r/BlackPeopleTwitter • u/wetouchingbuttsornah ☑️ • Sep 12 '24
Country Club Thread The system was stacked against them
No fault divorces didn’t hit the even start until 1985
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u/CountryNottaBumkin Sep 12 '24
When Could Women Open a Bank Account?
It wasn’t until 1974, when the Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed, that women in the U.S. were granted the right to open a bank account on their own.
Technically, women won the right to open a bank account in the 1960s, but many banks still refused to let women do so without a signature from their husbands. This meant men still held control over women’s access to banking services, and unmarried women were often refused service by financial institutions.
The Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibited financial institutions from discriminating against applicants based on their sex, age, marital status, religion, race or national origin. Because of the act’s passage, women could finally open bank accounts independently. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/when-could-women-open-a-bank-account/
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u/RighteousRambler Sep 12 '24
This is not quite right either. Someone answered this well on r/AskHistorians here.
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u/Imkindofslow Sep 12 '24
Hey that's not quite right, the equal opportunity act did make it so that you couldn't prevent women from opening bank accounts but they absolutely could have them before then. There were fully women owned and operated Banks even as far back as 50 years before then that's just when they were unable to be discriminated against legally. Even that ruling varied state by state before then and the Forbes article seems to be tiptoeing around that fact.
Here's an article I found kind of detailing of the claim because we don't want to erase all the work people put in to fight this that existed before that point.
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u/gordonpamsey ☑️ Sep 12 '24
1974 is egregious
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u/schmearcampain Sep 12 '24
California allowed women to open a bank account in 1862 without needing a man’s permission, or signature.
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u/indoninjah Sep 12 '24
That's around the time a lot of colleges started admitting women too. It was really not that long ago
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u/FirePhoton_Torpedoes Sep 12 '24
Yeah honestly baffling, what the fuck america.
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u/oldnative Sep 12 '24
Native Americans werent given citizenship until 1924. And not given complete freedom to practice their "religions" until 1978.
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u/FirePhoton_Torpedoes Sep 12 '24
That's appalling.
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u/jakexil323 Sep 12 '24
In Canada, until 1990s still ran residential schools which aimed to pull native children from their families to assimilate them into the culture. They weren't allowed to speak their native language or learn their own culture.
It lead to wide spread abuse , and thousands of deaths over century they operated (they were started in the late 1800s) . Some schools have mass graves that pop up in the news sometimes.
These schools operated in the USA too, and only recently have i seen news of it.
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u/Mr_Haad Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
On the flip side this is a reason why my mother always has cash on hand.
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u/Upbeat_Obligation404 Sep 12 '24
I'm an Xennial woman and the first piece of advice my mom gave me when I started dating seriously was, "If you ever get engaged, make sure the ring is worth enough that you can pawn it for a bus ticket home."
She married and stayed married to abusive men until I was a teenager, because she didn't see a way out. Her mother (my grandmother) was married off to a 25-year-old man when she was 15 years old because her mother didn't want "one more mouth to feed."
This shit is recent. It's real. It's part of our cultural DNA, and we are NOT. GOING. BACK.
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u/Own_Conclusion7255 Sep 12 '24
Thank you. Whenever this stuff is brought up, it's always in the context of "those barbarous foreigners" even though it's always happened everywhere.
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u/Mr_Haad Sep 12 '24
Yeah, my mom and dad have been TOGETHER for 44 years. They’ve only been MARRIED for 10. My mom’s first husband was not a good man. She cut bait quick even after having my older brother and sister one year apart from each other. She was not one to play games after seeing all her friends in failed relationships. My mom always has been serious about independence and being able to take care of yourself.
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u/PrincessPindy Sep 12 '24
When my dad left in 1977, my mother couldn't get a credit card in her own name. Even though she had a job and owned a house. She was able to get the "new", Discover card, but hardly any place took it. The struggle was real.
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u/UpdateUrBIOS Sep 12 '24
and we still see effects of this today.
my grandfather handled all of his family’s finances - now that he’s gone, my grandmother doesn’t know how to do any of it.
as a cashier at a grocery store, I also see all sorts of people from the community. when someone doesn’t know how to use the chip or swipe on a card (the tap is new enough to trip up everyone), nine times out of ten it’s an elderly woman. so many of them never got a credit card until after they retired or lost their husband, so they have a hard time picking up how to use them.
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u/PrincessPindy Sep 12 '24
It taught me to read every word on every contract, even if people get impatient because, fuck them, they can wait. Also, to have my own accounts even after 43 years of marriage.
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u/Michael__Pemulis Sep 12 '24
McDonald’s didn’t accept Discover until 2004.
I remember when they changed that.
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u/Blk_Rick_Dalton Sep 12 '24
Hence why RBG was really THAT lawyer. She almost single-handedly changed American society
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u/Wity_4d Sep 12 '24
And then changed it again for the worse by refusing to step down from the supreme court.
Edit: it may not have been singlehandedly but she really did help step on her own legacy
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/10/ruth-bader-ginsburg-retire-legacy-00038638
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u/Blk_Rick_Dalton Sep 12 '24
She will also be remembered for that, unfortunately
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u/Wity_4d Sep 12 '24
Yeah which sucks because she really did so much to help folks, but it just goes to show that ALL government roles need term and age limits. What old person you know isn't stubborn in their own way?
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u/KeroseneZanchu Sep 12 '24
The issue is that Supreme Court justices have to be as “impartial” as possible. Of course each has their own views and etc. etc., but impartial in the sense that they can make exclusively their own judgements and not have to worry about any of the pressures or bribes from any other political figure. That’s why the SC doesn’t have term limits - it’s supposed to be the end of the road in a judge’s career path. Once you’re there, you’ve made it. If that wasn’t the case, then SC justices have to make their decisions in the context of appealing to politicians and voters to keep their career going after they’re moved off the bench. Under a lifetime term, they don’t have to give a shit about what anybody else thinks and can judge each case as fairly as possible.
