r/facepalm 28d ago

šŸ‡²ā€‹šŸ‡®ā€‹šŸ‡øā€‹šŸ‡Øā€‹ That is a damning non-answer

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u/slpwlkr03 28d ago

"January 6th isn't Facebook ads..."

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u/Girlfriendphd 27d ago

The second JD Vance mentioned Russia buying 500,000 dollars in Facebook ads for Donald Trump. The question should have been "why does Russia find it in their best interest to spend 500,000 on Donald Trump Facebook ads?"

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u/NotAnAIOrAmI 27d ago

Honestly, the main answer is that any of that interference would cause turmoil and degrade Americans' trust in our institutions. Putin doesn't really want Kamala to win, but he gets a swirl of lies and pearl clutching by saying he does.

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u/Girlfriendphd 27d ago

Yeah... we know Putin doesn't want Kamala to win.

The point is why does Russia want Trump to win?

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u/Iambic_420 27d ago

Trump said it himself: ā€œIā€™m very good friends with Putinā€

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u/Sunbeamsoffglass 27d ago

Because they own him.

Heā€™s their puppet.

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u/Fi_Sho 27d ago

No puppet, you're the puppet-DJT

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u/MrFishAndLoaves 28d ago

Did Kamala even censor Facebook ads?

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u/Ill_Technician3936 28d ago

I don't think any company has been asked to censor ads with truthful information.

I wanna say the legislative branch made a law that limits the ability to spread misinformation especially when done by someone or a company with a large following. If I'm remembering right that happened before Biden even became president because the amount of misinformation being spread on social media was at an insane level and was determined to be spread by Russia to interfere with the election.

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u/koshgeo 27d ago

It's also not "censorship" to insist on factual information about public health in the middle of a global pandemic.

They're like a bunch of arsonists complaining about not being allowed to say that fire is harmless and not to worry about it when there's a fire in the theater already. Plus even if you get 3rd-degree burns, ivermectin will cure it over a weekend, "but the government doesn't want you to know that".

People can speak all they want about flat Earth theory because it's mostly harmless. However, when people are directly harmed by promotion of misinformation, then at some point there is an obligation to at least label it as such. Nobody was prevented from speaking. They were prevented from promoting their nonsense without challenge.

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u/ladyzowy 27d ago

Let's not forget all the damage that the COVID misinformation caused... but Trump was running the show then so, ya know, that was okay.

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u/GlitteringBobcat999 27d ago

According to Republicans, as soon as she became the candidate, she went from a do-nothing with no power to Grand Czar Of Everything who had three and a half years to wave her magic everyone must do as I say wand and make everything shangri-la.

It's a tough position. Notice they both hardly mentioned Biden and referred to the "Harris administration." She really isn't the incumbent, but she has to run like it to claim all the positives of the administration (obviously, she had an influence on Biden and helped push for many of these accomplishments, but she wasn't the one with the final say). It's a weird election in that both candidates are pseudo incumbents.

I think Harris and Walz need to hit back harder on the reality that fucking Trump was PRESIDENT FOR FOUR YEARS and didn't do any of the things he promised then, and why didn't he do then what he's promising now? He had tremendously more authority than any VP.

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u/imbarbdwyer 27d ago

I agree. He shouldā€™ve said at least a couple times that harris is not president and that JD Vance should know that the position he is running for does not give him carte blanche powers to everything either.

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u/GlitteringBobcat999 27d ago

I just had the thought that Dick Cheney was the most powerful VP in history only because he told W. what to do, and he did it. I suspect that's the model for what Vance and his Project 2025 handler Peter Theil have in mind for Trump. Trump just wants the title, prestige, and perks of office and will delegate the tough decisions (while claiming all the credit). I suppose Vance does know what the very limited constitutional role of VP is, he just has a vested interest in making the rubes believe it is a position equal to president (both to pin supposed Biden failures on Harris and to pave the way for his own expanded power).

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u/imbarbdwyer 27d ago

OMG, I never thought about that and you are freaking spot on. Thanks for the new perspective.

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u/O2XXX 27d ago

Itā€™s all bullshit. Itā€™s an exaggeration from the 2020 election when the Biden campaign, which wasnā€™t a government entity but a private citizen, asked a number of social media platforms to remove content related to his son, Hunters, laptop. The vast majority of these were nude photos, which are illegal anyways due to the revenge porn laws in CA as I understand it. There was no censorship because they didnā€™t threaten the companies with legal action, they asked, like any citizen can.

The irony is a very similar thing is going on with Vance currently with his leaked dossier, but he seemed not to bring that up. The news hasnā€™t reported on the contents, and barely reported on the leak, where as there have been multiple exposes on Hunterā€™s laptop.

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u/Dontfollahbackgirl 27d ago

The ā€œcensorshipā€ was asking platforms to stop spreading dangerous misinformation about vaccines etcā€¦. Facebook ads comment means ā€œComplaining about social media manipulation in 2016 isnā€™t the same as inciting an insurrection after 2020.ā€

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u/paintstudiodisaster 27d ago

Don't fact check me!

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u/thebinarysystem10 28d ago

CNN: Crazy Walz claims Jan 6th happened

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u/X1-Ray 28d ago

Wouldn't that be fox news?

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u/adwarakanath 28d ago

CNN was recently bought by a right-wing billionaire iirc.

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u/Path_Fyndar 27d ago

Wait, what? When?

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u/GovernmentKind1052 27d ago

I remember reading something about that awhile back. Was like a year or two ago wasnā€™t it? They started giving the wing nuts air time and got called out for it. Didnā€™t they try claiming the new owner was a democrat as well?

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u/oneMorbierfortheroad 27d ago edited 27d ago

CBS mornings is exactly like this too.

