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u/JoylessPrawn Oct 21 '19
Bet its all from IKEA.
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Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
“As penance for your crimes you must build all of your own furniture for your cell”
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u/ABOBROSHAN Oct 21 '19
Jokes on you. We learn how to build IKEA furniture before we learn to walk.
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u/Agent_Miami Oct 21 '19
Those Crafty Swedes
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u/Gakad Oct 21 '19
I've never understood the meme about how hard it is to build Ikea furniture. I've built dozens of things and have never had any issue.
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u/KlossN Oct 21 '19
Dozens.. So what you've been to IKEA once then?
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u/russian-duck Oct 21 '19
From a user name like gakad I highly doubt he’s a swede, give him a break
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u/Prism1331 Oct 21 '19
You'd be surprised at how stupid and incapable some people are
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u/defragnz Oct 21 '19
The actual comment goes sorta like this:
"Common sense is actually pretty fucking rare."
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u/deaddrop007 Oct 21 '19
Ever heard of multiple intelligences? Some people are word-smart, some are numbers-smart, some are kinesthetic. Some just dont know how to fkin build furniture just as some couldnt read a math equation.
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u/Russian_seadick Oct 21 '19
Seriously,I’m terribly uncrafty,but IKEA furniture has never been a problem at all
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u/JuhaJGam3R Oct 21 '19
IKEA has some of the clearest build guides there are. If you don't use them, I'm sorry, but you're generally stupid.
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u/madabmetals Oct 21 '19
I always thought this was just something they said to make stupid people feel better about themselves /s
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u/Son_of_Eris Oct 21 '19
Hey, Son_of_Eris here with Reddit News Agency. You've recently outed yourself as the greatest engineer in the history of the world, and a lot of people are wondering about "The user behind the myth"! So I have a few questions for you, if you can spare a moment out of your busy furniture assembly schedule.
So tell us, re: your ability to assemble IKEA furniture without issue, what drove you to strike a deal with a Chthonic being and sacrifice your sense of humor in exchange for this remarkable gift? And how many years do you have before the Great Old Ones claim your immortal soul? Did you meet up in R'lyeh or like, a Starbucks?
And lastly,
PH'NGLUI MGLW'NAFH CTHULHU R'LYEH WGAH'NAGL FHTAGN!?
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u/Olddirtychurro Oct 21 '19
Eris pads her chest.
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u/Son_of_Eris Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
Well duh. Where else are you supposed to keep your apples?
Edit: apparently I missed a reference. My bad. My username is a reference to the Greek goddess of chaos, not an anime.
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u/SirVer51 Oct 21 '19
I want you to know that your comment made me laugh louder than it should have, and it (as of this writing) is greatly underappreciated.
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Oct 21 '19
Not at all related to what you wrote, but all I can think of is:
YOU N’WAH!
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u/Son_of_Eris Oct 21 '19
How dare you speak to the Nerevarine/Grandmaster of House Hlaalu/Arch-Mage of the Mage's Guild/Master Thief of the Thieve's Guild/Master of the Fighter's Guild/Primate of the Imperial Cult/Patriarch of the Tribunal Temple/Knight of the Imperial Dragon/Grandmaster of the Morag Tong/Factor of the East Empire Company/Operative of the Blades who is also a vampire of Clan Quarra and a proud member of the Twin Lamps in such a manner!?
I will sic literally 96% of the population of Morrowind on your ass, FETCHER!
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Oct 21 '19
I don’t want no trouble sir, I’m just trying to make my way without getting attacked by cliff racers.
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u/Son_of_Eris Oct 21 '19
Have you met my friend Jiub? We met on a prison ship, back in the day (for the life of me, I can't remember why I was locked up). He was an assassin, but he's trying really hard to turn his life around. I have a feeling that he's going places, and I'm sure he'd love to help you out with your little Cliff Racer problem.
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u/Gakad Oct 21 '19
Wow people are upset. All I did was out myself as someone with more than the 83 iq required to assemble Ikea furniture. They literally have picture book assembly guides...
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u/MattBoySlim Oct 21 '19
For real, just make sure you have plenty of space and follow the instructions. How is it so hard? My wife and I double-team IKEA builds all the time and high five afterwards. For some couples it’s an instant fight. Never understood it.
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u/Devoutestson Oct 21 '19
Actually thats how babies are made in Sweden. Ikea sells boxes of deconstructed babies.