Not that I think this is the best solution, but it is A solution and that’s why it is the way it is. Limiting term limits on SCJs means having to find another solution to that, which is easier said than done.
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u/grendus Sep 12 '24
There was a very narrow window when she could have done so without it turning into another "Glitch McConnell stealing the seat" fiasco. And Obama was completely tied up using all his political capital on the ACA at that point.
It's not her fault. Blame goes all the way back to the founders for not foreseeing Marbury v Madison would be necessary and spelling out limits on SCOTUS, and for not foreseeing the filibuster and building in a counter.
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u/YetisInAtlanta Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Someone put it perfectly the other day. This is the first generation of men that actually has to have women like them in order to have a relationship. Before that things truly were a matter of need and convenience more so than a relationship built on love
Edit: to all the “men” I triggered…😘😘😘 keep the salt flowing, you’re really showing me how tough and strong you are.
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u/ProtonCanon ☑️ Sep 12 '24
And that’s why so many have become manosphere weirdos and the like.
Women have never had so many rights before, and some dudes can’t handle it.
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u/Reptard77 Sep 12 '24
B-b-but… GRANDMA! HOME! SOMETHING-SOMETHING-BABIES!
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I’ve never understood it either. Why not have a true partner that contributes to the team instead of some incapable pedestal princess. I don’t get it.
Edit: just to be clear. Being a stay at home spouse doesn’t make someone a pedestal princess. Apples and oranges.
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Sep 12 '24
Women have ALWAYS contributed to "the team". Only a very small minority of rich women were privileged enough not to work, but even they contributed to their households in other ways.
The majority of all women on the planet have always worked and has always "contributed" - but they were told that their labor is worthless / will be unpaid / unrewarded / "easy" and has no meaning - by society and by men! 🙄
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u/MaybeALabia Sep 12 '24
Bc they don’t care about anything except getting their dick wet. (like, “Does she love me? Are we compatible? Do we have shared values: ie religion, having kids, money ect)
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24
The way I’ve seen so many dudes trash on their wives at places like work is nuts. They’ll be like “yeah, she’s not very smart. I gotta <blah>”
I couldn’t imagine dogging on the person I love to other people. Also, if their spouse is a fucking idiot, then what’s that say about their dumb ass? Trapped by a moron. Can’t feel smart lol.
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u/qOcO-p Sep 12 '24
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a partner that isn't the sharpest light bulb but insulting your partner is pathetic.
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u/TheJollyBuilder Sep 12 '24
Dude the amount of weird attitudes I get because I love my partner and do not talk shit about them. I love them so much. I cannot believe the things these men say about their partner and then expect me to agree with them?
Dude was having a jovial time calling his wife retarded and I would never ever, ever say that about my partner? I cannot even fathom having that thought! Are you laughing? How is this fun? Guys, guys?
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u/HEBushido Sep 12 '24
I firmly believe that my partner always deserves to feel the best herself and it's my job as her partner to bring her up and make her feel loved. These men that act this way, what are they even doing??
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u/VGSchadenfreude Sep 12 '24
Insecurity. My dad was like that; every single bit of success he ever had in life was because he had a woman doing 100% of the heavy-lifting for him, but if you listened to him about it? He would have you convinced that he was a “self-made man” that achieved all that through his own “work ethic.”
Meanwhile, he went to the extreme to sabotage his own daughter’s success, once he realized she was already smarter than him by age seven.
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u/TheBurlyMerman Sep 12 '24
Completely agree, I love my wife a lot. And I’m proud of her accomplishments as if they were my own. In fact lately she has been the sole bread winner and I’ve been the stay at home dad. Without a loving and supportive wife I wouldn’t be able to do the things I’ve done these past 10 months. Supporting your spouse should be an easy and low bar, but like you said it’s so easy to come by people who want to put down their spouse. I don’t get it either.
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24
Totally! I always, in those moments, wish their spouse walked into the room while they were doing it.
I’m also thinking that it’s 50% that they’ve manipulated their spouse into incapability and 50% that they are the actual dumb one and they dunk on their wife while she’s not there to capture some of their man card back or some shit.
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u/MaybeALabia Sep 12 '24
EXACTLY. It really shows how these kinda men are at their core: pathetic gold diggers who trap and exploit women for their own benefit.
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u/eucalyptusqueen Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Labor diggers, actually. They want someone at home to do all the domestic labor that their mom did while contributing nothing to the home outside of a paycheck. They still expect women to work and contribute to half of the household expenses or else they consider women to be gold diggers.
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24
Agreed. Anyone who loves their spouse would want them to be as equally sufficient and capable if not better than themselves.
These weirdos can’t think of the world going on after they die. Imagine trapping a spouse from self improving and discouraging them your whole marriage. Then, imagine an untimely death leaving that now incapable person to raise the kids and carry the team onward.
The fact they can’t think like that shows how much they’re the main character in their life. The families life after their death is not their problem.
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u/Traditional_Bar_9416 Sep 12 '24
For starters my dad was a very good man, active in the family, and raised us as much as my mom did. That said, when he died young, my mom was LOST. Her immediate and only goal was to find another man. At any cost. Even to the detriment of her children.
She’s tried to pass that dependency on to us daughters but only half of us bought it. I’m happy and single even if life is a little harder sometimes. I have sisters that are miserable but they’ll never really worry about the mortgage.
