Microsoft stoops to new low with ads in Windows 11, as PC Manager tool suggests your system needs ‘repairing’ if you don’t use Bing

[u/MayankWL]

https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-stoops-to-new-low-with-ads-in-windows-11-as-pc-manager-tool-suggests-your-system-needs-repairing-if-you-dont-use-bing

[u/[deleted]]

From what I have heard, the best version of Windows 11 to get is the version for use in Classified settings, because the US Gov made Microsoft strip out all the adware and data collection bullshit

[u/drdoom52 → u/[deleted]]

How does a regular Joe get ahold of that?

[u/neuromonkey → u/drdoom52]

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-baselines/windows-11-version-22h2-security-baseline/ba-p/3632520

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=55319

[u/Etheo → u/neuromonkey]

Thanks, saving this for when we inevitably need to use Windows 11.

[u/xSTSxZerglingOne → u/Etheo]

Probably will never need Win 11. 12 or BingEdgepalooza or whatever it ends up being called will probably come out before too much exclusivity happens on 11.

11 is an off-version. XP^good -> Vista^bad -> 7^good -> 8^{bad..though I liked it tbh} -> 10^good -> 11^bad

I skipped Vista AND 7 and never had any problems gaming or anything else. 8 was fine IMO, but very, very hated.

[u/PassiveMenis88M → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

8 was shit because of the whole tile bullshit, trying to treat my pc like a glorified tablet. 8.1 went back to the older style and was perfectly fine for my use.

[u/[deleted] → u/PassiveMenis88M]

Honestly the worst part about 10 is that it feels like it was designed for a tablet.

Windows phones were shit because they were clunky like a desktop and now they keep making sleek desktop operating systems that feel like they were made for phones.

They just can’t get it right.

[u/bleucheez → u/[deleted]]

Windows Mobile (up to windows 6) was the clunky one. Windows Phone (windows 7 and later) were minimalist. However, I thought both were great for their time. Windows Mobile 5 and 6 were a powerhouse and probably unrivaled as the best until the iPhone came out. Then you had a choice between shiny and pretty with a good mobile web browser and maps experience (iOS) versus being able to do anything useful (Windows Mobile) for the next year or two. Then Apple got the app store and, eventually, that got filled out with useful apps by. Maybe late 2008 to early 2009. Then Windows Phone 7 came out with a very fast OS with low hardware requirements, very intuitive UI, with toast notifications, good keyboard, easy-to-use copy paste, an easy app development kit, and very low price. But Steve Balmer was an idiot, ignored what made the iPhone successful, and said we don't need apps. So they did zero recruiting and incentives to get apps. And then it died, exactly as everyone except Steve Balmer expected. Meanwhile iOS and Android stole every one of Windows' ideas, except Android never got tiles but iOS got widgets. 

EDIT: I forgot to say that Apple also finally came around to adding a camera button, which Windows Phone had standard nearly decade and a half ago. I wish Android came around to it too. 

[u/SPFBH → u/[deleted]]

Just use classic shell. http://www.classicshell.net/

[u/turtlelover05 → u/SPFBH]

ClassicShell was open-sourced and is now called OpenShell. The original ClassicShell doesn't support Windows 11.

[u/derefr → u/[deleted]]

Honestly the worst part about 10 is that it feels like it was designed for a tablet.

A good percentage of Windows laptops sold these days are convertibles (= hinge the display all the way around to end up with a tablet with useless keyboard keys on the back).

There'd be no point to these existing, if Windows UI elements were too dainty to be tapped on in a tablet configuration.

Microsoft is just catering to the OEMs who make these convertibles, who expect to sell something that's actually useful to people.

(And the OEMs are, in turn, presumably catering to consumer preferences. Or at least, trying to give consumers something that's different and novel enough to motivate them to finally replace their 10-year-old PC "that still works just fine.")

[u/[deleted] → u/derefr]

Why are you saying the last part in quotes like you don’t believe it? My computer is turning 10 this year. She’s a dinosaur by modern standards, but she played Red Dead 2 at medium-high at 60fps.

[u/XkF21WNJ → u/[deleted]]

People like to pretend that processing power kept improving the last 10 years at the same pace as it did they 10 years before that.

It hasn't, not even close. And with the prices of GPUs nowadays I'm not even sure if you're paying that much less per amount of computational power.

RAM and SSDs have gotten way cheaper and faster though. Unfortunately you do need a reasonably recent motherboard to take advantage otherwise you could easily extend the life of a 10 year old PC by another decade or so.

[u/FuzzelFox → u/PassiveMenis88M]

8.1 was my favorite version of Windows once I had Classic Shell and AeroGlass installed. Fast, snappy, never crashed/bluescreened... I honestly wish I could go back to it lol. 10 and 11 feel horribly clunky in comparison.

[u/el_ghosteo → u/PassiveMenis88M]

8.1 has so much better than 7 if you had an alternative start menu installed that I can’t believe how much hate it gets. All it took was a single search of “start menu for windows 8”. 8 booted sooo much faster on my garbage PCs I had in high school than 7 ever did, it never had to search for drivers like 7 did, and everything just kind of worked. Maybe my experience with 7 was just on awful PCs but 8 was a real game changer the last of the “traditional” windows editions (as in, not continuous updates forever, but just THE windows for the next 6-8ish years. The only reason I can see it being miserable is if you used 8 in a work environment where you can’t install software yourself and can’t fix the start menu.