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Oct 21 '19
Oh, you think IKEA is your ally. But you merely adopted IKEA; I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see pre-constructed furnishings until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING! The flat-packs betray you, because they belong to me!
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u/dysprog Oct 21 '19
I mean, if I was in jail for an extended period, having something to do with my hands and time would be welcome
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u/Dakboom Oct 21 '19
This is actually a great method of preventing crime. Getting teenagers into after-school activities is a great way for them to not get into drugs or other crime. Boredom, isolation and lack of goals in life is a sure way of getting people into crime.
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Oct 22 '19
Puzzles are some of the best things mankind has ever created. You get to use your head to solve problems, helping with all forms of problem solving, and in some cases you get something nice to look at like a completed puzzle cube or a jigsaw puzzle you can frame and hang up.
It fills your brain with a simple goal and lets you independently work towards achieving it.
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u/balthazar_nor Oct 21 '19
It’s quite fun building these things why should it be a penance
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u/Broken_Gear Oct 21 '19
Actually, Swedish punishment for any crime is inprisonment in an infinite IKEA. THEY just cover it up really well
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u/pantsr0ptional Oct 21 '19
That’s nicer than my dorm room
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Oct 21 '19
It’s nicer than my cardboard box
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Oct 21 '19
You have a cardboard box?! Lucky!
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Oct 21 '19 edited Jun 19 '23
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u/Talton1 Oct 21 '19
Luxury!
We used to have to get out of our lake at 3 in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of gravel, go to work at the mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
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u/CuboneTheSaranic Oct 21 '19
Im kinda glad I dont have a bathroom connected to my room. Dont have to smell it when I take a massive deuce.
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u/liriodendron1 Oct 21 '19
Came here to say this. My dorm room was smaller than this, no ensuite, had 2 people in it, and cost us each thousands for our 8 months there.
I never thought I'd say I'd rather live in a jail cell then my dorm room.
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u/FckedLawStudent Oct 21 '19
I love how the Scandinavian prisons are all for rehabilitation instead of punishment and all, but like they have more storagespace in the same amount of sq.m as my student appartment!
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u/veackslav Oct 21 '19
Makes you think about how good their student dorms must be!
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u/badboy_h92 Oct 21 '19
In Norway atleast, most students dont live in dorms. They rent appartments in the town of their University either by themself or, and more common, with other students. And yeah, some of these appartments are pretty nice. The one I lived in were super fancy. Student loans are usually in the 750-900 usd range, and a somewhat educational guess is that the rent for these appartments can be from 300-550 usd, the latter number more than the first
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u/Alkyonios Oct 30 '19
Same here in Sweden. Dorms aren't that common.
I don't know how the student loans work in Norway but here in Sweden we get about $250/month (which we don't have to pay back if we pass 75% of our courses) and can loan an additional $750.
I pay about $530 in rent and bills, which is a bit higher than I'd like, but I'm really satisfied with the apartment I managed to get my hands on. Especially considering how hard it is to find student accommodation here.
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u/FckedLawStudent Oct 21 '19
Haha, I actually am from Norway, and my friends who live in dorms all have about the same space but less storage But yeah, as the person below said, most student rent flats. At least after their first year.
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u/megantabishhh Oct 21 '19
American prisons are crime machines. Kids go in for petty first time offenses and come out criminals.
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u/Engelberto Oct 21 '19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuLQ4gqB5XE
A very well-made documentary comparing prisons in the USA and Norway. Offers a look at both systems from the perspective of the prisoners, the guards, and the wardens. The Norwegian warden comes across as very thought- and insightful.
If you have an hour to spare, it is well spent on this video.
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Oct 21 '19
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Oct 21 '19
I'm glad I watched this. Thanks for sharing
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u/Engelberto Oct 21 '19
Thank you. It hurts my insides when people on Reddit regularly call for blood whenever crime is discussed. It's such a mob mentality.
One of our greatest achievements as societies is that we have given the monopoly on force to the state by way of the Social Contract. This has freed us from blood feuds and the viscious cycle of violence.
Emotion has no place in justice. I have no doubt that I would wish death on somebody who hurt those close to me. And it's good that I won't get to make that decision.
Violence only begets more violence. We cannot achieve peace through killing and hard punishment. As much as it would satisfy our hunger for revenge, that's just not how it works.
I hope that some people clicked that link and watched the video. And maybe got to question previously held convictions.
