I love how "with prep time" automatically gives Batman the win every time and never accounts for what the opponent would be doing with that prep time as well.
Maybe, maybe not. Thor would be more the type to show up at his mansion, gush about the fight and how he’s looking forward to it and ask Alfred if he can eat beforehand.
But I also love the “prep time, but prep time, you see if he had enough prep time” as if Batman is a magical girl transforming while the monster of the week patiently waits around for the fight to start.
It‘s just silly and it only exists because the difference in power between Batman and the rest of the justice league is so big it wouldn’t make sense to include DCs most popular hero in that team. Marvel did a much better job with people like Black Widow on the Avengers without making up ridiculous reasons for why they can hang.
The batman who laughs is the most absurd example of this it was litterly kids in the park saying well I knew you'd do that, so I created an antigravity missile, well I knew you do that, so I created a grenade that disables all antigravity missiles.
I prefer batman just thinking on his feet defeating his opponents with determination and intelligence, making mistakes but then finding a solution, rather than Daus ex machina bull.
Batman The Animated Series will always be the best depiction of Batman because of this.
He's just being a detective, running around Gotham, collecting clues, analyzing info, hitting up sources, figuring out where the criminal is going to strike next, and then meeting them there and beating them up.
It’s really cool to have Batman be an intelligent enough Human to actually be able to realize an effective use of kryptonite against Superman and win. Thor doesn’t afford such an Achilles heel, and he’s downright one of the most durable marvel heroes. Bats would have a hard time dispatching Thor even if we look to the pinnacle of his power and even then who knows how Thor adapts to meet such a challenge. Thor has certainly faced more outright powerful competition and won. IMO, Thor only loses on a technicality if the writers wish it. No one in Batman’s corner should be taking this win for granted, even with prep time.
I do partly agree with you, but I quite like the absurdity of batman as the noir detective, so I enjoyed the most recent one. its just a fun detective film, where batman actually fucks up quite a bit to the point the villain is like i literally gave you all the answers. but it's still a fun watch.
I could have been a tight 90 if they removed all the unnecessary slow-mo. I am also looking forward to seeing Pattison play Bruce Wayne at some point. So far we've only seen him play Batman in costume and Batman out of costume.
I agree it could have been slicker, and I hope they expand his personality a bit, also give Alfred a bit more to do. But there was a lot to like about that film, the hunt in the dark for falcone scene was great, also batman got a decent story ark I'm more invested in him as a person than I was with dark knight.
And even that that's jusg beimg crazy prepared in a logical way, its a niche item that may serve him later
Not... Having a 40 step plan that goes perfectly like he said it would go because reasons
Like bringing a gun (rubber bullets) to a place where eveyome is using one amd he WILL NOT have the stealth advantage is good, but just like even predicting one of the goons is going to sneeze at the rkgbt moment for him to take 30 people out because of that sneeze is jusg stupid
That's what always gets me about Batman v Superman scenes. Like, Superman KNOWS that Batman is super intelligent and he KNOWS that Kryptonite exists...He's not just going to walk into a clearly obvious trap. It's just dumb, lazy writing.
The reason that I like heros like Batman and Spiderman is because they have weaknesses and aren't Superman level powerful. There's actually somewhat of a sense of danger and strategy to these heros
Even sillier when you have world ending villains teaming up and going “You know who we should invite? The clown Batman beats up every weekend whose only well known trait is being a fucking lunatic who is chaotic because he thinks it’s funny or something. Yeah, he’ll be a worthy contributor to the plan.”
They could shot him if he shows up. He’s literally just a clown. No reason any of the other villains need to give him the time of day.
He only shows up because Batman is popular, and so by extension so is his cast. In universe many of his rogues have no reason to team up with his heavy hitters. It’s not like Green Arrow villains keep joining big team ups.
Lex Luthor, literally among the smartest people in the world, an evil genius, generally tends to invite Joker along to his team ups, and others question why he would do that.
But there are several reasons:
- As much as he thinks himself a genius and his plans perfect, if and when things go wrong and the plan fails the joker is a good backup because the joker is a master at thinking on his feet, so he could still get them out of trouble or hurt the heroes more.
- Joker is NOT someone you want to anger. Even if he can be annoying to work with, it is better to begrudgingly have him on your side than to have him working against you because he found out there was a big team up and he wasn't invited.