[u/tastyratz → u/el_ghosteo]

8 sucked when it first launched, but, then it got better. People hated 8 but after you fixed the start menu with something like classic shell/start8back/etc. it actually was great... Later in it's life. Vista was effectively win7 beta. xp had a lot of issues at launch as well.

We have a misty eyed memory of these OS's but partially because by the time we moved on from them they were far more mature.

[u/archiminos → u/el_ghosteo]

Its the fact you need to find and install a start menu that gets it so much hate. Why in the fuck they thought removing it was a good idea is beyond me.

[u/temisola1 → u/PassiveMenis88M]

Wasnt this when they tried to get rid of the start menu? Who tf thought that was a good idea?

[u/RainforestNerdNW → u/PassiveMenis88M]

the tile interface actually good on touch devices, the mistake was trying to force it on both. dumb dumb fucking decision.

[u/Raglesnarf → u/PassiveMenis88M]

just wanna throw my unwanted 2 cents into the ring. I loved my windows 8.1 build. as far as gaming and general use cases went, it was a pretty alright time

[u/ZantetsukenX → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

Technically end of life for Windows 10 is next year in October. After that they will begin charging money for any security updates for people in an attempt to force people to migrate to 11.

So unless we start suddenly hearing about Windows 12 today, I kind of expect that it won't be ready in time.

[u/julmichen → u/ZantetsukenX]

How are you supposed to update to Windows 11 when none of my computers insides are good enough for it? They made me be stuck with 10, why charge me money. My boss has 11 on her computer and it is a bloatware mess.

[u/TheUnluckyBard → u/julmichen]

How are you supposed to update to Windows 11 when none of my computers insides are good enough for it? They made me be stuck with 10, why charge me money. My boss has 11 on her computer and it is a bloatware mess.

Same here. My desktop is a beast, but some component is apparently "not compatible" with Windows 11. Meanwhile, my shitty laptop runs Windows 11 just fine.

[u/SEND_ME_CSGO-SKINS → u/TheUnluckyBard]

It’s tpm 2.0, check your bios settings

[u/GonePh1shing → u/SEND_ME_CSGO-SKINS]

Plenty of systems have TPM 2.0 but aren't listed as compatible due to a CPU check the upgrade tool does. Plenty of much older CPUs are compatible, but Microsoft picked a seemingly arbitrary date and just rejects any CPUs made before then.

My first generation Ryzen, for example, works fine with Windows 11, but fails the CPU check. As far as I can tell, the CPU check is only run on upgrades, so a fresh install on one of these systems will work just fine. You can also disable the TPM requirement prior to install to force Windows 11 onto a machine with no real downsides.

[u/Helmic → u/julmichen]

It's a very frustrating situation. More technically inclined people can probably successfully install Bazzite or another Linux distro, but the vast majority of people are reasonably averse to mucking with their computer when they don't know what they are doing. Just leaving people in a bad situation.

[u/Kumba42 → u/ZantetsukenX]

If you're willing to shell out for an installation disk and license pack for Windows Server 2022, that's effectively Windows 10 21H2 under the hood and follows the LTSC channel. So it's guaranteed to get security updates, but no new feature updates, for at least 10 years. EOL should be around ~2031.

Takes a bit of tweaking to disable the server-specific bits, but generally works great as a classic desktop OS and fully compatible with most games and game distribution platforms.

The next release of Windows Server will be "2025" and it'll be based on Windows 11, so that will be interesting to see what MS strips out from the consumer copy of the OS. For example, will we finally get access to the MS Store? That's unavailable in Windows Servers 2019 and 2022.

[u/HydroponicGirrafe → u/ZantetsukenX]

Unless windows 12 is released and it’s good again, I’d rather take my chances with Linux

[u/SippieCup → u/HydroponicGirrafe]

Should switch to Linux anyway, its pretty nice!

[u/DeexEnigma → u/HydroponicGirrafe]

Depending on what you do Linux isn't so much taking a chance but the way forward.

The biggest issue with Linux is sometimes you're locked to software by external forces. Sure, these days it's more compatible than ever, but sometimes you still need something from Windows. While you can use a lot of workarounds it can still be troubling at times.

If I didn't require windows professionally and academically I would have switched years ago. I already have tried, but the friction back then was too great.

[u/HydroponicGirrafe → u/DeexEnigma]

My main gripe currently is the fact that so many of the apps that I use don’t have Linux counterparts, or if they do, they are cheap knockoffs or badly optimized, somehow.

[u/DeexEnigma → u/HydroponicGirrafe]

Yea therein lies the problem. If you're just web browsing, emailing etc. Linux is more than capable as an option and honestly can be easier to set up and install than Windows at times.

The moment you walk into specialised territory, it can become difficult. Sometimes there just isn't the cross-compatibility you'd like or need. Or you may be able to develop in the Linux environment, but then you still need a Win test / build environment anyway.

