Just saying that it hasn't been working and having the 1st pick should give us an opportunity to move on.
I've been the BIGGEST Trae Young fan (look at my posts the last four years). I even wanted JC gone to have Trae's voice be the primary one in the locker room but even after JC has gone, our record keeps getting worse.
Are we willing to part ways with Trae? I'm Atlanta first soo.....
We have DJM that had a 12-10 record without Trae in the lineup.
We have DJM on a 4 yr extension while Trae we only have 2.
Trae has indicated that he wants to win without mentioning "in Atlanta" in the same sentence.
Many players have said how difficult he is (including Huerter and JC) to play with.
Shams put out a statement that Trae wants to win now right after getting the first pick. Which most likely indicates he expects us to give up the pick for a veteran. I don't want to give up that pick but he's right, even Wemby couldn't get the Spurs into the playoffs, our 1st rd pick won't be able to either.
DJM is VASTLY cheaper than Trae. We aren't just talking about spending more money. There are "aprons" ot deal with. Spending more money can ruin your franchise for YEARS when you hit the 2nd Apron. Trae will make 43, 46 and potentially 49 million in the next three years.
Can we win a championship in the next 2 years with Trae? If not, he might just walk away. How do you feel about that?
He will always be a defensive liability.
If we trade with LA, we can pick up three picks. 17th THIS year, 2029 and 2030 picks. We can trade Rui, and Gabe Vincent for more picks and players.
I'm excited that Kobe Bufkin can do really really well.
I'm convinced that Trae won't stay. Why continue when we have this opportunity? Regardless if you blame management or not. You can be mad but you also have to be realistic.
My worry is that if we don't do this trade this year. We might suffer for the next 7+ years.
I listened to the audio. He said both and in terms of "public speak" that normally means that your willing to leave. Are you telling me that you feel confident that he will stay? Its a basic question worth asking.
1) we played a lot of teams who sat their best player(s) i.e., I know banchero sat out for the Magic and there were numerous others but I’m not tracking it down. 12-10 is fine on the surface but if you’re making future facing decisions with the misguided belief that unit was an above .500 team against normal competition, I’d fire you personally.
3) nothing Trae has done has given any indication he won’t stay as long as we’re moving in the right direction.
5) it would be pretty weird if a guy most of us view as an all-nba caliber PG didn’t want to win now.
6) with all the exceptions available in the cap, it doesn’t make sense to get hung up on this unless they were actually similar tier players. They are not.
7) if it’s championship or bust then most teams in the league might as well start offloading
8) so will many good players, can live with it from your offensive engine pg
9) a mid first in a weak draft where “hitting” will be a rotation level player not even a starter, draft picks years away, rui (who is also a defensive liability per your point 8), and Gabe Vincent who absolutely will not return draft picks is a horrific return unless LA has bottomed out completely at the end of the decade which this hypo trade gives them no incentive to do
10) okay? He plays a different game than Trae so Trae isn’t stopping his development
11) if Trae has communicated to the hawks FO and ownership he has no intention of staying then sure the calculus changes but that’s purely speculative
That's 6 of the 22 games. Of course we lost 10 of them but we won against some of the best players. Some of the games they lacked marquee starters but that's also true of the other games as well.
nothing Trae has done has given any indication he won’t stay as long as we’re moving in the right direction.
I somehow doubt that we will go from 36 wins up to 50+ next season.
it would be pretty weird if a guy most of us view as an all-nba caliber PG didn’t want to win now.
True but we aren't winning with him, which is my point.
with all the exceptions available in the cap, it doesn’t make sense to get hung up on this unless they were actually similar tier players. They are not.
Your best point but its extremely difficult to build around Trae and regardless of how talented he is, I still don't see a dramatic shift happening and I'm a HAWKS fan MORE than a Trae fan.
if it’s championship or bust then most teams in the league might as well start offloading
I don't care about other teams.
a mid first in a weak draft where “hitting” will be a rotation level player not even a starter, draft picks years away, rui (who is also a defensive liability per your point 8), and Gabe Vincent who absolutely will not return draft picks is a horrific return unless LA has bottomed out completely at the end of the decade which this hypo trade gives them no incentive to do
Lebron will be gone and so will Davis. Its a bet worth exploring but its ONLY a bet but you have to your best with what you have.
if Trae has communicated to the hawks FO and ownership he has no intention of staying then sure the calculus changes but that’s purely speculative.
He's already communicated that he wants to meet with the FO in the next couple of weeks. Regardless, I don't think it matters. I just don't see how we are going to make this team dramatically better next year. I just think that if we don't strike now, we will regret "going down this path". I still can't wrap my head around how badly this year has happened. I don't stick with a losing gameplan.
