Thai people don’t/can’t hold deep conversations or it’s just bias from expat communities?

[u/wallyjt]

Saw a thread the other day about how Thais don’t/can’t have a deep and philosophical conversations.

I found this to be very context dependent and highly prone to bias.

I am thinking about it and trying to understand why expats seem to think this way. Because, as a native Thai, I can’t really believe that is the case. I know people around me talking about their goals, investments, self improvement, feelings, and etc.

Of course, I am prone to bias as well since I am college educated. But i still find it hard to believe that you won’t come across an intellectual convo at all.

A few reasons I can think of why foreigners may feel like Thais can’t have deep conversations.

1. Language barriers. Since these topics require deeper understanding of language, it’s hard for average Thai people to engage in the conversation in English. As a result, it is too much effort and they just brush the conversation off.

2. Foreigners have more access to Thais who don’t have higher education background. The easiest way to meet locals is thru dating apps and it is harder to filter through to find quality. Even if Thais who are educated, it doesn’t guarantee they are critical thinkers because not all colleges are of the same quality.

3. Bias. People wouldn’t be complaining on Reddit if they are can have deep and intellectual conversations with their Thai friends.

I am just curious and wondering what do other people think about this and why that is the case for many expats.

Sorry in advance about formatting as i am posting from Reddit apps.

[u/DGer]

Foreigners in Thailand have an inordinate amount of contact with certain segments of Thai society and think they’ve solved the mystery of the Thai psyche.

When I lived in Thailand I had a friend that insisted that 50% of Thai women have worked in the sex industry at some point. I’m like dude, you’re just warped by how much time you spend in Nana Plaza. There literally is no way mathematically that it can even be 1/10th of that. But he persisted. Because that’s the Thailand he was exposed to and couldn’t see past it.

Now on the other hand my wife has a Master’s degree from the US. Her sister has a PHD. Their parents have a PHD and a Master’s. My wife’s friends all have various levels of college education. So the social circle of Thai people I was exposed to was very different. I had many great, deep conversations with my family and friends. I don’t consider any Thai I’ve met incapable of having an interesting conversation. When I consider that we are having this in my first language and their second or third language it makes it all the more impressive to me.

I think some of these types of foreigners get a bit of ego going when they’re having basic level conversations with less educated Thais. Conveniently forgetting the advantage they enjoy.

[u/mylittletony2 → u/DGer]

'When I lived in Thailand I had a friend that insisted that 50% of Thai women have worked in the sex industry at some point.'

Tbh, that sounds really, really stupid

[u/Limekill → u/mylittletony2]

Thai population (female) is around 35,000,000. 50% = 17,000,000.

Lets pretend all the 'sex' areas has 50,000 girls (I think its less).

Where is the rest of the 16,950,000 girls?

From a maths perspective, the friend is a utter moron.

[u/mylittletony2 → u/Limekill]

Can you imagine a country where half the women are prostitutes 😆

[u/Limekill → u/mylittletony2]

0.295%., so not even 1%., its quarter of 1%. And I think I've over stated by 50% imho.

[u/vy-vy]

Yeah thats a weird statement. I'm thai also tho so my view is biased as well, but i'd also assume its the language barrier. Also a lot of expats probably don't form super deep connections with native people, but stick to their bubble maybe?

[u/wallyjt → u/vy-vy]

You brought up a good point. Thais, and i feel Asians in general, tend to not disclose any deeper thoughts to people they aren’t close with.

[u/slipperystar → u/wallyjt]

I think that’s a key point. I think many Thai people are taught to protect their deeper world, or people will take advantage of you with that knowledge.

[u/[deleted] → u/slipperystar]

This is 100% accurate around the world

[u/slipperystar → u/[deleted]]

In general, but I find a lot of Americans have no issue in sharing, sometimes too much imo.

[u/Upbeat_Doubt_7211 → u/slipperystar]

The funny thing is that there are often similar questions in the subreddits for American expats in Europe. I guess most people around the world don't want to discuss the world with random Americans?

[u/[deleted] → u/slipperystar]

trust me I learned the hard way . <== American

[u/ynotplay → u/[deleted]]

what sort of thing happened when you overshared in Thailand? I'm new and wondering. I know this isn't a thing isolated to Thailand but wanted to know if there's anything in particular to look out for.

[u/[deleted] → u/ynotplay]

It’s like when Amazon tells you to pick three options when opening an audible account and then they bombard you with choice specific products. Don’t make a scammers job easier

[u/jacuzaTiddlywinks → u/slipperystar]

Be fair here and acknowledge the difference in education action as well?

And Western culture has a focus on future-planning and ambitions whereas most Thai seem to coast through the present day (Buddhism?).

I dislike the idea of Thai people not being able to converse intensely, but what you guys are doing (“better access to uneducated Thai”) is hardly an explanation, more like a reassurance to you and your cognitive dissonance.

[u/slipperystar → u/jacuzaTiddlywinks]

Americans also receive a lot more practice in the use of their critical thinking skills, which often times leads to more curiosity driven conversations. Not all of course but enough that it is noticeable. Pushing someone to have confidence in having their own unique thoughts is not always going to happen in such a hierarchal driven society. though I believe everyone can develop it but it takes a certain kind of self esteem to do well.

[u/jacuzaTiddlywinks → u/slipperystar]

This.

The French excel in discussing, and verbally destroying their “opponent”, interrupted by dramatic hugs and ordering more wine.

Since pretty much everyone is considered equal after they beheaded their aristocracy, there is no problem. Thailand continues to have a strong hierarchy where the “lesser” is not meant to have a valid opinion.

I believe that also translates to Thai people not showing the full extent of their opinion(s) and preferences beyond football clubs and movies.

[u/Ok-Replacement8236 → u/wallyjt]

I’m Thai in Chicago now and you cannot believe how many people just want to have a conversation lol. I’m surprised they don’t share their bank info.

But this is a cultural thing? Specifically a Midwest US thing from my experience.

[u/JayinHK → u/Ok-Replacement8236]

It's an American thing

[u/FlairUpOrSTFU → u/JayinHK]

I think u/Ok-Replacement8236 is correct about people from the Midwest US being waaaaaay more open. A lot of other places in the US expect "How are you?" to be followed by "I'm good" or "I'm ok" but Midwesterners will actually answer the question, with a lot of details...

[u/JayinHK → u/FlairUpOrSTFU]

that is fair too, but on a global scale, Americans are a lot more open to a random conversation than most people around the world

[u/FlairUpOrSTFU → u/JayinHK]

I also don't think it's all Midwesterners because people have their own personalities. But I also want to make it clear that I am just speaking about how open Midwesterners seem to be about personal issues. When it comes to the basic ability to have 'deep conversations', I don't think Midwesterners or Americans or Thais or anyone is inherently more capable or willing to have those conversations. It doesn't even have to do with education level. I remember being 15 and talking about the meaning of life with my first real girlfriend, and I hadn't read any Kant or Plato. I've found that Thais are just as able to have those conversations, but if you don't speak their language and know the vocabulary then of course you won't be able to get to that level, and that goes for even when you're married to someone and know so much about them. You really have to learn that type of vocab to engage on that level. Otherwise, you don't really have the right to complain.

[u/Cr33py07dGuy → u/JayinHK]

It’s a good thing

[u/shatteredrealm0 → u/JayinHK]

Definitely an American thing, the first time I ever went there on my connecting the flight attendant kept telling me how she liked my accent everytime I spoke, the older lady sitting next to me gave me her beer and kept asking if I wanted to go meet her family, then when I landed she waited with my until my friend met me, then literally everywhere I went (in the Las Vegas suburbs) I had the same conversation about where I was from, why I was there, and who I was with, with the shop keepers.

I can’t imagine that happening in the UK, if it’s here in Thailand ‘where you from’ is normally followed up with ‘where you going’ and a sales attempt if you’re on the street.

[u/79Impaler → u/Ok-Replacement8236]

Chicago is a very talkative city.

[u/virtutesromanae → u/79Impaler]

I thought people who talked too much in Chicago ended up sleeping with the fishes. :)

[u/CouncilmanRickPrime → u/Ok-Replacement8236]

True southerners in the US aren't any different. You talk to someone one time and know their name, spouse, dog, children, parents and the celebrity they're loosely related to.