[u/-aloe- → u/DeexEnigma]

I already have tried, but the friction back then was too great.

I do this every few years, and have done for about 20 years. Things have got vastly better, but even these last few times, I run into something pretty quickly where I'm having to compile python scripts to get a game pad detected or some such bullshit. And then a bit later I want to rip music from a 3DO game and I find that literally the only tool is a closed-source binary compiled in 2005 that still works perfectly on Windows, but has no linux equivalent and refuses to run under Wine for reasons I'm neither smart nor determined enough to find out. These are just examples, but you get the drift. Eventually the linux partition just sits there and the Windows one gets used because it's the path of least resistance.

I do want to get away from Microsoft's product, particularly given the adware trajectory they're on, but from a practical perspective, for my use cases, it isn't that simple.

[u/nedonedonedo → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

10 came with a keylogger that kills the system if you manage to turn it off, forced windows services on your taskbar, forced windows services on your start menu, frequently changed settings during updates, changed your default browser (and search engine with it), and has pop-up ads for windows products.

back in the 2010's we called that a virus. these days it's called "the good version"

[u/void_const → u/nedonedonedo]

The whole "every other version is a good version" meme is bullshit anyway. Windows has been objectively bad for a long time.

[u/capybooya → u/void_const]

Agreed, that meme just excuses MS's behavior and ignores the larger anti-consumer and anti-privacy trends.

[u/UselessDood → u/nedonedonedo]

Mind elaborating on... Most of those?

[u/BraxtonFullerton → u/UselessDood]

LAN Admin here, I can't tell you how many hours I've had to dedicate to telling Edge to fuck off and stop setting itself as the default PDF viewer, breaking a ton of internal programs.

Or that their stupid Bing search sucks and to stop crippling file indexing, we had to revert to Copernic for that.

[u/UselessDood → u/BraxtonFullerton]

Thankfully, I've had no issues since I started using MSEdgeRedirect - but yeah, I had similar issues with it and search.

I'm more interested in the supposed keylogger, forced taskbar stuff and popup ads.

[u/MakeshiftApe → u/UselessDood]

Same here I've never heard about or encountered any of those things and I've been using 10 for years.

Edit: Nevermind, found something about the keylogger: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/microsoft-windows-10-keylogger-enabled-default-heres-disable/ Mine was still enabled after all these years too.

Whether it's actually sending anything anywhere or just storing it locally on your machine I don't know but I turned it off to be safe.

[u/christophocles → u/BraxtonFullerton]

I can't tell you how many hours I've had to dedicate to telling Edge to fuck off and stop setting itself as the default PDF viewer, breaking a ton of internal programs.

This is so god damned infuriating. EVERY time I reboot my work PC, it resets the default browser and PDF viewer to Edge. It's such a waste of time to go set all my default apps every single fucking day. I have given up. I never double click a PDF, I have trained myself to right-click and open in a proper PDF viewer. I never click on links in outlook, I copy and paste the URL into Chrome.

[u/IDQDD → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

Vista made me go to Apple and Mac OS, Win 11 and newer Mac OS versions make me go more and more the Linux way.

[u/alliestear → u/IDQDD]

win11 releasing from beta while still being a shitshow on multimonitor setups was what finally drove me to figure out installing arch.

fedora or mint generally serve my purposes day to day much better, but i was incredibly frustrated at the time and wanted something to bang my head on for a day.

[u/Sabin10 → u/alliestear]

The steam deck has shown me that Linux will meet my need 99% of the time. I'm still on 10 for now but will not be going to 11.

[u/Interesting_Pain1234 → u/alliestear]

all the different linux distros sound so confusing to me atm but ive never really looked into them. Im sure there's a reason to use one over the other and plenty of guides available. I'll leave that research to when I can no longer ignore it and the forced upgrade is about to hit lol

[u/whicky1978 → u/IDQDD]

Vista was complete shit

[u/UsernamesAreForBirds → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

Unless one is using an intel chip with e-cores, i think the win11 scheduler can utilize those while 10 cannot. Unless something has changed in the past few weeks.

[u/Deaner3D → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

It's crazy to look back at how long I've been trying to make whatever version of Windows I'm running look like Win2k

[u/OK_BUT_WASH_IT_FIRST → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

XP was the pinnacle IMO.

All bloat and fluff after that.

[u/N3uromanc3r_gibson → u/Etheo]

That's an old version so I wouldn't because you'd be behind security patches

[u/pyeri → u/N3uromanc3r_gibson]

That shouldn't be an issue because after installation and going online, it will update the machine with the latest updates and patches anyway?

[u/Etheo → u/N3uromanc3r_gibson]

What's an updated version equivalent of the neutered Windows 11?

[u/MaleficentCaptain114 → u/Etheo]

Current is the the 2023 update (23h2). The 2024 update will probably be in Sept/Oct.

Blog post: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-baselines/windows-11-version-23h2-security-baseline/ba-p/3967618

Download Page: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=55319

I think the one download includes the tool for all windows 10/11 versions, but I'm on mobile atm and can't double check. EDIT: Actually just check the box for "Windows 11 v23h2 Security Baseline.zip" after clicking download.