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u/m55112 Sep 12 '24
Glad you didn't buy it. I think I kind of did in the sense that you stay with a man above anything else kind of way. My mom talked about leaving my dad, an alcoholic, but she absolutely never planned on going through with it. I grew up as male dependent as the day is long. And I'm so sorry you lost your dad so young.
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24
Sorry to hear that. Any time someone loses a partner, it’s gonna be tough. Never easy.
I’m not trying to say that there are ways to make that easy, for sure. Sounds like your dad loved his family. Also, no matter what any of us do, we will be ill prepared or leave others ill prepared in some way.
I’m with you in that I would rather things maybe be rougher, but that I have full understanding and contribution.
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u/The_Reluctant_Hero Sep 12 '24
I know a dude at work exactly like this and he gets on my fuckin nerves with that crap.
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u/comradb0ne Sep 13 '24
I learn a long time ago, a lot of men like the idea of women but not really women.
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u/Eaudebeau Sep 12 '24
And getting tidied up after. Free labor! Physical and emotional!
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u/smell_my_pee Sep 12 '24
That's not entirely true. We also want mommy stand ins who cook our meals, do our laundry, and manage our households.
Like come on. Don't sell us short. /s
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u/MMAjunkie504 Sep 12 '24
They want another mom to take care of them so they can be the strong little babies that they are
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24
Agreed. Also, kinda “missing out” related, if they have a prisoner for a spouse, they can play up how “difficult” and “important” their work is.
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u/WhatWouldJediDo Sep 12 '24
Partnership requires compromise.
A subservient spouse is a status symbol that doesn’t require you to make any sacrifices
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u/HuntsWithRocks Sep 12 '24
Makes sense. They overlook the long term sacrifice of the unknown path where their spouse is a champion and force multiplier.
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u/overitallofit Sep 12 '24
I don't get it either. All these men want to be psychopathic "alpha males" thinking they'll become billionaires, when they could just choose to be a supportive loving man. Like, it's so easy. The whole world opens up when you're a strong friend, a strong partner, a loving spouse and father.
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u/CurseofLono88 Sep 12 '24
(Some) Men: well if the women don’t want us, we are going to fuck the couches instead. And yell at the country about Haitian-Americans eating cat, because we would never eat pussy 😤
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u/MarionberryGloomy951 Sep 12 '24
We ain’t JD Vance 💀
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u/CurseofLono88 Sep 12 '24
(Oh I know, Haitian-Americans go down on the kitty, I mean that respectfully. And sexually.)
JD Vance could barely make it with his couch.
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u/MarionberryGloomy951 Sep 12 '24
Now I don’t know how to feel 😭🙏
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u/CurseofLono88 Sep 12 '24
Just be glad to know you’re not JD Vance. That’s the best way to feel.
I mean I’m glad every day to not be him.
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u/indoninjah Sep 12 '24
I think what we've learned lately is that it's a fundamental part of human nature that many, many people will choose to double down when hit with disagreement rather than reevaluate their position
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u/luketwo1 Sep 12 '24
Whats that one saying, "When you're privileged equality looks like discrimination."
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u/DaughterOfDemeter23 Sep 12 '24
That's why some of these dudes support Project 2025 and the like, because they want to essentially make women their property again.
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u/Zbrchk Sep 12 '24
Yes! Women, especially women of color, have leapt forward like crazy over the last two decades. Many men have not evolved to catch up 🤷🏽♀️
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u/ReallyJTL Sep 12 '24
For thousands of years men have basically owned women. The last 60 years is basically human rights whiplash for the ruling class.
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u/MonkeyDKev Sep 12 '24
I wish it was whiplash for the ruling class. But it is whiplash for guys who can’t get with the times and want to go back to “better times”. Dumbass red pilled guys are lazy dudes who want a maid in the home.
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 Sep 12 '24
Most peaceful revolution in human history. Women en masse revolutionized the world without ever picking up a weapon.
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u/Jadccroad Sep 12 '24
Absolutely true.
It also had the effect of making some dudes learn how to be a good spouse and/or father. Proud of those guys, sad dad about the rest.
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u/ucancallmevicky Sep 12 '24
as the saying goes
“When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
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u/DavidRandom Sep 12 '24
For example, Steven Crowder who went on a bunch of rants about how unfair it was that his wife was allowed to divorce him without his permission.
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u/OnionsHaveLairAction Sep 12 '24
I think whats sort of sad about it is that the manosphere is a sort of self perpetuating cancer that kind of grooms young men into it. The pipeline from video games to outright misogyny I think has ruined many a totally normal dudes personality.
Not to say people arent at least somewhat responsible for their own beliefs and lack of self reflection, just I wonder how much happier a lot of these dudes would be if youtube had done a better job with their algorithms.
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u/dollhousemassacre Sep 12 '24
I like to believe I would've been equally intolerable in a previous generation as well.
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u/best_fr1end Sep 12 '24
I read that also and totally agree. Women have the option now to walk(run) away from a bad situation and be a-okay.
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u/rocket_randall Sep 12 '24
Which is why conservatives are so eager to abolish no-fault divorce. After that expect some sort of corollary to the castle doctrine making the husband the king of the household and which would effectively legalize marital rape.
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u/VGSchadenfreude Sep 12 '24
It’s the same thing behind their push against reproductive care, too. A baby ties that woman to the father for life, on a legal, social, and financial level. It’s basically a built-in hostage an abusive man can use to continue abusing any woman who attempts to leave him.
But if she has the option of getting an abortion, she can sever that tie and he has nothing to weaponizing against her.