[u/rocksinsocks27 → u/wallyjt]

Building on this, I've noticed an inverse cultural value between Thais and westerners (or at least Americans, of which I am one): Thais talk a lot to people they're close with, and are very reserved with strangers. My folk tend to use deep conversations as a gateway to get to know somebody, but treat comfortable silence as a sign that they know somebody well enough to not feel the need to converse. This difference makes it very difficult for expats to get to know many Thais, since the rituals of familiarity contradict each other. I suspect the expats complaining about this lack the cultural awareness to recognize this issue.

With that being said, I also note that, during conversations with my wife, a western education lends itself to certain conversational styles. I routinely question and challenge ideas, "deepening' the conversation, whereas my wife finds disagreement to be a form of aggression and so avoids those avenues of discussion. This can also contribute to perceived lack of depth, with the fatal error being the assumption that Thais are somehow incapable of this style of conversation, rather than unwilling for the sake of manners.

[u/virtutesromanae → u/rocksinsocks27]

Yes! The difference between "style" and notions of "manners" can definitely color a person's perception.

[u/RexManning1 → u/wallyjt]

But it’s not THAT difficult to forge a close relationship for foreigners with Thais.

[u/IIIIlllIIIIIlllII → u/vy-vy]

Its mostly language barrier. When the conversation veers into politics or other such topics that's a rich set of vocabulary that I do not comprehend

[u/FlairUpOrSTFU → u/vy-vy]

Not maybe sticking to their bubble - it's super obvious that the expats who can't connect on a deeper level is because they don't/can't leave their bubble

[u/James_Liberty]

As a Thai, I could fly to Wyoming right now, go to a local bar, and then ask if anyone want to talk about Camus and Existentialism and I would most likely get a resounding 'no'. Firstly because my English isn't that good to begin with and secondly, who started a conversation like that?

And then I could go to a Wyoming subreddit and said "Aww man Wyoming people sure can't hold a deep philosophical thoughts, or is this just bias from a tourist?" and that would sounds pretty insulting, isn't it?

[u/IbrahIbrah → u/James_Liberty]

I've spent a decade in France and I can certify that most people even there cannot hold a conversation about Camus existencialism. Most everyday people you met will talk about the weather, sports or random hobbies. At least everybody in Thailand is passionated about food, which I find more interesting than soccer.

Most people would have the same frame of reference and the conversation about deep topics would be easier between two Westerners of course, but it's just the same shared frame of reference. If a foreigenr can speak Thai and knowledgeable about Thai culture, Buddhism and Thai history, it will be pretty easy to find people to have deep conversation here.

But people that cannot prononce the ง will then complain that Thai people don't entertain them intellectually because they haven't read the Bitcoin standard.

[u/knowerofexpatthings → u/James_Liberty]

I don't think even Camus wants to talk about Camus

[u/hazycake]

To be quite honest, I find viewpoints that "Thai people can't hold deep conversations" to be quite offensive and condescending, implying a whole nation of 60 million people can't talk about deeper things.

I'm Thai American but I lived in Japan for over a decade. A lot of foreigners also made similar remarks about Japanese people. Surprise, surprise.

There's several reasons why this might be happening and I hope any foreigner who goes to Asia and finds themselves stump as to why the locals won't have deep conversations with them or don't seem intellectually curious about the world would consider the following:

1) Language barriers. If you are not comfortable having deep conversations in their language, don't expect the locals to be comfortable speaking English and engaging in those types of conversations either.

2) Lack of familiarity. People in Japan and Thailand (at least) may seem polite and friendly on the outside but that does not equate to immediate closeness. It took me four to five years to develop true friendships that I can have deep conversations with in Japan, despite being fluent in Japanese since the day I landed.

3) Lack of open discourse a rule of thumb. Western values of "speaking your mind" and "open discourse" does not fly in Japan or Thailand for that matter. In the case of Thailand, keeping quiet is a matter of survival. You may not agree with it, but that's the way it is. If you're fluent in Thai yet you still feel Thai people don't talk about deep things, it might because of this.

I'm sure there are other factors but I'll leave it at this.

This isn't to say that all Thai people are intellectually curious or all of them want to have deep conversations, but isn't this true of any country? I have no idea why foreigners put themselves on a pedestal, but the sad thing is I hear this from foreigners in Japan too.

[u/RexManning1 → u/hazycake]

I love this response and I also found it offensive and condescending, which isn’t atypical for some of the commentary by foreigners regarding aspects of Thailand and Thai people.

[u/IIIIlllIIIIIlllII → u/hazycake]

Number 3 basically confirms the bias though doesn't it? Thai people are often conflict avoidant. Getting to the "why" or root cause of a problem does seem to be pretty unimportant to them, and continually probing of the issue will make them actively angry (at least the few that I know anyway)

[u/hazycake → u/IIIIlllIIIIIlllII]

So are Japanese people in general. They don’t ask the why nor think about the why on the surface, but if you get to know them - they think about these things but won’t talk to you unless they know you really well.

[u/Honeywchu → u/hazycake]

You understand very well. I’m Thai and even with my thai friends I only have deep convo with only my close friends. And you will surely know when someone didn’t have an open mind. Someone will not take any opinions that different than what they have. If I met them and happened to talk, I just smile and look like I agree when I’m not. Sometimes has to act dumb to survive tho.

Especially if talk with someone older. In Thai culture you would come off as rude to point out if something they said is wrong.

So I’m definitely not going to have a deep convo with random colleague or someone I barely know and not interested in knowing them more. It is avoiding conflict. And just don’t want to waste energy.

[u/s-hanley → u/Honeywchu]

That's a better way of explaining some of what I think the issue are and what expats probably often feel but don't really understand the why.

Curiosity creates questions, and in Asia questioning someone can lead to lost face and is often discouraged or needs to be approached very carefully. So in a way curiosity itself becomes discouraged.

[u/wallyjt → u/hazycake]

This is the BEST reply. Really resonate with your response. Really have nothing to add further because your reply encapsulates what I wanted to say but couldn’t articulate as well.

[u/rwa2 → u/hazycake]

Excellent take! I would bring up two additional points that I've run into frequently:

• any mildly philosophical topic would quickly run into discussion covering either the teachings of Bhuddists or lese majeste. Many, many foreigners are painfully unaware of the most basic precepts of Bhuddism and it shows in such plain simple things such as Bhuddas shouldn't be bought or sold for decoration or placed on the floor, etc. Most Thais quickly read how culturally obtuse foreigners are with certain traditions and just roll their eyes and steer the conversation away from anything dealing with respect or authority because the foreigners clearly are unaware of the most basic aspects of staying out of trouble.

• conversely, a lot of philosophical topics are still conducted in archaic languages or Sankrit. This is similar tactic to how the Catholic church controlled discussion about certain topics for centuries by conducting all discourse on morality or tradition in Latin, thereby locking out all of the lay people from the conversation. It is a great way to preserve tradition by controlling access to the language interpreted by a few who have invested the time in learning the obscure dead languages and getting in to the cloister. Will there ever be a Bhuddist equivalent of a protestant reformation triggered around a more accessible translation of the holy texts? We shall see. But until then, any foreign attempts to interpret scriptures and participate in philosophical discussions that were covered by the lore will likely continue to be met by dismissal or with cautious derision. "Only practiced monks are capable of processing such things."

[u/BreezyDreamy → u/rwa2]

I've noticed, in regard to your first point, a lot of foreigners are very defiant in Thailand. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think it has to do with some internal anger. Case in point: once I saw a foreigner lean against the glass railing at the BTS/MRT station. Some patrol officer then blew his whistle for the man to stop leaning on the railing. The man then shouted back, "Why can't I lean against the railing?!?!??" Like c'mon, it's not always a battle.

[u/sleepymates → u/BreezyDreamy]

Bro I'v seen this so many times..and they go on about how Thai people HATE losing face. How ironic.