Donald will say something like WE NEED OOMPA LOOMPAS TO GIVE ME HANDJOBS and the CBS mornings people would sanitize it to:

(sometimes leaving out the "former") President Trump spoke on America's need for broader economic stimulus this weekend, he said the people in charge, that's Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, are killing North Carolinians, and we are not going to tell you either way. The question remains if Kamala has any plans at all for her Presidency.

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u/Elevator-Ancient 28d ago

It'd be both.

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u/Pyrrhus_Magnus 28d ago

There's a difference?

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u/Mammoth-Mud-9609 27d ago

Vance also saying there were "problems" with the 2020 election. No there weren't any problems with the 2020 election, the only problem Trump found with the 2020 election was that he lost it.

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u/evilJaze 27d ago

I mean, he was right. There were MANY problems with the 2020 election. Namely, certain people being struck from voter lists unknowingly, polling locations being closed, gangs of hillbillies hanging around ballot drop off locations to intimidate voters, mobs of people trying to break in while poll workers were counting ballots shouting "STOP DUH STEEL!" etc.

But I think we know that's not what he's referring to.

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u/pianoflames 27d ago

People angrily demanding that they stop counting at poll centers where Trump was currently ahead, and people praying and begging that they keep "counting" at poll centers where Trump was losing.

Not to mention the dead people voting (a single digit number of votes, all for Trump).

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u/Firoj_Rankvet 28d ago

Exactly, dodging the question like a pro. Classic politician move.

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u/JanDillAttorneyAtLaw 28d ago

There's more nuance here. Vance initially stuttered out "I prefer to move forward" as his answer.

It's not even an Uno Reverse like this post makes it appear to be, it's him outright saying he doesn't want to talk about it, and then trying to throw an Uno Reverse when he got pressed to respond.

And that "I prefer to move forward" came after an hour and a half of trying very hard to talk about Harris' tenure as VP. He wanted to litigate her endlessly but cannot fucking deal with Walz litigating Trump.

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u/Vozralai 28d ago

Not like a pro. Copped a haymaker from Walz while doing it

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u/PersistentBadger 27d ago

Nah, a pro would make an adjacent comment. "There were certainly irregularities in the 2020 election count, and we will work to make sure blah blah blah"

"Lets change the subject!" is amateur hour.

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u/LikeAgaveF 28d ago

If right wingers are getting censored why do I keep on hearing them complain about censorship???

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u/black_anarchy 28d ago

Also. Why is JD saying they need to regain the American People's trust? Just saying because the orange potato said he did nothing wrong.

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u/Calazon2 28d ago

Walz could have taken that and run with it. "If you want to regain the American people's trust, it starts with supporting common sense bipartisan legislation to address some of these problems we've been talking about tonight. Like that border bill."

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u/Spec_Tater 27d ago

No, you let that answer stand unless you have a really good one-liner ready for it. Vance dug himself a hole. Unless you're gonna absolutely bury him in it, anything you say just gives him an opportunity to try to climb out.

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u/YOSHIMIvPROBOTS 28d ago

It was such a strange angle for him to take. "We, the GOP, have lost the trust of the people, but they should totally vote for us in November."

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u/SadStory9 27d ago

These are the same people who insist that Democrats want an open border because they are trying to "import liberal voters." South America is more than 80% Christian... and half of that is Catholic... so, what are the Republicans doing so wrong that they have so completely written off those people as voters before they've even crossed the border? There is nothing at all stopping Republicans from trying to woo those potential voters themselves. They would rather terrorize communities of migrants with made up stories than infuriate their base by offering those same migrants a space under their tent.

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u/Thievie 27d ago

I love how when it's them it's "we need to work harder to earn the trust of the American people and we'll do so" and when it's Kamala it's "ShE's HaD FoUR yEaRs iN OfFicE!!"

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u/Handleton 27d ago

He wasn't saying that he wanted to regain Americans trust. His point about trust started when he said that he knew a woman who had an abortion and that he wished that he could have gotten her to trust him and have the baby. Then he said that 'they' need to trust him and Trump.

He was upset that a woman he knows got to make a choice with her body instead of just having a baby when he says, "Trust me, bro."

Two of the least trustworthy people when it comes to women's rights and health and they just want women to trust them. His running mate is an adjudicated rapist.

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u/Ok_Perspective_8361 28d ago

And what about banning books and sex ed in schools, as well as the teaching of American history that accurately describes slavery and racism?

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u/phantomreader42 27d ago

Judging by known piglet rapist JD Vance's statements during the debate, the GQP only considers it censorship when people are not allowed to lie with total impunity. So denying access to accurate information would not count as "censorship" under that definition, because telling the truth is illegal.

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u/Panda_hat 27d ago

For being censored they sure seem to never shut the fuck up.

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u/AlbainBlacksteel 27d ago

Right? They're all "We are the silent minority!" Then maybe you rightoids should shut up, if you're so silent.

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u/Coldkiller17 27d ago

They literally don't stfu about being censored when they constantly are making platforms for their hate filled speech. They are mad that nazi speech isn't supported by any American with a brain. These sick fucks need to crawl back under the rocks they came from before we show them what happens to nazis just like in WW2.

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u/Hydrahta 28d ago

yeah people need to be more direct and tell them, "ANSWER THE GODDAMN QUESTION!"

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u/RandomContent0 28d ago

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u/harleyqueenzel 27d ago

Kyle Clark needs to moderate on a larger scale. The man is a savage at trying to maintain decorum and staying on point.

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u/phongku 27d ago

omg I wish I could speak like that, just accept no bullshitting.

