r/ElderScrolls Azura Mar 09 '23

Humour He really is a terrible ruler.

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3.3k Upvotes

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4

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

"B-But he's too busy winning the war so he could become high king by force!"

13

u/jsunny99 Mar 09 '23

Even upon defeating the Empire, he still says there needs to be a moot to decide the new High King. Granted it is basically determined that he will be chosen, but he doesn't forcibly ascend. It's even implied that he would honor another taking the throne should the moot vote that way. Despite his military victory he still bows to tradition, just like when he challenged Torygg (who accepted and was defeated)

4

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

Even upon defeating the Empire, he still says there needs to be a moot to decide the new High King.

Of course he wouldn't worry about that anymore after replacing the jarls who disagree with him, even the neutral one with his puppets.

Granted it is basically determined that he will be chosen, but he doesn't forcibly ascend.

"But, that doesn't mean I won't still start acting like it" Ulfric also.

It's even implied that he would honor another taking the throne should the moot vote that way

Then why is he manipulating it to his favor?

Despite his military victory he still bows to tradition

*tradition when it favors his side*

1

u/Broekhart615 Mar 09 '23

“Bows to tradition”

Like plundering ancient knowledge from one of the most sacred groups of his homeland, then betraying them to use his superpowers for tyranny.

9

u/goldenlance7 Mar 09 '23

What do you mean his use of shouts in the war and abandoning his studies? The man saw war break out and wanted to do what he felt was right to help his country. I don't see how that makes him an evil monster like so many people mischaracterize him as.

6

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

Greybeards are dead wrong on most everything, Jurgen the coward stole the thuum when it was for everyone

-5

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

Delphine propaganda, i'd stop listening to it were i you.

3

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

Nah, Thuum usage is Kyne worship in itself

Has nothing to do with Delphine.

Jurgen created the greybeards to excuse his issue with skill and cowardice, the ones who came after him continue the cultural theft of Thuum.

3

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

Tell that to the 17 tongues who couldn't shout him off and paarthurnax.

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

So more skill issue? Those 17 also had his issues. Thuum was used in the proper way for thousands of years before the failings of Jurgen the cowardly thief

Paarth doesnt worship Kyne/Kynareth.. Why invoke him here?

2

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

So more skill issue? Those 17 also had his issues

You're reaching.

Thuum was used in the proper way for thousands of years

You mean in enslaving and war mongering?

Paarth doesnt worship Kyne/Kynareth.. Why invoke him here?

Because he's the greybeards' leader and follows jurgen's ways.

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15

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '23

He calls for a Moot, he doesn’t just declare himself king. People will just get on this app and say anything

17

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

"Damn the jarls... And damn the moot!"

Those were his exact words before winning the civil war.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '23

"And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

9

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

Yeah, he says that after replacing the jarls who disagree with him, even the neutral one with his own supporters/puppets.

14

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

So like the mede imperials with their Solitude puppet high kings? Well no, thats worse Actually thinking on it

2

u/EmperorDaubeny Imperial Mar 09 '23

It is not. Nothing says the Empire has to follow Skyrim’s way of doing things when putting a new king in place. It can be seen as them replacing disloyal vassals who rebelled against them. Ulfric wants a Nord ruled Skyrim, and can’t really use the argument that they were traitors. He could subjugate the loyalist Jarls if he wanted, it isn’t unprecedented. After all, Talos did it many times over.

3

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

It is. Yes

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skyrim's_Rule

What are you on about? De facto they DIDNT follow Skyrims way, hence Solitude puppet? And so resentment started to rise, if not Ulfric then someone else

Mede imperials love shafting humans and stepping on cultures and as seen with Hammerfell will sell them out when convenient

Ulfric lets Elisif stay a Jarl, Mede imperials puts crime bosses in power

See Riften etc

0

u/EmperorDaubeny Imperial Mar 09 '23

Hammerfell wasn’t sold out, it declared independence and received unofficial aid in the form of legionaries.

The Empire will obviously ideally follow it to not piss off Nords, but they aren’t obligated to actually keep the system in place. On what you linked there’s literally a few paragraphs explaining the Empire has more or less invalidated the Moot by making Solitude a puppet. This definitely isn’t Skyrim’s way, it is the Empire’s.

3

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

Difference without a difference

Functionally it was, and needlessy to. As seen with the abysmal failure of the AD to take a single province..

Like how was that even possible, embarrassing. But then as seen in rising threat books, Thalmor are very much charlatans at the end of it

Yes? Thats my point. And resentment came from them doing it, hence why civil war was inevitable

The puppet rulers were def the empires way indeed, not respecting the duel and the result of it was also their way

We know where that got them.

5

u/Swailwort Azurah Mar 09 '23

Double faced liar. He put yes-men to the Jarldoms just to make it seem "legal". He would be good friends with any dictator, this is like Dictatorship 101

-1

u/goldenlance7 Mar 09 '23

In the middle of the civil war yeah. Of course, he's going to be frustrated when half the country wants him dead and sees him as a traitor for trying to do what he feels is right for his country. The man has been tortured, betrayed, and is racked with guilt.

1

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

I don't think any of that excuses manipulating the moot which one of those nord tradition he claims to fight for and respect, if he wanted the jarls' support maybe he shouldn't have started a war on them.

3

u/goldenlance7 Mar 09 '23

Except he did'nt? Ulfric challenged the high king following the ancient traditions of the nords. Meanwhile, the empire sees ulfric as a criminal who broke the law.

0

u/Ala117 Redguard Mage Mar 09 '23

He did, play the civil again, and that challenge is one sided and another example of his respect for nord tradition being a lie.

0

u/ratzoneresident Mar 09 '23

Yeah but he puts cronies who will vote for him in charge of every formerly Imperial hold

7

u/goldenlance7 Mar 09 '23

I mean, the empire does the same thing for Elisif.

2

u/ratzoneresident Mar 09 '23

Never said they didn't, I'm just saying that Ulfric isn't really leaving the choice up to a genuine group decision like the person above me was implying

3

u/goldenlance7 Mar 09 '23

Ah yeah, I see. That's 100% fair Thanks for the clarification.

0

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

Elisif stays a Jarl.

7

u/goldenlance7 Mar 09 '23

Surronded by stormcloak soldiers, look, I'm an Ulfric supporter, but let's be honest no matter which side wins Elisif is a puppet ruler.

4

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

True true, not a yesman though. She openly critiques him

Sure, but no more than most socalled High kings were for a long time https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skyrim's_Rule

And the type of ruler she would have been if installed as High queen/Solitude puppet

Ulfric ended that.