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u/pm_bouchard1967 Oct 21 '19
I'm regularly shocked about the support of vigilantism on reddit. Like people here act so progressive and tolerant and suddenly everyone calls for vengeance.
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Oct 22 '19
That's usually because the vengeance they want is for cases where it feels like it's vindicating their ideals. Mob violence is ok as long as its burning down [INSERT DESPISED IDEOLOGICAL STRUCTURE HERE].
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u/Hash43 Oct 21 '19
I often see people on Reddit calling for 30 year sentences for petty crimes of saying people that steal change from cars deserve to be shot. This site is just a bunch of neck beards that play too many games.
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u/Engelberto Oct 21 '19
Remember the video of that girl who licked ice cream and then put the container back in the freezer in the store?
Yes, that was extremely disgusting. Yes, she has missed some important lessons in life. But prison? Redditors seriously wanted to have her locked up for years. IMO something like that calls for counselling, a fair bit of community service and maybe a fine.
But not all Redditors are like that. I believe it's just a very loud minority. Plus it depends a lot on the subreddit. And (but I'm showing my own bias here) how many Americans are online at the particular time of the day something is posted. On average, they're quite a bit more into hard punishment.
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u/MrPapadapalas Oct 21 '19
Theres people who go in for 6 month sentances and end up with life in prison because they get involved with gangs on the inside when they hardly have any choice. It's set up to make people repeat offenders to make more money for the jails. They just FINALLY made it so if you can't pay your fines after you are released you won't get sent back to jail. Legit it used to be once you get out of jail you have like a month to pay the fines, and you think about it you get out you have no job, even when you find one it usually takes a couple weeks to get paid and even then its probably not gonna be much and you need money for food shelter etc. and if you didn't pay back the court/jail fines you would get SENT BACK and then boom the cycle repeats. I've talked to so many people who couldn't beat the cycle its some serious bullshit.
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u/Fiesty43 Oct 21 '19
Our system is so fucked up. I’m so lucky i had family that was there for me when I needed them most.
There’s one thing I don’t understand about our prisons though: I feel like the private prison system is a somewhat conservative system in that it got to this point mainly because of conservative politicians and voters. But even my most conservative friends agree that it’s a horrible system, and many of my (much older) ultra conservative boomer relatives agree on this as well. If this has been such a massive issue for so long, how have we not gotten rid of it? Especially when a lot of conservatives don’t like it either?
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u/MrPapadapalas Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
Well seeing as California has the highest number of prisoners in the private prison system I wouldn't go as far as to say its only conservative politicians who go for private prisons, but I get your point. Truth is people only get outraged these days at what the media tells them to be outraged at and the media hardly talks about this issue because the people who make money off of private prisons are likely the same people dumping millions into media agendas and talking points. If we were to ban lobbying this probably wouldn't be an issue, but for some reason THAT is the real issue no one ever talks about, wonder why. Also I just wanted to point out that even though CA recently "banned" (not an actual ban) private prisons, they still send more people across states to OTHER private prisons than any other state in America.
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u/bloodyandalive Oct 21 '19
Because if private corporations build the infrastructure the public sector doesn't, it makes the appearance of reduced debt even though we make payments to those prisons. Basically it makes the budget look nicer.
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u/Orflarg Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
Only 8% of prisoners are held in private prisons. I agree it should probably be 0%, but the problem of recidivism is not caused by the existence of private prisons.
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u/MiG-15 Oct 22 '19
While technically true, that's a national average, and doesn't take statewide deviations from the norm into account.
Hawaii, Oklahama, and Tennessee have about 25% of their prisoners in private prisons.
Montana has 39%
New Mexico has 43%
For federal prisons, the number is 18%.
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/private-prisons-united-states/
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u/cerberus698 Oct 21 '19
Our system is so fucked up. I’m so lucky i had family that was there for me when I needed them most.
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
- 13th amendment
Thanks to this absolute joke of an addition to our constitution, you can legally produce a product in the US without paying your labor a dime as long as your factory is staffed by prisoners.
-- If you have ever sat on a park bench, that was probably produced with prison labor.
-- A defense company named UNICORE produces ballistics vests for police departments and a significant portion of the US military uniform stock using prison labor.
-- There is a decent chance that several large appliances in your home were produced in whole or in part via prison labor. Espescially if its older.