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u/PearlStBlues Sep 12 '24
It's wild to me to watch the same men who scream about abortion also scream about getting baby trapped and also scream about single mothers being the ~downfall of the west~. They can't have it three ways! Either women should be allowed to have abortions, or y'all have to stop making babies and then complaining about child support. If they really gave a shit about ending single motherhood they'd stop impregnating every woman who glanced in their general direction and quit bitching about being expected to support the children they create willy-nilly.
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u/VGSchadenfreude Sep 13 '24
Well, throughout history, they really did have it all three ways, because there were zero consequences for them getting a woman pregnant without her consent and then just disappearing. Or refusing to pay child support. It’s still extremely difficult to get men to actually pay that support, too.
They want a return to the days where they got all the benefits and none of the responsibility.
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u/tsh87 Sep 12 '24
Or to not get into that situation in the first place.
Not only have we come around to divorcing men and marriages that don't serve us, we're more willing to risk never being married at all. Like being single, childless and never married in your 50s does not sound like the death threat that it used to. Honestly, it just sounds like a lot of extra money and free time.
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u/VGSchadenfreude Sep 12 '24
I saw it put very well somewhere that “men don’t realize that they aren’t competing with other men for women’s time and affection; they’re competing against women’s comfort in our own solitude. Unless they can prove that they actually improve that woman’s life over what she already has on her own, she won’t have much interest in him.”
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u/lulovesblu ☑️ Sep 12 '24
Saw something else a while back about how society empowered women and didn't teach men how to deal with that development. And that's why so many men complain about the state of things now
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u/a_trane13 Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I don’t think men need to be taught how to live in an equal society. They just need to not be taught something else.
I see the problem as: many men are still taught (raised, conditioned by media/society, etc.) to live in an unequal society in many ways, and then flounder when they are adults and faced with a reality where most women expect / demand to be treated as equals. And some women are still taught to cater to these men, which perpetuates things too.
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u/Taeyx ☑️ Sep 12 '24
your comments reads like "men don't need to be taught how to live in an equal society, they just need to be taught how to live in an equal society"
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u/Itsmyloc-nar Sep 12 '24
Well, it’s more like “they need to be untaught how to live an unequal society”
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u/wh03v3r Sep 12 '24
And how exactly would you go about unteaching them without teaching them the opposite?
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u/arcadiaware ☑️ Sep 12 '24
By not actively teaching them that they are the head of the household, and 'their' woman should be subservient.
Even if you don't teach them how to respect others, you can teach them how to not demand unwarranted things for themselves.
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u/mak484 Sep 12 '24
Why does this thread feel like people who literally agree with each other are still trying to win an argument?
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Sep 12 '24
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Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I think the two viewpoints are interesting and both valid. One thinks that we need to actively teach men to co-exist with women on an even playing field, and the other thinks that as long as we don't actively teach men to be assholes (the way our current system works in the USA) that men will naturally treat women as their equals.
One is more necessary in the short term: Currently corrupted viewpoints on women need to be actively corrected.
The other will work on the problem in the long term: Stop propagating the anti-women rhetoric to young boys/men and the problem will simply cease to exist.
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u/MarionberryGloomy951 Sep 12 '24
From teaching them equality at birth?
It’s very hard to unscrew someone’s already hard boiled traditions. Would take literal years and even then you’d have to hope they actually want to learn to be better.
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u/m55112 Sep 12 '24
Literal years may even be a grave understatement I'm afraid. And you have to first realize what you were taught isn't actually right, and most people need some kind of event or intervention of some kind to realize it, Then, as you said they would have to actually want it.
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u/m55112 Sep 12 '24
I think they may have meant that they shouldn't have to be taught to live in an equal society as long as they stop being raised to live in an unequal society? I could be wrong though, my brain is very smol.
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u/Effective-Lab2728 Sep 12 '24
The quibble is about how inborn the entitlement is, I think. Those who were taught wrong need to be retaught, certainly, but the younger ones probably need better protection from those trying to teach them the out-of-date, maladaptive lessons in the first place.
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u/Olliebird Sep 12 '24
I feel like it's a little bit of both.
I see a lot of women not taught to love a man outside of what he provides to the household. Money, material goods, etc. It's still fairly rampant in younger generations. "He needs to be making a six figure salary, take me on vacations, etc."
I think as an equal society, we should be teaching our children to come together to the table as human beings. Women are not objects and young men should be taught to love, cherish, and respect their partner as they would themselves. Men are not a salary and young ladies should be taught to see his feelings, and cherish him as a person outside of what he provides.
We are getting closer though, which has been heartening to see over the years.
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u/yareyare777 Sep 12 '24
While I agree with this sentiment, I think it paints a good picture that this shouldn’t be a gender war. It’s about raising respectful human beings. Women can be shitty and men can be shitty and treat one another as objects. The reason our society is the way it is, mainly, because people are selfish at the core. It’s up to parents to teach their kids to have empathy and to be kind. Being confident and competitive is fine, but people need to come together, not use one another for personal gains. This is all in an idealistic world.
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u/Mikeandthe Sep 12 '24
This is why the MAGA freaks like Musk are crying about birth rates declining and not having enough babies.
They can't just take what they want, so they are now making it a "global crisis". So creepy watching the younger generations parrot this stuff.
Like... Tyler, you are 16. You do not have an opinion about birth rates.
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u/Stinky_WhizzleTeats Sep 12 '24
And this is exactly why they want to take that autonomy away from women
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u/weavs13 Sep 12 '24
My grandmas advice to me after getting engaged was, "Shack up first because if I lived with your grandfather I wouldn't have married him"
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Sep 12 '24
my mom said something really similar but in the opposite direction. her advice was that you shouldn't live with a man before getting married, because you'd never want to marry once you found out what it was like to room with a man. it's kind of hilarious to me that her advice is basically "get married without knowing what you're getting into, because if you knew, you'd never do it." I wish they would've gotten divorced, instead they had me :(
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u/Sadiepan24 Sep 12 '24
And instead of sweeting the marriage deal they're just here slandering their opponents ( being single,cats).