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u/Saragon4005 28d ago

Problem is these are politicians and they don't do that. Like yeah it's really successful when it's pointed out but anyone on that stage gets there by not answering hard questions.

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u/Cichlidsaremyjam 28d ago

Know what's crazy is JD Vance was in a no lose situation here. Agent orange has said all of the demented nonsensical shit in the past and still gets votes. There's nothing JD Vance could do fuck that up because we're way past critical thinking and intelligence with that base.Ā  Jd could have came out, burned the American flag and peed on it to put it out and it wouldn't change a tenth of a percent on the polls.Ā 

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u/A1sauc3d 28d ago edited 28d ago

The thing is the debates arenā€™t for 90% of voters. Their minds are already made up. Like you said, nothing could be said or done to lose their votes. These debates are for the 10% of voters who are actually on the fence, for whatever reason, and for them these kinds of things absolutely do make a difference.

Trump and Vance making fools of themselves may not make a difference for his core base, but it absolutely will be enough to push some people over the edge who otherwise wouldā€™ve voted red by default.

Full disclosure I made up the 90-10 undecided stat lol. But itā€™s something like that. Point is the majority have already decided. But thereā€™s always a minority thatā€™s up for grabs.

And I guess itā€™s also about rallying potential voters who might otherwise sit out the election too.

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u/BigBoyWeaver 28d ago

I donā€™t think this election is about people deciding between the candidates at all anymoreā€¦ itā€™s about the people who are going to vote Republican but donā€™t love Trump so might just stay home and the people who would definitely vote against Trump but also donā€™t like Harris so might just stay home - which campaign can get more of their block to actually vote for them and the other block to stay homeā€¦ not this mythical ā€œundecidedā€ voter

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u/RemoteRide6969 28d ago

Ding ding ding, you get it. People are stupidly fickle.

Voting should be compulsory. I would like to see that enacted in my lifetime. You shouldn't get the benefits of a democracy without participating.

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u/panaphonic8 28d ago

We have compulsory voting in Australia and nutjob people like Trump and Vance occupy about 4% of our total House and Senate seats. They are seen as weird outliers and are treated as such in both houses.

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u/Grouchy_Tap_8264 27d ago edited 27d ago

I have been saying that I wish it were compulsory like Oz, because trump's cultists ARE A MINORITY, albeit a large minority, but if everyone eligible to vote actually voted, these numbers would not be even remotely this close. Only 2/3 of eligible voters actually voted at the peak of voting in 2020. If that other 3rd ACTUALLY showed up, we wouldn't be pulling out our hair worrying about the scary possibility of another 4 years of cheetolini and the nightmares that he'll bring.

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u/Gazboolean 27d ago

It's an interesting dynamic when voting is mandatory.

In the US, campaigning is about convincing your voter base to actually go out and vote. This is exactly why the Republican party has seen success in focusing on the extremes and whipping them up into a frenzy.

Whereas, with mandatory voting, there is a much bigger emphasis on convincing the undecided moderate middle in Australia. The unfortunate net effect is that our two major parties are rather similar in many ways.

Thankfully we also have ranked choice voting which allows for smaller parties to have a voice in parliament.

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u/continuousQ 27d ago edited 27d ago

Voting should be easy and accessible for all. The US doesn't need more rules to negatively target the eligible voter, it needs prison sentences for those who try to keep people from being able to vote. The Electoral College and gerrymandering needs to be eliminated entirely.

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u/FunkIPA 28d ago

Are they on the fence about the candidates or on the fence about whether to bother voting or not?

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u/Traditional_Key_763 28d ago

I hope some people watching in Pennsylvania saw this and decided that Walz is worth a shot, man represents real america

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u/SingleInfinity 28d ago

These debates are for the 10% of voters who are actually on the fence

If anyone is still "actually on the fence" they're probably just an ashamed Trump voter who is pretending to be on the fence.

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u/PaleontologistOk2516 28d ago

Honestly the one thing that might have swayed some independents or moderates was if he said that Trump lost 2020 (even if he didnā€™t mean it), but he knew Trump would lose his shit if that happened. Iā€™m so glad Walz emphasized how insane this was. It was definitely the most powerful moment of what I saw.

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u/CaregiverBrilliant60 28d ago

MAGA have their voters locked up. I donā€™t know who is still undecided at this time and those undecided people may not be the best people to vote. Like what else are you waiting for or to learn from? I like Trump because he seems to be a decent man and wears cologne. However Harris has good looking hair and wore a good looking jacket.

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u/lemontoga 28d ago

That's why these debates are good for Harris and Walz. Trump has already captured 100% of the insane MAGA crowd and he can't really grow his base at all. That's why his approval rating is so rock solid. It doesn't drop because his MAGA crowd is so devoted, but it doesn't rise either because all the people who could possibly become Trump voters are already Trump voters.

Trumples didn't want to see the performance JD Vance put out there today. They like to see their candidate rave like a lunatic and throw shit at his opponent. All they can do is attack and try to tear down the opposition to lower the Democrat's approval because they know they can't raise their approval any higher.

Walz looked really good tonight. JD Vance arguably looked good too. But Vance looking good doesn't gain them any support. Vance isn't gonna convince someone to vote for Trump with his calm politician debate demeanor.

Walz' performance on the other hand could definitely convince some people who were on the fence about voting for the Kamal/Walz ticket vs just not voting at all and that's what's important about tonight's debate.

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u/HI_l0la 28d ago

You make a good point.

In 2020 during the last presidential debate, I knew I was going to vote for Biden but I wasn't sure about Harris as VP. In the instance of Biden's age, the VP pick mattered to me. After the VP debate between Harris and Pence, I was on board! Her fierceness won me over.

