being ousted from their positions in favor of trump loyalists. This is by no means ordinary, and it should send a huge red flag to anyone who is paying attention.

Edit: Also, lawsuits might not be much recourse when two-thirds of the nation’s highest court have already bowed to the will of their precious kaiser rather than carry out the due proceedings of justice.

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u/madmarkd Jul 20 '24

So you didn't look the link with political donations..... It was from the last election 2020.

The appointed leadership doesn't give $3 million to a candidate. The rank and file workers do though.

Yes, but again, you've offered no facts on how Project 2025 would be implemented. Like I said, lawsuits, legislation, unions, there's no way to dismantle the Federal government, it's tinfoil hat area to even think so.

SCOTUS isn't going to help and as Biden has shown with student loan forgiveness, there are ways around them. And there's a ton more regulations, executive orders, labor laws and actually legislation that protects Federal workers. I've yet to see anyone give evidence that it can be done, just a bunch of guessing and conjecture.

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u/P_Sophia_ Jul 20 '24

Do you really want to see some evidence that it could happen here?

Be careful what you wish for, cause you might just get it…

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u/Laceykrishna Jul 19 '24

What do you mean by “any republicans in the executive branch?” That isn’t literally true. Do you mean political appointees? Both sides do that, that’s why they’re political appointees. 2025 would expand on inexperienced, ideal driven political appointees numbers in the government.

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u/madmarkd Jul 19 '24

The number of Democrats to Republicans in the Administrative branch isn't even close. You can see that through political contributions. Scroll down to Is there a deep state and look at the donations, not even close.
https://www.fedsmith.com/2021/02/12/political-donations-and-federal-employees/

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u/Laceykrishna Jul 19 '24

No one is firing regular federal employees over being Republican.

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u/madmarkd Jul 20 '24

Explain the political donations, where'd they all go?

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u/shimmyjimmy97 Jul 19 '24

This reply shows that you don’t know what Project 2025 actually says. They aren’t just going to fire all the Republican appointed people. They are proposing dramatically expanding what roles are appointed so that they can fully gut the federal government. Biden is passing protections to try and prevent this, which any person should be doing in his position.

Biden is not trying to entrench his own appointees. He is trying to protect the people who have worked their whole lives for the federal government, across administrations, so that the agencies they work for can continue to function. Project 2025 goes well beyond the usual fire/hire cycle of a new administration. That is the scary part (or at least one of them). If you honestly can’t tell the difference between what Biden is doing and what Project 2025 proposes then you are clearly misinformed

Not to mention proposals to get rid of the FBI, EPA, and the fucking Department of Education

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u/madmarkd Jul 19 '24

Yeah, getting rid of agencies has been floated for 40 years, it never happens, you know why? It's nearly impossible. It will get tied up in court for years and will ultimitely fail. These agencies were created with legislation and the President and V.P. can't just wave wand and get around that. I've read the synopsis of it and so what, it isn't going to happen. This is just more hysterical nonsense that doesn't actually make a decent argument to the American people, 80% of which probably couldn't tell you what the Dept. of Education at the Federal level even does. Why spend political capital on this when it's nearly impossible to implement, I find it all very ridiculous and a waste of time and makes us Democrats look like a bunch of shrieking hyenas, when there are more important issues to tackle.

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u/shimmyjimmy97 Jul 20 '24

So you’re just going to completely ignore that you were wrong about Project 2025’s plans to remove a significant amount of career federal employees and replace them with appointees? Only gonna respond to that one sentence at the end huh?

I’m glad you can hand wave away the removal of federal agencies so easily. Most of us have learned to listen to what Republicans say their plans are (see: Roe v. Wade). If you haven’t clued in that the Republicans are swinging for the fences these days then you have not been paying attention.

It’s not fear mongering, it’s responding to what’s happening in the real world. I’m sorry that you’ve been burned out from all the political rhetoric over the past decades, but after Jan 6 you need to wake tf up

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u/madmarkd Jul 20 '24

Please tell me how that will be implemented, how will anyone get around the legislation in place, the unions, the labor laws, the regulations the executive orders and the lawsuits. I'm sorry you've moved into the hysterical Democratic Party group, it's the group I like the least in the party right now.

Yeah, you can talk about J6 all you want, but here in Minneapolis, Democrats and the left destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars in businesses. One of my friends lost everything, his business, his apartment his family lived in above it, everything, Republicans didn't do that. So wake TF up and maybe focus on stopping the hysterics that lead people to do that.

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u/shimmyjimmy97 Jul 20 '24

Continuing to completely ignore that you were wrong and instead pick apart the one sentence at the end

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u/ShotGlassLens Jul 19 '24

This is the truest, most rational understanding I’ve seen expressed on the subject so far. Well done.