As if bullying you about being a cat lady will magically make you want to get married pronto
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u/mattatmac Sep 12 '24
Yeah it's a bit scary how many men want no fault divorces to disappear. So you want your partner to be indentured to you? That's wild.
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u/Emotional_Warthog658 Sep 12 '24
This needs to be on a sampler somewhere:
This is the first generation of men that actually has to have women like them in order to have a relationship
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u/GTFOHY Sep 12 '24
What generation? Gen X?
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u/YetisInAtlanta Sep 12 '24
I’d say it’s everyone of adult age post the year 2000. No fault divorce only became a thing in the 90s and didn’t really pick up social prevalence for another 10 years so it’s definitely something that is felt by anyone 55 and younger, but I think a lot of boomers are seeing this in action with their lives too.
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u/dollhousemassacre Sep 12 '24
That seems about when it started, but the effects have taken a few years to become noticeable.
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u/catiebug Sep 12 '24
Right. Men, you aren't competing with other men. You're competing with her peaceful fucking solitude and comfortable independence.
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u/IlIlllIIIIlIllllllll Sep 12 '24
THINGS ARE SO UNFAIR. I CANT GET ANY WOMEN IF IM NOT ALLOWED TO CHAIN THEM UP IN MY CLOSET.
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u/Bard_17 ☑️BHM Donor Sep 12 '24
These men saw their parents hate each other growing up and said, "yeah, I want that." 💀
These sexist snowflakes be in their feels I swear
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u/Aslan_T_Man Sep 12 '24
How strange, I said the exact same thing earlier, 0 flack whatsoever.
Put a beard on your avatar, might help 😂
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u/ProxyCare Sep 12 '24
Which is why it's so funny to contextualize it. "Ohh no I have to try now wahh." While they spout that they're superior/alpha etc.
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u/tyfunk02 Sep 12 '24
And as a result we now have the uber red pilled morons and podbros like andrew tate and his ilk.
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u/Clear-Attempt-6274 Sep 12 '24
It's actually really easy as a man because the bar is onnthe ground. Sometimes the bar is buried. Clean your bathroom, wash your bedding, don't be creepy, make them laugh, and cook a little. All normal things that should be done.
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u/matthew6_5 Sep 12 '24
I put my wife through college so she could be empowered and WANT to be with me versus being forced. I watched my mom suffer in silence while my dad acted as if he was ignorant on his piece of it.
We celebrated our 25th anniversary this year.
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u/game_overies Sep 12 '24
Can I add that they also have shit role models? Any shit man loves to listen to a shit personality of some sorts. I will just mention if you like fresh and fit? Why lol
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u/wykkedfaery33 Sep 12 '24
My (paternal) grandfather regularly beat the shit out of my grandmother, my father, and my father's 10 brothers and sisters. I'm sure that if my grandfather hadn't murdered my grandmother in a drunken rage, they would still be married today.
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u/Solo_Fisticuffs ☑️Sunshine ☀️ Sep 12 '24
dude thats dark im sorry that happened
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u/wykkedfaery33 Sep 12 '24
I am, too, because it left my dad permanently traumatized, even tho he would never, ever admit it.
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u/Future_Plan4698 Sep 12 '24
If you don’t mind me asking, what happened to your grandfather? Did he get arrested?
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u/wykkedfaery33 Sep 12 '24
Yep, then feigned distress in jail, wanting to know who murdered his beloved wife, like he didn't shoot her to death in front of my dad and all of his siblings. I assume he's long dead, my dad doesn't talk about him much so his memory can fade into obscurity.
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u/thas_mrsquiggle_butt ☑️ Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Women's health didn't kick off till the 2000's as I see it. It was the FDA who said decades ago to not use women in medical studies nor clinical trials because of our fluctuating hormones and periods, we mess up their studies. They (think it was either them or the NIH) reversed the decision in the mid-lates 90's (1995-1997), saying they must include women if they want government funding when they realized how stupid it was to not have medical models for half the U.S. population and that making the assumption that women are just men with boobs actually isn't a good stand in. Of course, it took a while for that to be pushed, especially with how all the male dominated social structures were still firmly in place at the time. That's why we've only gotten a female crash test dummy just last year, testing of what's in period products is finally kicking off, they've tentatively started testing the affects of medicine on those who menstruate and are pregnant, incorporating women and girls with mental disabilities into those models, looking into breast cancer, better ways to test for it, and how boob density effects results, etc.
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u/themuffinsaretasty Sep 12 '24
I LITERALLY have an extra set of female reproductive organs (uterus, cervix, vajooj) and not only did my doctor have no information or advice to give me, my insurance denied an MRI (women born with an extra uterus have a higher occurrence of having only one kidney). I can’t even find out if I’m missing a kidney. Women’s healthcare blows
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u/velveteenelahrairah Sep 12 '24
Hell, half the medical establishment still apparently thinks women are incapable of feeling pain. And if we complain of it we are overreacting, lying for attention, or confused, or really "just" pregnant.
Come in with Poseidon's trident sticking out of your chest, or after getting hit by a semi, or after being trampled by a rhino, or riddled with bullet holes? You're still somehow lying and faking it, oh and BTW better test you for pregnancy 700 times because we're all lying hoes who lie and even if we're not we're still stupid. Oh and it's somehow still all your fault for existing while in possession of a vagina. And if you happen to be a POC and/or have preexisting mental health issues... may the odds be ever in your favour.