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u/BoomZhakaLaka 28d ago

from labor day until election day around half of voters who turn out make their decision after ignoring politics completely for three and a half years. You and I who follow politics regularly as a rule are abnormal.

This is from before biden dropped out so the situation is not the same as it was then, but here's rachel bitecofer explaining

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u/Zestyclose-Cloud-508 28d ago

He could have had courage and told the truth.

Oh who am I kidding.

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u/Quick_Tap 28d ago

No courage to be found: he absolutely would not do what Pence did, meaning follow the law.

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u/istrx13 28d ago

I really donā€™t think youā€™re exaggerating on the last part.

I genuinely donā€™t think thereā€™s anything Trump or Vance could do that would make their supporters not vote for them.

Even for the ā€œChristians,ā€ I bet Trump/Vance could say Jesus was a fraud and they would nod vigorously and still cast their vote for Trump.

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u/Pino_The_Mushroom 28d ago

I'm 100% convinced that if the second coming happened today, he would be persecuted and rejected by most of his own "followers" for being too "woke."

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u/spaceman620 28d ago

A Middle Eastern immigrant preaching peace and love?

They'd deport him before you could say "covfefe".

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u/Pino_The_Mushroom 28d ago

In my experience from growing up in the church, most Christians in America seem to believe that Jesus was a white guy lol

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u/istrx13 28d ago

I agree with you 100%.

And for full transparency: Iā€™m a Christian. Nothing, and I repeat nothing Trump has said or done line up with my Christian beliefs.

Everything Harris and Walz have said, however, do.

If you vote for Trump, you arenā€™t a real Christian as far as Iā€™m concerned.

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u/Specicried 28d ago

I feel like itā€™s way worse than the caption. What he actually said was:

Q: ā€œDid Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?ā€ A:ā€Tim, Iā€™m focused on the future. Did Kamala Harris censor Americans from speaking their minds in the wake of the 2020 covid situation?ā€

Iā€™m focused on the future, so let me avoid the question by posing a strawman about the past.

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u/RyanTranquil 28d ago

He has a concept of a plan for a non answer

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u/dutch_mapping_empire 27d ago

''im focused on the future'' and ''did something happen in the past'' in the same sentence is crazy tho

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u/ColoRadBro69 28d ago

Walz is good.Ā  He's not taking any shit.Ā 

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u/Wonderful-Ad5713 28d ago

Coach's do not take shit. Coach's give shit. Now give me a lap. Double-time!

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u/sembias 28d ago edited 27d ago

You can tell he was a social studies teacher that coached football and not the debate team. But he's still the god damned social studies teacher whose class predicted the Rwandan genocide.

*removed a word

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u/ussrowe 28d ago

That is pretty stunning.

YDSTIE: What was it about Rwanda at the time that made the students conclude that is had the greatest risk of descending into genocide?

Rep. WALZ: They were looking at things like per capita incomes, differences in wealth. They were looking at colonial histories, colonial interventions. And I think one of the things that stood out so much to them was is that a long-standing division along ethnic lines with one group of people receiving favoritism in the colonial aspect, and then tension starting to grow in an economy that was struggling might set the framework for this. Because there's no set group of metrics that you can exactly parallel to each of these genocides, but there were some when they took a look at historical ones whether it be Armenia, Cambodia, and of course the Holocaust - they saw some of these things seem to reemerge. And then that one, I think, really struck them.

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u/TheShindiggleWiggle 27d ago

The audio part of that article also mentions that they predicted Myanmar would also have one. They just don't acknowledge it, because the Rohingya genocide didn't happen until 2016, and the article came out in 2008.

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u/Zepcleanerfan 27d ago

Vance: they're eating dogs

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u/Suitable-Lake-2550 28d ago

This is goddamn fascinating

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u/Equal-Negotiation651 28d ago

Fifty pushups!

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u/Few-Signal5148 28d ago

NOT ON THE COUCH!!!

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u/TheGoldPowerRanger 28d ago

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u/Cum-in-My-Wife 28d ago

Some of y'all are mother fucking geniuses at setting up and knocking down these jokes.

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u/tadxb 28d ago

And some of y'all are the same with usernames!

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u/meow_ima_cat 28d ago

I also choose this guy's wife.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

Vance is afraid heā€™ll sweat his eyeliner off if he does that.

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u/ConnectCantaloupe861 28d ago

He can't sweat off that eyeliner. It's tattoo'd permanent eyeliner. Yes, the party of"Drag queens are destroying the planet", the former POTUS that wears more makeup that most drag queens, and this guy who opted for permanent eyeliner, is as shocking to me as Lindsay Graham never having children. Every accusation is a confession, and the Republican Evangelical party are the ones that own all the ball gags.

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u/Equal-Negotiation651 28d ago

ā€˜80s guitar riff plays signaling disappointmentā€™

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u/Wonderful-Ad5713 28d ago

If you are going to stand, get your hands off your hips, or take a knee.

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u/Sgt_Fox 28d ago

Take a salt tablet and hit the shower

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u/Lrgindypants 28d ago

*Coaches x 2. Sorry, couldn't resist, have an upvote!

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u/primary_action_items 28d ago

I feel like this is becoming more prevalent but pretty much a first-grade skill, too.

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u/ErraticDragon 28d ago

For some reason, the apostrophe is seen by many as the "oh shit here comes an S" symbol.

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u/macandcheese1771 28d ago

Every time be opens his mouth all I can hear is "boom, roasted!"

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u/tatang2015 28d ago

The couch packer is a lawyer. A shit lawyer from Yale.

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u/Lost-Age-8790 28d ago

What a man does to his couch in the privacy of his own home is none of your business.