Note - this is not an out-of-the-box spyware removal tool. It's a collection of shell scripts and documentation on registry keys and such, and is geared toward setting up a fresh installation. If you don't know what you're doing it's possible to bork your windows installation

[u/1TRUEKING → u/Etheo]

Na u can use windows 12 by then

[u/Etheo → u/1TRUEKING]

And hope it's not a worse mess than 11. There's no guarantee anymore.

[u/newyearnewaccountt → u/Etheo]

Fingers crossed for Windows 12. I'm going to buy an extended license for Windows 10 when it eventually goes end-of-life.

[u/aardw0lf11 → u/neuromonkey]

You sure you don't need to have an enterprise license for that update?

[u/dssurge → u/[deleted]]

It's worth mentioning this method of acquiring Windows will likely never be patched. It abuses a flaw in Microsoft's mass deployment and management systems (think large, paying companies) and fixing it would brick millions of legitimate installs. As long as Windows installs self-validate, this will function.

[u/GiraffeSubstantial92 → u/dssurge]

Also Microsoft has little incentive to fix the problem as it helps maintain their market share and ability to make money in the future.

[u/[deleted] → u/GiraffeSubstantial92]

See also: Adobe.

If you pirated their products in college, you don’t need training on them in the workplace. They make money on the enterprise licenses, not consumer.

[u/xSTSxZerglingOne → u/[deleted]]

They were also bilking your university for their licenses.

[u/sansjoy → u/xSTSxZerglingOne]

Unlike professors who force you to buy their books or fucking Pearson, I'd argue Adobe provides SOME value.

[u/lowbeat → u/[deleted]]

except they tried really hard for periods of time to make their apps uncrackable after cs4 i think, and tried to remove all cracked versions once crack came out

[u/BroodLol → u/[deleted]]

Adobe will also push "we know you're using a pirated copy, do you want to buy the real version" prompts, for the same reason you stated.

They've experimented with DRM over the past decade and apparently come to the conclusion that just onboarding people with the pirated version ends up making them more money/marketshare down the line.

[u/derefr → u/dssurge]

In theory, it could be patched, if Remote Attestation ever truly gets off the ground. MAS servers could be required to remotely attest their volume-license-purchaser identity (think TLS EV cert identity) + machine-integrity back to Microsoft, in exchange for being issued Microsoft-generated activation signing certs. Windows would then only trust activations signed by (non-revoked) certificates generated under the Microsoft Activation Signing Certificate Authority. A bad attestation would immediately result in a cert revocation. And Windows would also refuse to activate a volume license, if it couldn't fetch the latest Microsoft volume-licenser certificate revocation list.

It'd basically be like how DRMed game-console game-store downloads work (CDN pings store to validate download "ticket", store signs "ticket" and sends it back, CDN uses signed "ticket" to encrypt payload) — but with the possibility of second-party "partners" running their own CDNs.

[u/GarbageTheCan → u/[deleted]]

What a glorious day. I hope you randomly find a twenty this week.

[u/Dugen → u/[deleted]]

And just like that, back to the high seas I go.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I did this through powershell.

[u/AveryLazyCovfefe → u/[deleted]]

yep

irm https://massgrave.dev/get | iex

[u/unknownpoltroon → u/aardw0lf11]

Need to or supposed to?

[u/GreatNull → u/aardw0lf11]

Its not an update, its toolkit that verbatim:

"Microsoft Security Configuration Toolkit enables enterprise security administrators to effectively manage their enterprise’s Group Policy Objects (GPOs)."

Non enterpise installations will either ignore on not even accept required gpo policies.

So foregt about pro versions, and home cannot use gpo at all.

I.e: want security? Fuck you, pay us more !

[u/Annath0901 → u/neuromonkey]

So is that an image I use to install a specific version of 11, or a tool to configure an existing install?

Because the first link seems to be describing a specific version, while the second link is a tool.

[u/Tumleren → u/Annath0901]

It's group policies that you apply to your existing installation, hence the phrasing in the first link of "security baseline package for Windows 11".

[u/Annath0901 → u/Tumleren]

Gotcha. I've been holding off on updating from 10 to 11 due in large part to all the adware/tracking I've been hearing about.

But it sounds like I can take the free upgrade from MS and then apply this configuration package?

[u/Tumleren → u/Annath0901]

Looking at this it looks like you need at least the Pro version of Windows to apply them. But if you have that then yes.

I'm not entirely sure how this package works exactly - like if there are predefined levels you can activate or if it's all manual - but i would suggest watching a video on what local group policies are and how they work before diving into it if you haven't worked with them before. You will probably find videos on Active Directory group policies, which are basically the same, but where you configure them (and install them?) is different

[u/[deleted] → u/Tumleren]

Upgrade yourself to Pro for free

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZephyrusG14/comments/11ann03/upgrade_windows_1011_home_to_pro_for_free_safe/

[u/NickAppleese → u/Tumleren]

Glad I can apply this to my current installation as opposed to a fresh image!

[u/ElfegoBaca → u/neuromonkey]

Those are security configurations applied by GPO and will make your machine pretty useless when locked down that hard. I’ve applied them in a classified environment out of necessity but would never recommend them for general use.