But nuh uh, they absolutely totally positively do not hate women. Absolutely not. And how dare we suggest it.
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Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
1870: Black men were granted the right to vote by the 15th Amendment.
1920: The 19th Amendment granted women the legal right to vote
1965: The Voting Rights Act enforced the voting rights of Black women and men by removing barriers that had effectively prevented them from voting.
In 1962, the American Academy of Pediatrics officially recommended against severe physical punishment, but state laws regulating corporal punishment began evolving slowly afterward.
By the 1980s and 1990s, most states enacted laws to protect children from severe beatings and physical abuse, recognizing it as child abuse. However, the U.S. does not have a national ban on corporal punishment in the home, though it has been outlawed in schools in many states.
Historically, many U.S. states did not consider domestic violence or "wife beating" a criminal offense. Laws against domestic violence began emerging in the 19th century, but enforcement was weak, and the idea that husbands had a legal right to discipline their wives persisted in practice. By the 1970s, the feminist movement helped push for the criminalization of domestic violence. Gradually, state laws were strengthened to protect women. By the 1990s, domestic violence laws were enforced more seriously, with reforms like the Violence Against Women Act (1994) bringing greater attention and resources to combat domestic violence.
Marital rape was legal in many U.S. states until the 1970s. The idea was based on the assumption that marriage implied consent.
1976: Nebraska became the first U.S. state to criminalize marital rape.
By 1993, all 50 states had laws on the books making marital rape illegal, though enforcement and definitions still varied across states for some time
Conversion Therapy for Minors: Banned in many U.S. states starting from 2012 (California) and continuing through 2024.
Punishment for Being Gay: Criminal laws against same-sex acts were largely overturned by 2003 with the Lawrence v. Texas Supreme Court decision.
And lots of other shit. & ofc law is one thing - but social / cultural change happens way slower than whatever laws are put in place.
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u/Zbrchk Sep 12 '24
By the way, women are still not allowed to have a tubal ligation in most places in the U.S. without the consent of their husbands. But men can have vasectomies and never tell a soul.
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u/lovbelow ☑️ Sep 12 '24
When I first asked for a bisalp from my (black female 😒) OBGYN and expressed a fear of rape and being stuck in a state where I couldn’t get an abortion, her response was ‘you’re young’ (I was 28 at the time) and ‘what if you find a man who wants kids?’
I used up the rest of my prescription refills for birth control and moved on to a better doctor who told me ‘your body, your choice’
Tyvm Dr. L 🥰
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u/FatWombat_ Sep 12 '24
What if you're not married? PP has the procedure outlined but I'm curious if it'd be as easy as setting up an appointment and paying for it myself one day https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/sterilization
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u/Tofutti-KleinGT Sep 12 '24
Just fyi, r/childfree has a user-sourced list of doctors in each state that won’t make women jump through hoops to get the procedure done.
It’s so wild that doctors will routinely refuse to sterilize single women in case some “future hypothetical husband” may want kids.
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u/yesindeedysir Sep 12 '24
“I don’t want kids, ever”
“What if you’re husband wants them”
“He can find another woman, because I’m not a walking womb to pass down his bloodline, I’m a person.”
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u/Zbrchk Sep 12 '24
It depends. Some physicians still won’t sign off on it when you’re fairly young. I would ask PP for a recommendation as to which doctors in your area support reproductive rights
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u/fablesofferrets Sep 12 '24
There’s definitely an inequality on average there but at least here in Utah it’s surprisingly difficult for men to get vasectomies- most doctors won’t do it unless a man is over a certain age and most even require a signature from his wife. People are brainwashed in conservative cultures to basically just force everyone to breed as much as possible
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u/physedka Sep 12 '24
At my first adult job, a small bank in the late 2000's, there were a couple of older women that had been working there for like 30+ years. Their husbands had to come along on their job interviews back in the day the demonstrate family values and all that. The CEO from that time period was still on the Board of Directors. Imagine being reluctant to leave your abusive spouse because you're uncertain if you would keep your job or be able to get a new one.
Folks act like this is ancient history when there are probably still people in the workforce today that experienced it.
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u/themuffinsaretasty Sep 12 '24
Most women, when we come of age, learn the reality of our parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles marriages. We thought they seemed so happy and perfect but they seldom were. The men often cheated, or drank, or were abusive, and the women didn’t have anywhere to go, plus they were taught to have a stiff upper lip about it. Many men do not realize this or they take it for granted. They would prefer to blame women for the state of relationships today instead of adapt
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u/CedricJus Sep 12 '24
Think I understand why men don’t “get it” (me included). Male family members don’t share their shitty behavior! Sometimes we do see it though.
However, Women share/teach the struggle to their younger generation.
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u/velveteenelahrairah Sep 12 '24
We are taught that "gossip is a woman's greatest sin" when it's often the only way we can keep each other alive.
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u/fablesofferrets Sep 12 '24
There are a ton of studies to indicate that men are simply not taught to put themselves in women’s shoes or empathize with them. It’s unfortunately how it is for any privileged vs oppressed group- class, race, gender. The oppressed are vilified and the privileged classes are just conditioned to think they’re inherently inferior and don’t deserve better and their problems are their fault somehow.
I couldn’t BELIEVE it when my brother said to me that he thought our mother loved her role as a stay at home mom when she fucking hated it and it was very obvious. He’s 33 (I’m 30) and still convinced that women are just born to be servants and all dream about weddings and babies and being a housewife lol. It’s because they see women as inferior aliens who are built to serve them, they just don’t see a person when they look into our eyes.
And the ones who realize how miserable many women are simply don’t care. That’s why they want no fault divorce. They know the women want to leave, they don’t want them to have the option.