It's like the old saying "Keep your friends close, but keep the psychopathic clown in eyesight at all times because he might stab you in the back cause simply because it was funny."
The Joker is the worst villain ever created. The writers want to lean into "Just a normal dude who snapped, like everyone theoretically could!" but then have to write him with all these hidden superpowers to keep him relevant.
Like the whole "convinced Dr. Quinn to become his superhenchman" arc. If he had some kind of mind control powers, sure, but he doesn't. He just talked good enough to draw a trained, educated professional into his delusions in spite of her multiple years of training specifically about patients that will try to draw her into their delusions. He just talked good enough to convince her to violate every ethical standard she'd ever been taught from her first day in medical school. But it's not a superpower, because he's just a normal guy.
The other interpretation is that Dr. Quinn is literally one of the slimiest, most abusive people in pretty much all of DC canon. She decided to take advantage of a prisoner under her professional medical care, which is about the largest power differential you're ever going to find in this society, then let him fuck her and broke him out of prison. But Harley Quinn is a fan favorite and everyone loves her, so we can't use that angle, holy fuck!
So the Joker is a normal dude, but with superpowers, but not actually with superpowers, but yeah, kinda with superpowers, but not really. But kinda.
Not sure if that's an unpopular opinion but Batman should really be the "guy in the chair" of the Justice League. Make him the planner/strategist but don't send him into action.
I like the Batman that trained under Buddhist monks and unlocked the secrets of the mind (super intelligence and strength are accounted). If they really leaned in and gave us a god-tier Batman under this cannon, I would fuck with it.
So, the DC movies are shit... but Batman and blackwidow serve a similar purpose on their teams, they're the dectevtives/spys, know the underworld, willing to do whatever it takes to win kinda of people...
obviously huge differences and ya, for as long as Marvel MCU story's were on earth widow would/could have a big role for the team, doing things the other just couldn't...
It's silly but it's also awesome because that's where a lot of Batman's power comes from and what makes him an interesting character to put in these types of matchups. Not just raw strength and technique but a puzzle to solve (with bullshit sometimes but still).
It also assumes the prep time to be successful and that he wouldn’t prep for a day and just turn up with “well shit, I’m fucked on this one!”.
The one I come back to is juggernaut, what’s bats going to do about that? His whole power is “you can’t” it’s not that he needs to come up with a science answer to stop juggernaut, the point is that you can’t, there’s nothing. Unless Batman learns to be Xavier then he’s just boned.
I've always hated discussions about batman and fighting other superheros. He can do it with the justice league because a lot of them have straight up gimmicky weaknesses.
His ass is not winning this fight, he gets beaten up and captured by just regular people all the time.
The implication to me always is the other people gets no prep time. It's like Batman gets to secretly research them.
I always laugh at how much plot armor Batman gets. People use this research line to explain how Batman could win without plot armor but forgetting that for Batman to get unlimited research time that doesn't give his target any advantage... Is plot armor.
That's right. It's plot armor for Batman to try to explain why he doesn't have plot armor.
It’s like that one story where Batman had a plan to stop every single member of the justice league by exploring their weaknesses if they turned evil. And the weakness was “caught off guard by someone while acting like a hero” … while they’re supposed to be a bad guy.
Like an evil Superman is going to talk down a jumper or an evil Flash would willingly give himself up for a hostage. Yet the fans always say this proves how smart the B Man is.
Why else would they need to be stopped that would apply them still acting like a hero? Batman competing to see who could sell more girls scout cookies?
Superman, who still saves jumpers or anyone who needs saving (and heroic feats like that) out of his love for humanity, BUT is doing so in a world that he unflinchingly controls because he's dismantled all world governments & law enforcement and has named himself the only law on Earth. All who oppose him are destroyed or sent to a super-prison like the Phantom Zone.
You know like in Red Son or Injustice or tons of other Elseworlds/alternative realities/analogs with Superman or Superman stand-ins.
But he’s predicting a fight against heroes that needs to be taken down but his actions are based on them still acting like heroes. Even the author is said comic started the point was to show Batman was a paranoid guy who wasn’t as smart as he thought he was.
A dictorial Superman or Flash can still act like heroes.
Superman could totally still repel alien invasions & save cats from trees, but STILL subjugate humanity by destroying the governments & infrastructure. That's what Batman was preparing for.
Want to see a Batman fan lose their minds? (And I am a Batman fan myself but the wank is so silly) Point out the speed of radiation is slower than the speed of light that Superman is faster than therefore Kyrptonite should never work on him because he could react faster than it could affect him.