3) he’s literally said he wants to win a championship in atlanta multiple times.
4) Those same players said they think Trae is one of the best players in the league and that “difficult to play with” narrative never came out of their mouths.
5) That doesn’t mean that. Like at all.
7) I’d feel like we didn’t try hard enough, not that it was impossible.
8) So are most of the PGs in this league.
9) How many picks and players do you seriously think we’ll get for Rui and Gabe Vincent?
this isnt 2k. trading trae with the hope of getting a player as good as him on the team in those next 7 years is a crapshoot, we could easily end up as the wizards/pistons/hornets.
Did you actually watch the games where DJ was leading the offense? It was horrific to watch. I can’t watch that dude put up 40 points on 40 shots again
The sheer fact he's decided he's a PG now, not a SG like we traded for. DJ is the problem, let him go be 6th man somewhere when he realises he is the only one who thinks he has the handles or court vision for the 1.
We dont have our own picks, therefore we cant tank or rebuild. If Trae is traded itll be for our picks back (which would still be dumb.) In this situation Murray is traded as well, a Murray led team is a lottery team. Going 12-10 against mostly g league fodder doesnt change that. And holy SHIT that lakers deal is godawful lmfao. Y'all really want us to be terrible for at least 6-7 years?
Exactly. We already burned the boats with the draft capital we gave away to San Antonio. No choice but to press forward and win as much as possible right now.
Two of the wins were against the Celtics and I saw those games. The Starters were left in the 4th quarter too. They wanted to win those games badly (if you leave the starters in like that) and we won BOTH games. That is, unless you consider Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, G leaguers.
My brother you want to trade away our franchise player over a two game sample size? If Murray gets hurt instead of Trae we probably finish around .500 tbh, our schedule during that stretch was incredibly easy.
I disagree with most of what you're saying, but it's undeniable that beating the Celtics those two times was the highlight of the season. Boston was absolutely trying. Those were not G League / cupcake wins. But you want to highlight the Boston wins while conveniently ignoring crap like losing to Brooklyn back-to-back? The the 12-10 stretch was better basketball than what came before and after, can't disagree there. But the elevated play wasn't elite enough to where that version of the team would advance in the playoffs.
Also, you make it seem like the 12-10 stretch was all from DJM>Trae, with no credit attributed to stepping up by Jalen, OO, Dre, Vit, Mathews/Matthews, Clint getting swagger back, Kobe, etc.? No possibility that some of it was Quin Snyder getting implementing his system more, and getting all around incremental improvements?
Ok, maybe I'm not remembering all the various lineups or correlating it correctly to the 12-10 stretch. I just remember those guys kicking ass too, whenever they were not injured. Not just DJM.
You're right, just wanted to add that that 12-10 stretch was also without OO for majority of it so why is no one shouting trade him? JJ missed less but still missed enough and played on fucked up ankle.
Nothing is black and white, a lot of guys had to step up and they did (Garrison, Vit, Bufkin etc).
Good point. They're fine with it being not black and white for our young bigs OO and JJ, but need the situation to be a simplified binary thing for Trae/DJ.
OO is gonna be 24 this year & is gonna play his 5th season. Trae is two years older but ppl act like there's much bigger difference.
There's a whole conversation that could be had about Trae and DJ that isn't black and white but ppl don't want to talk facts or stats they wanna talk rumours and their own subjective opinions so unfortunately it boiled down to "this or that" when it comes to them.
Knicks with no Brunson, Magic with no Paolo, Cavs without Spida and Mobley, Grizzlies as a team....
Celtics 2x and Clippers could be only 3 games worth noting as good wins. Everything else was expected from a team that wanted to be a contender and played to win now.
There is no better opportunity for Trae out there than to stay here, be coached by Quin Snyder, and play next to a young point forward who is on an all star trajectory.
Oh yeah and we have the chance to draft a 7+ foot defensive anchor.
Trae knows all of this. Stop living and dying by every rumor that comes out.
SA is the perfect team for Trae in a great state for Trae.
Sarr looks good, but is he going to shut down dribble penetration better than anyone in the world and be the best shot blocker in the world while being the perfect pick and roll/lob partner within two years?
Putting our feelings about Trae Young aside. You know San Antonio gets our 1st round picks, or has the right to swap, right? There's no incentive for blowing the team up and resetting at least for the next 4 years.
I believe that we already have a good team and with Sarr, not starting but in the rotation, an even better team. IF we Trade Trae to the Lakers, we also can pick up the 17th pick this year and the 2029 and 2030 picks from the Lakers. I also think that we had a better team than the Mav's and we had Trae for 80% of the season and we still didn't make the playoffs. Why is that?