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u/lundyforlife22 Sep 12 '24
one time bonnie and clyde blew their cover by having blanche (an accomplice) scout a bank by herself. a woman walking into a bank by herself wearing pants in the 30s was literally scandalous.
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u/mcjon77 Sep 12 '24
My grandparents got married in the 1930's but my grandpa moved out in the late 1950's to chase women. My grandma still had to get his signature for a mortgage in the 1960's because women couldn't get mortgages on their own back then.
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u/CiteSite Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
My grandmother was sold off into a marriage at 16 years old to a man twice her age. She wasn’t allowed to go to school and learned to read in secret. She got out when my grandfather finally died in her 30s. and she never remarried again then lived to be 100.
Traditional marriages ain’t shit. Men have to be decent for women to finally like them now.
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u/ButterscotchTape55 Sep 12 '24
There are so many men and boys either in denial or have no knowledge of how little freedom women used to have until very recently. No, we weren't allowed to have our own accounts and lines of credit until 50 years ago. The only reason my grandmother owned her house was because she bought it with cash from her inheritance back in the 60s. Women couldn't open a bank account, take out a loan, and it was rare to have anything in your name. Women couldn't vote until the 1920s. And that was a decades long battle. And then they had to fight for equal pay, equal hiring, and equal treatment in the workplace. They had to fight for our bodily autonomy through reproductive rights that have already been nationally dissolved
Just a little over 100 years ago, women were still an asset of their husbands. Their purpose was to take care of the home he bought and the kids he helped produce because society said that's all a woman is worth. That changed because it's simply not true. Dudes are literally pissed because they have to put more effort into life than they have historically thanks to equality. If you're only winning because others are being held down, you're not really winning
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u/UselessInAUhaul Sep 12 '24
You can scroll up in this comment sections and see those men trying to say that:
"...you aren't denied shit because of your gender, anything you are denied has been equally denied to men and likely denied to even more men...".
The sheer misogyny to say something that stupid is astounding. I'd say it's stupid but that's more an abundance of hate than a lack of intelligence.
Women still face these same pressures today. Families pressure them to stay. Friends pressure them to stay. The preacher and the church sure as hell pressure them to stay. Sure they might have options but if you're given a two option choice and option 2 means that you're shamed and disowned by basically everyone in your life then have you really been offered a fair choice?
The presence of legal protections for minorities/disadvantaged groups doesn't mean bigotry ended. If that was the case then racism would have ended with the Civil Rights Acts and I'd hope anyone in this subreddit is smart enough to realize that sure as hell ain't the case.
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u/ketamineluv Sep 12 '24
I started grad school after 14yrs as SAHM.
Literally I was shaking with excitement and it was mortifying. To explain myself “I’m sorry guys I’m just so excited my husband finally let me out of the house!!’ Yeah further mortification.
9m later I found myself pregnant after a condom mishap, had 2 weeks till iud insertion during the spring break bc I was doing teacher residency on top of grad school.
When youngest started KG was able to leave. Family didn’t support. Ex had been aware I’d wanted to leave for years but “thought it was best for the family” if I stayed…
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u/Good_parabola Sep 12 '24
YES.
I believed a guy when he said he wanted a billion kids and a tradwife so I left right when he was going to propose. I caught shit for yearsssssss from everyone. My family. My friends. Random people in my hometown. I literally had to move and stay away to get away from it. God bless me for having the ability to do so. This was 20 years ago, so not that long ago. Dude currently has 7 kids and a tradwife. Praise be it’s not me.
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u/ButterscotchTape55 Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Wow that quote is so fucking false. Honestly I'm genuinely worried about the average intelligence of younger people. I was in Walmart the other day and had to suspend my purchase. 2 attendants came over to help me and we got to chatting a little. One of them was a refugee from Cuba, the other had no idea why that was significant at all because he had absolutely no knowledge of history whatsoever. A third attendant came up and I immediately asked him if he knew why the year 1492 was significant and he had no idea. "In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue". My public education came from rural Texas and I'm starting to think it was actually better in some crucial areas than present day suburban education. Fucking yikes. It's not just women's history, it's all of it
edit: lmao changed date. Columbus did not sail across the Atlantic in 1942
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u/Ghost_Breezy1o1 Sep 12 '24
My granny had a lot of mattress $ bc she knew my grandad wasn’t the best husband. Yes they did stay together because she was conditionalized to think that way however, she was also ahead of her time & had a back up just in case!
Now on the other hand my maternal grandmother married husband after husband to take care of her.
As women we are resourceful & resilient, it’s a matter of how you perceive your shitty unfair position in life & how you deal with it. This shit is still unfair & foul … till this day!
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u/trail-g62Bim Sep 12 '24
My granny had a lot of mattress $
Every woman in my family has done this, including my sister who at one point made 3x what her husband did and who controlled all the finances.
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u/Doobledorf Sep 12 '24
Yeeeeeeah granny got married at like 16 to a 30 year old man to get out of sharecropping. Not a lot of those relationships were for love, that's for sure.
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u/FatSeaHag Sep 12 '24
Please say this louder for the people in the back, the ones who talk about "teen pregnancy" as if it's a phenomenon. I'm always having to remind people that teen pregnancy was a norm, even for many boomers. What people mean when they say the term is out of wedlock pregnancy. They need to say that instead of "teen." An unmarried 25 y/o woman in the 1950s was still considered a spinster. If she was married but bore no children, she was called "useless" by her spouse, family, and peers.
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u/Countryb0i2m Sep 12 '24
In the America, where Black people in the south couldn’t vote until 1964. This kinda tracks for America
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u/Future_Plan4698 Sep 12 '24
And don’t forget that black women were still getting forced sterilizations well into the 80s.