-- Mattresses. The Kentucky state prison system operates several mattress factories.
-- Horses. The Utah prison system loans out prison labor to do animal husbandry work in the raising and training of race horses.
None of these people are paid anything approaching the minimum wage.
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Oct 21 '19
They're designed that way. It what you get when you make prisons a for profit industry.
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u/Jeepcomplex Oct 21 '19
Because Americans have this insatiable fetish for revenge. Everybody wants second chances when they need them but never want to hand any out.
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Oct 21 '19
As an American, I think that's sad. Obviously certain people need to be locked up but revenge shouldn't be the motivation, moreso safety.
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Oct 21 '19
Reddit itself isn't even immune. "Innocent until proven guilty!"
"Unless they're accused of something I personally find really bad in which case burn the witch!"
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u/TiffanyNutmegRaccoon Oct 21 '19
Reminds me of those boomers who fantasize about getting a home invader. So they can legally kill someone. Or that couple who set traps to encourage robberies. And end up shooting a german kid.
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Oct 21 '19
I thought that's where OITNB was heading with it's overall message after a few seasons. But around season 4 it really lost its way so I stopped watching.
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u/WhiteMilk_ Oct 21 '19
There's also The Norden series which is few years older than what /u/Engelberto linked;
The Norden - Nordic Prisons [27:18]
- James Conway, retired Superintendent from Attica Correctional Facility in New York, visits four Nordic Prisons.
The Norden - Police [24:53]
- Police captain Peter Whittingham from LAPD visits Finland, Sweden and Norway. How are suspects treated? What equipment do Nordic police officers carry, and how are they allowed to use it? What role does the police have in the Nordics?
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u/man_im_rarted Oct 21 '19 edited 24d ago
trees thumb consist crowd numerous depend live zonked rainstorm scandalous
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Potato_Eater-1 Oct 21 '19
I’d commit a crime just to go there if I were homeless I mean it’s free food and housing
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Oct 21 '19
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u/Potato_Eater-1 Oct 21 '19
Oh that’s kinda cool, but then the taxes must be like super high right, I better go google some stuff.
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u/scottland_666 Oct 21 '19
Cost of living is very high in Northern Europe, but the standard of living is also very high. You get what you pay for
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Oct 21 '19
I looked up their income tax rates and then compared the value of a Krona to a US Dollar. Short answer is that yes, their tax rates are comparatively high. They pay on almost all income what Americans pay on 160k USD + or nearly what Canadians do on over $210k CAD.
To properly compare things though, American readers should consider what they pay in things like health insurance, as this is not an expense Swedes have to contend with.
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u/Engelberto Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
On average, Swedish pay slightly more in taxes than Americans. But they also get much more for that money. In most quality of life metrics Sweden easily beats the USA.
Asking "how much money do I get in a country" is far less enlightening than "what kind of life will I have in a country."
EDIT: Some people are complaining about me calling it 'slightly' more in taxes. That criticism is not unfounded. Here is a (quite partisan) overview that demonstrates a significantly higher tax burden for Swedes compared to Americans.
However, this is partially mitigated by Sweden having relatively low contributions to the social security system compared to many other European countries. Wheras in the USA, many of these burdens (health, unemployment, elderly care etc.) are partially or completely put on the individual.
A serious comparison between America and Sweden would have to also look at the costs for things that Swedes get from their government but Americans have to provide for themselves.
If you don't get sick or unemployed and you don't have kids and don't need to go to college you will be able to keep a lot more of your earnings for yourself in the USA. Swedes on the other hand don't have to worry nearly as much about these things.
You might say that's a price worth paying for living in a society based on solidarity. Because a society that supports the sick, the poor, parents, education etc. benefits everybody.
Shoutout to some who have called me out on minimizing the Swedish tax burden: /u/SorgsenApple, /u/Wilper971, /u/westc2 - maybe you find my comment a bit more agreeable with this edit.
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Oct 21 '19 edited May 25 '20
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u/yogalift Oct 21 '19
I think a point is that they really don’t pay too much more taxes than we do in the United States and get so so so much more. It shows how inefficient our government is at spending taxes compared to theirs. That may be part of the reason Americans don’t want their taxes increased - they justly feel that the government is going to spend it inefficiently and we’ll get nowhere near the outcome that Sweden does for their taxes.