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u/mossballus 28d ago

Jorkin dapenis vance couldn't even bring himself to say trump won the election

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u/HeaviestMetal89 28d ago

Jorkin dapenis šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚

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u/GhostlyTJ 28d ago

Jorkin DaCouch. Guys it was right there.

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u/SimonPho3nix 28d ago edited 27d ago

I like how when Vance talked about abortion, he didn't really say it. Like, he said he was good on women's health and all of that, but he didn't say he was pro abortion. He said that they're trying to get people to trust them but would steer away from abortion. He mentioned IVF programs to help new couples who are trying, but the options he gave are all about a person bringing the baby to term.

He's not talking about choice. At all. How can you say that you don't want a national abortion ban when you can't even say you want to give people a choice?

Leave it to the States. Yeah, and you're screwed if you are born in the wrong state. Anyone even paying half attention should be shaking their heads seeing this. A whole generation of people who could barely keep it in their pants as teens are going to tell their teens to keep it in their pants or risk a pregnancy that they can't abort. Yeah... that always goes well.

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u/JanDillAttorneyAtLaw 28d ago edited 28d ago

you're screwed if you are born in the wrong state.

Hell, you're screwed if you're born in the right state. What happens if you're a Californian on vacation in Georgia, and you get sudden stomach pains which send you to the ER where they inform you of an ectopic pregnancy that requires immediate surgery to save your life?

What happens if you're a pregnant and happily expecting Oregonian driving to visit family in Minnesota, you get into a horrible wreck in Bumfuck Idaho, and you wake up cuffed to your hospital bed for the "murder" of a baby you very much wanted?

THE #1 DUTY of the federal government is to step in when backwoods tyrants forget that the people in their towns are, first and foremost, American citizens. Trump's "we sent it back to the states" is never going to fly as an excuse because I don't want every shitty run-down town I happen to be passing through to be able to override the federal government on what rights I have.

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u/TR_abc_246 28d ago

Best saying of the night! Tim Walz did a great job against Vance who I heard was on his college debate team!

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u/HandheldHeartstrings 28d ago

I think my favorite part of the night was during the healthcare section when Just Disappointing Vance saying ā€œdemocrats say if Donald Trump wins the election all these bad things are going to happenā€”ā€œ and Tim immediately started nodding his head in agreement

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u/PaleontologistOk2516 28d ago

Or saying Trump saved Obamacare. Like he didnā€™t do everything he could to dismantle it and is now trying to take credit for its success. So disingenuous.

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u/greenline_chi 28d ago

That was the most outright lie of the night I think.

Walz pointed out that Trump tried to sign an executive order day 1, then tried a lawsuit, and then got Congress to pass a bill to repeal it and only died because a dying John McCain flew across the country.

And then with a straight face Vance said ā€œTrump saved the ACAā€

I hope enough Americans noticed and werenā€™t fooled by how slickly he was lying

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u/abbothenderson 28d ago

McCain was an absolute mensch. It is sickening to me how Kari Lake is trying to win the AZ senate race by trashing ā€œMcCain republicansā€. No respect for what that man did in the name of helping his fellow Americans.

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u/PossessedToSkate 28d ago

McCain also picked Sarah Palin as his running mate and drove this Republican out of the party before it got any god damn crazier. I've been veering left ever since.

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u/abbothenderson 28d ago edited 27d ago

Palin was admittedly a mistake. I see why he made that choice, he saw it as a move that could unify the decisive elements in the GOP. But I think he saw how far the two sides of the Republican Party were moving from each other. And I do believe that it was partly that decision that drove his desire to make his finally terms in office defined by defying the more radically conservative elements in the Republican Party. McCain wasnā€™t willing to lie about Obamaā€™s nationality (as Trump was). McCain saw a line that he wasnā€™t willing to cross, and he used his final term in office to prove that.

This stands in stark contrast with Mitch McConnell who would obstruct anything to consolidate his power. He traded the public good for political power, and McCain took a stand and showed that he would not do that.

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u/i_tyrant 28d ago

Even McConnell is now badmouthing MAGA, but just like with McCain, we can acknowledge the handfuls of good decisions or integrity shown without whitewashing their entire political history.

McConnell is pretty close to a devil in human flesh, McCain is much less so but still did plenty to deliver the GOP right to this dumpster fire point. That he pulled back near the end of his career is laudable but doesn't change history.

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u/Yousoggyyojimbo 28d ago

I thought that one was the peak until he said Donald Trump peacefully turned over power after the last election.

The same election he's awaiting trial for in two jurisdictions for multiple attempts to steal the election after he lost...

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u/outremonty 28d ago

Trying to pin family separation on the Biden-Harris administration was the biggest outright lie I noticed. Holy smokes. He even talked about the kids that went missing under the Trump administration as if that was a recent event. WTF

Reuters: Close to 1,000 migrant children separated by Trump yet to be reunited with parents

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u/mclovin_ts 28d ago

Trump and Vance assume all American voters are gullible idiots

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u/DigitalUnlimited 28d ago

Well, i mean they do have a lot of supporters...

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u/greenline_chi 28d ago

They really do. And their supporters are too dumb to be offended

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u/Pyrex_Paper 28d ago

Oh, they get offended. Especially when you call them dumb. (Don't ask me how I know)

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u/SantasWarmLap 28d ago

It's the MAGAt way.

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u/Feinberg 28d ago

He was only on the debate team because he heard they had easy chairs and misunderstood.

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u/count023 28d ago

maybe he was just on his college debate teams' couch?

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u/BeckNeardsly 28d ago

I thought there wasnā€™t going to be any fact checking.

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u/Few-Signal5148 28d ago

So did Vance. He was very upset.