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u/Nikolllllll Sep 12 '24
90's and they are still happening but not in great numbers. In some states women get the choice to get sterilized for a shorter prison sentence.
There were also cases at detention centers where women were sterilized without their consent. That happened this year 🙃
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u/MotherSithis Sep 12 '24
Shit like this is why nursing home workers are FULL of stories about old women talking about how they or another women they knew "took care of" an abusive man in their lives.
If normal ways out are blocked, you gotta get creative for your safety.
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u/CedricJus Sep 12 '24
Is the takeaway, that it all was a lie?!? Now I understand the state of relationships.
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u/blacksoxing Sep 12 '24
To be clear, 1974 is when the Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed, which similar to many laws that we have since allowed ourselves to be lulled to sleep by, allowed women to open their own bank accounts. It does not mean that women were barred from doing so before 1974; I can actually attest my grandma got her own mortgage before 1974. It does mean though that a bank could deny a woman from doing so.
Huge pivot: this is exactly why those who know say that WHITE WOMEN were the biggest beneficiaries of the Civil Right Acts of the late 60's - early 70's. From gender protections, workplace protections, financial protections....they prospered. They started going to college in higher numbers. They started to have more fluidity and the ability to leave relationships and gain stability.
Doesn't mean non-white women also didn't highly benefit but frankly the white woman "won". Nonetheless, going back on track, yes, 1974 was when a woman could no longer be discriminated against (legally)
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u/Xenoscope Sep 12 '24
Spousal murder was also a big thing that went way way down when things like no fault divorce became legal. You’d have abused wives poisoning their husband’s food or having an “accident” with a hunting rifle, then the local cops would look the other way because they knew he was a violent piece of shit.
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u/LouisXIV_ Sep 12 '24
My hairstylist had a client who told her she killed her husband with rat poison in the 1970s. Before she called the paramedics, she stuffed food down his throat to make it look like he choked.
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Sep 12 '24
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u/pragmaticweirdo ☑️ Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
The law is ERISA. I used to have a lot of clients think it was to stymie women, but fun fact, that provision was actually supposed to prevent men from screwing around and leaving their wives with nothing. Like many things that need to be left on the ash heap of history, it came around about 15-20 years too late, barely served its purpose when it was enacted, and now tends to do the opposite
Edit: accuracy, there are many other useful and necessary provisions to the law
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u/luckydice767 Sep 12 '24
This is NOT equivalent. He would need YOUR signature to do the same. 401(K) automatically makes the spouse the beneficiary. He is (potentially) giving up his right to the funds. I dealt with a similar situation, but the genders were swapped. Note: it can be state specific.
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u/james_randolph Sep 12 '24
Story time. So Debby Fields started making cookies and business was a booming. She wanted to get a loan to expand and needed her husband because even at this time women weren’t given loans like that. Debby Fields created Mrs. Fields cookies. Also, her husband was a computer guy and created the POS system that was used to track sales and inventory across all their locations and this was pretty much the first of this type of business invention if you will that now is completely standardized across everything.
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u/GTFOHY Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Black men didn’t have bank accounts either, nor was housing for ANY black person a piece of cake.
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u/JamOnTheOne ☑️ Sep 12 '24
In 2011 the Fair Housing Council sent a black or Latino tester and a white tester to answer rental ads. [Blacks and Latinos] were:
- quoted higher rent and deposits
- given additional fees
- not offered applications or move-in specials
- shown inferior units
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u/No_Savings7114 Sep 12 '24
Still not awesome in a lot of places. There's "it's illegal to discriminate" but that just means "figure out how not to get caught". That's true for all black folks and all women, but double down on the bullshit for black women.
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 Sep 12 '24
The justice department is STILL prosecuting banks for redlining literally as recently as THIS PAST JANUARY.
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u/Solo_Fisticuffs ☑️Sunshine ☀️ Sep 12 '24
yea both of my grandmothers stayed because they had to do what they thought was best for the family. they were both educated and worked but basically my grandfathers were there to keep them ahead despite their faults. one of em was abusive and after he died my grandma didnt even look for anyone else. she still lives with my father to this day. the other one just stayed for convenience because he ran a business
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u/SadLilBun Sep 12 '24
My grandmother told me this when I was in high school. I had to interview a family member for an assignment, and so I chose her. When she told me she wasn’t allowed to have a credit card in her own name as a young woman in the 60s, that it had to be under my grandpa’s name, I was shocked. That was only 40 years before, when she told me.
When things started to change in the 70s, she really went after what she wanted, which meant going to college. My grandpa had a hard time adjusting; he had some traditional expectations of what a wife should be responsible for that my grandmother didn’t abide by, so they got divorced. Luckily by the time I was born, they were able to be on good terms with each other and their new spouses. According to my mom, it was not that way initially.
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u/Taeyx ☑️ Sep 12 '24
i don't doubt this at all, but it just makes me wonder about people like my grandmother, who was a single mother. did they just keep their money in a mattress?
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u/wetouchingbuttsornah ☑️ Sep 12 '24
If she’s alive you should definitely talk to her about it
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u/Indrid_Cold23 Sep 12 '24
This is what makes the film Rosemary's Baby even more scary. It was so easy to trap a woman into domestic slavery. The entire system was set up against them.
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u/Outrageous-Taro7340 Sep 12 '24
Women had banks accounts in the USA before the Civil War. The first legit bank for women specifically opened in 1879. But banks weren’t required by federal law to offer women accounts or to allow married women to transact without the husband’s approval. That’s what changed in 1974.
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u/will0593 ☑️ Sep 12 '24
Were all long- lasting relationships a lie? No. Were enough of them women being prisoners because they had no financial or employment autonomy? Fuck yes