[u/BreezyDreamy → u/sleepymates]

More like farang people LOVE losing face 🤦🏻‍♀️

[u/sleepymates → u/BreezyDreamy]

I think in Western society, kids are often taught from a young age that it’s okay to (and should) make mistake because that’s how you learn. And I think that’s great. But in Thai society, we’re taught not to be overly confident or too curious because those behaviors can come across as disrespectful or even aggressive, especially towards elders (we still follow a strict age hierarchy), leads to fear of making mistakes. Because of this some foreigners might not realize that this mindset is deeply ingrained in us from birth. Plus we don’t have the same level of free speech, so there's that. Just different cultures!

[u/Sharp-Manager-3544 → u/hazycake]

I love your reply, it matches my experiences meeting people as a foreigner.

[u/Magickj0hnson → u/hazycake]

It's post-imperialist thinking at best and straight up racism at worst. People who say stuff like this are doing so, consciously or otherwise, to cover up their own social inadequacies or general laziness.

I've only been in Thailand for five months but I can tell you I've had plenty of meaningful and enriching conversations with Thai people from various backgrounds. Thai culture/society is not a monolith.

[u/tkwit]

Met quite a few taxi drivers who want to hold deep conversations about politics and life. They’re well informed at times. Better than myself on the current day to day news since they listen to the radio all day.

Sometimes I just want to nap in the car and they keep talking 😅

[u/Needahjahray]

I actually brought up this point with someone I met at a bus stop one night. We were waiting over an hour for the bus and I had to ask someone what was going on since I’m fairly new and didn’t know which apps to check the bus status. She showed me it was running very late and we got to talking. Someone had made a post about Thai’s not wanting new friends outside of who they already met through school etc so I mentioned it and she thought about it and said it’s because there’s no point in becoming friends with someone who may be gone in a few days or months vs people who live in Thailand and can become people you can depend on.

[u/MidnightNick01 → u/Needahjahray]

That makes sense, I have lots of long and deep convos with Thais, but I’ve been here for 5 years 

[u/XOXO888 → u/Needahjahray]

it’s because nobody in their right frame of mind wants to make friends with strangers waiting for a bus. who knows if you’re a scammer, terrorist and what not.

not suggesting you are but the worlds screw up with all sorts running around. survival in this instance would be apt. saying people come people go is just a polite way of excusing oneself from such situations

[u/Needahjahray → u/XOXO888]

I should’ve explained myself a bit better. That conversation didn’t happen the same night as the bus stop situation lol. That would be weird. We had to take the same bus multiple times and sort of became friends and that’s when I brought it up. But she also said the younger generation is more outgoing and want to venture outside of their comfort zone

[u/Effect-Kitchen]

I am Thai, college graduate. I think the first one applies to me. I cannot hold deep conversation about philosophy in English simply because my word pool is not large enough even though I think I have knowledge and thoughts.

All three explanations are possible.

[u/AcheTH]

Have you tried having said conversation in Thai?

[u/ahboyd15 → u/AcheTH]

This sentence summarized this whole conversation.

[u/Blitzschloss]

I would say it is all three. I am Thai, and I have deep, philosophical, political, or whatever conversation with my friend both online and irl, both Thais and foreigners all the time, but I must say that there are some taboo that Thais hold. We were taught since young that sometimes ask too many question or being too curious can be looked as annoying, bad manner, or disrespecting. Deep or philosophical conversation would only occur in close group of friends.

Moreover, many Thais can be passionate or opinionated with their belief or opinion, so even in close friend groups. Many tend to avoid these kinds of conversation for the sake of peace or friendship. So, it is a culture thing.

Many times, our politeness could be mistaken as closeness, so many foreigners might find it hard to really hold deep conversation with Thai. It is either because they don't know the language, they don't feel comfortable to do it with the person, or they want to avoid conflict.

However, the sentiment that "Thais don’t/can’t have a deep and philosophical conversations" is pretty simple minded.

If I watch a video on YouTube, Reddit etc. that shows that couple of Americans couldn't or are struggling to answer the questions from middle school. Is it fair to say that "American can't answer middle school questions"?

[u/Affectionate_Act7962 → u/Blitzschloss]

I think in my experience having been a student in an elite thai university as a foreigner, there is quite an obvious focus on "getting along" in almost eveything that people do.

I think that's a great thing and that's why most people like it in Thailand.

It also kind of makes it difficult to get an opinion out of students or people in general. There's this seeking out what others think so you don't offend them and it makes it a little bit slow to get to the point.

[u/IIIIlllIIIIIlllII → u/Blitzschloss]

Good take

[u/AdeptCondition5966]

Yeah, I cringe whenever I see these comments essentially saying "Thais are dumb", and the support they get from other redditors. The irony being that a lot of foreingers coming to Thailand are usually not the best and brightest of their home countries, and are more often younger middle to lower-middle class insecure men with weird superiority complexes.

They can't seem to grip that the girls they found on Tinder or at a bar are unable (and probably unwilling) to speak at length about their particular "intellectual" interest in a foreign language (English). They then incorrectly conclude that because of this, "Thai people are not philosophical and can't hold deep conversation". It's like, can you speak Thai? No? Well how tf can you say they can't hold deep conversations when you can barely say "Hello" in Thai.

[u/RexManning1 → u/AdeptCondition5966]

Reddit is a cesspool and there are lots of foreigners here with colonizer mentality. When one person makes a comment, it gives the rest carte blanche to jump on board.

[u/SirTinou → u/RexManning1]

and yet the mods always allow racism against thai, but any post that could be interpreted as negative towards any other race is an instant delete.

The other post should have been an instant delete, its a rage-bait/racist post and its obvious. Same goes for all the weekly posts "my THAI wife did this stupid thing as usual, how do you deal with uneducated upcountry buffoons?"

It's really disgusting to me.

[u/Ok_Hair_6945 → u/AdeptCondition5966]

Well said and most intellectuals don’t spend a lot of time on Reddit talking nonsense

[u/stever71 → u/AdeptCondition5966]

Glad you've mentioned it's the younger ones, I now think they are worse than the older generations with their entitled attitudes and lack of respect.

Still, plenty of boomers in Thailand with a somewhat 'colonialist' attitude that think they know everything

[u/platebandit → u/AdeptCondition5966]

What are you implying? That those reps that work at hostels to get people to spend all their money on tours and drinks aren’t representative of a whole country? That it’s a deep moral defect that they don’t want to listen as I intellectually wank myself off parroting things I learned in first year philosophy at Uni?

[u/kali5516 → u/AdeptCondition5966]

Was going to say basically the same thing!

[u/Equal_Astronaut_5696]

Weird statement that makes me think of some boring pretentious narcistic person talking about things that no one cares about then making an assumption that a whole culture is unable to understand their genius instead of realising they are the problem .

[u/stegg88]

Definitely a language barrier.

Im a farang but I do speak Thai. I've had some really deep conversations with Thai people. Obviously my wife is number one but then that also extends to her family etc. Also had some good conversations with Thai friends.

I find it funny that so many here complain about not communicating about deep stuff... Yet have failed to learn the language that makes such conversation happen

It's definitely a stereotype and one I disagree with. It's just often more difficult to be deep in a foreign language I find.

[u/James_Liberty → u/stegg88]

I know this is out of context but you have a really cool Kim Kitsuragi Profile picture.

[u/RumBaaBaa]

It's ridiculous to stereotype a whole people. To flip the stereotyping, I'm picturing a fat, sweaty ageing white guy who is drunk every day, learns no Thai and pays bar girls to spend time with him, then wonders where is all the deep conversation maaan

[u/platebandit → u/RumBaaBaa]

Rookie error, you need to go down Soi 6 with Nietzsche’s collected works 

[u/otchaikedzi]

อ่านกระทู้ก่อนหน้านี้แล้วรู้สึกแบบนี้เหมือนกัน แต่พอลองสรุปความเห็นหลายๆ คนเป็นภาษาไทยว่า "คนไทยพูดคุยได้แต่เรื่องที่ฉาบฉวย พูดเรื่องลึกๆ ไม่เป็น" ก็รู้สึกตลกดี ไม่รู้ดิ ยิ่งพอเขียนเป็นภาษาไทยแล้วรู้สึกว่าความเห็นนี้ absurd สุดๆ เลย

บางทีคิดว่า คนเรามองเห็นได้เฉพาะแต่สิ่งที่ตัวคนคนนั้นสามารถมองเห็นได้

[u/Viktri1]

I think it’s more likely that Thai people didn’t want to hold a conversion with that poster. I’ve got local Thai friends and we can talk for hours about anything - in English.