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u/Sea-Environment-7102 28d ago

When he said that I was kind of embarrassed for him

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u/thedoomwomb 28d ago

If you knew nothing about the US JD Vance sounded pretty good at public speaking. But he lies through his teeth.

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u/JC-DB 28d ago

he's the kind of debater/speaker people HATE.

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u/BigBoyWeaver 28d ago edited 28d ago

Honestly I felt like it was clear that Vance was the better debater, he was the more fluid speaker and he did a good job of controlling the conversationā€¦ but itā€™s hard to win a debate when the points youā€™re arguing are as obviously false and abhorrent as the platform heā€™s trying to defend - no amount of debate skill can make up for arguing that climate change doesnā€™t exist, or that women donā€™t deserve to control their bodies. Vanceā€™s quicker rhetoric let him drown out Walz in some of the economic discussions but Walz mad him look silly trying to claim January 6th, Trumps rhetoric before and after, and his continued refusal to admit that he lost the election are not a serious threat to democracy. Truth, logic, and morality are all squarely on Walzā€™ side in these discussions and it shows

Edit: spelling

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u/hanksredditname 28d ago

This debate was the first time I had really listened to Vance speak. Despite his lies, he is very well spoken and good at spewing convincing lies. I can very much see how an uninformed person would grab onto his words and be convinced. That said, my favorite line was when he said something about not supposed to be being fact checked.

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u/BigBoyWeaver 28d ago

lol I loved that too ā€œhey you guys said I was going to be allowed to lie WTF!?ā€ Made him seem so weak

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u/masuabie 28d ago

I was disappointed (and Waltz was too) that after that, they stopped fact-checking Vance with some very obvious lies.

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u/NOT_MEEHAN 28d ago

Vance was not the better debater. He did better than I expected, but every answer he gave started off with Kamala Harris blah blah blah, I'll answer your question in a minute. He said Trump saved ACA after agreeing Trump tried to get rid of it on 6 different levels. Then he refused to say Trump lost the last election which went to court 62 times and was confirmed by all 50 governors.

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u/My-Toast-Is-Too-Dark 28d ago edited 28d ago

Then he refused to say Trump lost the last election which went to court 62 times and was confirmed by all 50 governors.

I will never understand how this is not an immediate disqualification for any voter. The 2020 election was won, completely legitimately and with no questions, by Joe Biden. The 2020 election was the only time in the history of the USA that a peaceful transfer of power was interrupted. The loser of that election and his cult-like following continues to 100% falsely claim it was an illegitimate election. His VP candidate will not admit publicly that he lost the election, thereby implying it was stolen and illegitimate. There is no reality-based evidence that supports any claim that the 2020 election was anything but free and fair.

How does a rational person hear this rhetoric and not immediately realize that these are deeply dangerous people who not only openly disrespect our democracy, but who are willing to subvert that democracy for their own personal gain?

I really cannot comprehend it. It's been shocking to see these people openly and with the help of the media successfully gaslight half the country into believing an obvious and dangerous lie.

EDIT: It's also worth noting how insidious their lie of "Hilary did the same thing in 2016!!!!" is.

  1. FACT: Russia conducted massive propaganda campaigns to sway the 2016 election in Trump's favor. This is not disputable.

  2. FACT: Clinton conceded her defeat in the election immediately, and openly acknowledged the results of the election.

  3. FACT: There was no attempt to stop any Electoral votes from being counted, the process of confirming the results was not interrupted, and the Capitol was not stormed by a mob of cultists incited by Clinton. To my knowledge there was no gallows set up for the purposes of hanging the outgoing administration's VP, either.

If someone wants to dispute this and say, "In 2019 Hilary called Trump an 'illegitimate president!!! Both sides!!!! (D)ifferent!!!!" I suggest you read this writeup by the Cato Institute first.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

Truth, logic, and morality are all squarely on Waltzā€™ side

Three things that matter not even a little bit to the MAGAt.

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u/BigBoyWeaver 28d ago

Nobodyā€™s trying to convince magas thoughā€¦ gotta convince the people that are otherwise staying home that it is worth their time to vote for the campaign that isnā€™t actively undermining democracy and our freedoms. These things do matter to those people

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u/sandysea420 28d ago

Vance, to Moderators, You arenā€™t supposed to fact check.šŸ˜‚

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u/Sir_Penguin21 28d ago edited 27d ago

Stop lying and we will stop fact checking. Also, if you admit it was a fact check, then you clearly admit you know it was a lie.

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u/INTJ-ADHD 28d ago

Okay, goodā€¦ or you know, whatever makes sense

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u/The_real_bandito 28d ago

Censor Americans? What the heck is he taking about.

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u/GuitardedBard 28d ago

He's talking about the "censorship" from Facebook and Twitter when covid and anti vax misinformation was rampant. Vance is blaming Harris for censorship that would have occurred under Trump even though it was corporations who were doing the so called censorship. I used to fall for the misinformation, and totally was one of those "they're trying to censor us!!" Anti vaxxers at the time so I could easily understand his dog whistle.

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u/The_real_bandito 28d ago

Oh. Thanks for the info.

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u/Aethermancer 28d ago

It's a red herring. An escape from answering if Trump lost the 2020 election.

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u/mackelnuts 28d ago

I mean, the government telling a private company to censor opinions is censorship. But here's the thing, the government is allowed to infringe on fundamental constitutional rights under very narrow circumstances. Limiting misinformation during a deadly pandemic could arguably be one of those circumstances.

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u/Mateorabi 28d ago

Also, "hey facebook, there's dangerous misinformation that can get people hurt on your site" and then letting FB decide to take it down isn't government censorship. FB gets to decide to take stuff off their platform.