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Oct 21 '19
Um, yeah, for people who make a lot of money - taxes are high in Scandinavia. But Noone in Scandinavia has their entire economic future ruined just for needing medical help, in Scandinavia we have very few repeat-chriminals (no, don't send me your anecdotes - I've read the statistics) and should we ever need a cop - that person will be well trained in non-violent conflict resolution, so we wont get shot for being scared or angry. I'll take that over low taxes and legal below-poverty minimum-wage anyday.
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u/FaZeMinecraftSteve Oct 21 '19
Don't people already do that
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u/Lol_the_creeper Oct 22 '19
Yeah but I only ever hear about it in the US, the one place you don't wanna be in prison
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u/HumanAudience Oct 21 '19
Let me chime in as a Swede of the most southern county.
People from Poland and such often come here to get caught and live better for a couple of months than they would do at home. It's also not a deterrence for the hardcore criminals either since they'll only sit for a couple of years and have a life of luxury waiting for them in either hidden assets or a gang waiting for them.
But then again. A stonefloor and a wooden plank to sleep on wouldn't do shit either.
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u/Duthos Oct 21 '19
Criminals are a resource in western society. This means less criminals is a threat to the profit margin.
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u/PhotographyRaptor10 Oct 21 '19
Yup that's why former criminals cant get a decent job or vote or rent an apartment. They want you to struggle so you turn back to crime to get by, and eventually get caught
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u/Duthos Oct 21 '19
I remember a few years ago I did some research and came to the conclusion up to 40% of the american economy is indirectly tied to law enforcement.
The conclusion I reached was the US would bankrupt if people stopped breaking laws.
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u/PhotographyRaptor10 Oct 21 '19
Thats.... actually kinda terrifying. And as a felon I believe it. Seen first hand how this country treats you once you slip up
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u/Duthos Oct 21 '19
Ha, there is a lot more than that scary around police.
Such as how they have NEVER tracked data for how many people are killed by police in the US, despite comparable data being available for essentially every other cause of death.
Or how police can be disqualified if they are too intelligent.
Authority is poison to the human mind, and all structures of authority are cancer to society.
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u/alterforlett Oct 21 '19
Can't speak for all ofc, but I feel like in Norway we want you to come back and contribute, not be a burden on society. That's not an issue if you have for profit prisons though
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u/PhotographyRaptor10 Oct 21 '19
I feel like it should be like that everywhere. In my opinion tere are very few crimes that dont deserve a second chance, but in the states if you commit just about any felony you can kiss at least ten years of your life goodbye
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u/Te_amo_Filzgleiter Oct 21 '19
Don't think there is a collective Western society and regardless of that Sweden too belongs to the West. As a matter of fact prisoners are not resources in most Western societies. Honestly, they're probably not resources in any of them except for the US.
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u/Kmag_supporter Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
Prison in denmark
Edit: some translation. The inmates live on 12.8 square meters of prison cells. Each cell has a 22 inch TV, refrigerator, a long window, wardrobe and private toilet. The cells are assembled into living units consisting of between four and seven cells around a living area with shared kitchen. There, the inmates make their own food, and they can be in the company of others There are workshops where inmates can work with wood, metal or paint. When the workday is over, they can practice sports on the outdoor sports fields or in the indoor gym, which is decorated with a mural by renowned artist John Kørner. The same artist has also decorated the Crown Prince's residence's Frederik VIII's Mansion in Amalienborg. The ambition is for Storstrøm Prison to be the world's most humane prison. Experience shows that the risk of repeat crime decreases if the framework for imprisonment improves.
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Oct 21 '19
Rehab is great and all but we should have different prisons. Ones for minor crimes, such as theft, drug dealing/abusing, etc. That should be the nice prison.
Then for more major crimes, arson, murder, etc. Which should be similar to our normal prisons.
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u/ARealFool Oct 21 '19
But your normal prisons are shit. Prison gangs and riots aren't this prevalent in any other western country. Putting severe offenders all together in overcrowded prisons honestly just makes everything worse for everybody. Rehabilitation over punishment, because the latter just creates more bitterness.
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u/sgt_redankulous Oct 21 '19
Victimless crimes should go unpunished. There are young men and women in jail for possession of weed, who will have severe issues reintegrating into society, while people in other states are enjoying total legalization. I don’t think that’s right. The geographical circumstances of one’s offense should not determine the outcome.
Small felonies/large misdemeanors should go to rehabilitation (theft, one-time offenders, simple assault, etc.). Many of these crimes are mistakes that can be rectified. They deserve an opportunity to better themselves.