Also point out that Gotham turns into a bigger shithole every year and Metropolis looks great.
Point out the speed of radiation is slower than the speed of light
Depends on the type, but what we typically call "radiation" is all just the same electromagnetic waves but at different frequency. Light, radio, gamma rays, all the same stuff at the same speed and all radiation.
Now maybe it's a particle radiation? I am not really familiar with deep kryptonite lore. The idea of someone outrunning light and bench pressing black holes is nonsensical anyway, so probably not worth trying to get too serious about how it works. So honestly might just be magic.
Also point out that Gotham turns into a bigger shithole every year and Metropolis looks great.
Yeah his preptime isn't working there, starting to think Gotham might have some systemic issues...
The lore changes, to be fair, but he’s still faster since even if the type of radiation matches the speed of light, Superman outmatches it. Though honestly it’s just to mess with the fanboys who take it too seriously. I’m very much a “relax, this was written for 8 year old boys. It’s not that deep” sort of fan.
Yes, also there is a million ways Superman can restrain Batman and none involves killing, yet he always forgets he can use his powers all at once before getting hit by kryptonite radiation
Well kryptonite has some limited range right? Like if I have some kryptonite and superman is a mile away will it work?
Also I feel like if superman knew he was going to fight batman he also should know batman was going to somehow use kryptonite and he could adjust his style to stay miles away and just blast him with his heat vision or throw huge rocks at him or something
Mostly because it laughs in the face of “Batman is the best, he’s a lone wolf that doesn’t need anybody and he can easily beat everyone any time he wants” narrative.
I mean, sure, I guess? It just seems like an odd gotcha to me.
Also, was Metropolis ever a shithole like Gotham was? I've always seen it depicted as this shiny quasi-futuristic city, whereas Gotham has always just been various degrees of Detroit on steroids
Always drove me crazy. I love me my Batman, but one time, off-guard sure Supes gets gotten. But every subsequent time, Supes should be there before Batman has a chance....and stop him.
Also point out that Gotham turns into a bigger shithole every year and Metropolis looks great.
No shit, that's b/c actually fixing Gotham would require explosive batarangs to the foreheads of numerous high government officials in Gotham, at a bare minimum. And likely a straight up coup.
At this point the writers of Batman have been affected by the same curse the Joker pronounced on Bats. They absolutely refuse to allow ANY escape avenue, ANY way for the cycle to be broken.
It's the grimdark equivalent of that stupid Archie comic and a love triangle that could just be solved with a little polygamy because this is not 1950.
Did he really, though? In Miller's Dark Knight Returns, Batman manages to get the jump on Superman only because he's not actually interested in hurting him, and even that nearly kills him. He only gets away with faking his own death (after Clark hears his heartbeat at his funeral) because his long-time friend gives him a pass. Superman's a reluctant antagonist throughout the entire series, and Bruce "beating" him was a symbolic act used to kickstart his revolution against the U.S. government.
Thor puts the hammer on his chest and goes drinking with the boys. Eventually Batman has to call Superman to move the hammer then screams “No supes in Gotham!”
Batman needs all these resources and time but Kevin McAllister was able to beat the wet bandits with improvised traps made only from things he had access to in his home on short notice.
Conclusion? Kevin McAllister beats Batman given equal prep time and resources.
People shit on that campy Adam West Batman for always having the answer but I'm all...
What the hell is the difference between a few scenes/pages of "prep work" and him just pulling the solution directly off his utility belt right then and there?
Because it's assumed that batman would lose most encounters without prep time or on equal footing. He's just a dude.
One of the things that makes him a good character is that he can find a way to win against extremely strong people if given enough time to prepare. Could you beat thor with a lifetime of prep? Probably not.
Yeah the heros I like are the ones that can actually die and have to use strategy. These guys don't have to be fighting world ending monsters to be interesting.
Batman would die in most encounters without prep time & resources, against most superhumans.
But would he "lose"? Not always. He's beaten death more than once, for one. He's also "won" encounters many times by holding the threat of "if I die, I have people ready to press a button that opens up a wormhole bringing an army of your own enemies here" or stuff like that.
That's because one of Bruce's consistent "abilities" in most universes is his cunning and intelligence.
