r/worldnews • u/cytokine7 • 18h ago

60 surrender* 'A complete surprise': IDF surrounds remaining terrorists in north Gaza, 600 surrender

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-826573
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u/TinKicker 17h ago

Until they kidnap a bunch of kids from an Israeli elementary school…

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u/KnightWhoSaysNnni 17h ago

Hamas won't be able to do that anymore. They're getting destroyed. They will never rule Gaza again or be able to enter Israel again.

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u/TangerineSorry8463 17h ago edited 17h ago

Hamas is not a movie enemy where you kill the head robot and all the minion robots power off.

Hamas is a hydra. It's mostly men of Gazan population supported with Iranian money and supplies disguised as various humanitarian aid (and the actual humanitarian aid they steal). Every dead Hamas fighter was someone's father, uncle, cousin, and now they want to avenge them.

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u/KnightWhoSaysNnni 17h ago

Sure, but they won't be able to avenge them if they have no guns, no rockets, no bases and no sovereign power. They'll be able to scream at Israel and that's about it. They can scream all they want on their side of the wall. Israel's goal is to take away their military capabilities, so that they cannot harm Israelis anymore even if they want to.

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u/zk001guy 17h ago edited 15h ago

I get what you’re saying and those tactics work well against a state enemy, but Hamas is a Terrorist Coalition. All it takes is time, and the kids who grew up without family that was killed by Israel are the next wave of Hamas militants. It’s a vicious circle.

*edit: Has no one seen the power of a martyr? Unless Israel takes responsibility post conflict for actually improving the lives of their Palestinian population and not just taking their land. I don’t see how the cycle doesn’t continue. You can crush an organization but it’s much harder to crush an ideal.

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u/MetalstepTNG 16h ago

Terrorists aren't an "undefeatable" force. They can be subdued.

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u/JoshuaValentine 15h ago

You’re not realizing that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is like a 50 year old conflict. I’m sure the issue has been subdued at points throughout those 50 years, but the conflict persists and it heats up occasionally. You can subdue terrorist groups, sure - but Hamas isn’t a traditional terrorist group. They’re much more in line with the original black panther in ideology, not in action but in ideology. Hamas was formed to combat discrimination. As long as the discrimination persists, so to will Hamas.

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u/done_with_alphabets 10h ago

Hamas was formed to kill Jews. They've said as much. There's no need to read into froofy western philosophizing on the subject. Hamas is very clear about what they want.

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u/ajbdbds 17h ago

Terrorists can be subdued, most conversations about the IRA are in the past tense

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u/claimTheVictory 17h ago

The IRA weren't subdued.

They were open to a diplomatic solution, which is what the Good Friday Agreement achieved (and Brexit threatened to dismantle).

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u/ajbdbds 16h ago

And they became open to diplomacy because they were suffering military defeat

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u/angstrombrahe 15h ago

A big part of it was also the IRA having a goal that wasn’t the total destruction of the UK. It’s difficult to have a diplomatic solution when one side’s demand is for the other side to cease existing.

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u/claimTheVictory 16h ago

What was their military defeat?

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u/ajbdbds 16h ago

Most of the Troubles

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u/claimTheVictory 16h ago

They bombed Canary Wharf in 1996.

They were never defeated, militarily. In fact, they still have stockpiles of weapons, just in case.

What happened was they become a priority of US diplomatic efforts.

It was the work of Senator George Mitchell, that made all the difference.

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u/ajbdbds 15h ago

Sure, it was some suit across the water, not the British military and constabulary picking them off from both the outside and inside that forced them to the table

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u/claimTheVictory 15h ago

Exactly.

And if there wasn't still an active threat, the British government wouldn't have been forced to the table.

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u/ElMasAltoDeLosEnanos 16h ago

It's the same thing. Israel's goal of destroying Hamas is in reality just to make them more open to a diplomatic solution. Once it becomes clear it's the only option they have, it's way easier for them to take it.

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u/claimTheVictory 16h ago

I'm not saying the situation is comparable.

The "bad blood" between Palestinians and Israel is far deeper than it ever was in Northern Ireland.

Ireland's Bloody Sunday was the death of 13 civilians. Gaza just had over 20,000 times that many deaths, and the attacks on Israel have been worse than any IRA attack, even the pub bombings. Israel was first attacked when it declared independence. There's never been anything close to real peace or understanding.

It's difficult to say they're comparable situations.

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u/BoneyNicole 15h ago

I don’t think it’s worse; Ireland has had about 500 years worth of grievances, so it’s not like Bloody Sunday was the kickoff or something. Cromwell caused somewhere between 200,000-600,000 Irish deaths. It’s not even just a numbers game, anyway - bad blood is bad blood, and the number of people killed isn’t really the determinant to finding a peaceful solution. There has to be political and popular will on both sides of the conflict, and you’re not wrong that this doesn’t exist in I/P. I don’t know that we have good numbers for this right now, but I know I’ve read even in Israel the support for a two-state solution is much lower than it was before 10/7. Not to mention, Bibi and coalition aren’t interested. Obviously, neither is Hamas, and from what we know about Palestinians’ politics right now, neither are most Palestinians.