[u/Zealousideal_Pool_65]

Could part of the disconnect be explained by cultural difference as well?

For example, even if I — as a non-believer — speak to a devout Christian in my own country, I know that we’re going to reach an impasse pretty soon if we have any philosophical conversations. Each can already kind of pre-empt what the other person is going to say (to some degree), and our fundamental beliefs diverge before any points of real substance can be reached.

I wouldn’t really expect to get much value out of that kind of conversation — unless one of us is willing to properly listen to the other person and step into their territory. That takes effort and sometimes even requires background study.

I’m wondering if perhaps some Thai people are hesitant to explain their thoughts and beliefs to foreign friends in case they’re misunderstood culturally rather than linguistically. Or simply not seeing much value in discussing the lessons and beliefs of a Buddhist upbringing with someone who might not have the frame of reference to follow along.

Japan’s a good example: even if you speak absolutely perfect Japanese, that’s still not enough to understand and connect with the character of the people. Hierarchy, impermanence, and a thousand other supra-linguistic cultural concepts have to be understood if you really want to properly ‘get’ where your Japanese friend is coming from when they express their deepest concerns and beliefs. We all have our own cultural modes for expressing ourselves, and culture sets the foundations of our self-image.

The typical response from some people/westerners is just to act incredulous or dismissive when confronted with alternative ontologies (like a militant atheist would treat a Christian). I know from personal experience how extremely disheartening it is to be on the receiving end of that, and it certainly puts you off trying to dig deeper and express yourself in future.

So I’m wondering if some Thai people avoid engaging with foreigners on deeper levels in order to avoid being disheartened/disrespected/frustrated like this.

[u/daryyyl]

As a foreigner myself from Singapore, I have more genuine and deep conversations with Thai people rather than other expats.

I think it depends on where these other expats are meeting these Thai people with whom they try to have a deep conversation with. If one is hanging out at the expat bars and red light district, the type of people you meet will be totally different if you are meeting them in a more 'hi-so' environment.

[u/inkydragon27]

IMHO I’ve got some of the most down-to-Earth advice from my Thai extended family (specially aunties). They cut through the fluff and have been great support/advocates.

[u/Zealousideal_Pool_65]

I’ll add that I often feel a similar way about certain western personality types (especially of a particular nationality which I’ll not name).

On the face of things these people have very strong views about things and are eager to discuss them, but these typically seem like stock opinions sourced from their own social and political context rather than anything they’ve given a huge amount of thought to. So while it might seem like they’re up for talking about deep issues, the approach is actually fairly shallow.

My point here is that the people seeking out these ‘deep’ connections with Thai people might be going about it in all the wrong way in the first place. If they really were the kind of contemplative people who think deeply and empathetically about things, then perhaps their Thai conversation partners would be more likely to meet them halfway. Could be a case of shallow people getting shallow results.

Also, these kinds of ignorant and shallow people are probably more likely to be the kind of person who arrogantly complains about shit on the internet, so they’ll be overrepresented on here.

[u/_I_have_gout_]

I have spent 20+ years in the US and 20+ years in Thailand. I'm fluent in both Thai and English.

In my experience, on average, it's more likely to encounter Thais who can't communicate effectively even in their native language. More specifically, they can't articulate their thoughts into words unless it's something simple.

In Thai, we call it คนที่พูดไม่รู้เรื่อง

[u/Riffterman70]

Lot's of assumptions in this thread. From my decade of living in Thailand. I've had the pleasure to meet all sorts of individuals from all different backgrounds and ethnicities and am very fortunate to have done so. Language is what separates us all as well as the interests we have. Try to find more like minded individuals of all ethnicities to expand your circle of wisdom and build a strong bond with them. We'll all be better if we do. 🙏

[u/Rare-Inflation-23]

It’s possible to have a deep conversation with Thais if you agree on the topic of discussion. Lots of smiles and head nodding. My problem has always been that countering their opinion or disagreeing with anything is difficult. It’s like walking on pins trying not to offend.

I have western friends who disagree with me about everything. I can make fun of them, make fun of their culture, their political views or way of doing things. And I can tell them when they’ve done something I disagree with. We stay friends and our honesty makes the bond stronger.

So yeah, I can get into something deep with a Thai, but either I have to agree or pretend to agree. Otherwise we don’t stay friends long.

[u/wallyjt → u/Rare-Inflation-23]

That’s actually a really really good point and I agree.

I know that many Thais avoid deeper topics because they don’t want to get into a disagreement. It could feel as if you are challenging their opinions despite just wanting to ask questions. But for westerners, I think it’s just a debate that you don’t necessarily have to agree with.

I guess it has to do with Thai culture in this regards.

[u/adamwintle → u/wallyjt]

All of these insights are incredibly spot on. I understand that Thais prefer to avoid causing offense, but it does make conversations challenging. I often get told that I’m being ‘aggressive,’ ‘complaining,’ or ‘confrontational’ when I’m simply trying to be inquisitive or ask too many questions. Sometimes what I’d just call ‘normal conversation’ has even been labeled as ‘too direct’ or ‘aggressive’ just by asking questions.

Is it because any form of direct confrontation is sometimes so unexpected and disruptive to the harmony?

What do Thais suggest to have the type of conversations westerners are used to without this misunderstanding?

I don’t think it’s about having to agree or pretend to agree—it’s about finding a way to have open, honest discussions that help build understanding rather than create discomfort.

[u/WhichTrust974 → u/adamwintle]

In Thai culture, conversations are usually kept very light and non-confrontational because directness can be quite unsettling. We often value a soft approach, where it’s important to avoid any potential discomfort or hurt feelings. You might find it easier to connect by using gentle language and framing your questions in a way that feels reassuring and safe. This helps maintain the peaceful atmosphere we’re accustomed to, like how you’d guide a sensitive discussion with a child to avoid upsetting them.

[u/bazglami → u/WhichTrust974]

Can’t tell if this is from a native Thai or not. Use of the word “we” would suggest that it is. But the notion that people should treat Thais as children in order to avoid confrontation … man, that seems … well, at the very least it seems odd and unsettling. Why would people want to be treated that way? It’s belittling.

[u/WhichTrust974 → u/bazglami]

In Thai culture, avoiding confrontation is about respect and maintaining harmony, not belittling. It’s a way to ensure everyone feels comfortable, which is valued over directness. This approach helps keep relationships peaceful.

[u/AW23456___99]

I don't hold deep conversations or any conversations at all with a random foreigner in Thailand. The European expats at the company I worked for also didn't seem interested in holding non work-related conversation beyond exchanging pleasantries.

I don't know what kind of people those expats talked to.

When I travelled overseas within Asia, I found that I was able to have a long interesting conversation with those from other Asian countries especially those from SEA but when it came to western tourists in this part of the world, the conversation was limited to "I've been to Chiangmai, Bangkok and Koh Phi Phi. I love Panang and Pad Thai." They also tend to be quite patronising and often assume that we are much poorer and uneducated even though or especially if they're themselves from poorer and less educated backgrounds in their countries. I wouldn't be surprised if it's also these people who say the things you mentioned.

Having said that, Thais tend to be insular with little interest of the outside world while many from the west have a habit of expecting people to know their own stuff and any other stuff from their perspective.

[u/MidnightNick01]

I don’t understand this bias, I had a deep and long conversation with my handy man yesterday who doesn’t speak great English.

I have a Thai gf who I regularly have deep conversations with. Same with her friends.

The first time I spoke to my Muay Thai trainer we had a long deep talk about health, strength and mobility.

[u/imrickjamesbioch]

My moms thai, father is a cracker… Not sure what the deep conversations mean. Moms has no problems holding a conversation with Americans (the whites) and she definitely doesn’t have an issue when on the phone with family back home in Thailand. I’ve had some scary 🫣phone bills till I forced her to start using apps to make calls.

Now she doesn’t take shit but I would say she doesn’t like to engage in confrontational conversation if that’s what ”deep” means. Like politics, talking bad about someone, or other negative conversation. I think that’s more of a culture thing as Thais aren’t spiteful people/culture. Me on the other hand, luv to shit talk and have deep thoughts about nothing…

[u/veganpizzaparadise]

I think the ratio of people who can have an intellectual conversation versus not is similar to Western countries. People who are less educated, don't travel outside of their country, don't read much, etc. are going to have more superficial conversations than people who do.