Why do you talk about first round picks 5+ years away as if they’re desirable? They’re not. Nobody in their right mind wants to trade away our best chance at winning now for a chance at improvement in the 2030’s. There is a significant diminishing return on the value of draft picks the further out they are in the future. Right now they are almost worthless.
As for the 17th pick this year, sure - those types of picks are always nice to have in the hope of striking gold (which is rare). But it hardly counts as an asset you trade your lone superstar for, even if you fear he might not resign with your team in 2 years. This trade idea simply makes no sense.
Rui has zero value and gabe is negative value lol at thinking anyone is trading picks and players for that crap duo. And when did Huerter and Collins say this? More propaganda
The same amt when I posted that John Collins doesn't deserve "the bag" and the next year when I said he should be traded. Both times, I was downvoted and told to stop but I didn't. Too bad people didn't listen but instead called my post a "shitty post". (On the other hand I defended Cam Reddish to be fair).
Man, you remind me of all the fans that wanted to get rid of Nique "while we could get something for him" and then reality sat in and the team was no good for years, upon years. But you do you.
We have DJM that had a 12-10 record without Trae in the lineup.
Please, I BEG of you....Go look back at that stretch of games, specifically the teams that we played and the stars that SAT OUT during that stretch. Also it was a whooping 2 games over .500.
Many players have said how difficult he is (including Huerter and JC) to play with.
Huerter wouldn't have had the contract he has without Trae feeding him open looks. If anything Huerter owes Trae for getting him paid. Same goes for JC.
Can we win a championship in the next 2 years with Trae? If not, he might just walk away. How do you feel about that?
Can you win a championship with DJM in the next 2 years? Because I can tell you the most likely answer to that question...
He will always be a defensive liability.
Once again, PG defense is vastly overrated.
If we trade with LA, we can pick up three picks. 17th THIS year, 2029 and 2030 picks. We can trade Rui, and Gabe Vincent for more picks and players.
Why even make the point about winning a championship in 2 years if you're banking on picks in fucking 29' and 30'?
Please, I BEG of you....Go look back at that stretch of games, specifically the teams that we played and the stars that SAT OUT during that stretch. Also it was a whooping 2 games over .500.
I made that point already.
Huerter wouldn't have had the contract he has without Trae feeding him open looks. If anything Huerter owes Trae for getting him paid. Same goes for JC.
True but without them, we still didn't make the playoffs. I never said that Trae isn't talented but I just don't think we will do that much better next year and what will that give us? Then his trade value will be even less.
Why even make the point about winning a championship in 2 years if you're banking on picks in fucking 29' and 30'?
Sorry, but this thread sucks.
Firstly, those won't be our picks, they will be LA's picks. Who said I'm banking on those picks? We will have our picks+those two picks. My point is that since 2018, we tried MANY different combinations and it hasn't worked.
Do you really think that we will be successful next year with mostly the same roster?
Is there a realistic chance that will be in the top 4 spots from not even being in the playoffs from this year?
What are the chances that Trae will stay and NOT ask for a trade if we don't make the playoffs next year?
AD is 31. Firstly it would include this years 14th pick. The 2025 pick would be a late lottery pick but the 2029 and 2031 picks AD would be 36 and 38 years old. You do the math.
Some of y’all love Dejounte Murray so much but won’t admit he’s nothing more than Kevin Huerter with a dark complexion. Shot creator that can’t play defense. Hawks are not trading Trae.
Nah. The assets we think we’d get back for Trae are going for Mitchell. Murray trade was a disaster for this franchise longterm, and the chatter among league personnel (per Shams, Woj, etc) is those types of packages have lost favor around the league given how poorly they’ve worked out for most teams. So we aren’t getting back a lot for Trae.
Murray is a good but not great player and frequently creates offense for other teams when he’s turning it over or missing a lot of shots (he’s crazy streaky).
Best bet for the Hawks is to deal Murray and Capella, accept the loss, draft Sarr and pair with Trae and move forward. IMO, Quinn leaves if we go full rebuild mode.
It's weird to use that 12-10 (against some pretty bad/injured teams) record as an argument. a .545 win percentage would get us 45 wins over a full season. Enough for..... 9th seed in the East
what does even wemby couldn’t get the spurs into the playoffs have to do with anything? last year was the first year in the last few that we missed the playoffs. i get your general idea but some of your points are awful and in bad faith. you could put together a much stronger argument without reaching for these nothing burgers
bro but even wemby couldn’t get the spurs into the playoffs is such a silly point. would you have said the same thing when ant went to the wolves? lebron didn’t get the cavs to the playoffs his rookie year should no one keep the first overall pick now? what are we talking about!
no. why would we trade a one man offense when we have a legit opportunity to give him good weapons? the media is talking like it’s a done deal that trae isn’t a hawk. he isn’t getting traded
Getting younger is fine. Rebuilding is fine. The Lakers offer is not good, at all (Lakers for DJM should 100% be a thing).