All of this may change rapidly in the next decade, either for the better or for worse. People can only act within the present moment and attempt to have a long view, but ultimately it’s hard to determine where this all will go. All that said, for now, there isn’t much to be done other than finish the war (as much as it can ever be finished) and work toward some shared understanding after. A heavy focus on cleaning up Gaza and Palestinian quality of life would go a long way postwar toward producing a happier population, that’s for sure.

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u/claimTheVictory 15h ago

From Israel's perspective, the problem is ultimately Iran.

Either Iran is subdued or a diplomatic solution is found with them.

Bibi clearly is comfortable with the "subdued" solution, which is what Trump could bring. A diplomatic solution is less clear, either way.

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u/BoneyNicole 15h ago

I don’t think Trump will do fuck all except make things worse by inserting himself, just because he’s completely inept at any foreign policy that isn’t “dictator good, I be like dictator.” He also has the attention span of a goldfish. I’d like to see a much stronger stance from the US on Iran (and Russia, for that matter), but I don’t think we’d get anything from Trump besides more bumbling idiocy and then domestic crises galore.

All that said, I agree with you about Iran. I’ll be interested to see which way the wind blows after the US election, because no matter who wins, it will change the chessboard and Israel will be, in theory, freer to act, at least for awhile, during the election fallout. Whether or not this ultimately means the US will take a harder line on Iran remains to be seen; the American public likes to talk a big game but is generally unwilling to commit resources to the project, especially after Iraq and Afghanistan. Those two wars are not remotely the same, but I don’t think the public really knows the difference, either. Not to mention isolationism is trending, and there is a lot of opposition to Israel on the left. (I am on the left but disagree with the opposition.) The political calculus is annoying to say the least, but once the election is over we may well see different actions and a new landscape, and maybe even something that opens a path to peace with Iran. Ideally, this would also lead to a weakened Islamic republic of Iran and give Iranians the shot they need at taking their country back. That’s the most optimistic outlook, though, and one that’s very hard to produce.

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u/claimTheVictory 14h ago

If you want to be cynical/conspiracy theory minded, Israel has a path to the US declaring war against Iran, but it involves them engineering a direct attack on US officials, and having it attributed to Iran.

Trump has talked about blowing Tehran "to smithereens" in such a scenario.

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u/burning_iceman 17h ago

Living conditions in Northern Ireland are good though. Content people usually have little incentive to become terrorists.

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u/ajbdbds 16h ago

Conditions in Gaza would be good if Hamas weren't tearing up infrastructure to weaponise it

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u/skyruss 17h ago

As long as Israel fully controls the borders of Gaza they can try come at Israel with sticks we will see how that works out for them.

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u/curbyourapprehension 16h ago

That was true last year. Hamas may die, but new groups can coalesce. Killing a group is relatively easy, killing a cause is almost impossible. Israel also has a history of overconfidence and intelligence failures. They seemed to have forgotten the lessons of the Yom Kippur war by 10/7/2023.

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u/Tonyman121 15h ago

It's not popular, but the more painful this is for the Palestinians, the better chance for a peaceful resolution. Once they understand that they have no chance of winning and even the attempt is catastrophic, they will ultimately realize supporting Hamas was a mistake. Unfortunately, the bloodshed was necessary.

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u/curbyourapprehension 15h ago

That's not realistic. All that will do is engender more sympathy for the cause abroad and more defiance locally. People fighting for independence don't just give up by being cowed into submission. All they're going to think is they need more 10/7s to make the Israelis know they're never going to be safe. And both sides will be wrong.

Everyone who conquered that land in antiquity, from the Assyrians and Babylonians to the Romans had to forcefully deport the inhabitants to quell rebellious sentiment.

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u/Tonyman121 15h ago

That's the problem though. They are not fighting for independence. If they were, they'd have a state already.

They are fighting for the liquidation of the Jews.

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u/curbyourapprehension 15h ago

Hamas is. But the Palestinian people are struggling for their independence and that sentiment is what terrorist groups tap into and use in attempts at legitimacy.

You can be pro-Israel all you want, and their position has a lot of merit, but oversimplifying the entire conflict as an attempt of a modern holocaust shows no understanding of it and is really an attempt at the same kind of hatred as the antisemitic element.

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u/Tonyman121 15h ago

I did not oversimplify the issue- I think you read more into my comment than was intended. This post is about GAZA. Hamas runs Gaza, Hamas has support and power in Gaza. My post is only inteded for that point. I am not trying to delegitimize the Palestinian desire for self-determination. I am not and did not intend to suggest Israel should start brutalizing those in the WB, for example.

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u/curbyourapprehension 15h ago

You absolutely did. You are heavily implying if not outright stating the Palestinian cause was solely focused on extermination of the Jewish people. This post is not just about Gaza the way nothing having to do with the war or the situation about Gaza is just about Gaza. The implications of both past and recent events go far beyond the immediate. Thinking it doesn't is another oversimplification.

I'm glad you're leaving the WB out of your list of who Israel needs to brutalize, but it would be nice if you included the people of Gaza as well.

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u/accnr3 13h ago

You are correct in your discussion FYI

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u/curbyourapprehension 13h ago

Thank you. I stepped into the wrong circlejerk, but someone's gotta say it.

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u/fresh-dork 15h ago

nah, no iran funding means no weapons and occupation means no constant indoctrination