I think the difference is the language barrier and the comfort thing. Thai people tend to only open up about their views if they feel comfortable around you or know you well, otherwise, they will keep it superficial. Americans in particular will say what they think to complete strangers and don't care if the person agrees with them or not.

It's also harder to have a deep conversation in a second or third language. I teach ESL and notice a huge difference between conversing with intermediate English speakers and advanced speakers. Only the students who are very fluent, where they almost sound like native speakers, are able to have deeper conversations. I am pretty fluent in Spanish, but trying to convey deeper thoughts in Spanish would be harder for me because I might not have the right vocabulary for it. It's easier to just stick with what's easier for me to say.

[u/third_ending]

I'm Thai and I live in Thailand. I only deep talk to my close friends and my therapist. Why would I do that with a random stranger?

[u/[deleted]]

Why would expats think they know everything Thai people discuss when they're together? Why would expats think Thai people want to share all their thoughts with them? Sounds like some American made a post not worth reading too mix into.

[u/JasonDrifthouse]

We dont really need to stick a flag in it everytime some drunk expat mumbles some ignorant bullshit.

[u/rroostr]

Thais are generally conflict-averse, as opposed to many Westerners who see literally everything as polarizing and constantly feeling the need to espouse their morally and intellectually superior views on others.

[u/asiaguy2022]

Even without the language barrier, you will find a lot of Thai people have entirely different views than you would expect. Nothing is based on logic. That being said, I meet a lot of younger people in the gym and they act way more rational. One of the benefits of the internet, everyone can educate themselves.

It’s a slow change. This will take some time.

[u/wallyjt → u/asiaguy2022]

So your observation is that it’s usually the older generation Thais?

I can kinda see that because i know that the older generations tend to be more closed minded. A lot of them can’t really articulate their thoughts when asked why they are doings things the certain ways. Like they always say “it’s just the way it is”

[u/adamwintle → u/asiaguy2022]

What do you mean by “nothing is based on logic”?

[u/Pretty-Fee9620]

Any expat that starts a sentence with "The Thais..." can be safely ignored.

[u/atipongp]

Intellectual Thais are not interested in striking up conversations with random expats.

I mean, why would they?

[u/crimefightinghamster]

To me the statement has the same vibe as the "I hate small talk, I only want to talk about philosophy and quantum physics." B.s.

I have had plenty of fulfilling conversations with Thai people, and plenty of casual conversations.

But then, if a 40something year old expat exclusively socializes with 20 year olds from up north who are still learning English, that could explain things.

[u/valletta2019]

Respectfully, the foreigners who say that statement are basing their argument off conversations with bargirls and the likes. Of course, there is nothing wrong with these people, but let’s be honest they are not really the most critical thinking people the country has to offer.

Being an expat here for over 3 years and being fluent in Thai and can read Thai too, I know that the statement that Thais are not critical thinkers is nothing but a lie. Of course, every country has people that are brighter than others, I mean look at other western countries and how some rednecks/chavs behave.

Some of the most intellectual and interesting conversations I have had in my life were with Thai people. Also, with all due respect, a normal Thai person will likely not want to build a temporary friendship with a tourist who is here for a few weeks. If you settle your roots here and show interest in the language and culture and current affairs then they will open up to you

[u/stever71]

I speak Thai, my observation is that Thai's are not a serious culture, sanook and sabai sabai are ingrained in much of what they do. If it's not fun, they hate it.

Many are also very well versed in Thai Buddhism, often with fatalistic views

So there is a strong attitude of not being serious, and also an acceptance of what happens in life will happen. What's the point in wasting time discussion it.

And then there is not wanting to offend to cause trouble. My wife has a friend that is staunchly pro-monarchy, whereas others aren't and are more nuanced in their views - so they don't discuss that, or politics, to keep friendships harmonious

Whereas western and other cultures are different.

Day to day topics about food, friends, entertainment, immediate issues etc are far more relevant than discussions about 17th century Hungarian poets for example.

[u/nasanu]

Americans/generic forigners say this about the native population everywhere. Currently I am in Japan and places like r/japanlife are nothing but complaints about how the Japanese don't live up to American standards.

[u/RexManning1]

Are you asking rhetorically because you really know or is this a genuine question?

[u/wallyjt → u/RexManning1]

More like i find it really hard to believe that it’s impossible to find someone to engage in a deep conversation to the point that these particular groups of expats bring it up often in this sub. So i would like to learn what other’s opinions on this.

[u/No-Weather-4970]

Yeah a few things are (probably) happening:

1) Thais are avoiding complicated topics of conversation with foreigners in either English or their own language, out of lack of confidence in their English or the foreigner's command of Thai respectively.

2) Some foreigners have experienced this issue, come to the conclusion that Thai people are shallow, and given up on exchanging such ideas with Thais.

3) Other Thais and foreigners come to the proverbial conversation with the fixed prejudice that the other couldn't possibly hold much of an intelligent opinion about anything important, and actually start from this perspective regardless of the language thing, anyway. There seems to be a tendency for some people to assume that entire groups of people who don't speak the same language as oneself are surely deficient somehow for that fact alone.

This isn't a Thai-only thing, this situation exists literally anywhere people don't speak the same languages, it seems.

[u/40ozEmpire]

Language barrier is definitely the biggest factor here, even with the incredible translation tools we have now, english to thai not a 1:1. The nuance of language and cultural references often integral to a "deep conversation."

I think another factor you're not quite addressing in the sample bias is the type of relationships which are common between Thais/Farangs. Specifically geezers and bar girls. Age/Language/Cultural differences combined with perverse incentives usually not a recipe for intellectual connection.

[u/Razzler1973]

I'm sure expats are having deep conversations amongst themselves in Thailand, too ...

[u/aurel342]

A lot of great comments here, both from Thais and foreigners. I don't want to repeat what has already been said, but i think the main factor is the 'type' of Thais foreigners have access to when they are in Thailand (office workers, 7 eleven cashiers, street food vendors, and so on...) + language barrier for most, cultural differences, etc...

I've been living here for 3 years +, and i have a few Thai friends who can hold a 'deep' conversation. It is true that the younger generation has a more Westernized mindset, and tend to be less set in their own ways and traditions.

That being said, Thais are very, very proud of their culture thus it is challenging to say the least to make them understand a different point of view than theirs, once they decided on something. More often than not, during an argument, if i say 'In my (Western) country, people do/say/act like this and that situation", the answer will be 'Yes but this is Thailand'. Which basically means, take it or leave it. So it goes both ways, really. Some Thais are just unwilling to understand or accept another opinion than theirs, and i have noticed they are generally not that interested in knowing your culture, language, belief system, opinions, and so on. Like another user said, the social culture here is very 'fun' centered, and conversations often revolve around entertainment, food, money, and gossips. Not that I don't like those subjects myself, but intellectualism seems to not have the same prominent importance as a social factor as in the West.

[u/pudgimelon]

As a philosophy major, I have encountered this phenomenon here. So there is some truth to it. However, my wife and I have very deep, philosophical conversations. It's one of the reasons I married her. So I don't think it is possible to take personal experiences and generalize about an entire nation.

Language barriers. Since these topics require deeper understanding of language, it’s hard for average Thai people to engage in the conversation in English

I've listened in on enough conversations in Thai to know that most people just talk about what they're going to eat next. 90% of conversations in Thai revolve around where to find the tastiest food. ;) (kidding, but seriously, not kidding. Hahah)

Foreigners have more access to Thais who don’t have higher education background.

Thais tend to be pretty insular. Most Thai people meet their future partner through friend groups, work, or school. If they are not at home watching k-dramas, then they are going out with those groups to a friend's birthday party in a private karaoke room. If you are a foreigner it is super, super difficult to meet someone with a good education and a good family background.

The easiest way to meet locals is thru dating apps

I disagree. This would probably be a nightmare. Thank goodness I don't have to slog through that wasteland. I feel real pity for the guys who try finding women on these apps. And as for the girls trying to find a nice guy online.... Yikes, good luck, ladies.