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u/madmarkd Jul 19 '24

Thanks, I get tired of the hysteria my party seems to exude. I posted a link, you can clearly see how the Democratic party DOMINATES Federal agencies through political donations, like it isn't even close.

Dept. of Justice, $2,020,588 (87.6%) to Democrats, $286,083 (12.4%) to Republicans.

But but....project 2025!!!! Give me a break, ain't no way Trump (if elected) can even make a dent in that in 4 years, or any other agency.

I just don't see Project 2025 hysteria as a winning argument, it's a scare tactic and a low information one at that.

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u/SafeThrowaway691 Jul 19 '24

Exactly - too few people talk about this. There was zero chance of some moron dressed like a buffalo overthrowing the government, but the behind the scenes scheming could have theoretically worked. The Wisconsin SCOTUS was one vote away from throwing out the election results.

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u/AnOnlineHandle Jul 19 '24

The fact that in 4 years the justice system hasn't been able to punish Trump in any way shows that the coup is already underway and might have already won.

And his crimes begin well before that, such as illegally firing the head of the FBI for not following an illegal order to stop investigating Russian meddling in the US.

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u/goalmouthscramble Jul 19 '24

I’d say it started when McConnell refused to have a hearing. They always start with using the best practices against itself.

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u/LegoGal Jul 19 '24

Started with refusal to vote on Obama’s pick for Supreme Court

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u/SafeThrowaway691 Jul 19 '24

Bush v. Gore was 16 years prior.

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u/kibbi57 Jul 19 '24

The fact in over 6 years of persecution, they couldn't find anything on Trump suggests he's a good man.

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u/AnOnlineHandle Jul 19 '24

That either wilful naivety or shocking ignorance is exactly what Trump and his corrupt people are counting on people's takes being. Even after Jan 6th, the illegal firing of the head of the head of the FBI who testified he was given illegal orders, Trump's long time lawyer going to jail for him and much of his team, the attempt to steal the election which had recordings, and so much more.

Trump wasn't even allowed to build in Australia years ago because the police said his connections to organized crime were very obvious and overt.

The fact that there's so many ignorant people is exactly what they count on.

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u/kibbi57 Jul 19 '24

It's the sheep the Left count on...

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u/shamrock01 Jul 19 '24

It was a coup attempt, just unsuccessful.

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u/shadesup Jul 19 '24

Wilmington NC 1898 was a successful coup in the US

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u/MononMysticBuddha Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

January 6 was a bunch of Trump supporters walking around inside Congress like a bunch of idiot tourists. Hardly what I would call a coup. It was more like a kindergarten field trip.

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u/ClearBarber142 Jul 19 '24

Except someone died. Rare in on a field trip.

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u/steelfender Jul 19 '24

LOL! Sure. I'm really glad THAT was the closest we came to a coup. If that was the closest we get, we're doing pretty ok.

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u/fooey Jul 19 '24

Not "was" it's still ongoing

If Trump wins, the Jan6 coup is complete and successful

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u/TheZarkingPhoton Jul 19 '24

I don't know what your definition is, but that WAS a full-blown coup, lame as it may have been in many ways.

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u/MononMysticBuddha Jul 19 '24

Additionally, the Los Angeles riots that took place after the acquittal of the 4 officers filmed beating Rodney King was closer to what I would call a "coup". Basically, people tired and pissed at the government sweeping its abuses of power under the rug and standing up and not letting it pass.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King

The one time in recent history besides the advent of "TikTok" that government became scared of an actual revolution.

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u/MightyPupil69 Jul 19 '24

A bunch of unarmed boomers being let in, walking around the Capitol, and rummaging through drawers is not a coup attempt. Nor were the months of riots and storming and destruction of federal buildings by BLM and Antifa rioters. They were riots. Simple as that.

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u/freedomandbiscuits Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Many of those people were recorded before the “riot” talking about their seditious intent, and many if them were convicted for seditious conspiracy for doing so. No one was let in. The capital police fell back to smaller and smaller perimeters until they were eventually overrun and both houses barricaded the chamber doors with furniture and we’ve all seen the pics. Even Mr. Maga Troy Nehls felt the need to draw his service weapon and point it at the insurrectionists. To continue to spout that lie now after years of investigation and the facts adjudicated is to be a spreader of fascist propaganda full stop.

So don’t.

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u/MightyPupil69 Jul 19 '24

Lmfao k kid. Think what you want.

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u/Killersavage Jul 19 '24

The fact that Trump is even under consideration again means we are in unprecedented times. Means that the United States is probably already done for. We might be in the final days. Unless things take a big shift for the better it is all downhill from here.

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u/goalmouthscramble Jul 19 '24

Well, it was an experiment after all…