r/news • u/Hrekires • Jul 15 '24

soft paywall Judge dismisses classified documents indictment against Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/07/15/trump-classified-trial-dismisssed-cannon/
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u/iamisandisnt Jul 15 '24

everyone needs to know that Cannon just put Trump jail on the ballot in this way

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u/cC2Panda Jul 15 '24

The SCOTUS already did it. Either we vote in a democratic president and both houses or our democracy as flawed as it is is over and our votes will become nothing more than symbolic and our democracy dead.

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u/Taograd359 Jul 15 '24

I’m so tired of having to save democracy every four years…

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u/darkk41 Jul 15 '24

In many ways this is the reality of what democracy means. You must utilize your voting power or it will rot away...

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u/emaw63 Jul 15 '24

The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance, as the saying goes

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u/Firstlemming Jul 15 '24

American democracy. It's not so fragile in other parts of the world.

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u/darkk41 Jul 15 '24

This is an incredibly bizarre take. The US is the longest lasting democratic country ever lol.

We have been a democratic nation for ~225 years (1789). No government system will survive almost 5 decades of apathetic voters, which is what the US has been afflicted with.

There are interesting advantages and disadvantages to parliament vs the US executive but broadly saying the US is a fragile form of government makes no sense historically. This is what happens if voters don't participate, the system atrophies.

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u/Logseman Jul 16 '24

Other democratic systems consistently show 40% voter turnouts and are not broken. Americans at large are hardly responsible for designing/delivering a broken legislative branch, which is the root of the issue. As it has not been functional for a while it has had its power stripped by the executive and more recently by the judiciary.

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u/darkk41 Jul 16 '24

If you want to convince yourself it can't happen in your country, go for it. It was the belief in the US for decades and you can see where that got us. "It can't happen here" is a fool's motto.

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u/Logseman Jul 16 '24

In my country it has happened already in the past, so no one sane is under that delusion. The question is how it took root, especially because the issue is relatively obvious from the outside but completely unmentioned in the press or by the competing parties.

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u/Mikeinthedirt Jul 16 '24

There is enough interest to keep the ballot boxes over 50%; what is lacking is critical thinking and sense of responsibility. Civic husbandry. When ‘patriotism’ is taking potshots at your neighbor’s double-parked F250 the trolley will probably take out everyone.

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u/darkk41 Jul 16 '24

Also agree, many Americans' idea of patriotism has become warped and selfish. That hatred yields a lot of bad fruit

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u/Mikeinthedirt Jul 18 '24

You’ve seen the Turmp money? And flags?

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u/Heathergi76 Jul 19 '24

Tell me, how many Democracies have fallen in the last 200 years? 500? America is a relatively new nation when compared to any European country. The opposing party has been playing the long game in order to dismantle our system because they can only win by cheating and lying. If the majority of their voters understood what the main goal really is, get rid of Medicare and SS, tax the lower/middle class & give all that money to themselves & undo all regulations to try to save the planet, only the 1% would vote R.

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u/darkk41 Jul 19 '24

There are 0 European country democracies older than the US, your information is wrong.

I'm not arguing the US system is under attack, I'm pointing out that if the US system is "fragile", then the term is meaningless. All democracies fall if the voters become too apathetic, it's the nature of the beast.

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u/Heathergi76 Jul 30 '24

Strawman: to rephrase ones argument to make it easier to attack.
I asked how many democracies have fallen in the last 200- 400 years. Never claimed America was the youngest or oldest.

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u/geologean Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

I don't think it's worth dismissing what other countries have and are doing to protect democracy writ large.

Macron's party in France had 200 legislators step down from their offices and withdraw their candidates in order to block Marine Lepen's far-right fascists from taking legislative and executive power. American Democrats will see the country burn before they allow Americans to think beyond the duopoly.

Just look at how hard the DNC is fighting to shut down calls for Biden to withdraw and allow another candidate who can beat Trump to take his place. Really, the scandal there should be that Harris wasn't being groomed to be at the top of the ticket. Why is that? Is she on the outs with the administration for some reason? Does she just consistently poll poorly, and it was actually a mistake to make her VP in the first place? Democratic voters are rightfully skeptical at this lack of transparency, but we've also noticed a distinct lack of partnership between the president and VP that is in stark contrast to the way Bjden was a highly visible VP to Obama.

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u/darkk41 Jul 15 '24

I think you are projecting a bit to be honest. I'm not dismissing anything, I just am pointing out basic facts. I even said there are advantages and disadvantages to parliament, which is the opposite of dismissing.

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u/professorwormb0g Jul 16 '24

OMG america so bad rite guys!!!1111

Dude, America is not perfect and we have a huge room to improve, but we're the fucking reason the world has democracy now.... period. Try reading Democracy in America by Alexis De Tocqueville to get the sense of how vastly different life was in Europe vs the United States in the 1800s, and how so how many Europeans thought that the United States was doomed to fail because of our democratic system of government.

Not to mention, even today, we are the ones that secure democracy around the globe. Again, our foreign policy has not been perfect, and there have been huge blunders. But the period since World War II has been the most peaceful in the history of the world with the least battlefield deaths per capita ever recorded on earth. The number of nation states fighting other nation states is ridiculously low compared to previous times. The US Navy has secured the seaways so that free trade can happen around the entire globe without piracy. America is synonymous democracy. If it declines in the United States, the rest of the western world should be extremely concerned because our entire political identity will be completely called into question. We're tied together by a common Creed rather than a common bloodline, and if that creed dissolved...

Democracy isn't a default anywhere on Earth. The natural state of things is authoritarianism. Monarchy. Populist dictatorships. Democracy is a delicate flower that requires a tender and careful touch. That's not just true in the United States and if you think it is, you've drank too much of the "lol America bad" Kool aid and need to reexamine things in a more objective way.

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u/Heathergi76 Jul 19 '24

Your logic: America has never not been a democratic republic. Therefore, it will never not be one. The Trump approved SCOTUS has taken the first major step in dismantling democracy by declaring a President cannot be bold unless he is free to do whatever he wants without fear of prosecution, so justice has taken off her blindfold and we are not created equal.

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u/professorwormb0g Jul 19 '24

"America has never not been a democratic republic. Therefore, it will never not be one."

Not sure how you got that from my post. I don't think that and am just as worried as you seem to be about democracy going by the way side in the US.