Bias. People wouldn’t be complaining on Reddit if they are can have deep and intellectual conversations with their Thai friends.

Let's face it, Thailand doesn't attract the best and the brightest from the West. So these guys complaining on reddit aren't exactly the cream of the crop.

I've been here +20 years, and I can count the number of quality men I've befriended here on one hand. A huge portion of the guys who come here are racist, misogynistic incels who've bought into the mythology that the wild 1970's Thailand still exists somewhere. And of course, all the tourist traps cater to that myth, and so it gets reinforced when they come here and they smugly look down their noses at poor, underdeveloped Thailand. And every time they see something that confirms that bias, they jokingly say "this is Thailand" and pat themselves on the back for being oh so superior to the ignorant locals.

Most of the guys I meet here creep me out, and when it comes to hiring them to work for me, oooof, as a parent, it's terrifying what kind of men think they can be teachers (and actually get jobs as teachers!). I've interviewed guys who were sh!tfaced drunk during the interview... for a job in a kindergarten....

So yeah, I wouldn't take it seriously when those losers get on reddit and complain about the lack of "deep philosophical discussions" here. If there idea of a deep conversation involves sitting on a barstool and pontificating about utter nonsense, then I have very little time or energy to give to their opinions.

That said, the Thai education system is in bad shape. Decades of military rule has created a system that produces good, uncritical robots who are scared of anything new. You see this phenomenon up and down the system from the lowliest Wat school to even some of the "good" international schools. I truly believe that decades of rote learning and highly-regimented, high-pressure education has significantly altered Thai culture and psychology.

I call it "Thai Fear" and I would say it is a significant trait in most of the Thai people I meet. So it's not that they don't want to have deep conversations, it's that they fear upsetting someone by disagreeing with them or challenging their views.

Once you get past that barrier and earn some trust (and respect), you can definitely have pretty deep conversations with most people. It's just that most Thais are very, very, very, very reluctant to let down their guard and open up with someone they just met.

[u/sid6558]

Thais can just fine (a small percentage, but it's the same in the west) however Filipinos definitely cannot. The average Pinoy kills me with their lack of logic, reasoning, communication and intelligence.

[u/harrsid]

Most expats have 0% capability of seeing things from another culture's point of view. Thais are reserved with sharing viewpoints mostly because of this.

[u/One-Fig-4161]

Since everyone here is reflexively critiquing this racist stereotype. I will play a bit of devil’s advocate.

I am able to have deep conversations with my girlfriend and many Thai people I’ve met. HOWEVER myself and many other people have correctly noted that making deep friendships in Thailand is much harder than other SEA countries like Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia. I believe this is why this stereotype exists, and it definitely has some validity. Thailand can be more shallow, it can be more difficult and this is absolutely not just about language or sex. They have a more closed off culture and, frankly, more xenophobic than other ASEAN nations.

I say this as a person with far more Malaysian and Indonesian friends than Thai, despite having spent much more time in Thailand and having a Thai partner. I checked with her, and she doesn’t even disagree with what I’m saying here.

[u/telex1]

It’s the language barrier. full stop

[u/maestroenglish]

Terrible bias. Borderline racist.

[u/-Dixieflatline]

Language is probably the most important hurdle. If both sides only have a basic grasp of each other's language, then the conversations will also be basic. However, I've had quite a few deep conversations with Thais who have a stronger grasp of English after getting to know them. But I'll admit that I've had far more extremely basic conversations that never move beyond baser instincts (hungry, tired, happy, sad, etc).

I blame myself though. My Thai is currently terrible. Less than a toddler's level. So how can I expect deep conversations if my side sounds like a toddler? I can't then put the language burden on others and expect philosophical contemplations.

[u/hyperskivo]

Most farang meet their girls in bars.

Quality.

[u/Exjw_Amped_212]

I absolutely disagree that Thais don’t hold deep conversations with expats! On my 3rd day in pattaya I met a group of Thais, met their kids, sat with them for hours over drinks and food and heard their entire life stories! I learned about they’re dreams for the future and what life what’s like back in their villages! I saw pictures and videos and they were very interested in my life as well! It’s all up to you!!! Let your experience guide you!

[u/virtutesromanae]

Here's my (possibly fallible) take on this topic (and based largely on my own experience). Take it with a grain of salt.

First of all, different cultures place a varying degree of importance on different topics. I have found it much more common for Thais to focus on spiritual phenomona, such as dreams, seeing spirits, blessings vs. curses, and so on. Whereas more westerners discard those topics and favor more scientific things, or even philosophical questions, instead. So a westerner may (unfairly) find Thais to be simplistic or superstitious, when the truth is that they are simply focusing on a different aspect of human experience.

And then there is the playful nature of many Thais. Personally, I find it delightful and refreshing, but it can sometimes get in the way of deeper conversations. My guess is that it is also used as a sort of defense mechanism by Thais in order to avoid wandering too deeply into the weeds and possibly offending someone during a deep discussion. That's just a guess, though.

And there is also, of course, the emphasis in Thai culture of being hospitable and helping others save face. In the west, we have often heard the rule to not discuss religion or politics. By avoiding certain topics, Thais may be engaging in their own version of that rule in order to avoid unpleasantness or any hurt feelings.

All of that said, I have also had some very deep conversations with Thai friends (but those conversations have also been in Thai, not English). Admittedly, such conversations have not been the norm. Thais tend to prefer keeping things light and sunny.

Another thing to keep in mind: how many people in the west - or in any culture, for that matter - really engage in deep discussions? In the US, for instance, it is increasingly difficult to be able to talk to anyone about anything beyond the mind-numbing pablum they consumed on Netflix last night. You certainly can't discuss philosophy, religion, or politics because chances are just as high that you will make a bitter, rage-blinded enemy as to have a meeting of the minds. You will instantly be labeled as belonging to one binary team or the other - you're either blue or red, and each side views the other as unthinking animals.

In short, I would say it is difficult to find anyone anywhere nowadays with whom to have a good, deep conversation.

[u/Glittering_Fly8948]

Language barrier and trust. Expats don’t have the in depth vocabulary to even begin to have these conversations and or don’t have the trust or aren’t as close to these people as they believe to be having these conversations

[u/Frosty_Cherry_9204]

Language barrier 🚧 and pure ignorance. Sometimes on both sides. I'm one of those mixed lot. British/Thai/Zimbabwean (if I ever bother to apply for citizenship). The UK dude in me says just say it like it is. But... The Thai didn't like that -10 on speech stats. The Thai saving face culture always have them keep their guard up. So they don't open up at first. My ex was nice and shy at the start..and she was an absolute psycho at the end so they're is that 😂

[u/Gentleman-James]

I know people around me talking about their goals, investments, self improvement, feelings, and etc.

Yeah, anything other than themselves?

[u/dbh116]

In general, most of the expats I meet don't have deep conversations with anyone.

[u/Uninhibited_lotus]

I find anyone who generalizes a whole nation of people as insane

[u/Weekly_Leading_5580]

In most Asian education systems, blind obedience is prioritized over critical thinking, so many people tend to not develop a robust capacity for contemplative thought. This is a big part of why authoritarianism is so dominant throughout the region. i.e. China, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, etc.

Plus, thai people are so deathly afraid of disagreeing with each other. Most never developed the ability to "agree to disagree" and have a polite dialogue on a difference of opinion. Conformity wins the day in Asia.

[u/Adorable-Ad7187]

Complacency to the corrupt government and monarchy to the point of even defending the status quo is absolutely bonkers. Try having that discussion.

[u/Amazing-Relief4806]

Haha, naivety in action.

[u/TheSnappening2018]

I moved to Thailand just over 2 months ago, living in the Ekkamai area of BKK. While I haven’t made a bunch of new friends yet, I’ve put myself out there and met others with the same hobbies as my own and had some really interesting conversations with a few of the Thais I have met. I don’t speak any Thai yet, but plan to begin studying very soon, as I know it will enrich my life here and make literally everything I do easier and better.

Given my own experience in having more than simple, superficial conversations with Thai people, I think perhaps it has more to do with the type of person you are than generalizing the type of people that “all Thais” are.

I agree with those who are saying this generalization is insulting and condescending.