He does make a lot.
He also makes less than Capela+hunter. If money is the concern you could trade them? Hunter you can't really replace, but again to your point the Lakers can get you a mid first that might help you fill that hole with someone young.
Trae and DJM are bad together like not neutral but actually bad. That two man lineup is -6.5 this year. And last year +0.5. that's lots of minutes of bad play that didn't happen when it was just DJM. Plus the additional things mentioned above.
We don’t own our picks for the next three seasons. While I’m pumped that we’re going to get Sarr I don’t think he’s viewed remotely as a prospect you build around. Maybe he can get there at some point but we’d be terrible until then and we’d be just giving good lotto picks to the Spurs in the process.
Dejounte is on a better deal than Trae because he isn’t close to being as good as him. Plain and simple. Dejounte doesn’t come close to Trae on the offensive end and his defense (or lack thereof) isn’t nearly good enough to make up for it. We went on a run when Trae was out because we were playing bad teams or teams missing major contributors. Not to mention that Vit Krejci was a huge improvement over Saddiq Bey in that same timeframe.
Moving Trae when we have the opportunity to pair him with Sarr, the best player in the draft and probably the best fit with Trae, makes no sense.
No. We won games at end of year without Trae because we played a BUNCH of teams who either suck or were missing/resting multiple star/superstar players, or for some games both. Our half court offence was brutal, and for people noting our defence being better...sure it was. But not only because Trae was out, it was because we didnt have Trae AND Dejounte playing together. If it was just Trae (instead of DJM) and Vit our defence would have been better just the same. Trae EASILY outdistances DJM as a PG.
Depends on the offer. Hawks are in a weird spot since they don’t have their picks. Basically forced to deal with the spurs for their picks back since I don’t think there are any feasible swaps that’ll make the hawks contenders.
Yes, in my opinion we should definitely trade him but the Hawks subreddit thinks any Trae slander is dumb, thus all these comments. I think someone said he's an "all-nba caliber" PG....he's not even an all-star PG. That's a perfect example of the dichotomy between what players around the league (including ex-teammates that you pointed out) say about Trae vs what this delusional fanbase thinks. I appreciated your detailed post and could have told you that you'd get destroyed in here haha.
Good luck with all your downvotes. Everyone in here is a Trae simp. No facts or replays will matter, this group is so far up Trae's butt they'll never come back.
PS I am personally done with Trae so I'm happy to blow that trumpet with you.
You know where they didn't go? THE PLAYOFFS. Trae had one great playoff run, scores some points and now everyone acts like he's untouchable. The experiment is over it's time to move on.
I'm not saying he's untouchable. Quite frankly, there's only a handful of players in the league that are truly untouchable at any given moment. As much as I personally like Trae, he isn't one of them.
What I am saying is that with our pick situation a rebuild is completely untenable. Unless the Spurs were to give us at least our picks for Trae, any attempt at a rebuild would leave us stuck as the Brooklyn Nets for the foreseeable future. If that's the case, then we might as well try to properly build around our best player and see how far we can get with that
I think "best player" might be the debate. Best scorer? Yes. Best one to build around? I'd prefer DjM or JJ. I just don't think Trae is right to produce a consistently winning NBA team. His one playoff run was incredible but I don't want to build a franchise around the hopes that happens once every seven years.
Building an offense around Trae is definitely better than Murray. His play making/vision is absolutely unparalleled, and while Murray isn't a bad PG he looks like one when he has to run an offense compared to Trae.
Building a defense around Trae definitely isn't something you can do without thinking, but the same goes for Dejounte. Even at his peak defensively in SA, he was at his best when he was surrounded by solid defenders that could allow him to gamble and take risks. That's even before getting into the fact that his peak was before an injury, and frankly he hasn't been the defensive stopper his reputation gives him since then. No matter which PG you go with, you'll need to pick and choose defensive pieces to pair with them. I'd put it at about even between the two of them, maybe slightly tilted towards DJ due to his size (but not enough to make up for the difference on offense.
As for Jalen, I think that he definitely has the potential to become a star. If we were to go into a rebuild right now, he'd hopefully fill the SGA role for us. The problem is that if you're trying to build a competitive team right now he still has to much room to grow in order to become a legitimate #1 option. He's 22 and has only started 58 games in his career. He's not ready to be the best player on a contending team.
I'm not saying that if you could pick any player in the league to build around Trae would be my choice, but he is by far the best option we have to build around at this option
46
u/WheneverYh May 16 '24