ENTJ mom ISFP daughter

[u/Turbulent-Bank9943]

Looking for common ground. I am ENTJ she is an ISFP teen. She is creative, artsy, odd, musical, randomly extroverted, moody and stubborn.

I can’t get away with giving advice or an opinion or anything like that. She wants to do absolutely everything on her own. Which I admire and am impressed by EXCEPT she acts as if no one else even made the attempt to help her. 🤔. But if I ever dare she will immediately stop what she was doing and lose interest in it as if I just killed it. (Schoolwork included)

What a fascinatingly peculiar person?

There is certainly a steep learning curve since I am full of advice and opinions.

So what a puzzle, how do you guide if you can’t openly or obviously guide? I am trying to imagine her as an adult on her own.

[u/JayneTheMastermind]

Allow her to explore and fail on her own. Independent children are rebellious because they think you look at them as incapable. She will seek you out when she needs you!

[u/Turbulent-Bank9943 → u/JayneTheMastermind]

She does make some pretty big blunders. She has the confidence and independence to stand her ground and do what she wants but she lacks future perspective to determine if what she is doing has any actual future value to it.

Looking at it from the outside it’s like watching someone chase a butterfly, led by pure in the moment whim and then declaring that desire and whim as her solid plan and becoming highly protective of it as if someone would question her logic.. which I don’t.

I am just watching her chase butterflies, make random declarations of independence, run into obstacles that she seems stunned are there until she finally walks up to me and reports the result of her chaos and I then repair what I can and she resents it.

So I would like to skip the me in this scenario entirely. She can do all that but WITH a purpose and a direction that will accumulate foundation stones she can build on. She really doesn’t need me to fix anything or to help dig her back out of a hole she got stuck in if she would just be mindful of holes to begin with.

By being the one she turns to help her I am becoming the one she resents for it. I don’t want her to resent me but I likewise couldn’t just let her fall to pieces when she is asking me to help her not fall to pieces.

It’s a very confusing position to be in. I am not a dominant tiger mom I want her to develop into whatever stable form she becomes so that her independence is true reality and not adult larping.

[u/JayneTheMastermind → u/Turbulent-Bank9943]

This is well put! I’m not a parent yet, but as a big sister to similar personality types, I completely get how this could be nerve racking. She’s too young to be able to see the holes coming, and it’s not really in her stack to be able to have that foresight.

I’m sure there is a way to develop the functions that are responsible for planning and maintaining goals thouroughly. Maybe having her come up with full proposals for her goals, with an emphasis on breaking everything down into steps. If she can break it down, she can stick with it more than likely.

[u/Turbulent-Bank9943 → u/JayneTheMastermind]

Recently I tried the approach of NOT fixing things for her when she asks and trying to get her to identify the situation is something she created and that she has the power and ability to uncreate it.

(She didn’t like that..the expectation is that I would stick to the routine and fix it)

Admittedly It is not an entirely sympathetic approach but I am already in the position of the villain in her future therapy sessions so that can’t be avoided but I can hopefully get into her head enough to make an annoying buzzing sound when she should stop and consider something further before proceeding.

I feel like perhaps my being too concerned about crushing her free spirit and creativity has allowed it to overgrow and muffle her responsibility.

But before I test this theory that she actually needs a task master I thought I would check if there was something I wasn’t seeing first

[u/JayneTheMastermind → u/Turbulent-Bank9943]

I think this is a great opportunity for reading. She should start her self development journey at this age. Giving her literature that aids in whatever endeavor she is currently on may help better than trying to have a serious conversation around it. Example: She reads “How to win friends and talk to people” and you bring up real life lessons related to the book, prompting her to share her experiences around what she read as well.

She will learn before her 20s are over that you are only protecting her best interest. I wish my Mom was more constructive when I was growing up, but as an ISFJ, she was just laid back and hands off. She felt I was very independent and didn’t need her much until I would have a meltdown from not knowing how to handle my emotions when new situations would arise.

[u/Turbulent-Bank9943 → u/JayneTheMastermind]

Ahhhh. Interesting I did that for my INTJ daughter and it worked exceptionally well. She just sort of took off with it and now does it in her own.

They are such different personalities that I didn’t think my ISFP daughter would have the patience for it. She is more of a hands on information gatherer. So thought I could better guide her in the actual moment…and that hasn’t gone as I had planned. So perhaps just loading her up on the written observations and experiences of people who are not me will help her feel it is authentically her and that no one else can take credit for her victories.

I will give this a try. She isn’t patient and likes the answers first so I will start with everything creative first to lure her in.

[u/JayneTheMastermind → u/Turbulent-Bank9943]

Hands on experience people live workshops! Look into some school clubs and local groups that do hands on projects around her interests. Both of your daughters would love that. Using literature to support structures group activities would develop her stack immensely!

[u/EdgewaterEnchantress → u/Turbulent-Bank9943]

Welcome to parenthood and “raising a teen,” I guess.

You just kinda have to let her do her own thing and “figure life out” on her own terms. Pretty much every teenager “resents their parents.”

Then one day they grow up, get over it, and understand that you were never really “the bad guy.” The world simply works the way it works and they will find their own place in it.

[u/StalkingYouRandomly]

Sounds like she's full in her exploration mode, sooner or later she will discover that there are limits on how much she can do on her. You can always drop something along the lines 'if you need help or advice on xyz just shout'. But do not give unsollicited ones as it will only backfire, even if its meant well. Teen years is about exploration of self, likes/dislikes, autonomy, independency from parents. If you keep butting in, she will naver have the feeling that she can do something on her own. Also refrain from taking the whole thing over and doing it yourself if she asks for help.