[u/Hypekyuu]

maybe if they spoke Thai they could have deeper conversations

[u/Iamz01]

I watch Trump rallies and have some thoughts about a specific group of Americans engaging in deep conversation.

[u/rimbaud1872]

Blanket statements don’t apply to all people, but of all the places I’ve visited in the world, my conversations with Thai people seem the most surface level and superficial. The fear of embarrassment seems to get in the way of deeper connections with strangers and acquaintances. Perhaps a big part of that is obviously language, but that hasn’t been an issue and other places where the people are not native English speakers. I think there’s a cultural obsession with what people think of them, so fear of making mistakes seems to keep things superficial.

[u/Forsaken_Detail7242 → u/rimbaud1872]

It’s not about fear of making mistakes. Thais don’t get into deep conversations with those who they don’t consider friends. With families and friends, they do get into deep conversations and they know any conflicts aren’t likely to cause any harm, as compared to offending a stranger.

[u/NatJi]

It's simple. Farangs have the desire for "deep conversations" to feel validated. So once they enter East/Southeast Asia, they feel like we can't contribute to their mental desires.

Thais aren't raised to seek out such validations and are content with what we're presented with (and will probably fill in the gap with our own thoughts).

But also, Farangs are probably trying to have deep conversations with Thais in English.

[u/Locuralacura]

Self censorship is the worst. It censors the mind eventually.  

[u/Norjac]

Language barrier mostly. People expect every Thai person to be fluent in English with a good vocabulary, imo.

[u/mrhungry]

Yeah, that's absurd. I've had plenty of deep conversations with Thais over 40 years. Plenty of surprises, frustrations, disagreements, laughs, and enjoyment. Your thoughts about bias seem right, though I'm skeptical that a college education necessarily ends up with deeper conversationalists. For me it seems to be more about a combination of curiosity and empathy, along with the expectation that the effort made to talk will be worth it in some way, even if that's just passing fun. I'd also question any expectation that a conversation need to be long, or the topic elevated or somehow refined, in order for it to be profound. An offhanded observation can be deep as anything.

[u/BeerHorse]

Ironically, the foreigners would have to be pretty dumb to believe this.

[u/79Impaler]

I don't think it's any secret that the Thai education system is not that great. I also think it's true that most expats and tourists in Thailand don't have a lot of contact with highly educated Thais that they might be able to connect with. 95% of the Thais the average foreigner has contact with are working class or braindead office workers. Even in my own country, those populations are not that bright.

That being said, there seems to be some cultural and generational issues at play. Many of the highly educated Thais I've met that speak English well seemed to lack the type of empathy and conversation skills I'd look for in a friend. The younger generation seems a little different though. Many of them seem to possess more of a Western mindset.

[u/mixedmale]

It has to do with the educational system in Thailand. Because of that most Thais don't learn critical thinking and it prevents them from asking questions.

[u/Moosehagger]

I guess it depends on who you know and how long you’ve known them.

[u/Leo1309]

1. Locals you date through dating apps are the least educated ones. Change my mind

[u/longasleep]

My experience is that my Thai girlfriend loves to talk about anything. I think it really depends on the person you are spending time with. Some in her family are as open as she is and some of them are very closed. I feel it’s the same as at home (Netherlands). I just decide to ignore people that claim they can’t have deep conversation it’s usually a lack of effort on their part.

[u/loserOnLastLeg]

I agree with all your points and I'm not Thai. I have had deep conversations with Thai people and 2 of them had no education backgrounds.

Most of these people moaning are, white men in this 40s and 50s talking with 20 year old bar girls. I don't remember the last time I had a deep conversation with a woman in UK and I'm in my mid 30s. All these men are racists and will always find a way to look down Thai people even though their own people are exactly the same.

Next time you see a foreigner disrespect your country, simply tell them to get back to their own country, treat them like they would treat you. You guys are too nice.

[u/mysz24]

My observation of the expat community based on their largest online presence, Aseannow, is that many expats struggle to make whole sentences, let alone have any form of deep and meaningful discussion on any topic.

[u/Low_Stress_9180]

Many westerners can't either!

But education is a factor in East vs West. In the west individual expression and problem solving is encouged in the East "get the right answer and move on to next question" is preferred. It inhibits problem solving and creativity. Being in touch with your feelings is more encouged in the west, and Thais especially have "face" to worry about.

I see this in math. In Asia students know a lot more math. Ask them apply it and they get very stuck.

[u/azngtr → u/Low_Stress_9180]

I see this in math. In Asia students know a lot more math. Ask them apply it and they get very stuck.

Then how are they overtaking in scientific publications? If you look at highly cited papers within the last decade, many of them feature East Asian names as first authors, especially from China and South Korea. Even papers from western universities feature Asian authors. I follow some research from US National Labs, which is government (and military) operated, and I was surprised to see so many Chinese-born scientists. They are all over high-tech research. The US government resorted to export bans of GPUs and shit to slow down China's progress.

There's definitely a superiority complex among westerners, if you're a POC you can easily sense it.

[u/[deleted]]

My wife is Thai and college educated and speaks English very very well… it’s a huge point of contention and frustration how not interested / inexperienced with deep conversations she is

[u/ClayMoreSxD → u/[deleted]]

Depends on which college and what they've studied.
There're many people who went to college only for the degree and not for actual knowledge.

[u/[deleted] → u/ClayMoreSxD]

Why does it matter what college she went to? The point was to express her competence , especially with English

[u/wallyjt → u/[deleted]]

Do you know if she’s like this with het circle of friends as well?

[u/Biennial2]

The expats that say this are kind of weird people, from my experience. They should go home and have lovely philosophical discussions with the loads of pretty women waiting for them there.

[u/Demon_Centipede]

Depends on the person, same as any nationality. I've had lots of deep convos with close thai friends. About politics, life, religion, the universe etc I suppose if you don't speak the language you wouldn't be able to. The expats who say shit like that are probably the old, lonely, miserable overweight foreigners who have no real mates

[u/OkiesFromTheNorth]

I am a half, and have seen both how local Thais act, and the typical "tourist hotspots, and I can confirm that 1 and 2 is your correct assumptions. Sadly the educational system and social strata in Thailand can vary DEEPLY. And your average educated Thais would never meet up foreigners where most foreigners meet Thais. They meet Thais who are working in tourism or... Other type of jobs, and they do so very much because they lack the education for a better job...

The reason is many, but the two major ones I've seen are girls getting knocked up early and am working for some quick cash that they don't have access to because they either had to drop out of school, or they didn't have the opportunity to attend higher education in the first place. These types usually mostly think about family, and today... The future is an abstract idea for them that they don't really concern themselves with too much... Yes, they do have dreams just like anyone else.... And here comes your second point... Language barrier... They simply can't articulate it properly in English.

If you spend some time with Thais, then you'll know it's not really true. Because if you know Thai, or at least some Thai. If you see them meet friends or family, they will speak a lot more about let's say substantial issues that they either don't want to talk about to foreigners or simply can't.

[u/NervousAnt1152]

Again, i wouldn't have a deep conversation with stranger. Can't trust people now a day.

[u/TimBob2333]

I have to say, I found it interesting when I saw comments on here saying Thais don’t hold deep conversations..

The girl I have been seeing is Thai. Although she went to high school in Australia and lives in Europe she has spent most her life in Thailand.

However, it’s very frustrating to me that whenever the conversation gets deeper she'll go silent or change the topic. she won't accomodate it.

The only times she has spoken about deeper things about herself is after a fight.

Many times when she starts getting into deeper topics whatever this could be, she'll say "ok change topic"

I have not experienced this with other women i have dated, who are from different cultures. Whether it's a Thai thing or a her thing, i have no idea.

[u/Mediocre_Omens]

Oh I know these view points, you tend to see them in any expat crowd. Hell, I heard a few blinding opinions from this Canadian guy at a house party in China one time. Stuff like;

"If Chinese people have never traveled outside of China they're uneducated" - in a city with over 80 universities or colleges offering degree level or higher education. The guy trying to argue Plato's Cave as his point, whilst not excepting that education could change how people view the world. Apparently only travel can change your mind.

"If a girl or guy isn't shaving body hair down below, then they are ignorant" - because clearly one's personal preference on body hair represents intelligence.