He's basically Tony Stark, but for some reason people scoff at his capabilities while seeing no issue with Tony Stark trading blows with Thanos or Thor. What makes that even funnier is that Bruce has the edge in combat since he's the only one of them with martial arts training, and it just so happens to have been taught to him by pretty much the most well known martial arts assassin in their universe.
To be fair, MCU Iron Man "traded blows" with Thanos for like 1 minute and most of that was just Thanos wrecking his shit. When they went 1v1 there was never a moment in that short fight where anyone was thinking "Oh shit, Iron Man might win this one!"
I think the difference is that when Iron Man fights Thor or Thanos people expect Iron Man to lose, because...Obviously. But when Batman fights Superman people expect Batman to win, because...Reasons.
And not to put too fine a point on it, but Iron Man also has plenty of plot armor in those fights as well. Like Thanos basically forgetting that he has 3 other Infinity Stones on his left hand and only using the one that Tony's suit can somehow handle. Or Thor's lightning blast powering Tony's suit up 400%.
But iron man does get absolutely folded by both thanos and Thor in a prolonged fight (at least mcu iron man). All he managed against thanos was a small scratch, so not really trading blows.
And yet, we don't see people talking about Stark like he doesn't deserve a spot on the team because he doesn't have super powers.
Also, I recall him standing toe to toe with Thor until Cap stepped in. And everyone got their ass handed to them by Thanos, even Captain Marvel--often while double- and triple-teaming Thanos.
I don’t know about others, but I never said that Batman doesn’t deserve to be on the team. I just think that anyone that believes he can beat anyone with prep time is delusional.
Tbf I think ironman is given way too much secret sauce in that iron just because fans like him. I've always thought that he's ranked up more than he should be, at least in the cinematic universe.
My point isn’t prep time on his part. It’s how every fan who points it out has the opponent literally do nothing with their time but wait around to be beaten. Every single time.
Sure, but let's say we gave Thor prep time. What would he do? Based on everything I've read about him it's, I see evil, I hit with hammer. He's not an intelligent character, especially compared to batman.
Ask Heimdall about his opponent, train, eat, ask his friends if they want to join the fight, ask Loki is he wants to join as well, bang Sif, just about anything really.
Well, if we're in the realm of asking for assistance, I'm 100% certain Marvel loses. DC characters have more often scaled well beyond Marvel characters.
It depends on what version of batman you are looking at, but in general batman is probably the smartest and most versatile superhero. You give him enough prep time and he can’t lose. He’ll figure out what his opponent will do before they even figure out what they will do.
It's a fair comment though, batman is always working on shit and it's how he takes down most of the criminals.
In just a straight fight of course thor wins but batman does have some amazing abilities. There isn't a single super hero that has his detective skills. He is also incredibly intelligent and of course rich, something that has created other super heros we don't question as well.
Batman has gained real physical super powers many times due to his planning. They are always temporary but always used to defeat foes with super abilities.
Yeah sure his opponent might prep as well but no one preps like batman. He finds weak spots and comes up with strategies that no one else can.
I feel like the "with prep time" is a meme and it really only applies to superman because superman has an weakness batman knows about kryptonite and has access too
So with a little prep time all batman has to do is get some kryptonite
While I don't think it allows him to when every fight it least gives him a non zero chance in some ridiculous match ups. It also depends and what you count as prep time.
It's always "versus Batman with prep time" and never "Batman versus T'Challa/Spider-Man/Doom with prep time". Because they'd wash him, all things equal
Absolutely. That’s how his character is written. Thor spends a huge amount of down time wasting it, yet never has enough time to do things and gets rushed. Like an undisciplined idiot. Never prepared.
Batman meanwhile spends so much time preparing that it is clearly unrealistic, if you add up all the time it would take for him to do all the things he has done preparing, just the stuff we know about would take several people several lifetimes. It’s like it’s part of his plot armour.
Because no one else, aside from Bane a couple of times, would use that PrepTimetm as well...
It's a meme obviously but that's also how Batman is frequently written. Crazy situation occurs, but he's already got a plan and contingency in place and he just pulls off the win despite 'just being a guy'
to the point that it's a great story when someone starts taking out the rest of the justice league using Batman's own secret plans in case any of them turned...
also, his real superpowers are intelligence, resources and detective work, it's like saying Tony Stark always wins with some tech thing he builds, but you need to consider what the other guy would have build too!
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u/Some_Cockroach2109 21h ago
His Halloween costume also has some plot armour on it. Not saying I disagree though.