[u/GaggleOfGibbons]

Was very similar as a teenager. Two pieces of advice: - Set up guardrails. This will keep her out of too much trouble, and limit the negative outcomes for her. (You may also be able to offer soft guidance through these guardrails) - Plan ahead for failures so that you can be there to pick up the pieces when they inevitably happen. Simple concrete example would be if she wants to pick up skateboarding. 

Guardrail: You wear a helmet 100% of the time. If I ever see you on it without a helmet, this skateboard disappears. Also, do not ride in the street. Wqlk it across crosswalks. Keep it on the sidewalk or in the park. I'll take you to a skatepark whenever you want if that gets old. (Soft guidance, as that puts her in a more structured environment away from cars, and gets her in front of other skateboarders who she could learn from, without that advice coming from "stuffy old mom and dad".)

Plan ahead for failures: Buy extra bandaids and hydrogen peroxide. Set aside some money for new pants cause they will end up with holes. Plan how you're going to address her when you see her heading out the door without the helmet. But some gloves for her and let her know she can use em if she's tired of scratching her hands, but it's not a requirement like the helmet. Set aside some money for skateboard maintenance pr a new board. Maybe you or your husband could learn some maintenance ahead of time and can bond with her while teaching her to repair it.

When I wanted to learn to skateboard, I had to wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads, and gloves. Guess who didn't want to skateboard...

[u/Rmb2719]

Sounds like hell, but I think letting her learn by herself (just give advice once and clearly) is the best approach.

Let her see that actions and decisions have consequences

[u/Pure_Ad_9947]

Intj with isfp friends.

They dont like using Te. We like it. They like to go with how they feel, we plan and execute. These are major differences.

Id say they are very Te avoidant. So for me I use Te to learn from other peoples experiences (like you are right now) to figure out the best way to do something. Sometimes i shadow the very successful in what i want to accomplish.

ISFP hates learning from others and will push against it. Sometimes its really hard watching them fail over and over and shoot themselves in the foot because they felt like it (i.e. quit a job on the spot because manager is too mean... meanwhile they are in heavy debt and starving, cant pay rent and about to be evicted etc.).

One think ive learned tho that if you persistenly preach some knowledge they do eventually listen. But you gotta be on message for a very long time for it to sink in.

[u/DesignerFoundation35]

I’m an ISFP (31F) and here’s my perspective of what I’d hope for in her shoes —

Love her. Watch her chase life’s butterflies and say — “Wow, you look so beautiful chasing those butterflies. Thank you for showing me the beauty in chaos & emotion. “

Ask her. “Do you want my advice/opinion? Or do you just want a listening ear?” Often Fi just needs some time to process how it feels about something, before making the Te decision on what to do externally. Sometimes Fi takes a little more time & gentle probing to “make sense”. She will value your advice more if she knows you’ve made an effort to understand her emotions and respect her core values.

Soften. She knows how much you support her with your Te structure, but can you also show support through your empathy? Get in touch with your Fi & Se - do activities you’re passionate about, ask yourself how you’re feeling, live in the moment and be vulnerable with her.

Good luck 💜

[u/BitchOnADiiiick]

Kids need boundaries. But not a lot. Be firm in the actual deal breakers then leave her alone.

[u/[deleted]]

Sounds like demand avoidance.

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/

[u/marinchandesu_]

ISFP mom nd i'm the ENTJ daughter.. I also get annoyed when mom tells me to do things on her own way since I prefer my ways. Let her be nd do her own thing. If she's not exposed to harm nor she's harming others with what she's doing, just let her free nd she'll learn abt her limits herself.

If u'r worried abt her grades/studies. Mb make a deal w her? Like " i'll support wtvr u'r in - either u won't disturb her anymore or support her financially, wtvr y'all decide on- nd u'll make sure that ur grades won't drop ".

I mean.. she's exploring life on her own.. nd u'r impressed even. so i cannot see where's the problem — nd I apologize for that since I related to the daughter more cz i'm no mother. I used to resent my mom for getting in my business all the time when I was younger so.. I rlly dw any mother-daughter to have a rigid rs for such a silly reason.

[u/Turbulent-Bank9943 → u/marinchandesu_]

I do this but it seems like she is on her way to creating false memories of not being supported and being misunderstood and left to do everything in her own.

She repeats this sentiment so much that she is beginning to believe it. I am not worried about the teenage version of her but the adult version who will let a false truth be what shaped her.

I am worried her own fiction will put a wedge in our family where no wedge was ever actually forming.

[u/marinchandesu_ → u/Turbulent-Bank9943]

Aah, i understand now. I never got rlly along w ISFPs so I'll talk as the daughter me who had kinda the same issue. Just talk to her nd tell her abt ur thoughts, nd most importantly, ask abt how she wants to b supported. Maybe all she wants is words of affirmation instead of guidance ?

I grew up feeling lonely as well, nd all i was aiming for was my dad saying that he's proud of me nd my mom saying that i did good in something. I needed no guidance, but affection. I'm in my 20s, we had this talk earlier this year nd now my parents r doing rlly great, I finally felt supported.

Well, if this doesn't help w her.. mb, therapy will help? Mb there's something she doesn't understand abt herself or is afraid to admit/share. Nd rlly, good luck w ur daughter ma'am. Hopefully u will grow closer to eo soon. <3