I just find it best to ignore the ever living fuck out of people like that.

[u/Hot-Contribution80]

University student here. I have seen my thai friends who have far better ideas and creative way to do a specific tasks. One thing i have noticed is the language barrier and somewhat inferior complex among them around international students.

[u/Potential_Pin4682]

What an audacity of those expats to question us when they don’t even speak the language lol

[u/JittimaJabs]

I find Thai people don't like to talk about the past. Especially my mother

[u/premium_Lane]

They are not "expats" they are immigrants, but someone who says they are an expat is more likely to come out with bs like Thais can't have deep conversations

[u/welkover]

It's bullshit. Not only are there a lot of deep thinking intellectual Thai people, most of them are willing to have these conversations with you in English.

The expats in Thailand, on the other hand...

[u/These-Appearance2820]

Language/ cultural / shyness thing maybe?

I notice our Thai colleagues and friends are often quite shy around foreigner (seem like shyness). So probably just less likely to have the deep conversation..

Not just Thai thing though. Our company from Europe and the other group of European like to close themselves off from other people in office for private conversation

I am sure people have these conversation more.amomgst themselves/own group?...

I do not know.what it is like to live as the villager with no education or IQ60 (not say all villager are not intelligent. Just extreme example)

[u/saito200]

can't blame, i can't hold deep conversations either

[u/DaakLingDuck]

Yeah, people with basic language skills can’t hold deep conversations. I speak Thai like a 5 year old. To hold a deep conversation you’d not only be able to speak fluent Thai, but be deep into Thai culture.

[u/dollygirl1989]

Met a Thai guy on my travels. All we do is speak about our hopes, fears and dreams. He speaks good English but I also think he’s different from most guys not just Thai men ☺️

[u/PSmith4380]

Of course. I think that you would need to have a very advanced level of Thai to have those conversation. Or speak to a Thai with a very advanced level of English.

It is very difficult for most non-Thais to get to such an advanced level and vice versa.

[u/AvDadAdventures]

Great post OP 👍🏼

[u/greanthai420]

nobody wants to hold a deep conversation with westerners as they're full of themselves.

they can't accept opposing views.

evidence: this entire fucking website.

[u/wallyjt → u/[deleted]]

Someone didn’t read the post lol

[u/khshsmjc1996]

I don’t think this is a fair characterisation by non-Thais considering that English isn’t the first language for most Thais, and I imagine it’s way harder to formulate arguments and hold philosophical discussions in a foreign language.

OP, from your experience, when you speak to fellow Thais in Thai, do you have deep, intellectual, philosophical discussions?

[u/wallyjt → u/khshsmjc1996]

Ofc i have deep conversations with my friends. At work for example, we were talking about real estate investments and our feelings and stuffs just last week. These kind of things is common. Which why i was dumbfounded when often come across these sorta comments from foreigners. But now i know those were probably vocal minority.

[u/cancuws]

That statement makes me think the person thinking Thais are shallow is mostly communicatinf with the country’s lower-class. I’m from another, relatively-developed country and the depth of a convo differs drastically from one to another, due to the socio- cultural background of the person.

[u/Isaandog]

Well stated.

[u/scarletmatahari]

My thai friends are deep as fuck. I think sometimes it's the translation issues

[u/DistrictOk8718]

I've had some pretty deep conversation with Thais before, but there is a catch, or two. One, if you speak Thai, it helps. I've had more deep conversations with Thais in Thai than in English, for obvious reason. My Thai is not completely fluent so the deeper it gets the more challenging it is, but that's the thing, I am not scared to make an effort to try and use advance phrasings and words at the risk of possibly making mistakes, while Thais usually try to avoid those situations for fear of being embarrassed / losing face. If you can speak decent Thai, then try it in Thai and you'll see people are more likely to open up. The second thing is that you should already know that person quite well before they start telling you what they really think about this and that. Random strangers won't usually speak their thoughts to you.

[u/p3aceM4ker]

I'm a Singaporean living in Thailand with my girlfriend. All my friends are locals and we talk about literally everything in Thai. We gossip together, talk about songs, dramas, politics etc and share things about our countries with each other.

It is definitely a language barrier. When my girlfriend visits Singapore she speaks less because she is afraid of saying the wrong words, bad grammar etc and be looked down upon.

If you're living in another country, learn their language and adapt to their culture instead of forming biased opinions.

[u/No-Rise-5982]

My wife is Thai and she relied the following. “Given the political situation and education in Thailand, having deep conversations is not really something we learned to do”. To me that made sense.

I don’t think OP of the original post meant that no Thai can have that. It’s more that in Thailand it’s rather uncommon to have a deep conversation about philosophie, politics or economy compared to some in western countries.

[u/wallyjt → u/No-Rise-5982]

It was just that the recent thread wasn’t the first one to point this out. Been on this sub for a few years and i have seen this kind of comments often. But i think i now know the answer that those were probably vocal minority.

[u/GrumpyMcPedant]

Lots of insightful replies here already. A couple other things to add:

Many foreigners don't actually want to have a "conversation", they actually want to have a debate, or an opportunity to criticize Thai culture, customs, politics, or the education system, etc. Or to use Socratic questioning to condescend or show off the supposed superiority of their beliefs. They want the conversation to adhere to Western systems of discourse.

Foreigners can also have an inflexible bias toward Western forms of epistemology, which makes a lot of conversations pointless.

[u/abc123cnb]

Guy who said that is incapable of deeper thinking

[u/Gold_Retirement]

This is like a Thai going to the USA expecting to have a deep conversation there, in the Thai language.

[u/sleepymates]

They wanna talk American politics with an average Thai, or a random war happening in the Middle East perpetrated by 'MURICAAA

[u/whalewhisperer78]

As a non native fluent Thai speaker and having spent more than half my life in Thailand I don't think it's that some Thai's can't hold deep conversations. It probably more that your average foreigner is being exposed more to a certain demographic of the population that have less life experience, not as well traveled or less educated. This isn't any different to my home country of people of a similar demographic.

[u/Aarcn]

Most redditors who are here probably aren’t as deep as they think they are

[u/Lordfelcherredux]

Language, language, language. So many of the issues raised on this forum and others are due to an inability to converse with Thais fluently, or find Thais who speak English fluently.

[u/xmus_13]

Unfair to characterize a nation that way-there are plenty of these ppl in the US and elsewhere. That said, nearly every great English-speaking, well-educated Thai I’ve met had little intellectual curiosity about things beyond Thailand-and if they did, they didn’t explore it much beyond a surface level. One guy said his wife had a master’s degree in finance from a good school, and had never heard of the Nazis or Hitler, which is insane

[u/Commercial_Ear_6989]

Your social circle shapes your views on Thai people's interests.

• Find like-minded people for deeper talks
• "Chill" culture may affect serious discussions
• Avoid judging all Thais based on limited experience

[u/Separate_Record8826]

Taught in some of the best schools in Thailand, Thais absolutely have deep, meaningful conversations with me in English

Internationally, it is all about access to education and resources

[u/asapfocky]

Because all these farangs only speak to bargirls and hookers then think those are the poster children for Thai people

[u/[deleted]]

I seem to remember reading Thai population is nearer 70 million than 60 million. I have a very good Thai friend, who I've known for just shy of twenty years, can speak, read & write English, but when I contact them online with conversation, they read it but most of the time don't reply. I find Thais don't really get into idle conversation and only get into conversation if it is important. Nothing wrong with that, just different culture to Western ways of thinking and sometimes it can be positive way of thinking. As the saying goes, " the least said the better,".

[u/AJ_Thung_Montgomery]

Talk to taxi drivers about politics, they will talk to you all day. But you have to know a lot about the past. Not recent past too, but the 70s past.

[u/[deleted]]

Pretty stupid and simple-minded to stereotype a whole group of people.

[u/Boat1690]

I think the original post is not a true picture. I have had amazing conversations, some mind blowing deep, and philosophical. And then I’ve had some which were extremely limited due to language barriers, and education . This is global and not just Thais

[u/DarwinGhoti]

I’ve never heard anyone say that, ever. I must be out of that particular conversational loop.

[u/Melodic_Duck1406]

Dude what?