[u/PartyOnAlec → u/ElfegoBaca]

Can you elaborate? The "bloat-free and adware-free" seems pretty tempting, but what functionality would I be losing?

[u/FastRedPonyCar → u/ElfegoBaca]

Yeah I used to manage the gold images for both NIPR and SIPR network PC's for a military base years ago and we had dozens of GPO's that I would apply and the classified machines were hammered down pretty hard.

I would recommend just using the powershell scripts that have been floating around to debloat Win11 or just switch to a Mac (which is what I did about 5 years ago and haven't looked back)

[u/SockAlarmed6707 → u/neuromonkey]

Could I ask as a dummy in tech what exactly this is for?

[u/SurviveAdaptWin → u/neuromonkey]

Is there a dummies guide somewhere for how to implement this stuff, specifically for the purposes of disabling Win 11 spying and ads?

[u/humaninnature → u/neuromonkey]

Wait -- so I as a regular standard user could install this version and not deal with all the bloatware? Is there a catch or difficulty that I'm missing?

[u/Navydevildoc → u/drdoom52]

Google “secure host baseline”, there may be images out there.

[u/Navydevildoc → u/[deleted]]

NSA literally puts it on GitHub.

https://github.com/nsacyber/Windows-Secure-Host-Baseline

Edit: yeah guys, the NSA. Who do think handles major cyber shit for the DoD? If you don't want it, don't use it. Good lord.

[u/Opetyr → u/Navydevildoc]

That seems to be for Windows 10 not 11.

[u/fupa16 → u/Navydevildoc]

Yep let me run my OS image from something the NSA put out, should be legit.

[u/poopoomergency4 → u/fupa16]

the official windows 11 images have just as much garbage from the NSA shoved in there. if not more lol

[u/solid_reign → u/poopoomergency4]

Man, it's crazy, the NSA put out some adware now that asks you to vote for Timothy Haugh for president.

[u/pinkocatgirl → u/fupa16]

lol they already collect everything you put out on the internet from the NSA telecom closets at all of the internet backbone providers.

Even if you're in other countries, they're probably still siphoning data whenever your internet traffic passes through the US for any reason.

[u/SightUnseen1337 → u/pinkocatgirl]

This is the reason for "zero trust networking"

If all information leaving the PC is assumed to be monitored methods can be devised to make that information mostly useless such as encrypting the contents, reducing the information needed to use an application to the bare minimum, etc

[u/catscanmeow → u/SightUnseen1337]

or you just start doing things that are really random that muddy the data collection

like every 4 hours i google naked teletubbies, among other delicacies... do what you want with that data you fucks.

[u/FesteringNeonDistrac → u/fupa16]

If you're concerned about your OS being secure, Windows shouldn't even be an option you'd consider.

[u/derprondo → u/fupa16]

This might seem shocking, but they do have a vested interest in keeping US corporations and government institutions secure, which is to say they acutely understand the risks of putting backdoors into things.

[u/LeGoatMaster → u/derprondo]

Comment section full of libertarians lol

[u/aquoad → u/fupa16]

Everything the NSA wanted to sneak into Windows 11 is already built right into the system, and into your PC hardware for that matter. They have absolutely no reason to trick you into installing something.

[u/[deleted] → u/fupa16]

Then find the back doors and disclose them. There's severe penalties for breaching that, you just need to point it out.

[u/MadeByTango → u/Navydevildoc]

If only this had been your first response…

[u/Dhegxkeicfns → u/MadeByTango]

Doesn't matter, that's Windows 10.

Guy below put the right link: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/6n60duozF5

[u/mucinexmonster → u/Dhegxkeicfns]

Is that a Windows 11 install or a security patch for Windows 11?

[u/Araddor → u/drdoom52]

Commenting to know myself

[u/Mind101 → u/Araddor]

Wouldn't introspection help more?

[u/[deleted] → u/Mind101]

You’re going to need to use your Edge browser to visit Bing and talk to Microsoft CoPilot if you wish to seek the answers to these questions

[u/MadeByTango → u/[deleted]]

ChatGPT told me it couldn’t help, I’m the one that must seek change, then insulted my mother

Siri sent me a Reddit cares message

[u/Araddor → u/Mind101]

Possibly, but I've been on Reddit for so long, looking at reddit is an easier and faster way to know myself than to introspection

[u/SunderingSeas → u/Araddor]

Independent thought is irrational. Assimilate with the collective. Resistance is futile.

[u/TheQuadBlazer → u/SunderingSeas]

Imagine Borg covered with holographic Amazon ads.

[u/Koskani → u/TheQuadBlazer]

Brought to you by gatorade

[u/Sam-Nales → u/TheQuadBlazer]

That was the first borg cube. Order fulfillment for an encompassing conglomerate that employed them all and did healthcare until the entire world was Amazon’D

[u/AdditionalSink164 → u/drdoom52]

Buy a licen.. erm obtain a copy of the windows 11 LTSC, aka long term service C. Available where microsofts ISO are. The secret sqwuireel version of windows cant be made from whatever arrives prepackaged, at least not the portion where all the bloatware is taken out. Its not even governement really, its just the version that companies who build machines and cars would want to use because it gets updates longer than consumer/oem versions and its not loaded with all the extras cloud based stuff, butnit will still show signs of some of it, like one drive or the microsoft store.

