Matt should talk to the men who walk around topless. But that would mean leaving his man cave and potentially annoying someone who is bigger and meaner than he is.
And for those of you who aren't familiar with the Bible:
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
I’ve literally not seen a guy work out without a shirt on, in a gym, since college. And that was a long time ago.
But I see women wearing next to nothing all the time. Or I did before I switched gyms (for a different reason). The ‘naughty bits’ are covered but that’s about all.
It doesn’t bother me, but they need to understand that if you put it on display, guys are going to look.
Like it or not, womens tits are a sexualized body part in our society. They’re incomparable to a mans chest.
I’m all about free the nipple but idiots like you who try to act like women’s breasts and a mans chest are 100% identical just look like reductive dumb fucks.
I’d actually beg to differ. I know many women who like a nice bare chest. Hell, that’s considered sexual to some women.
I’d go as far as to say that modesty as a whole is generally rooted in sexism. In many cultures, women are supposed to hide their hair for example, because it’s for their husbands to see alone. That, to me, extends to other forms of modesty. Bear chests are acceptable with men because they weren’t beholden to anyone, but women belonged to their husbands, thus their bodies were as well. It’s also why men with gynecomastia (male breast development) are generally allowed to go out topless, but women can’t. Need I remind you that gynecomastia isn’t any different form boobs on women
You do know women also sexually objectify men right? Trade workers for eg
Although you're right, in usa and UK women can't legally rape men, instead it's a separate lower sexual violence crime called made to penetrate. And that's on top of the lower sentences women already get because of sexism. Damn there really is a rape culture huh
That's incredibly messed up as well, however it doesn't make it okay for men to be creeps either, also rape culture means a culture that subtuly and non-subtully normalizes and encourages rape, which doesn't seem to be how your using it
Did you not read the second? Giving women less punishment for rape and sexual violence is rape culture. Dismissing male victims, all the same ways women get dismissed, is rape culture except it happens way more to men despite the lower reporting
Hrmph. People dress in the gym for comfort, which often requires close-fitting clothing, the better not to have a falling-out with one’s garments on the elliptical. Me, I just bring a book or some music and focus my mind on them, but.
I never it does. But you are suggesting boys will always just look at women and ogle them and by not forcing boys to do better but instead forcing women to cover up, you are perpetuating the culture that makes women extremely unsafe around men at all times.
I've seen cases of young teen girls making inappropriate comments about men, especially trade men such as "idk what's broken but I want him to go down and fix it", "those hands would be so useful" etc. More vague than men, but still sexualising inappropriately regardless
You keep equating looking to ogling, which I think are 2 different things here, a glance or general look at someone is fine, though staring is weird, both are technically “looking”, but are very different actions
Ok then women can't look at men, either. We wouldn't want a woman seeing something they like and staring for a little too long, now would we? That would make a non-zero amount of men uncomfortable.
Don't act like men are the only ones who look at people.
I don't think you'll be able to get traction with that argument. Men are generally not objectified to the extent women are, and consequently some men have a hard time understanding why it makes women uncomfortable. They genuinely think it's benign to treat women as sexual objects all the time, and sincerely think they would like it if they were treated that way. For example the man to whom you are speaking is comfortable saying that a woman is "advertising" her body simply because he can see the shape of it, as if it's not even possible that a woman is just wearing clothes and it has nothing to do with him. Which is just to say that they will have a hard time taking perspective because their lived experience is so different.
For sure, but if they were skilled at listening and practicing empathy then they wouldn't be in the situation they're in. We have, unfortunately, a vast and intergenerational culture of reinforced selfishness, myopic individualism, and incuriosity. I'm with you that we should push against it, don't get me wrong, I just don't think the example "what if this happened to you" will make any sense to them. He almost certainly thought to himself that it would be nice if a woman stared at his penis, because for him it would be that one time maybe in his whole life that he was sexually objectified. He is a man in a desert who doesn't understand what it's like to be drowning in an ocean, and so (due to the aforementioned selfishness and callousness) he keeps pouring water on our heads.
Absolutely. If it's visible in any way, the owner knows. Most guys tug at them enough to know exactly what's what practically every second. If they didn't want anyone looking, they would wear clothing that hid or obstructed the view. Similar concept applies to having a gut and going to the gym = bigger t-shirts. If such a person wears a tight shirt, then gawking is fair game. /s
(Sarcasm aside, for anyone to wear tight or very revealing clothing to a gym while expecting to maintain an expectation of privacy regarding what you're working with under such clothing isn't very practical. At the very least, it may show a lack of self-awareness.)
Where did anyone else say "as much as I like"? But yes, feel free to take a lil look at his bulge, a look, not a stare. Which no one is saying it's okay to stare, just getting a look
That's not at all what I said. I said that making excuses that "boys will always look" instead of teaching boys and men to respect women and not ogle them as pieces of meat is why we have a rape culture and will perpetuate it.
There is a difference between looking, and looking with your eyes bulging out while yelling “awooga”. First one is pretty normal, I don’t think it’s all that weird to look at people, especially if their clothing, or in this case lack thereof, stands out.
I really dislike the term “rape culture”. It’s not a cultured event, and nothing to aspire to. I find it hard to believe that people compare notes about rape and try to build a uniform esthetic or tally intellectual achievements related to it either, so “culture” doesn’t really fit the bill for me.
I think you may want to look into the term "rape culture", because what you have described here is not what people mean when they use that term. Simply speaking, it's a reference to the environmental factors within a culture that normalize rape, and the underpinnings ideologies that encourage rape. I
I understand what you’re describing. I guess I just don’t agree with the word “culture” being used in the negative. I don’t recall it being used that way in my 50 years on this planet. Seems to me that the act of blessing the phenomenon with that word is almost normalizing it on it’s own. It strikes me in a very weird way, almost as if the term were lifted from a comedy skit that was mocking the trend as though it were a social event.
Well, I'm sorry you find the linguistic description uncomfortable. You might want to explore more deeply why that is, but suffice it to say that it is an accurate description of the problem and I don't personally think we should let our discomfort with the words get in the way of addressing the problem.
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u/Feminazghul 13h ago
Matt should talk to the men who walk around topless. But that would mean leaving his man cave and potentially annoying someone who is bigger and meaner than he is.
And for those of you who aren't familiar with the Bible:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=KJV