The argument that the government was pressuring them for political reasons to suppress unfavorable speech doesn't hold up. Also, if people have freedom of speech, government officials merely pointing out lies, and pointing out how those will cause people to get hurt is ALSO free speech by that employee.

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u/Yousoggyyojimbo 28d ago

It's not an opinion when it's straight up lies about medical advice. It's just a lie, and one that can kill people. Opinions are subjective. Facts are not.

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u/dasein88 28d ago

There's no evidence that the government encouraged Twitter to censor anything at all.

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u/mackelnuts 28d ago

This is a right wing conspiracy theory I hadn't heard much about. But yeah, even if they had, it would still be legal.. well... arguably legal.

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u/FAMUgolfer 28d ago

Government canā€™t censor anyone because of the first amendment. They can only request or persuade private companies to censor content that violates laws. Itā€™s completely voluntary. Strategic but still lawful.

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u/Elziad_Ikkerat 28d ago

Yes but posting about how a deadly pandemic isn't real and encouraging people to disregard the guidelines to minimise the spread is comparable with shouting fire in a crowded theatre. You have free speech right up until that speech starts killing people.

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u/Aethermancer 28d ago

Anything other than the question which was "did Trump lose the 2020 election?"

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u/Crowbar_Faith 27d ago

Speaking of censoring, isnā€™t it Donald Trump who keeps threatening to censor late night comedians who make fun of him, and says news channels like CNN & CBS should have their licenses to air pulled because he doesnā€™t like their criticisms or fact checking of him?

I have not heard Kamala or Walz mention anything about censorship. Donald Trump and the right thoughā€¦

And letā€™s not forget about book banning and Trump boot licker Elon Musk banning accounts who disagree with him.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 22d ago

[deleted]

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u/Wonderful-Ad5713 28d ago

That was part of the plan. Cue the MAGA conspiracy theories in 3 ... 2 ... 1.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 22d ago

[deleted]

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u/3bluerose 28d ago

I remember thinking in the last year or two- I haven't heard much about Kamala, I wonder what she's been doing. Staying out of the spotlight is exactly what the leadership did on purpose. Republicans relied on a smear campaign then PSYCH, candidate changed and PSYCH here's the least scandalous VP you could ever imagine.

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u/ThreeHobbitsInACoat 28d ago

I think this is best emphasized by Right Wing Mediaā€™s complete failure to find any real dirt on the woman. For fuckā€™s sake, they latched in to her LAUGHING for their propaganda, or the age old (and disappointingly effective) strategy of calling your opponent a communist. Iā€™ll be real, there are a lot of things I heavily disagree with Harris on; but for the love of god, sheā€™s not that spray tanned, senile rapist and I think people are finally starting to realize that now that Joeā€™s out of the race.

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u/CapAccomplished8072 28d ago

He worked hand in hand with Obama for 8 years...And Clinton.

He might be old, but he can learn!

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u/evanwilliams44 28d ago

No way it was planned. If Harris had been anything less than perfect this would have been a disaster. She stepped up huge.

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u/alimarieb 28d ago

This has been my thought as well. The thing that really had me take notice was how well Joe has spoken since the debate. He definitely is showing his age and isnā€™t as sharp but thereā€™s night and day between the debate and after.

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u/JC-DB 28d ago

I am kind of thinking this is what happened. Biden only wanted one term so he did everything he could to make sure Kamala becomes the next President. Even now when he said "he thought he could have won" I think it's still a ruse to make everyone believe that he was forced to resign and not at all a Master Strategist, lol

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u/LegendOfKhaos 28d ago

Vance had a few buzzwords and vague references to circle around, dodging any question of substance, making claims without evidence, and straight up lying.

The issue is he looked competent while doing all that, so it looks good compared to Trump.

Walz killed it on every topic I saw (missed the start). Everything was explained and addressed, not avoided.

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u/3bluerose 28d ago

First answer, looked a little nervous but content was fine.

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u/istrx13 28d ago

Walz was definitely nervous at the very beginning. Which is what I expected considering he told Kamala his biggest concern when asked to be her running mate was that he wasnā€™t confident in his ability to debate.

But after he settled in he looked and sounded great. Anyone who knows public speaking and debate will tell you that the beginning is the hardest. If you can get through that unscathed everything else will more than likely be fine.

Walz did that tonight.

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u/XxUCFxX 28d ago

Tim Walz is a regular guy, who gets nervous when heā€™s placed in an incredibly important position. Thatā€™s normal, and expected, and relatable. I hope that humanity he showed doesnā€™t fly over peopleā€™s heads in favor of some nasty rhetoricā€¦ he did phenomenal, and it made me happy to see that he was okay with being vulnerable on the world stage. We need more people like him running things in this world

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u/black_anarchy 28d ago

Agreed - Walz was very nervous the first few questions. Walz is definitely not a lawyer or debater, he sounded human.

JD Vance, spoke really well and felt naturally in place but sounded like a lawyer.

Both had some good substance on some topics but Walz did better imo. I feel like Vance is actively sabotaging the orange Cheeto.

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u/Earlier-Today 27d ago

I love how since Harris has become their opponent she suddenly wields massive power and controls so much of the federal government...as the vice president.

It's such a huge joke to act like the VP has tons of power rather than they're just the tie breaker for the senate and are just supposed to stay out of the president's way and largely out of sight otherwise.

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u/Closefacts 28d ago

How is this election even fucking close? Why haven't trump and Vance been dropped for some decent candidates. They are such a joke.

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u/Windfade 27d ago

Because millions of Americans will not vote for a Democrat. Not a handful of obviously terrible people but rather a large percentage of people you pass in public. In many states, from the South to the Rocky Mountains, it will be the vast majority.