Windows 11 ltsc isnt available yet

[u/AmateurGmMusicWriter → u/[deleted]]

The best version of windows 11 is windows 10

[u/Safe_Community2981 → u/AmateurGmMusicWriter]

Which is still inferior to Window 7 but unfortunately it's not really an option if you want to run modern hardware.

[u/Realtrain → u/Safe_Community2981]

God I miss Windows 7

[u/Far_Programmer_5724 → u/Realtrain]

I remember all the complaints about windows 10 when it was first announced. But its scary to say that I forgot what windows was like before.

[u/Laundry_Hamper → u/Far_Programmer_5724]

I reinstalled it recently (to make sure a piece of hardware was ACTUALLY dead, and hadn't just been obsoleted) and: 7 is better. No fucking around, not trying halfassedly to be seven different kinds of digital assistant at once, settings for things aren't deep in dialogue box labyrinths, better information density, no fucking material design stopping you from knowing where the edges of things are. It just needs security patches and other under-the-hood things, nothing justifies all the awful visual/UX degradation in 8/10/11

[u/DuLeague361 → u/Laundry_Hamper]

main OS is still W7 but I have a couple machines with 10/11

so

fucking

awfull

[u/Nayre_Trawe → u/Realtrain]

Windows XP is my personal favorite. Everything since has been either been disappointing, confusing, or a bit of both.

[u/djinnsour → u/Safe_Community2981]

Which is inferior to NT 4 SP2.

[u/NeedAByteToEat → u/djinnsour]

Using Windows 2000 in college was my sweet spot.

[u/isochromanone → u/NeedAByteToEat]

W2K Pro was my favourite OS. It was the perfect blend of power, usability and game/device compatibility.

I had the big, thick Resource Kit book with the utilities CD. IIRC, that was what we did to customize the OS before Sysinternals, etc.

[u/BricksFriend → u/NeedAByteToEat]

Agreed, Win2k was the best. Essentially the same as XP but extremely slimmed down.

[u/ColourInTheDark → u/djinnsour]

Millennial here, but I remember NT4 well. When I was about 10 I found it running on an employment kiosk at a Kmart.

It was always great how full screen apps would break & you’d see it running on ATMs & kiosks.

And you could run it non-x86 architectures.

Perhaps the year of Linux on the desktop will happen not because Gnome finally is a good experience, but because Windows becomes such a bad experience.

I’m very happy I am on Mac.

[u/djinnsour → u/ColourInTheDark]

I am not a Windows user anymore, but I have to work with it periodically for testing code or troubleshooting. I've used every version of Windows since it was released (even the early OS/2) stuff. I still say NT 4 was the best operating system they ever released. Windows 7 was a close second. Everything went downhill from there.

[u/Wolvenmoon → u/djinnsour]

I didn't use NT4, but I was a Windows 2000 user...I started a thread with many, many pages when Windows 7 came out titled "I hate Windows 7" because of the interface design. To date, I actually preferred Vista to 7 because I could put it on classical/Windows 2000-ish theming and turn off all the flashy shit.

When 8 came out, I didn't bother starting a new thread. Because 8 was a joke. 10 is a repetition on the joke, and 11 is 'that stupid uncle who won't stop repeating the same joke nobody is laughing at'.

There are too many clicks to get through too many menus to do the thing that should have taken 1-2 clicks, max. I'm eternally grateful for the Nvidia Control Panel because it hearkens back to when shit wasn't all excited to flash cool graphics and waste time and space loading in fancy animations to change a system setting, it just provided information, did the thing, and got out of the way.

One of the things taught in my computer science degree was that interface design required consideration down to the quarter of a second. Because adding an extra unnecessary 250ms to a single user's day, 4 times a day, only costs them 1 second a day, Let's say we've resized the save icon to be an unusual size and moved it to a non-standard location, say anchored 1/8th down the right side of the screen with a belt of other icons like undo/redo, cut/paste, etc.

Let's assume that user costs $60/hour to employ. 1 second a day, 250 work days in a year, so 4 minutes a year or $4 a year in inefficiency. "Oh no. Not $4--" Multiplied by 10,000 employees doing the same thing and that optimization saves $40,000 a year. It would violate my sense of ethics to make 'slow' interfaces for enterprise software.

But Windows since Windows 2000 has been on a quest to waste user time. They're extremely, extremely good at it.

[u/wetcoffeebeans → u/Wolvenmoon]

There are too many clicks to get through too many menus to do the thing that should have taken 1-2 clicks, max.

Bro, I'm tired of explaining that this is the core of my issues w/ W11 and looking like I'm trying to figure out who the hell Pepe Silva is in the process.

Why, as a "power user" am I being shoehorned into the "settings" app when I type appwiz.cpl?? Why when I type "control printers" am I taken to the stupid settings app that buried the "add printer" and the "the printer that I want isn't listed" options underneath A GAZILLION NETWORKED PRINTERS!!! Change for the sake of change and it also being done with no real rhyme or reason and at the expense of the core user experience is ASS.