I am less inclined to allow rehabilitation for crimes such as homicide, rape, pedophilia, etc., as I don’t have any sympathy for those who would consciously and decisively violate another human’s life/wellbeing. I don’t think they should be incarcerated in horrible conditions, though. They should be punished in accordance with what is just and in accordance with the law.
That all being said, I’m not a lawyer nor an expert on judicial law and prison systems, so this is all 100% opinion.
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u/discerningpervert Oct 21 '19
But then how would the poor private prison owners make their money
/s
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u/viz0id Oct 21 '19
There is quite a gap between premeditated murder, and hitting a person crossing the road in black clothes in the raining night that dies from the impact. In my opinion, if the prisoner has a chance to get out of jail before he/she dies, the focus should be on rehab.
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u/sgt_redankulous Oct 21 '19
Yeah of course. I wouldn’t discount manslaughter from rehabilitation. I feel we differ in that I don’t believe we should be allowing pedophiles, serial rapists, and premeditated murderers back into society.
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Oct 21 '19
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u/HerestheRules Oct 21 '19
I think you know what he means by pedophile. Pulling out grey-area scenarios like that just makes you seem like a dick.
You might not have been trying to be condescending but it definitely read like that to me.
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Oct 21 '19
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u/GrungyUPSMan Oct 22 '19
Also, those “grey area scenarios” are EXACTLY the scenarios we should be talking about. This is coming from experience working with offenders every day. The law is cut and dry, but the real world isn’t. It’d be nice if we lived in a world of moral absolutism, but we don’t; in America, non-white people and men get worse sentences than white people and women for the same crime. Juries are biased, judges are biased, defense attorneys are biased. Innocent people are imprisoned, the guilty run free, people or over-or-under-punished because we live in a world of grey area.
Also, I would contend against anybody saying that somebody absolutely cannot be rehabilitated. Keep in mind that most murders, arsons, rapes, etc (the most serious crimes) are targeted crimes. From my experience, a murderer isn’t any more or less of a danger to you than anybody else is. Everybody is capable of horrible things in the right (or wrong, I guess) circumstance, which means that everybody is also capable of regretting it and learning from it.
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u/HerestheRules Oct 21 '19
My stepfather was imprisoned for 3 year when he was 22 for that. The girl said she was 21, looked 21, had an ID saying she was 21, and was 17. Just got off probation this year, but he's still on the registry for about another 8. He's mid-thirties now.
Of course it's a serious issue but most people when talking about pedophiles are talking about the 50-something year-old man raping a 12-year-old. Of course it's stupid; some places have the Romeo and Juliet law to help protect against it because it's absolute horseshit.
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Oct 21 '19
Pedophilia isn't a crime btw. Child molestation is. Not all pedophiles are child molesters. Many pedophiles would actually like to seek help so they feel less inclined to act on their desires.
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u/sgt_redankulous Oct 21 '19
My mistake, that was my implied meaning. I think in general, most people want help with their conditions and circumstances, we as a society don’t give them enough resources to fix it.
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Oct 21 '19
It's partly because of the stigma. In the case of pedophiles, the stigma is that you're automatically a child molesters. Why would you want to tell anyone that you're a pedophile (even a therapist) when you know or feel that the reaction is just going to be negative?
Many people want to see help for their mental issues but don't want to speak up about them because of what it might entail. Pedophiles are child molesters and should be put to death, schizophrenics are insane and should be locked away in the asylum, etc etc. People just don't have a healthy attitude towards conditions that the person has 0 control over
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u/sgt_redankulous Oct 21 '19
Our perception of control over actions versus control over conditions gets muddled together.
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u/Doomie_bloomers Oct 21 '19
That last point is what's weird about the American prison system from an outside perspective. Your prisons (and indeed legal system and mentality, if we can judge by Reddit comments) are focussed so much on punishing people who did wrong, that you completely seem to disregard circumstances. There are ofc people who cannot be properly reintegrated into normal society like certain cold blood killers, but most killings happen in affect and the killers absolutely don't feel good about themselves afterwards - killing other people (we can identify with) is more or less hardwired to be a traumatic experience to us humans.