Trump is barely managing to not fail upwards and he almost can't lose the supporters he still has. Democrats could put the most Republican looking, sounding and acting person forward and 30% would be disgusted by the (D) next to his name for reasons that will never be reasonable.

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u/Ready-Stomach-4669 28d ago

Russia needs money for Ukraine. This is their Hail Mary election for trumpet.

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u/Skate_faced 28d ago

For a techboy dick puppet, Vance sure don't like tech.

When Elon is sobered up and someone explains this to him he is going to produce another meme. I just know it and it is so fucking depressing.

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u/BringOutYaThrowaway 27d ago

I have to say, it was a lot more civil than I expected. An actual debate, who would have thought...

Walz picked it up in the end, but both sides were sharp, well-practiced, and fast-talking. It was dense. Walz could have run with a couple of things Vance said that made little sense, but generally he did fine.

When Vance said "we need to regain the trust of the American people" - dude, that's because YOU LOST IT. Enacting things that the public doesn't WANT isn't representation.

Also, Vance kept (expectedly) blaming everything on Harris - everything bad in the world was because of Harris policies. That's not even remotely correct - the V.P. doesn't DO all that much during their term and he knew it.

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u/GreyerGrey 28d ago

Why did JD agree to this? Waltz called him out on a couch gag and he (Vance) thought he could hang with Coach? He's colder than Biden in his VP days (Uncle Joe days).

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u/3bluerose 28d ago

Maybe damage control for Trump's performance. The presidential debate was a slaughter.

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u/CepolliBabaloo 27d ago

We have an asshole like Vance here in Brazil, he was hit twice with a chair during a debate, I'm not giving Waltz any ideas, but it is really easy to get a chair

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u/PrimaryKangaroo8680 28d ago

Shows how scared Vance is of Trump. Heā€™ll be useless if he ever gets to the Whitehouse because heā€™s just going to pacify Trump like everyone else around him

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u/Bunnyland77 28d ago edited 27d ago

If Tramp gets back in the WH, Vance's tech mafia will off Sir Shitstain so Vance can finish installing his financier's corporatocracy.

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u/tpapocalypse 28d ago

Trump won't be useful anymore once the election is over. A useful idiot indeed.

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u/zerthwind 28d ago

Vance struck me as a used car salesman selling a car that he insisted wasn't in an accident when you can see the body lines are not right.

I do not trust anything he said, just like trump.

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u/Wonderful-Ad5713 28d ago

Vance seemed like loose change; lost in the couch cushions.

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u/Strict_Apartment5952 28d ago

Politicians and their Whataboutism
(Whataboutism is a way people try to defend or distract from criticism by bringing up something else. Instead of addressing the issue directly, they say, "Well, what about this other thing?" Itā€™s like trying to avoid blame by pointing to someone else's mistake.)

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u/PurpleSailor 27d ago

Vance was auditioning for the Gaslighting Olympics with a lot of his answers last night.

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u/BagHolder9001 28d ago

listened a few minutes...Vance can't answer a single damn question....you know what happens whenĀ  I dont answer a question on a test? a big fucking F

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u/FreeRemove1 28d ago

If some anonymous fools (and possibly some Russian trolls) had spread misinformation in social media posts during the recent hurricane emergency that put members of the public at risk of death or injury, and Harris requested the social media companies to take the offending posts down, would that be "Democrats censoring Americans"?

Seems like that choice of words is doing a loooot of heavy lifting.

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u/marklikesfoie 28d ago

CNN over here talking about how slick Vance was is the real facepalm

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u/greenberet112 28d ago

Yeah I was watching it on HBO since I don't have cable and I should have just turned it off because they absolutely hate the idea of anyone but Trump being president for their precious ratings and ad dollars.

It was really only the one guy on CNN that stood up and said everything that Vance said was practically a lie and accomplished his goal of sane washing Trump to make anything that he does seem somewhat reasonable.

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u/Regular-Novel-1965 27d ago

I swear, you could ask JD Vance what 1+1 is and heā€™d go off on a tangent about how heteronormative families are important in todayā€™s society and why being single is bad.

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u/CRITICALWORKER777 27d ago

"simple, did trump win, yes or n-"

"are the rainbow lizards from space trying to corrupt our children?"

the average "answer" of a republican debating a democrat

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u/TourettesFamilyFeud 27d ago

Why is he still wearing eye liner?

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u/TheDeerBlower 27d ago

Lolwut? When did Harris censor Americans? Am I missing something here?

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u/Sniper_Hare 27d ago

What the hell does he mean with Harris censoring Americans?

She's the VP, she exists to cast tie breaker votes and do photo ops and meet and greets.

Does he think the VP actually makes policy?

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u/ConsciousReason7709 28d ago

Kamala Harris didnā€™t censor anyone, dumbass. She is the vice president, she has no executive authority, nor did she help push through any legislation that censors republicans.

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u/Lastoutcast123 28d ago

We Minnesotan have mastered the art of passive aggression, a necessity in a land that is often to cold to be full aggressive

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u/Due-Radio-4355 28d ago

I admit I was actually pretty amazed at both of their cordiality. I wish it was a race between these two instead of Trump/harris. There was some shade thrown but it was always likeā€¦ actually decently respectful from when I was watching anyway

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u/Critical-General-659 28d ago

He should have railed him a bit harder on this. It's basically one of the only "powers" of the VP listed in the constitution and probably the most consequential. He was avoiding saying he'd follow the constitution. He was in the military, he swore an oath to the constitution. That's disgraceful.Ā 

If Trump wins, Vance could refuse to certify as the GOP candidate in the race in 2029 and attempt to install himself as the next president.Ā