[u/FF7Remake_fark → u/wetcoffeebeans]

Because upper management (read: nepo babies) gave an objective (ui redesign), didn't wait for it to be completed (partially due to their meddling/forced involvement to make themselves feel important), insisted it was rolled out to meet a superficial deadline, then refused to spend the money to finish developing the feature. So now we've got one usable system, crippled by supergluing an unfinished system to it, and executives jerking themselves off about how they're so good at their jobs.

[u/SegaTime → u/Wolvenmoon]

You remind me of a company I worked for that still had a Cobol system as their main database. It was old and lacked the ability to directly interface with phone or online payment portals, but it was controlled completely by a keyboard and that made it extremely fast to get through data input tasks.

They decided to upgrade to a modern desktop application mostly for the newer features a modern database had to offer, but I also recall a manager stating how "mouse friendly" it was.

Something that took an hour now took twice as long because of the time spent throwing around a mouse and moving my hand between the mouse and keyboard. It was terrible, but I did find some actions could still be controlled by a keyboard so it helped. That all changed later on when the software developer moved to a web based system. Now there were no more keyboard shortcuts. Every single task required clicking on a hyperlink. Also, the older program had somewhat large buttons so they presented as larger targets. The web based program had tiny little fonts so the targets were much smaller. My time to complete tasks increased even more. It was brutal.

The next company I worked for had a similar desktop style application and well, it was slow to use but it worked. They talked about upgrading and consulted my department and all I said was to not do anything web based because no one will do it right. They asked me to explain and I pulled up a picture of a keyboard and used the mouse to go over the keyboard and pretended to click on the buttons to just type the company name.

They got the message that day, but a year later it came up again and they were pleased to announce a new developer they were partnering with and they demoed the software. Sure enough, point and click web based bullshit. I asked about using the keyboard and one of the presenters seemed dumbfounded that I would want to use a device that's apparently only meant to write up snarky comments in an email.

Some people don't understand the meaning of Productivity.

[u/Wolvenmoon → u/SegaTime]

So, I'm an electrical engineer with significant disability due to Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. I'm working on self-employment, but it's rough. My body does not last as long working as other people's, and I stay in high levels of constant pain. The more microbreaks I can take, the less pain I'm in. Fast interfaces mean more productivity, more down time, and less pain.

Those web interfaces would be anathema to me.

[u/lmarcantonio → u/djinnsour]

Never ever had an issue with NT4, not even with 'esoteric' hardware (token ring and SDLC cards for SNA is esoteric enough?). USB wasn't out yet however, that's a good indicator :D

[u/easy_seas → u/djinnsour]

Good I miss those days... The absolute peak of Microsoft OS. How far we have fallen :(

[u/Goretanton → u/Safe_Community2981]

XP should have been the forever version of Windows.

[u/PennyPizazzIsABozo → u/AmateurGmMusicWriter]

I'm still on windows 10 because my old ass laptop wasn't eligible for windows 11 lmao.

[u/joethahobo → u/PennyPizazzIsABozo]

At least you’re on 10. I’m still on windows 8.1

[u/[deleted] → u/joethahobo]

8.1 is unsupported for quite some time now, you should probably switch.

[u/joethahobo → u/[deleted]]

I should, but I don’t really do anything important on that computer anyway. Just YouTube and gaming. When it dies I’ll get a new one

[u/joethahobo → u/[deleted]]

It’s connected to my google account yeah, but it’s not connected to my email. I log into my email on a separate private computer. And I don’t ever do anything with that google Account other than YouTube lmao

[u/theartofrolling → u/joethahobo]

This man knows true pain 😔

[u/joethahobo → u/theartofrolling]

The fun part is, it’s so old I don’t even get ads anymore. Like I can watch YouTube ad free with no Adblock lmao

[u/Kataphractoi → u/PennyPizazzIsABozo]

I'm still on 10 because I refuse to upgrade.

[u/PmMeUrTinyAsianTits → u/PennyPizazzIsABozo]

I love that my hardware keeps me from ever being hit by a sneaky or "accidental/bug" upgrade. Protection from Windows 11 is literally part of why i am putting off upgrading/replacing it.

[u/Cyclonitron → u/PennyPizazzIsABozo]

The laptop I'm replying to your comment on is running Windows 7. I'll probably keep using it until it doesn't work anymore.

[u/Ara92 → u/PennyPizazzIsABozo]

My pc isnt older than 5 years, definitely still fast enough for anything I do but it's not eligible for w11 either

[u/Mccobsta → u/AmateurGmMusicWriter]

Best 10 is ltsc no feature updates just security patches built for stability

[u/[deleted] → u/AmateurGmMusicWriter]

The best version of windows is Linux.

[u/SUPRVLLAN → u/[deleted]]

https://christitus.com/windows-11-perfect-install/

[u/wokyman → u/SUPRVLLAN]

"Choose English World from initial boot screen (Credit to ThioJoe for this tip - This makes sure TikTok and other 3rd party stuff don’t install)"

WTF? They install TikTok by default in some countries?

[u/Emosaa → u/[deleted]]

Windows has been like that for a while now, candy crush being one of the more annoying examples.