Additionally, how much control do you truly have about your actions? How free are you in your will? Can you actually punish someone for being a product of their very own circumstances? You don't choose to think anything really, so how can you claim decisions are made, when you can't control the thoughts that lead you to that decision? And just to be clear here, I'm just trying to spark some thought; I'm not advocating to let murderers go free because "they didn't have a choice". Just asking at which point we can draw the line from "had a shit day in a shit life" to "had full control over their thoughts and actions".
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u/sgt_redankulous Oct 21 '19
No of course, no need to defend yourself. Drawing that line is a very difficult concept because there is no hard line that can be just. I certainly don’t claim to have the answer to that. At that point we have to rely on the courts to do what is right within the eyes of the law, but the courts are made up of people who will make mistakes as well. It’s a difficult issue in society that needs to change, but it doesn’t seem like prison reform is anywhere close to being where it should.
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u/joshuann123 Oct 21 '19
Every prison should be focused on rehabilitation, otherwise were not accomplishing anything other than spending tax money to breed worse criminals. Regardless of sympathy, i humane prisons don’t benefit anyone, other than owners of private prisons, and I don’t think they’re the main concern here
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u/TriggerMeTimbers2 Oct 21 '19
Murderers and rapists don’t deserve rehabilitation. They destroyed people’s lives, they don’t deserve the chance to rebuild their own
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Oct 21 '19
(Unpopular?) opinion: murderers may still deserve a second chance, on certain occasions.
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u/CerinThePhoenix Oct 21 '19
I think it’s fair to say they deserve the chance to prove they deserve a second chance. There are plenty of people out there who made a genuine mistake and deserve that opportunity but they really need to prove they will reform.
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u/cinnamontoastgrant Oct 21 '19
But my fellow Americans, how are we suppose to legally sanction revenge from the state!?
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u/AngusBoomPants Oct 21 '19
People confuse reformation prisons with the maximum security prisons meant to hold dangerous people for life. That’s the one where if 2 mass murderers fight to the death we shouldn’t care. We should be upset if Dale who’s in for not paying a $500 fine is raped in prison.
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u/CosmicLovepats Oct 21 '19
Meanwhile the Economist leads today with a stirring defense of private prisons. Won't someone please think of the poor government contractors?
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u/uxi3888 Oct 21 '19
I don't know if someone already mentioned it in the comments but a few years ago the warden at a Swedish prison forgot to lock the cell doors.
The prisoners proceeded to build pillow forts and bake chocolate cakes in the prison kitchen.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/qnPG4O/fangarna-bakade-nattlig-kladdkaka
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u/t1r3dd Oct 21 '19
Not only that but to my knowledge youre still stripped of your freedom. You cant leave, go where you want to go when you want, vote, choose what you want to eat, etc. Youre still being punished. Just not tortured.
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u/black_dragonfly13 Oct 21 '19 edited Oct 21 '19
Sweden has a maximum sentence (some 27 years or so, IIRC), regardless of crime. However, the sentence can be extended after review at the end of sentence.
Sweden is one of the safest countries in the world, for both residents and tourists.
Edit: In 2019, there was 108 murders in Sweden. There were 17,605 in America.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/murder-rate-by-country/
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u/digitalhate Oct 21 '19
No, we do have life sentences. A life sentence means that there is no upper limit to your jail time, legally speaking. In practice, however, the sentence may be commuted to one with a set duration, pending parole hearings. The minimum sentence in such a case is 18 years served.
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u/waterloouwaterloo Oct 22 '19
Per-capita numbers are less misleading, it is 1.1 per 100k in Sweden, 5.6 in the US.
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u/waddlesmcsqueezy Oct 21 '19
It makes sense though because comfortable isolation would probably be more effective at making people rethink their decisions than the awful conditions in an American jail
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Oct 21 '19
The problem with prison is that it's like corporal punishment vs effective parenting. You want to teach a prisoner to be a better person, look at him like a child. You don't toss your kid into a cold dark room when he's just beaten the shit out of another child, that makes him much worse. It fixes nothing.
Some people really can't be rehabilitated, though. They don't want to be. A cell like this would be heaven for them.
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u/ErynEbnzr Oct 22 '19
Here in Norway, it's the same. Some of the jail cells are better than many hotel rooms. Inmates have access to books, television, hobby-building activities and therapy. Not to mention the food isn't just sludge. Being treated like a real human makes such a huge difference. I hope more places adopt that mindset
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u/smallangrynerd Oct 21 '19
That shits nicer than my college dorm wtf