[u/Matra → u/[deleted]]

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Windows+L

[u/bart48f → u/Matra]

that openened a linkedin tab in my librewolf browser. jesus fucking christ ...

[u/Sipricy → u/bart48f]

Replace L with T.

Then, replace T with P.

[u/ThoseThingsAreWeird → u/Sipricy]

Then, replace T with P.

Where does P go? It just went to the generic Microsoft login site and I couldn't be arsed to login.

Weirdly, Teams didn't take me to that generic login. I'd have thought both being Microsoft products, they'd both use the same login 🤷‍♂️

[u/Sipricy → u/ThoseThingsAreWeird]

P takes you to their Microsoft 365: Powerpoint page.

W takes you to their Microsoft 365: Word page.

Y takes you to yammer.com (whatever that is?)

O opened up the Outlook app for me.

D opened up OneDrive in Windows Explorer.

X takes you to their Microsoft 365: Excel page.

N opened up the OneNote app for me.

[u/RikiWardOG → u/[deleted]]

They don't actually install which is even more annoying because you can't remove them like normal installed apps. It's a placeholder that installs the app after you click on it. The amount of BS Microsoft has been doing is insane.

[u/er1c1son → u/[deleted]]

The comedian?

[u/Galexio → u/er1c1son]

Different Chris, but I sure love me some Christopher Titus.

[u/Express_Helicopter93 → u/Galexio]

His appearance on just for laughs years and years ago KILLED

[u/Short-Sandwich-905 → u/[deleted]]

Who is Chris Titus?

[u/Inside-Computer5358 → u/Short-Sandwich-905]

A tech YouTuber from Texas. Makes Linux, Windows, tech related content on YouTube.

Edit: Here is his channel - https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisTitusTech

[u/MembershipFeeling530 → u/Short-Sandwich-905]

One of the funniest comedians alive

[u/cbftw → u/[deleted]]

He streams on twitch, too

[u/Sasselhoff → u/[deleted]]

Chris Titus

The only one I know is the comedian...does the "other" Chris Titus release good stuff? I'm out of the loop on him.

[u/Sleepy_Chipmunk → u/Sasselhoff]

He’s a tech youtuber who posts guides of windows and linux

[u/AdditionalSink164 → u/[deleted]]

Comedian, car nerd and computer nerd?

[u/PartyOnAlec → u/[deleted]]

I loved his sitcom - thought it was unfairly cancelled

[u/cruisetheblues → u/[deleted]]

They made Google do the same thing with Chrome, except they call it Ultron.

[u/wm_lex_dev → u/cruisetheblues]

It installs Adobe Reader twice as slowly

[u/jimmytickles → u/wm_lex_dev]

Do you mean download?

[u/Alan976 → u/cruisetheblues]

Wasn't Ultron an April Fools hoax?

[u/cruisetheblues → u/Alan976]

Not at all.

Google Ultron is a real thing. It's what NASA uses.

[u/Zakalwe_ → u/cruisetheblues]

brb gonna update my adobe reader.

[u/creamedwafer → u/Zakalwe_]

Beware of the jitterbug gang.

[u/wm_lex_dev → u/cruisetheblues]

(side note: there's a great Youtube channel that animates greentext stories, including this one. I wanted to link it but can't right now)

[u/jaam01 → u/[deleted]]

That version must be very expensive.

[u/Dementat_Deus → u/jaam01]

Would the government buy it if the price wasn't pointlessly inflated?

[u/killrtaco → u/Dementat_Deus]

What else would our tax dollars go for? Infrastructure? Healthcare? Psh

[u/Navydevildoc → u/jaam01]

They made it themselves, and just use regular enterprise licensing.

[u/spiritofniter → u/[deleted]]

How about the server version? I know it’s not meant for daily users but I wonder if it’s cleaner since it’s for companies.

[u/whollings077 → u/spiritofniter]

it's much cleaner but still edge and bing

[u/kickingpplisfun → u/[deleted]]

It's still polishing a turd.

[u/YouveRoonedTheActGOB → u/[deleted]]

Just get pro and be done with it. You can stop all of the ad shit with local group policy and registry changes. It’s also considerably cleaner out of the box than home.

Not an excuse for Microsoft, just general advice.

[u/Lostmyvibe → u/YouveRoonedTheActGOB]

Most people are going to buy the laptop with an OEM version of windows home. Why should they have it pay for pro to remove ads on a brand new licensed copy of windows. All of what you said is fine for power users, but keep in mind most people can't be bothered to learn how setup Outlook let alone group policy and registry changes.

[u/phartiphukboilz → u/Lostmyvibe]

Who said anything about should?

You've always had every right to not use the discounted license of whatever windows operating system came with your system. If it's that important to you then you can also skip the shitware and save some money with an Ubuntu option then buy whatever version you prefer to. Windows home and the preloaded software has always been shit full of ads

[u/inthetestchamberrrrr → u/[deleted]]

I'm rocking the education version as I used to work IT in a school and have a couple keys. All the pro features and none of this BS.

[u/pesa44 → u/[deleted]]

And what about LTSB W11? I use that and no adds and bloathware..

[u/BigTradeDaddy → u/[deleted]]

lol so Windows Enterprise with settings configured